Marcos Alonso

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, LAM09 said:

5 hours ago, Jason said:

Robertson is a solid player but let's not exaggerate things here...

He's one of the best FB's in the Prem. A "solid player" is doing him a disservice.

 

56 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Not many PL fullbacks better than Robertson tbf.

Says more about the lack of quality from the other sides at LB than anything else. 

[LAM09 6,752]

Says more about the lack of quality from the other sides at LB than anything else. 

That's arguable, but it still doesn't take away from that statement. He's the best LB in the league right now and among the top 3 FB's in the league.  

 

 

Your replies are making out we're talking about someone akin to Van Aanholt.

 

 

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

That's arguable, but it still doesn't take away from that statement. He's the best LB in the league right now and among the top 3 FB's in the league.  

Your replies are making out we're talking about someone akin to Van Aanholt.

Which other full back in the league is actually good? Hardly any other than Mendy. I'm not even sure why you seem to be taking offence over the original comment to begin with. You think Robertson is one of the best in the league, fine but he can't be one of the best around if he's not actually a solid player, is it? You're talking as if I've called Robertson shit or something. And if we are talking about someone like Van Aanholt, I'd say he's average or bad. 

[LAM09 6,752]

Which other full back in the league is actually good? Hardly any other than Mendy. I'm not even sure why you seem to be taking offence over the original comment to begin with. You think Robertson is one of the best in the league, fine but he can't be one of the best around if he's not actually a solid player, is it? You're talking as if I've called Robertson shit or something. And if we are talking about someone like Van Aanholt, I'd say he's average or bad. 

You could use that same thought progress across Europe. Very few FB's excel on both sides of the field.

The definition of a solid player to most, is someone that is reliable and will put in a shift, but offer nothing more. That's why my reply said what it did, yet you've now gone on a tangent to discredit him even more.

Each to their own

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

You could use that same thought progress across Europe. Very few FB's excel on both sides of the field.

The definition of a solid player to most, is someone that is reliable and will put in a shift, but offer nothing more. That's why my reply said what it did, yet you've now gone on a tangent to discredit him even more.

Each to their own

Semantics. 

[robsblubot 3,508]

3 hours ago, Vesper said:

Completely disagree. You once again are logically incoherent. You are conflating tactical setups with raw athletic performance. I don't care if Alonso attacks or not. He isnt even that good at that. What he also is though is too fucking slow (far slower than Roberto Carlos was or Marcelo is) and shit on defence to warrant starting for our team, no matter what tactical set up is played, unless we went to a back 3 with an additional two wingbacks, ie. Conteball. 

That isn't happening and every single one of my LB options would be an upgrade over Alonso. I am so sick of the twisted up versions of 'horses for courses' arguments about how bloody special the EPL is and that it is impossible to compare players in other leagues. It is simply not true

And yet you did the same thing when you said Alonso worked in conteball, which means he did work in a particular tactical setup. What I’m saying (not really an opinion but something I've learned) is that that’s all there is: roles within a tactical setup. And that formations are not that static: that when alonso is up the field we defend just like conteball, with 3 cbs (Luiz, Rudiger, and Azpi).

there are no guarantees when players come from diff teams in the same league, let alone from leagues in different countries. So many things can go wrong with adapting to country, club (esp if come from smaller club), people, laws, customs, and finally (again) tactical setup. Some of these players haven't had an education and struggle in different environments. So many examples like Cuadrado with us: good in Italy and simply unplayable in the pl. Diego Costa, who adapted to the club and league, but not the country (same with Luiz Suarez).

Now however you feel about this, like I said, he has just signed a new deal and will be our starter for the foreseeable future. Like it or not.

[Vesper 28,861]

36 minutes ago, Robguima said:

And yet you did the same thing when you said Alonso worked in conteball, which means he did work in a particular tactical setup. What I’m saying (not really an opinion but something I've learned) is that that’s all there is: roles within a tactical setup. And that formations are not that static: that when alonso is up the field we defend just like conteball, with 3 cbs (Luiz, Rudiger, and Azpi).

there are no guarantees when players come from diff teams in the same league, let alone from leagues in different countries. So many things can go wrong with adaptation to country, club (esp if come from smaller club), people, laws, customs, and finally (again) tactical setup. Some of these players haven't had an education and struggle in different environments. So many examples like Cuadrado with us: good in Italy and simply unplayable in the pl. Diego Costa, who adapted to the club and league, but not the country (same with Luiz Suarez).

Now however you feel about this, like I said, he has just signed a new deal and will be our starter for the foreseeable future. Like it or not.

I think he will be benched before the end of the season, I really do. As for tactical differences, a formational change to a back 3 is well beyond covering him up in a 4 3 3. In our 4 3 3 he cannot hide.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

9 hours ago, Jason said:

Robertson is a solid player but let's not exaggerate things here...

I think Robertson is the best leftback in the EPL. Maybe that doesn't compare him to the longevity of Cole but he's the real deal imo.

 

[communicate 2,703]

1 hour ago, kellzfresh said:

I think Robertson is the best leftback in the EPL. Maybe that doesn't compare him to the longevity of Cole but he's the real deal imo.

 

I like city benjamin mendy, powerful runner, excellet crosser

[kellzfresh 7,229]

3 minutes ago, communicate said:

I like city benjamin mendy, powerful runner, excellet crosser

Mendy is good too, but he is injury prone and Robertson is better at defending by far so that edges it for me

[El P. 1,354]

Alonso didn't "work" in Conte-ball. He only worked for people with really low expectations.

See, when you kick out one creative/attacking player, in favour of playing that 3-4-3 formation, you need to compensate THAT kind of creativity/ability somewhere else.

If you are really going to play 3-4-3 or 3-5-2, and put your faith into WB-s to do the attacking, you need A LOT FUCKIN MORE than Alonso ever delivered. We have had 3 CB-s and 2 destructive midfielders. Creativity was nowhere to be found. Alonso liked that because he is not good in defence. Also, we had Hazard and Costa to help him at the attack, both really good players.

He is average, good-ish player, and always has been like that. Some of us saw that before, but it was moo point telling people that because OMG LOOK AT THAT FK HE SCORED. Now, when we have higher expectations of our play, especially attacking play, we can see how average he is.

Conte chased Sandro for 2 straight summers for a reason...

[chelsea_4_eva 1,159]

Slowlonso.

[ja1 1,166]

4 hours ago, El P. said:

Alonso didn't "work" in Conte-ball. He only worked for people with really low expectations.

See, when you kick out one creative/attacking player, in favour of playing that 3-4-3 formation, you need to compensate THAT kind of creativity/ability somewhere else.

If you are really going to play 3-4-3 or 3-5-2, and put your faith into WB-s to do the attacking, you need A LOT FUCKIN MORE than Alonso ever delivered. We have had 3 CB-s and 2 destructive midfielders. Creativity was nowhere to be found. Alonso liked that because he is not good in defence. Also, we had Hazard and Costa to help him at the attack, both really good players.

He is average, good-ish player, and always has been like that. Some of us saw that before, but it was moo point telling people that because OMG LOOK AT THAT FK HE SCORED. Now, when we have higher expectations of our play, especially attacking play, we can see how average he is.

Conte chased Sandro for 2 straight summers for a reason...

I have to agree. He would still not be good enough at wingback and suffers from the same strengths and weaknesses we are all aware of. His performances wouldn’t change at wingback. What would change, and the reason he is more suited to wingback, is because, as I’ve said before, he does have a strength of positioning himself in the box for key moments in a match. Even if the rest of his game is horrible in a match he can do that and end up with a goal or assist. He can do this less as a normal full back. Under Conte he literally had a free role. Under Sarri if Azpi overlaps Alonso stays back outside the box. 

 

As much as I don’t rate the guy, as a wingback or full back, his record at wingback for combined g+a can’t be ignored. I personally think his goals output (his assist output tbh at wingback is poor, 2-3 assist per season under Conte) is boosted via free kicks and the fact the guy literally had no competition for two years. I do wonder if other players with a semblance of attacking threat would get similar g+a output if they played as a wingback  for two years, every single game. For instance Matt Doherty is matching Alonso-as-a-wingback numbers this season. Alas I’m kind of just wittering on...

 

tldr: imo Alonso is not good enough at wingback or full back. But being at wingback does suit what he’s good at more. 

[robsblubot 3,508]

12 hours ago, El P. said:

Alonso didn't "work" in Conte-ball. He only worked for people with really low expectations.

See, when you kick out one creative/attacking player, in favour of playing that 3-4-3 formation, you need to compensate THAT kind of creativity/ability somewhere else.

If you are really going to play 3-4-3 or 3-5-2, and put your faith into WB-s to do the attacking, you need A LOT FUCKIN MORE than Alonso ever delivered. We have had 3 CB-s and 2 destructive midfielders. Creativity was nowhere to be found. Alonso liked that because he is not good in defence. Also, we had Hazard and Costa to help him at the attack, both really good players.

He is average, good-ish player, and always has been like that. Some of us saw that before, but it was moo point telling people that because OMG LOOK AT THAT FK HE SCORED. Now, when we have higher expectations of our play, especially attacking play, we can see how average he is.

Conte chased Sandro for 2 straight summers for a reason...

Does that mean he’s not shit?!?! Yes !!! 

Unfortunately for Chelsea, hazard spins don’t count in the final score, only goals do. So, when you have a player, a mere left back, who won us several tough matches in a winning season, forgive me if I cannot take “he’s shit” comments very seriously.

Once again, different opinions and preferences are all part of the game, and the fun. As long as folks remember they are just that, opinions.

[El P. 1,354]

13 hours ago, Robguima said:

Does that mean he’s not shit?!?! Yes !!! 

Unfortunately for Chelsea, hazard spins don’t count in the final score, only goals do. So, when you have a player, a mere left back, who won us several tough matches in a winning season, forgive me if I cannot take “he’s shit” comments very seriously.

Once again, different opinions and preferences are all part of the game, and the fun. As long as folks remember they are just that, opinions.

I never said he was shit.

Yup, hundreds of opinions, but only one truth.  A lot of people have opinion - for example here in Croatia some thought that Rakitić is Modrić level player when they both contended for some award, and some people worldwide think that C.Ronaldo is better than Messi. Dejan Lovren think of himself as a top class defender, levelled with Sergio Ramos. They have every right to speak anything they want, expressing their opinions, and I of course have right to tell them, with arguments, that they are wrong. I am doing them a huge favour. It indeed IS fun.  

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Again, the board just showed how clueless they are when they extended Alonso contract from 3 to 5 years. 

[robsblubot 3,508]

6 hours ago, El P. said:

I never said he was shit.

Yup, hundreds of opinions, but only one truth.  A lot of people have opinion - for example here in Croatia some thought that Rakitić is Modrić level player when they both contended for some award, and some people worldwide think that C.Ronaldo is better than Messi. Dejan Lovren think of himself as a top class defender, levelled with Sergio Ramos. They have every right to speak anything they want, expressing their opinions, and I of course have right to tell them, with arguments, that they are wrong. I am doing them a huge favour. It indeed IS fun.  

heh did not say you did.  

many truths... at the very least each manager will have his own. And Lovren is definitely a top class defender and I wish him many many years at liverpool. 

It's all good. Just find it a bit silly to be slanting Alonso on every opportunity esp a guy who has made clear contributions in our league win. He has played better before though, so I'm not sure it's not something that can be fixed via adjustment, at least the defensive part: there shouldn't be a gap when Alonso goes to attack - that's basics. For ex, I see David Luiz sitting too deep at times, which would be unheard of some time ago.

Now, speaking of improvement over him is great, but because I don't think he's a "donkey" it is easier said than done.

[Vybzkartel 284]

4 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Again, the board just showed how clueless they are when they extended Alonso contract from 3 to 5 years. 

If we had a DoF they would not have extended a player with 3 years on his contract. This is why Abramovich needs to sell up, his decision making in the last 5-7 years has hindered us. Can you imagine if he had hired a proper DoF around 2013. We would be miles ahead of were we are right now. We would be in the Barca, Madrid Utd stage by now had we been run properly.