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9. Tammy Abraham


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On 02/07/2020 at 8:11 AM, Tomo said:

@Mana @Jason

Instead of all this back and forth I've got a better idea which will also demonstrate just how much confidence and belief I have in him.

I personally think CHO will be a bonafide mainstay in our side (or another elite clubs side) by the time the season after next finishes aslong as he doesn't suffer another big injury or gets injured systematically.

If he stays healthy (is fit for selection in atleast 85% of games in the next two season's) and is still in a state of flux I'll donate £100 to forum, if I've got it right you do?

I agree that he will be a mainstay in the long run.
 

I was a bit annoyed that the club caved and gave him a lot as it does set a bar for others to pressure the club into these sort of demands (Tammy allegedly wanting close to that amount as well) but in the next 1-2 seasons, if hes fit and healthy, playing very regularly, he has an excellent chance of becoming a very very good player. As does Reece James, Mason Mount and Billy Gilmour. 
 

9 hours ago, Tomo said:

The comparison wasn't with Tammy it was with Callum and the point that if United had to give Greenwood "CHO wages" or face losing him they would do the former without thinking twice.

I think what United have had and probably will continue to have is that with their home grown youngsters, they have never really given into these guys agents who demand excessive wages. And even other than Pogba is it that frequently that these very talented young players leave United? I mean Ferguson let Pogba go on the principle that he believed his agent was trying to strong arm United to giving him a contract on bigger money than what Juventus offered IIRC. I dont think they've changed their mentality in regards to their academy. I mean I would hope we would follow suit, we are a massive club if you dont want to be here, then it is ultimately your loss.  I know United stand to lose Angel Gomes but again, it is very rare that they lose these guys because they integrate youth and have been for 25+ years.

Ok the scenario was slightly different but again, there was still a while before CHO resigned after Frank came in...

The examples with United in recent times:
- Rashford started out, got his foot in and played a lot over the 3 or 4 seasons before he got that huge bumper deal he is on now to reflect his status at United.

- Jesse Lingard again same idea, played regularly over a period then got a bigger deal as a reward.

- McTominay to a lesser extent, played over the course of a few seasons and they've given him an improved deal but nothing to the wages Rashford is on or Lingard if what I am reading is correct.

I think the likes of Mason Greenwood and Brendon Williams will follow the same path, I cannot see United being in a poor position like we were with Callum. Plus their playing regularly. I think if it wasn't so clear and was unlikely Eden would of left, I do think we wouldnt of been as desperate to give Callum that huge contract to get him to commit his future imo. Regardless of what he could become.


 

 

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we need to sign Jesus Navas and we will have some holy squad

I thought he was sensational today, couldn't help but smile when he scored the opener. If he can carry this on and we get our new striker signing right we could wind up with our best pair of forw

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More failing around like a toddler for West Ham's first goal. Doesn't read the flight of the ball, doesn't know how to move his feet without falling over.

It would be funny if he didn't play for us

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Just seen this post in the Shed End Forum below and sums up perfectly. I think people need to remember he has had a really good season and he will find his scoring touch again. The same people who wrote off Pulisic are now writing off Abraham.

"

Folk need to calm right down. Tammy is 22 years old for f**ksake. It’s his first year in our first team. He was on fire in the first half of the season and he’s badly out of form now. If anyone didn’t see this coming from a young striker they were kidding themselves on. This is some of the same people who were saying we should get rid of Giroud in January because he was finished and are now saying he’s the definitive number 1 striker.

 

He’s still young and has time to improve. Having said that, his new contract should be nowhere near the £170k that he’s rumoured to be looking for. 
 

This is what happens when we were all screaming play the kids for years. They’re not going to all come in to the team and perform for the full season. Their form will go up and down, that’s part and parcel of blooding them in to the team. Thankfully, I’m sure Frank and Jody in particular are fully aware of."

 

 

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2 hours ago, Stats said:

Just seen this post in the Shed End Forum below and sums up perfectly. I think people need to remember he has had a really good season and he will find his scoring touch again. The same people who wrote off Pulisic are now writing off Abraham.

Folk need to calm right down. Tammy is 22 years old for f**ksake. It’s his first year in our first team. He was on fire in the first half of the season and he’s badly out of form now. If anyone didn’t see this coming from a young striker they were kidding themselves on. This is some of the same people who were saying we should get rid of Giroud in January because he was finished and are now saying he’s the definitive number 1 striker.

He’s still young and has time to improve. Having said that, his new contract should be nowhere near the £170k that he’s rumoured to be looking for. 

This is what happens when we were all screaming play the kids for years. They’re not going to all come in to the team and perform for the full season. Their form will go up and down, that’s part and parcel of blooding them in to the team. Thankfully, I’m sure Frank and Jody in particular are fully aware of."

The sentiment is not wrong there but I think there is a difference between being patient and giving chances for the sake of it and being patient and giving chances because you know the player is gonna come good. Because if we are gonna catch Manchester City and Liverpool, then we need players like Abraham to step up and he turns 23 years old later this year. He is young but he is no longer young like Gilmour, who is only 19 and more leeway can be given. Abraham needs to start hitting some kind of consistency, especially when you consider this is his second season in the Premier League even though he's played in it with 2 different clubs and he is only 1 year younger than Werner by the way. Furthermore, with Giroud being a decent form since the restart and Werner coming in next season (there might be even Havertz), Abraham needs to step up and prove that he is worthy to be the No.1 striker. He may be doing that earlier this season but he certainly is showing any of that form right now. If a striker is not scoring goals, then he needs to find a way to affect the game in some other ways and again, Abraham is not doing any of it right now. And if we want to be critical, one could say that he has not reacted well to the Werner signing. Giroud has reacted decently by chipping in with some goals, and even Pulisic has reacted well too. Abraham needs to take his chances and prove his worth when given the play time. Otherwise, he is going to be the 2nd or 3rd choice next season.

Someone on the Shed End forum also dissected his league goals:

  • Aug - 4 goals (2 Norwich, 2 Sheffield)
  • Sep - 3 goals (3 Wolves)
  • Oct - 1 goal (1 Saints)
  • Nov - 2 goals (1 Watford, 1 Palace)
  • Dec - 2 goals (1 Villa, 1 Arsenal)
  • Jan - 1 goal (Burnley)

Scoring 7 goals in the first 5 games was a great return but since then, he has scored only 6 goals in 24 league games and that is not a great return for someone who wants to be No.1 striker and if we want to finish in the Top 4, never mind challenging for the title. I know he had some injury problems this season but that only really came into play around December and January, meaning he already didn't score consistently after the first 5 games. Was that early season form simply a case of a player hitting a random purple patch like all players do? I would like to be proven wrong but Abraham is not doing much at the moment to dispel that, especially with his overall performances.

On top of that, there is the situation with Abraham's contract. Is he actually committed to staying and improving at the club or does he care more about getting a big fat contract like CHO? If is the latter, then I am not sure I would want a player with that kind of mindset at the club, especially when he is not backing his own contract demands with his performances. If it is the former, then he needs to get his head down, work hard/smart, play well and the contract situation will take care of itself. He has only 2 years left on his contract and if he does not want to sign one and/or intends to drag this out, then is it worthy for Lampard to continue having him in his long-term plan? If Abraham does not want to sign a new contract, then we very likely need to sell him next summer. 

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8 hours ago, Jason said:

The sentiment is not wrong there but I think there is a difference between being patient and giving chances for the sake of it and being patient and giving chances because you know the player is gonna come good. Because if we are gonna catch Manchester City and Liverpool, then we need players like Abraham to step up and he turns 23 years old later this year. He is young but he is no longer young like Gilmour, who is only 19 and more leeway can be given. Abraham needs to start hitting some kind of consistency, especially when you consider this is his second season in the Premier League even though he's played in it with 2 different clubs and he is only 1 year younger than Werner by the way. Furthermore, with Giroud being a decent form since the restart and Werner coming in next season (there might be even Havertz), Abraham needs to step up and prove that he is worthy to be the No.1 striker. He may be doing that earlier this season but he certainly is showing any of that form right now. If a striker is not scoring goals, then he needs to find a way to affect the game in some other ways and again, Abraham is not doing any of it right now. And if we want to be critical, one could say that he has not reacted well to the Werner signing. Giroud has reacted decently by chipping in with some goals, and even Pulisic has reacted well too. Abraham needs to take his chances and prove his worth when given the play time. Otherwise, he is going to be the 2nd or 3rd choice next season.

Someone on the Shed End forum also dissected his league goals:

Scoring 7 goals in the first 5 games was a great return but since then, he has scored only 6 goals in 24 league games and that is not a great return for someone who wants to be No.1 striker and if we want to finish in the Top 4, never mind challenging for the title. I know he had some injury problems this season but that only really came into play around December and January, meaning he already didn't score consistently after the first 5 games. Was that early season form simply a case of a player hitting a random purple patch like all players do? I would like to be proven wrong but Abraham is not doing much at the moment to dispel that, especially with his overall performances.

On top of that, there is the situation with Abraham's contract. Is he actually committed to staying and improving at the club or does he care more about getting a big fat contract like CHO? If is the latter, then I am not sure I would want a player with that kind of mindset at the club, especially when he is not backing his own contract demands with his performances. If it is the former, then he needs to get his head down, work hard/smart, play well and the contract situation will take care of itself. He has only 2 years left on his contract and if he does not want to sign one and/or intends to drag this out, then is it worthy for Lampard to continue having him in his long-term plan? If Abraham does not want to sign a new contract, then we very likely need to sell him next summer. 

He started well and actually his 7 goals came from just three games (Norwich, Sheffield, Wolves). 

Apart from that just 8 goals in other 36 games he participated this season. 

He had 10 goals after 12 PL games, was for a long period of time top scorer in the league, or top3, top5... Now he lost top10 spot, and probably will lose top15 in the next 5 games.

In the last 6 PL starts Giroud scored 4 goals. Tammy has just 2 goals in the last 15 PL games he played. 

And when he does not score he offers nothing unlike Giroud.

I dont think he fights anymore for starting spot because with Timo he dont have a chance, he could maybe fight to be a backup option but he is not better than Olie.

Since he would not be happy to be just that I think selling him this or next summer is very possible option.

We can probably get 40-50m for him... Timo, Olie and Havertz if he comes could all play striker. And even Auba for just 25m would be a great buy.

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I'm still a big fan of my man Abraham. Not sure what happened to his game. First half of the season the dude was on fire. He looked set to become a huge CF.

Well, I think we just gave him a free pass because he was scoring goals. He always had problems in his game. For example, Drogba never was prolific goalscorer, but when he wasn't scoring he was always helping the team. Same thing can be said about Giroud (I'm comparing Drogba and Giroud). Abraham is pretty much useless when he doesn't score. 

Lampard made the right call when he reintroduced Giroud into the first team. 

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1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

I would be more inclined to say the club should give him that if they want to keep him. 
 

Lets be honest he has what 14 PL goals this season? He has been out on loan several times, has made more appearances and done more for the first team than what Callum has done who is on that or more if you take bonuses into account.

As I and many others have posted before, the scenario with Callum’s contract and the figures involved were always going to potentially cause scenarios like this. I could understand if it was someone who hadn’t featured as prominently, who hadn’t scored 14 goals in the PL, who hasn’t featured as the number 1 striker for a good chunk of the season but the harsh reality is where would we be without those goals? 
 

If the club want him to stay make a pretty good compromise or give him that wage. Simple as. They didnt have a huge issue with giving somebody with only 15 club appearances that sort of wage in the summer so dont see why its an issue with Tammy.

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15 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

What did I fecking tell you guys. Fecking asshole. After what you did yesterday being lazy and almost cost us the game? Feck off.

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What did I fecking tell you guys. Fecking asshole. After what you did yesterday being lazy and almost cost us the game? Feck off.
Yeah, without his goal we would have not won either lol

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2 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Yeah, without his goal we would have not won either lol

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Feck off with this narrow way of thinking. A goal does NOT excuse his entire performance. A goal doesn’t strike off a woeful performance from him. If the header was on target, (hit post instead) Abraham’s goal would mean shit.

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Feck off with this narrow way of thinking. A goal does NOT excuse his entire performance. A goal doesn’t strike off a woeful performance from him. If the header was on target, (hit post instead) Abraham’s goal would mean shit.


But it does not mean shit because he scored lol. Without his goal it would be 2:2. So you can hate him as much as you want, he scored the winning goal and Ruben made the winning assist. You would have slaughtered him if he hit the post, you slaughter him when he scores the winning goal. If Tammy won the last tackle or dribbling, you would not even have said he made a decisive goal and tackle. So Tammy can't win at all

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2 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Rashford plays as a LW and he is already world class

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He is a good player, but definitely not world class. Probably not even in the tier below world class (atleast in my opinion).

He started as a ST. And its only this year that he has played as a proper LW otherwise, his position kept alternating between LW and ST. 

My point simply being 130kpw for Tammy is a fair exchange.

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Just now, Puliiszola said:

He is a good player, but definitely not world class. Probably not even in the tier below world class (atleast in my opinion).

He started as a ST. And its only this year that he has played as a proper LW otherwise, his position kept alternating between LW and ST. 

My point simply being 130kpw for Tammy is a fair exchange.

Never mind them...its just a case of the grass is greener on the other side...this same Rashford all Man U fans were slating few months ago before the purchase of Fernandes now world class all of a sudden...

Same thing some few days ago branding Greenword the second coming of Ronaldo...

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Never mind them...its just a case of the grass is greener on the other side...this same Rashford all Man U fans were slating few months ago before the purchase of Fernandes now world class all of a sudden...
Same thing some few days ago branding Greenword the second coming of Ronaldo...
Rashford is a monster this season. He has better dribbling stats than Mane, scored and assisted more or less same as Mane and his creativity is also great. He is a complete package.

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