The Conte Thread

[MefiX19 1,092]

 

[whats happening 1,439]

this team needs a proper attacking threat from the right side instad of willian. sorry willian, you are my favorite player but we need more threat from that side, zouma to come back and the team to get used to the new tactic. then i will be sure that we are atleast a top4 material.

[MefiX19 1,092]

1 hour ago, whats happening said:

this team needs a proper attacking threat from the right side instad of willian. sorry willian, you are my favorite player but we need more threat from that side, zouma to come back and the team to get used to the new tactic. then i will be sure that we are atleast a top4 material.

agree on that. Maybe bring back one of the youngsters like Traore, Boga or Musonda?

[whats happening 1,439]

i would rather have a player who is close to his full potential.

[sir_volrath 61]

1 hour ago, whats happening said:

i would rather have a player who is close to his full potential.

We could have had freaking De Bruyne next to Hazard now.

[Essien19 1,415]

12 hours ago, petre.ispirescu said:

To judge Guardiola only on his Bundesliga performance is silly. Still, he is the first manager to win three consecutive league titles in the history of that competition. If it was that easy, why no one has done it before?

The only Champions League semi-final loss that can be atributed as his loss is the one against Atletico. In the other two he's had to do it without his best players. Against one of the best Real Madrid of the last decade and the Barcelona of an in form trio of Messi, Suarez and Neymar. No wonder that both of them have gone on to win the competition in the end. 

Baffles me how many are so quick to judge Guardiola, but praise the likes of Emery instead. Europa League titles does not make up for the fact that his away record is atrocious. Do you know how many matches Sevilla has won last season in the Spanish League? None! 19 matches - nine draws, ten defeats and no win. And it has not changed that much at Paris either. They have been gash away from home apart from an easy win at poor Caen. A dodgy win at Bastia and losses against Monaco and Toulouse shows he is nowhere near the manager some people make him to be. And they have not been great in their home matches either.

Ancelotti is a top manager, but this new Bayern does not look that dominant like it used to be with Guardiola. Late wins at Schalke and Hamburg, a loss against Atletico in Madrid and a draw at home against poor Koln shows you this. Guardiola's Bayern used to completely dominate opponents during August-November/December, but the new Bayern.. mehh... looks a lot more vulnerable.

Guardiola is not Messiah and he does not have to go to Port Vale and make them play like Messi and Suarez in their prime just to prove his worth. He is a manager doing his regular job and I don't see why he has to get a lot of stick for buying players to fit his tactics. In the end it is about putting his mark on the team with his very own players, not trying to make donkeys play the football they are not supposed to be playing. 

Guardiola is judged by the amount of players he's bought. But what about Mourinho? He's hit the 1 BILLION mark this summer on arrivals. The manager that has spent the most money in the history of this sport just to play medieval football. Unlike Guardiola, I'm pretty sure that Mourinho could play his trademark ugly football with the likes of Glenn Whelan and Harry Arter, too. No need to spend millions if you can't bring something new to the game.

These days Bayern have become a different animal in their domestic league. No one can match them financially. The gap hasn't always been this huge. Back in the day Magath won back to back the 'double' with a far inferior team, something Guardiola failed to do.

At this moment Bayern's players run less, passing has become less incisive which results in more and more errors at the back. The question is when do they peak? What good is for when you dominate the spell August-November/December and bottle it in spring against the big boys? For the domestic league history shows that it's good enough, but in Champions-League where teams can match you quality wise, it paints a different picture, tactics become more and more important. Bayern bought Guardiola to win the Champions-League, he didn't reach one final.

Bayern went to Camp Nou with the idea of playing three at the back, Barcelona dominated the match from minute one. Guardiola had to abort the experiment 15 minutes later, turned out to be an absolute fiasco. Back in the day Bayern didn't shoot much from distance, they should always play short passes, Bernat got caught because he tried to dribble near his box, ended in total disaster and they conceded. After that Guardiola gestured wildly from the sidelines to push his team forward, they conceded again and again. Should have tried to calm them down and have a go at them at home. Yeah, Barca had 'el tridente' at their best, but if it's all on the players (personally don't believe that), coaches become less important, still, you'd expect better than a 3:0 thumping in the first game. Bayern are no n00bs. Against Real in the second leg Guardiola was uncertain about his tactics, players called the shots, backfired massively. Still Bayern's heaviest home defeat on home soil. The first leg against Atletico looked like a sabotage mission. Throwing over of what've worked in the past.

Mourinho won the Champions-League with Porto. How much did his board spent back in the day? But still, don't know why you did come up with Jose Mourinho?! I only mentioned Simeone and Klopp. Mourinho's been underwhelming thus far, his teams bought a lot of players, right. Sure Mourinho can make the likes of Wheelan or Arter (who i do rate though) play to win, the question is can Guardiola? If it's that easy what Mourinho's been doing over the last decade (reference medieval footie), why did someone like Rodgers not copy his approach?
 

Quote

'No need to spend millions if you can't bring something new to the game.'

That's the interesting thing with Klopp and Simeone. Especially Klopp states it time and time again that money isn't everything. With his knowledge of team building he's competitive and brings something new to the table. I don't think that with the millions Chelsea spent on the likes of Fabregas and Costa it didn't result in not bringing something new to the club.

In the end it's all about winning. He's a good coach, but i can't hide that after the recent games i've an obnoxious smile in my face. He's not running away with it, is he?!

[!Hazard! 3,394]

Hazard, Costa, Moses, Alonso, Luiz, Kante. All these players seem to thrive in the 3-4-3 formation. And Matic, Cahill, Pedro, Willian and Azpilicueta aren't doing too badly either. In fact, the only player in the whole squad that really doesn't seem to fit in is Fabregas. If we keep winning with this formation, he might leave the club in January.

[manpe 10,855]

I just love this man.

 

 

[Fernando 6,374]

I think the best thing about him as to opposed to Mourinho is that he puts his words into action. 

He doesn't show favoritism and really does gives chances to those people that show it. And Moses is a perfect example about that. 

I still believe he is the best choice we could have gotten bar Simeone to go forward as a club. 

 

[Essien19 1,415]

20 minutes ago, Fernando said:

II still believe he is the best choice we could have gotten bar Simeone to go forward as a club. 

I could be wrong, but didn't you favour Bielsa or rather Sampaoli?

[Barbara 15,149]

He's finally finding his ground.

I've been critical of some of his decisions, but most time made a point that he is new and is experimenting, which is normal. I don't think he's a very top manager, he's good - average, but maybe he turns out to be better than I think...

He made good decisions, when we didn't have a lot of experience in the bench.

I like the 3-4-3 and it's working well. I wonder if he will bring Terry when he's certain he can play or if he will stick with Cahill. I hope for the former although none is ideal.

We completely dominated Leicester for most of the match and when they had possession they weren't that threatening. But we should take into account they rested some players.

All in all, it was a great one, a convincing one, even if Leicester wasn't that dangerous, but I think we made them look worse than they really were.

[Fernando 6,374]

2 hours ago, Essien19 said:

I could be wrong, but didn't you favour Bielsa or rather Sampaoli?

 

2 hours ago, Essien19 said:

I could be wrong, but didn't you favour Bielsa or rather Sampaoli?

Bielsa but only during the interim spell as I admit that guy is too crazy for our board. 

If Mourinho is crazy with his ego and loses the dressing room, this guy just walks away for nothing after being mad at the board. Lol. 

And nope not Sampaoli because we already been there with Scolari. Sampaoli needs to show himself first like he is doing at Sevilla before taking any consideration on him. 

Now if I owned the club I would have gotten Bielsa and given him total control like Wenger. But for our club we can't do that and thus managers like Conte are the best option. 

[Jase 43,479]

47 minutes ago, Fernando said:

 

Bielsa but only during the interim spell as I admit that guy is too crazy for our board. 

If Mourinho is crazy with his ego and loses the dressing room, this guy just walks away for nothing after being mad at the board. Lol. 

And nope not Sampaoli because we already been there with Scolari. Sampaoli needs to show himself first like he is doing at Sevilla before taking any consideration on him. 

Now if I owned the club I would have gotten Bielsa and given him total control like Wenger. But for our club we can't do that and thus managers like Conte are the best option. 

Total control or not, I wouldn't want Bielsa or Sampaoli (even if he does well at Sevilla). Their style of play may be exciting but it's on the wrong side of extreme and they are super obsessive with it. You only have to look at what happened with Bielsa at Athletic Bilbao and Marseille. Played great stuff but conceded way too many goals and suffered a big collapse as the season went on.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

19 hours ago, petre.ispirescu said:

To judge Guardiola only on his Bundesliga performance is silly. Still, he is the first manager to win three consecutive league titles in the history of that competition. If it was that easy, why no one has done it before?

The only Champions League semi-final loss that can be atributed as his loss is the one against Atletico. In the other two he's had to do it without his best players. Against one of the best Real Madrid of the last decade and the Barcelona of an in form trio of Messi, Suarez and Neymar. No wonder that both of them have gone on to win the competition in the end. 

Baffles me how many are so quick to judge Guardiola, but praise the likes of Emery instead. Europa League titles does not make up for the fact that his away record is atrocious. Do you know how many matches Sevilla has won last season in the Spanish League? None! 19 matches - nine draws, ten defeats and no win. And it has not changed that much at Paris either. They have been gash away from home apart from an easy win at poor Caen. A dodgy win at Bastia and losses against Monaco and Toulouse shows he is nowhere near the manager some people make him to be. And they have not been great in their home matches either.

Ancelotti is a top manager, but this new Bayern does not look that dominant like it used to be with Guardiola. Late wins at Schalke and Hamburg, a loss against Atletico in Madrid and a draw at home against poor Koln shows you this. Guardiola's Bayern used to completely dominate opponents during August-November/December, but the new Bayern.. mehh... looks a lot more vulnerable.

Guardiola is not Messiah and he does not have to go to Port Vale and make them play like Messi and Suarez in their prime just to prove his worth. He is a manager doing his regular job and I don't see why he has to get a lot of stick for buying players to fit his tactics. In the end it is about putting his mark on the team with his very own players, not trying to make donkeys play the football they are not supposed to be playing. 

Guardiola is judged by the amount of players he's bought. But what about Mourinho? He's hit the 1 BILLION mark this summer on arrivals. The manager that has spent the most money in the history of this sport just to play medieval football. Unlike Guardiola, I'm pretty sure that Mourinho could play his trademark ugly football with the likes of Glenn Whelan and Harry Arter, too. No need to spend millions if you can't bring something new to the game.

Its not about not praising him. Or praising Emery. Its about his picture and what media throws to fans. 

They try to market Pep for something different from others. For someone who always promotes youth, brings best of the players, etc etc. Thing is he is exactly like others. He buys players, spends millions, gets rid of those who dont fit him one way or another, and also buys foreign talents, not growing club ones. That last one is most important. He bought Sane and Jesus, Stones. Why not groom city talent if he is such master? Back in bayern, bought Kimmich, Coman etc. Emery is Emery. People praise him for what he is. Good coach who won El trice. Thats it. Now he tried harder challenge and maybe he makes it. Pep is praised for many things he is not. Barca had ridiculously talented squad who started under Rijkard and Pep only improved it (still he bought Chigrinsky, thrown out Thiago to play Cesc and bunch of other blunders). Nevertheless credit for him and his golden period at barca.

Also its all fine to make your own style. But to bring whole group of spaniards to a german club and destroy their tradition? It works with team without tradition, but bayern? Nah. There were so many critics in germany over his work its unbelievable.

Normaly Heynkness bayern wouldnt perform forever, but it had core of what bayern in. Then Pep comes and replaces half of the squad, but most importantly dumps Kroos who should and would (under Heynkess) become their long term captain. And goes buy gazilion of foreign players instead of german ones. Not to mention he almost blocked Muller out of 11 to fit his needs. Basicaly he almost f*cked up the german core of that team to suit himself without thinking how it will work after he leaves. Then there is Gotze who was ultimate flop under Pep. He tried to utilize Lahm in midfield which didnt work and Low almost lost when he did same with Lahm in world cup for germany (then he switched back and they did much better).

I think Bayern will suffer the consequences of such work because half of current bayern squad went there for Pep and not to be part of bavarian culture and club (opposite of Heynkess). We can all see how different the players play now under Carlo (who is great coach afterall). Then again Neuer, Ribery etc. still perform well there. 

What Pep is TRULY different from other coaches is his style. He implements his style to every team. BUT where did this style bring him to? It got outdated in Barca. In bayern it never realy worked. Three semis, the one vs barca was his fault as was one vs atletico. Against real and barca he had few players missing, but partly it could be his fault for his training (since he took bayern, there were countless injuries which was unusal. So his style doesnt bring results either these days.

What makes of it then? He doesnt groom clubs youth. He doesnt win titles (lets be fair, bayern got him to get them CL period). He definately hurt Bayern club culture. With city that wont be a problem because they dont have true definition, but even here Hart, Kompany are almost as good as gone.

And his style is outdated. The only reason he is still there its because its nice to watch. Now everyone likes to watch good football, but how many trophies did Arsenal win recent 10 years?

Pep is great coach nevertheless, if you bring him neutral club, he will install his phylosophy there. To every player and board and fan. But the results against top dogs are all that matter when we talk about best in europe. And Pep fails that. Maybe city will be different, but I somehow doubt it. He will land Real, Barca again, Aguero, Kdb, Silva get often injured and there is big chance they miss the games ( ) and he will lose. Im almost certain of it. He cant adopt to the situation. He cant sit back and defend, play on counter.

Bonucci is actualy in similar boat like Pep when comes to media. I hear he is the best italian defender, but thats not true. Best out and out defender is for a while now Barzagli. But Bonucci is a more classy version of a defender, and media just grabs it over and over, throwing out he is the best defender out there. Not true. Still world class CB tho.

I respect Pep actualy, I see him perfect for team without real culture, he can develop players and next manager adjusts them and wins titles. But for established teams like bayern, pep is a no-go. Or if you want CL. What I dont like about him is how he sells himself to media and fans.

The media makes him like porsche 918 while he is a P1 if you know what I mean.

[Fernando 6,374]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Total control or not, I wouldn't want Bielsa or Sampaoli (even if he does well at Sevilla). Their style of play may be exciting but it's on the wrong side of extreme and they are super obsessive with it. You only have to look at what happened with Bielsa at Athletic Bilbao and Marseille. Played great stuff but conceded way too many goals and suffered a big collapse as the season went on.

What he did at those teams just makes me wonder if he had bigger resources how he would fare? 

Like someone said that Mourinho has big money in his squad that managed closed to 1 billion. I wonder how Bielsa would have done in a matter of 10 years with that amount? 

I guess Barcelona are that, since Pep is a big admired of Bielsa as well. He learned a lot from him.....amazingly Poch is also from the school. But Pochetino seems the most balance out all of them. Does not have a super obsessive view with attacking futbol as you mentioned. 

Anyhow they still produced some memorable games that you never forget. Like I remember the game Bilbao played against United in the EL back then. It was a thing of beauty. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

On 15/10/2016 at 1:58 AM, Heisenberg said:

Misses it on the very top ? He is the manager that won the most titles since he begun managing, no one is on top of him.He lost CL semi finals everytime, not being knocked out on earlier stage, its really difficult to win a CL semi final if we forgot that.

He brough youth only at Barça, at Bayern it wasnt needed, what was needed were titles, continous success, and Pep gave them that, the fact that we are judging him on how much CL he lost justifies how high his standards are, as a club we won 1 CL and its considered as the greatest achievement ever made by the club, he won 2 and lost only semi finals.

Pep is better at marketing ? I think this insult the man's daily work, thats non sense to me.

At barca he had fantastic generation. Many players were brought earlier before him by Rijkard. Two players that Pep truly had were Bojan and Thiago. One floped, other was benched for Cesc by Pep himself. Bartra and others never worked out. Wonder why? If Pep was that great he would make them work. That barca team wasnt just Pep thing. They were exceptional players, majority discovered by Rijkard. And further developed by Pep. Enrique has done brilliantly there too, because like Pep he has amazing team. 

Bayern? To start, Bayern has philosophy of having german core and playing direct football. Pep did the opposite. Considering Bayern is institution and Pep is just a man, sooner or later they will go back to their german philosophy. However Pep brought dozen players that dont fit that and got rid of few like Kroos and almost Muller. Thats not what I see as process for the future. It will take bayern some time to go back. 

Perhaps he made them play better to the eye (I dont realy fancy his style of endless passing tho), but got no results. Three buli in a row were kinda expected, considering they bought from their only rival two of best players haha.

He had Bayern. In three years there is no excuse not to reach final at least once. We are talking about Bayern who was on par with Barca and Real. Even Atletico managed to reach cl final twice in three years. 

He made dozen mistakes in past three CLs. Mou did it too vs atletico and was torn to pieces that he was outclassed. Meanwhile Pep? Three losses...well it happens right? We play fancy football, catching to the eye of neutral and we cant get outdated. 

Unless whole football world goes by Pep philosophy, he will get beaten one way or the other. Ajax had that great team, won all, filled europe with philosophy,  then things went different, more balanced way. Then it was barca with pep. But that time is over. He is without CL for 5 years. For manager who got so many trophies for bayern, one has to wonder was CL simply too hard or is buli too easy? 

Pep revolutionised football, and certain things will stick to what modern football is (like ball playing CBs), but Pep is too heavy on his style. Its all fine to play flowing football, balanced, but what Pep tries is domination and today top teams will expose him because he cant adopt and they can.

From our perspective, I guess he would make us more balanced because we arw mess (tho, would you hire him in 2005?) But when he leaves? England has its own philosophy. Thats why Leicester won it last year and Arsenal didnt in 10 years. Because nice football and passing and possesion mean shit when it comes to results. You will get teams who will press you and score 1 goal even if you had 10% possesion whole game. And thats whats all about. Problem with Pep is he cant adopt. He is now in england. He is lucky to have weak Chelsea, United for opponents but even this way he will probably get punished on few ocassions. 

German league was flat track bully for Pep. English doesnt look much better, but still more competitive.

I think it all comes down to perspective. Some will rate Pep for style, some old Mou for efficiency. Happy medium ala Ancelotti is probably the best. Then there was Saf.

Once it was Cruyff, there was Mou with his buses, then Pep. It all goes out once...I just think Pep marketing works well enough to cover all the poor results with fancy stats and style.

[sir_volrath 61]

Have you looked at Bayern post Pep? They look like a shadow of their former selves.

[Antonio8 736]

terrible chelsea trained by a complete idiot is 3 points from the incredible spectacular city trained by jesus christ..

you're so ridicolous..

come on conte, you're the truth--..