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9. Tammy Abraham


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6 hours ago, Mana said:

Are you pulling my leg? 😂😂

Give your head a wobble. Tammy earns more than everybody in this forum put together. His current wage is more than good enough to have a rich lifestyle.

If he wants to earn bigger bucks, go to United or PSG or Dortmund. I don’t want him earning 130k at Chelsea as he hasn’t earned it.

Just because he earns more than you and me, does not mean he should not try and get the best deal for himself. 

Get off your high horse and think about what you are saying. People like us switch jobs for a 20% raise, and no matter how good a company is, it is money that defines our decisions. 

What has CHO done to earn 120kpw this season? Emerson to earn his wages? Kepa? Michy? Obviously he has a right to demand atleast what these guys are earning if not more. 

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we need to sign Jesus Navas and we will have some holy squad

I thought he was sensational today, couldn't help but smile when he scored the opener. If he can carry this on and we get our new striker signing right we could wind up with our best pair of forw

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8 hours ago, Jason said:

16 goals on paper look a decent return but if you were to break that down, 7 of those goals came in 3 games earlier in the season - Sheffield United, Norwich and Wolves. Since then, he scored only 9 goals in 35 appearances and like it or not, that is not a great return, especially when he has been the no.1 striker for much of this season.

If Abraham is putting good overall performances but not scoring, I think people have been more forgivable but he isn't. He isn't scoring and his overall performances have dipped and not it's just one game, it's been several games at the very least. Arguably the worst of the lot is he can't do even the basics right. For example, he struggles to control the ball properly when it comes to him and it always seems like the ball is just bouncing all over him. His timing is off, his technique is off, his precision is off. Everything about him is off at the moment and his body language is not even great either.

Preaching patience with young players is understandable but they also gotta earn the patience, reward the patience or trust if you will. It can't be given just for the sake of it. Otherwise, we should be giving every young player opportunities just because they are young. Moreover, Abraham turns 23 in a couple of months - just 1 year younger than Werner by the way - and regardless of whether this is his first season with us, he's played football at a decent level for some time now (let's not forget that he had played in the Premier League with Swansea previously). So, I don't think it's unfair for people to expect a tad more consistency or better performances from Abraham.

Almost every striker goes through a dip.

Tammy's season can be divided in 3 parts - the excellent start, the good middle, the current fiasco. 

While Tammy was poor yesterday, whose performance was even "good". What did pulisic do of note? He looked gassed from the 1st minute. Hence our re-inforcements in terms of werner, ziyech and hopefully kai. 

Tammy also lacked any service of note yesterday, infact our whole forward line did. We could not get the ball to them, and a lot of it stemmed from poor and slow passing out of the back from our defence and so called regista. 

Yesterday was a system failure, a team failure. As a team we were second to sheffield in spirit, second to them in tactics. To pin it all down on a striker and call him names (not you but a lot of people are), and moreover expecting to be sold, seriously?

Which team other than city has a world class 2nd striker? It's a league where the likes of pepe and lacazzete have looked ordinary for most of the season, yet we want our 22 year old striker to be loaned/sold? And for whom? Another batshuayi? Another kalou? Or Morata? Falcao? Pato? Demba ba? Remy? 

I mean the fanbase is so fickle, it's unbelievable. 

I think Tammy is a good striker and an able no.2. He has a lot to learn and improve. Anyways we look at it, it's been a good season for him.

As for top 4 and the gloom and doom, I think there's a lot of hope left. Who would have thought that we would beat city? Infact it's been the likes of Sheffield who have been our Achilles heel rather than Liverpool or city or arsenal or spurs.

Leicester have a tough 4 fixtures left. 

Let's keep the faith and cheer our boys.

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1 minute ago, Puliiszola said:

Almost every striker goes through a dip.

Tammy's season can be divided in 3 parts - the excellent start, the good middle, the current fiasco. 

While Tammy was poor yesterday, whose performance was even "good". What did pulisic do of note? He looked gassed from the 1st minute. Hence our re-inforcements in terms of werner, ziyech and hopefully kai. 

Tammy also lacked any service of note yesterday, infact our whole forward line did. We could not get the ball to them, and a lot of it stemmed from poor and slow passing out of the back from our defence and so called regista. 

Never mind a striker, every player goes through a dip but am not sure how that excuses a player from doing the basics right. I agree that the service to Abraham was not great yesterday but whenever he did get the ball, he never looked in total control of it and when there was a chance that came his way, he ended up losing his footing or all unbalanced to get a shot away.

Again, I agree that the whole team played crap yesterday but let's just focus on Abraham individually because using others to justify or back Abraham up is just a poor cover up excuse. And going back to the initial point I made, I wasn't talking specifically about yesterday's game but his overall performances, especially of late.

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13 minutes ago, Jason said:

Never mind a striker, every player goes through a dip but am not sure how that excuses a player from doing the basics right. I agree that the service to Abraham was not great yesterday but whenever he did get the ball, he never looked in total control of it and when there was a chance that came his way, he ended up losing his footing or all unbalanced to get a shot away.

Again, I agree that the whole team played crap yesterday but let's just focus on Abraham individually because using others to justify or back Abraham up is just a poor cover up excuse. And going back to the initial point I made, I wasn't talking specifically about yesterday's game but his overall performances, especially of late.

I totally accept that his performances have been poor. But let's not say that's been the case all season long. Against liverpool (super Cup) and United (4-0 first gw) losses, his overall play was quite good rather than his finishing. A lot of it has to do with confidence, and something which he will have to and he will learn with time.

It still does not mean we sell/loan him. If that is the case then we need to sell the following list of players from the squad:

Kepa

Reece

Ac

Zouma 

Rudiger

Alonso

Emerson

Jorginho

Barkley

Tammy 

Pedro

Willian.

I even read someone say that we need to sell kante (🤷)

Either we actually need to sell off more than half of our first team squad, or the fans are way off the mark. United were supposed to be so far off the mark. Yet one good signing has made even raahford look world class. That is what the signings are for. Increase the level of everyone around them. 

Unfortunately in modern football, you are only as good as your last performance. Hence the whole squad is shit. While just 2 weeks ago when we beat city, we were going to fight for the title. It's not surprising to be honest. But just frustrating reading such posts and comments. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

I totally accept that his performances have been poor. But let's not say that's been the case all season long. Against liverpool (super Cup) and United (4-0 first gw) losses, his overall play was quite good rather than his finishing. A lot of it has to do with confidence, and something which he will have to and he will learn with time.

That's the tricky thing here, no? Did Abraham perform well earlier this season because he is good and he is just having a dip in form? OR did he perform well earlier simply because he had one of those purple patches that every player has and his current performances are a reflection of his actual abilities as a player? The drop has been so stark that he can't even do the basics right. If you're struggling, you should always get back to basics. Do the simple things well and the rest will follow but he is not doing that and he is not helping himself or anyone with his bad body language.

11 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Either we actually need to sell off more than half of our first team squad, or the fans are way off the mark. United were supposed to be so far off the mark. Yet one good signing has made even raahford look world class. That is what the signings are for. Increase the level of everyone around them. 

I have not mentioned anything about selling or loaning Abraham like others have but personally, I am yet to be convinced. Abraham simply needs to prove that he can play at the highest level.

And on Rashford, think that he has that WC in him. The one new signing didn't change anything. 

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1 hour ago, Jason said:

That's the tricky thing here, no? Did Abraham perform well earlier this season because he is good and he is just having a dip in form? OR did he perform well earlier simply because he had one of those purple patches that every player has and his current performances are a reflection of his actual abilities as a player? The drop has been so stark that he can't even do the basics right. If you're struggling, you should always get back to basics. Do the simple things well and the rest will follow but he is not doing that and he is not helping himself or anyone with his bad body language.

I have not mentioned anything about selling or loaning Abraham like others have but personally, I am yet to be convinced. Abraham simply needs to prove that he can play at the highest level.

And on Rashford, think that he has that WC in him. The one new signing didn't change anything. 

On rashford, 

16/17 - 5 goals, 32 appearances,

17/18 - 7 goals, 35 appearances

18/19 - 10 goals, 33 appearances.

At times he looked a better version of Welbeck. But I think again, it's the recency bias.

Regarding, Tammy, I watched him last season with villa or with Swansea. No way do his current performances match to what his real play and potential is. There is something very weird going on with him, but anyone who has watched him for the past 3 seasons, would watch that he is a much better player than the way he has been performing recently. 

And the same can be said for Reece too. He has been dreadful, but no way just it tell us about how well he played at villa or his true potential. I mean this was the same player that kept Zaha in his pocket. 

Anyways, no matter which side you lean on (they are crap who got lucky, or they are good who are playing very poorly), we can't be a 100% sure. Hence my argument of patience. These are young players touted to have great futures by multiple pundits, coaches and our own manager and legend. So the least we can do is not judge them by a 10 game window. In a season where we lost the best PL player and we're unable to replace him, where the fanbase was pretty convinced that top 4 was not even a reality. So all we need is a little perspective. Rewind a year and see how bad things were to where we are now. We are punching above our weight with the squad and specially the injuries. 

 

 

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Let's remember Abraham is 22. He's been on loans to other teams for like 2-3 seasons.

Its very different to Billy gilmour and even CHO who only really had like 10 games last season.

Mount is a much better comparison by age and experience. Mount fucked up yesterday for the first goal. He's had a crazy dry patch for goals and assists this season. BUT the difference is we can see Mount's quality. He is our best presser by a country mile, he is improving his passing by coming deeper and since the restart we've seen him create chances by being direct with his dribbing and passing. We can see where he is and where he's likely to improve so we accept the bad with the good as he continues to learn.

Abraham at times has good finishing (still impressed by that left footed finish that didn't count against Leicester). But Ings scores goals like that, as do a few others in the PL that aren't good enough for a top 6 team. And that's Abraham's only quality. His movement is piss poor to the point Giroud (!) Out performed him in movement off the ball. He's rarely got control of his body, he doesn't seem to read what passes his team mates give, he's basically a poacher.

He has scored loads of goals but we do make a SHIT TON of chances. How many times am I gonna watch his throw himself at a pass across the six yard box to miss a tap in?

I think he'll improve as a goal scorer but he doesn't have enough tools to be a top striker. Darren Bent, Philips, Ings, Defoe, Craig Bellamy. All scored a good amount of goals every year. None good enough to play for the big boys.

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85 shots this season.

First in the league with big chances missed 22.

Also most offsides from top6 sides.

Apart from three games (round 3,4 and 5) very average goal scoring record.

16 goals look good on paper but I am sure Giroud and even Michy in his position would score even more.

 This season goal per minutes all comps:

Tammy - one goal every 175 minutes.

Michy goal per 109 minutes.

Giroud  goal per 169 minutes.

Giroud have by far best overall play.

Frank forced some of our youth this season but when he said he learned a lot after the last game he surely meant about Tammy among other things.

 

 

 

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On 12/07/2020 at 5:15 AM, Puliiszola said:

Just because he earns more than you and me, does not mean he should not try and get the best deal for himself. 

Get off your high horse and think about what you are saying. People like us switch jobs for a 20% raise, and no matter how good a company is, it is money that defines our decisions. 
 

If he wants to earn the best deal for himself, especially when it includes matching or better CHO’s salary, he should leave the club then. This is an act of primadonna and a mercenary behaviour.

And if you are going with what you’re saying, then yes Abraham should switch clubs to get the “20% raise”. If your statement just backfired on you, then yeah you need to think about what you’re saying next time LOL.

On 12/07/2020 at 5:15 AM, Puliiszola said:

What has CHO done to earn 120kpw this season? Emerson to earn his wages? Kepa? Michy? Obviously he has a right to demand atleast what these guys are earning if not more. 

I never said these deserved the wages they are having. But two wrongs don’t make a right, and certainly giving Abraham a new contract with a strong wage, isn’t a right. We need better players, not keeping average players.

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5 minutes ago, Mana said:

If he wants to earn the best deal for himself, especially when it includes matching or better CHO’s salary, he should leave the club then. This is an act of primadonna and a mercenary behaviour.

And if you are going with what you’re saying, then yes Abraham should switch clubs to get the “20% raise”. If your statement just backfired on you, then yeah you need to think about what you’re saying next time LOL.

I never said these deserved the wages they are having. But two wrongs don’t make a right, and certainly giving Abraham a new contract with a strong wage, isn’t a right. We need better players, not keeping average players.

Why should he leave the club if he wants a better deal? What kind of logic is that? 😂

Tell me how much JT or Frank were earning. The rumors of JT keaving for city. Were they mercenaries too? 

"And if you are going with what you’re saying, then yes Abraham should switch clubs to get the “20% raise”. If your statement just backfired on you, then yeah you need to think about what you’re saying next time LOL."

What? Well leave it, don't care 😂😂

"I never said these deserved the wages they are having. But two wrongs don’t make a right, and certainly giving Abraham a new contract with a strong wage, isn’t a right. We need better players, not keeping average players."

These average squad players who are scoring 16 goals in a season are what is saving us millioms of bucks and helping us go for grade A talents like ziyech, werner and Kai. But keep ranting and raving. Not like that is gonna change the club's or Lampard's stance. Lol

 

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Just now, Puliiszola said:

Why should he leave the club if he wants a better deal? What kind of logic is that? 😂

Because he hasn’t earned it? Have you been paying attention? 😂 That’s like me going to the boss and asking for a pay rise doing a halfass job.
Ok, nothing is stopping him from asking but I expect Chelsea to say no to his big wage demands.

Just now, Puliiszola said:

Tell me how much JT or Frank were earning. The rumors of JT keaving for city. Were they mercenaries too? 
 

You’re being stupid now if you are putting Abraham in the same bracket as JT and Lampard. Those two DESERVED their wage. Abraham since the turn of the year hasn’t, and instead of working harder to improve his game he’s asking for that sweet deal CHO got or better.

Just now, Puliiszola said:

"And if you are going with what you’re saying, then yes Abraham should switch clubs to get the “20% raise”. If your statement just backfired on you, then yeah you need to think about what you’re saying next time LOL."

What? Well leave it, don't care 😂😂

"I never said these deserved the wages they are having. But two wrongs don’t make a right, and certainly giving Abraham a new contract with a strong wage, isn’t a right. We need better players, not keeping average players."

These average squad players who are scoring 16 goals in a season are what is saving us millioms of bucks and helping us go for grade A talents like ziyech, werner and Kai. But keep ranting and raving. Not like that is gonna change the club's or Lampard's stance. Lol

 

Actually most of that Ziyech/Werner money is from our sale of Hazard to put it right. Yes thanks for their average service, but it’s time to be back at the top - get rid. Bats, Drinkwater, Willian, Alonso, Emerson, Christensen from the top of my head.

It’s too late for CHO, and we have to pray this guy is worth the money but this club should NOT make the same mistake with Abraham.  
 

Giroud is 10x the player Abraham is at the moment and we can live with Giroud as our 2nd choice.

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3 minutes ago, Mana said:

Because he hasn’t earned it? Have you been paying attention? 😂 That’s like me going to the boss and asking for a pay rise doing a halfass job.
Ok, nothing is stopping him from asking but I expect Chelsea to say no to his big wage demands.

You’re being stupid now if you are putting Abraham in the same bracket as JT and Lampard. Those two DESERVED their wage. Abraham since the turn of the year hasn’t, and instead of working harder to improve his game he’s asking for that sweet deal CHO got or better.

Actually most of that Ziyech/Werner money is from our sale of Hazard to put it right. Yes thanks for their average service, but it’s time to be back at the top - get rid. Bats, Drinkwater, Willian, Alonso, Emerson, Christensen from the top of my head.

It’s too late for CHO, and we have to pray this guy is worth the money but this club should NOT make the same mistake with Abraham.  
 

Giroud is 10x the player Abraham is at the moment and we can live with Giroud as our 2nd choice.

16 goals. 14 pl goals by a 22 year old striker. Lol. Yup sure he has not earned it.

 

No, I am putting the mercenary category on them, if you think that asking for more money is being a mercenary. Understand what is being said.

 

Hazard went for 100mil euros. 60 mil was already spent on pulisic. Where did the werner money come from? 90mil for havertz along with LB, GK, CB as expected. All of this is still hazard money?

No it's money saved by not buying a 30m back up to werner, saving 30 mil on like of Mount and Rlc, cho, James , tomori, Gilmour. That's where we are working so well.

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Just now, Puliiszola said:

16 goals. 14 pl goals by a 22 year old striker. Lol. Yup sure he has not earned it.

Yep he hasn’t. Abraham could be a one season wonder. 11 goals scored during his purple patch. Did Kane ask for a pay rise immediately after getting in the first team?

Just now, Puliiszola said:

No, I am putting the mercenary category on them, if you think that asking for more money is being a mercenary. Understand what is being said.

Eh no, asking just for more money is not a mercenary, that’s not being said here. This is about Abraham having the cheek, for his poor performances to ask for 130k or more, which sucks more money out of our club - which could lead to more performances like these.

As I said earlier I don’t mind if Abraham asked for a slight pay rise. Even if £100k I will swallow. But 130k or more? Feck out of here! We can use that money for things better. Improve first, then we will quickly renew your contract with a higher wage ASAP.

Just now, Puliiszola said:

Hazard went for 100mil euros. 60 mil was already spent on pulisic. Where did the werner money come from? 90mil for havertz along with LB, GK, CB as expected. All of this is still hazard money?

Slow down we haven’t got Havertz yet. It’s all rumours. We don’t know exactly how much money we have spent on Kai.

Also you do know Chelsea had money in the bank before the Hazard money right? (even though we suffered a major loss due to us being in the Europa League that year) We couldn’t buy anybody last season because of the ban. Don’t forget about our player loans plays a huge part of our income.

Just now, Puliiszola said:

No it's money saved by not buying a 30m back up to werner, saving 30 mil on like of Mount and Rlc, cho, James , tomori, Gilmour. That's where we are working so well.

Well CHO not so much now with that big wage of his (and it’s only going to get way bigger in his next renewal)
 

Look, IF we get top 4, I like to thank them for their service. The players you just listed I don’t have any huge problems with (bar CHO) regarding money at the very least. They are good enough as backups anyway. 

But these players becoming our main players will not help us compete with Liverpool and City. Even United next season. We need BETTER.
 

Gilmour, Tomori and maybe RLC I am willing to give them another chance in the starting XI for next season.

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10 minutes ago, Mana said:

Yep he hasn’t. Abraham could be a one season wonder. 11 goals scored during his purple patch. Did Kane ask for a pay rise immediately after getting in the first team?

Eh no, asking just for more money is not a mercenary, that’s not being said here. This is about Abraham having the cheek, for his poor performances to ask for 130k or more, which sucks more money out of our club - which could lead to more performances like these.

As I said earlier I don’t mind if Abraham asked for a slight pay rise. Even if £100k I will swallow. But 130k or more? Feck out of here! We can use that money for things better. Improve first, then we will quickly renew your contract with a higher wage ASAP.

Slow down we haven’t got Havertz yet. It’s all rumours. We don’t know exactly how much money we have spent on Kai.

Also you do know Chelsea had money in the bank before the Hazard money right? (even though we suffered a major loss due to us being in the Europa League that year) We couldn’t buy anybody last season because of the ban. Don’t forget about our player loans plays a huge part of our income.

Well CHO not so much now with that big wage of his (and it’s only going to get way bigger in his next renewal)
 

Look, IF we get top 4, I like to thank them for their service. The players you just listed I don’t have any huge problems with (bar CHO) regarding money at the very least. They are good enough as backups anyway. 

But these players becoming our main players will not help us compete with Liverpool and City. Even United next season. We need BETTER.
 

Gilmour, Tomori and maybe RLC I am willing to give them another chance in the starting XI for next season.

"Yep he hasn’t. Abraham could be a one season wonder. 11 goals scored during his purple patch. Did Kane ask for a pay rise immediately after getting in the first team?"

You do know that the club themselves are looking to lockdown the youth players to long contracts. For eg James, mount, tomori, rlc, cho. So I don't think Tammy woke up and said, "I want a raise or I won't play". There is a negotiation going on, in which he is demanding. 

 

"Slow down we haven’t got Havertz yet. It’s all rumours. We don’t know exactly how much money we have spent on Kai."

The fact that we are even been linked with kai should be fact that we are willing to spend. And it's way beyonf rumors now.

"Also you do know Chelsea had money in the bank before the Hazard money right? (even though we suffered a major loss due to us being in the Europa League that year) We couldn’t buy anybody last season because of the ban. Don’t forget about our player loans plays a huge part of our income."

Lol. Are you serious? Did you read our financials of 18/19? We incurred a 100m loss. https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/chelsea-financial-results-2018-19-revenue-loss-champions-league

So all this, "we have hazard" money is literally wishy washy talk. So no, i don't know if we have "money in the bank" because our financial statements certainly say that we don't. 

 

 

"Look, IF we get top 4, I like to thank them for their service. The players you just listed I don’t have any huge problems with (bar CHO) regarding money at the very least. They are good enough as backups anyway. 


But these players becoming our main players will not help us compete with Liverpool and City. Even United next season. We need BETTER.
 

Gilmour, Tomori and maybe RLC I am willing to give them another chance in the starting XI for next season."

Obviously these youth players won't be our main players overnight. Mount has already shown he is quality so he is an exception. Gilmour will be quality, but that is why we have kante and kova ahead of him. RLC was a mainstay before his ACL and so far his sub performances have been good. Tomori should be one of our 2 main CBs since the rest are so inconsistent and dare j say "poor". Reece I trust to be a good deputy to azpi but slowly and surely show his class. But look at how much money we woukd be saving not buying the likes of michy (Tammy), bakayoko (rlc), Drinkwater (Gilmour), pedro (CHO), Barkley (mount), zappacosta (James), rudiger/zouma (tomori) just by giving these kids a shot who have shown they are more than capable of taking the next step.

You are worried abour 30kpw extra for Tammy which is 1.5m per year. 10 years of dexent service from him would be paying him 15 million extra. Damn bro, batshuayi cost 35m. Get the difference of how much the club is saving with these good (but still acceptably inconsistent) youth players. 

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5 hours ago, Mana said:

Yep he hasn’t. Abraham could be a one season wonder. 11 goals scored during his purple patch. Did Kane ask for a pay rise immediately after getting in the first team?

He signed a new contract in August 2014 (before his break through) and signed another one month's later after his breakthrough.

So yes, he did.

5 hours ago, Mana said:

Well CHO not so much now with that big wage of his (and it’s only going to get way bigger in his next renewal)

Hopefully, because that will mean he's on the right trajectory and realising his potential.

4 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Accidental quote and can't remove it on my phone.

 

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All I know is he needs to up his overall game, he is becoming even more frustrating than Morata now. Still young and plenty time left but whether its here or somewhere like AV is up to him.

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1 minute ago, Jype said:

Tammy hasn't been good in 2020

Came across someone who mentioned this point somewhere and I thought it was good observation - a lot of our recent strikers have tended to go off the boil once the season hits January, after a good first half of the season. We saw it with Costa, Morata and now Abraham. It's almost like our strikers get cursed or something. 

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

Came across someone who mentioned this point somewhere and I thought it was good observation - a lot of our recent strikers have tended to go off the boil once the season hits January, after a good first half of the season. We saw it with Costa, Morata and now Abraham. It's almost like our strikers get cursed or something. 

Could be a problem with squad balance too. Tammy started almost every game in the first half of the season (Giroud started one league match while Batshuayi played the EFL Cup games) and once he got injured he never really recovered his form. That's partly on Lampard too because he failed to utilize Giroud early on. 

I'd say Mount suffered from being overplayed too, his form also turned bad around the same time as Abraham having played pretty much every minute of the season. For Mount the 3 month break came at a good time because it allowed him to finally get some rest and he's looked more like himself again after the hiatus but Tammy's form hasn't been the same.

If we look at Costa and Morata, they also didn't have reliable backups and had to play every game when fit. Remy was a good rotation option for Costa but he was always injured so Diego never got any rest and Michy was/is... Well we all know the answer to that.

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