A New Technical Director

[Ossie the King 634]

7 minutes ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

Are you? Because everything you said up to this point has missed the mark in accordance to his job description. You seem to be looking for a sporting director/director of football which I would agree with... I don't think Emenalo has done a bad job as our technical director/scouting overseer, we have been bringing some incredibly talented players since he's come in. The quality of our youth program has also improved immensely as well...

And yet not a single youth team player has made the breakthrough into the first team. There's larger issues for that but 'not done a bad job' is hardly a ringing endorsement for the man.

 

8 minutes ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

 

You and many supporters have placed the blame at the wrong person's feet. The talent was identified and not acquired... Michael doesn't sign the players he merely finds the players. This past summer the club decided to re-use a championship winning club rather than overpay competition in places, it was a mistake but no one thought it would be this grave.

 

I agree with most of this which is why I've said a root and branch review is needed, but I think Marina is just like Emenalo - one of Roman's entourage promoted beyond her capabilities. Again, to use City's example they looked to hire the best. We didn't and that startling lack of ambition is now manifesting itself on the pitch.

 

10 minutes ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

I would love to see a Sporting Director at Chelsea as well as a footballing director like Didier... Michael keeps his job as technical director in my books as we are identifying the right players.

I think just a director with an expanded remit is more than enough but I have no doubt that Emenalo would probably still be kept on by Roman, probably out of pity and a sense of duty to him. 

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

3 minutes ago, Ossie the King said:

And yet not a single youth team player has made the breakthrough into the first team. There's larger issues for that but 'not done a bad job' is hardly a ringing endorsement for the man.

 

I agree with most of this which is why I've said a root and branch review is needed, but I think Marina is just like Emenalo - one of Roman's entourage promoted beyond her capabilities. Again, to use City's example they looked to hire the best. We didn't and that startling lack of ambition is now manifesting itself on the pitch.

 

I think just a director with an expanded remit is more than enough but I have no doubt that Emenalo would probably still be kept on by Roman, probably out of pity and a sense of duty to him. 

LOL I think we need to end this here. Now Emenalo is to blame for the youth not getting into the first team? I can't even call that a stretch, I don't think a word in the english language has been invented to describe how far off the mark that insinuation is. Yes there are MUCH LARGER issues at play and given the circumstances, yes, Emenalo has not done a bad job at all.

City? Please stop... I've already shown why that model is nothing short of a disaster. How many youth have made it into their squad? I would say Chelsea are helluva lot closer to seeing youth incorporated than City are.  Inheanacho fella looks pretty good but he's hardly a youth product since he was signed in 2014, he's their version of Traore... Can you please provide another example of where top clubs have hired a director of football and thus flourished as a result because right now this City thing you keep banging on about is severely flawed. 

Would you care to offer up a few names of high ranking directors of football?

[Ossie the King 634]

1 hour ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

LOL I think we need to end this here. Now Emenalo is to blame for the youth not getting into the first team? I can't even call that a stretch, I don't think a word in the english language has been invented to describe how far off the mark that insinuation is. Yes there are MUCH LARGER issues at play and given the circumstances, yes, Emenalo has not done a bad job at all.

So you make it sound like I said he's to blame, but then acknowledge that I said there were larger issues. Ok....

 

1 hour ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

City? Please stop... I've already shown why that model is nothing short of a disaster. How many youth have made it into their squad? I would say Chelsea are helluva lot closer to seeing youth incorporated than City are.  Inheanacho fella looks pretty good but he's hardly a youth product since he was signed in 2014, he's their version of Traore... Can you please provide another example of where top clubs have hired a director of football and thus flourished as a result because right now this City thing you keep banging on about is severely flawed. 

Look at Txiki's time at Barcelona. Along with Laporta they completely revamped that club and instituted a philosophy that seems to be getting them results despite having changes in the coach's position. You favour the Fergie method and I would love for that to happen. I just don't think the realities of modern football allow for that. 

With our high turnover of coaches I believe we need consistency somewhere and it can't be the owner in my opinion. 

But let's just leave it there. We clearly won't agree on this and I don't want you to get any more wound up. I'll wave up to you at the next match. Enjoy the season.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

1 minute ago, Ossie the King said:

So you make it sound like I said he's to blame, but then acknowledge that I said there were larger issues. Ok....

 

Look at Txiki's time at Barcelona. Along with Laporta they completely revamped that club and instituted a philosophy that seems to be getting them results despite having changes in the coach's position. You favour the Fergie method and I would love for that to happen. I just don't think the realities of modern football allow for that. 

With our high turnover of coaches I believe we need consistency somewhere and it can't be the owner in my opinion. 

But let's just leave it there. We clearly won't agree on this and I don't want you to get any more wound up. I'll wave up to you at the next match. Enjoy the season.

And you're crediting that to Txiki and Laporta? Are you forgetting that whole style and philosophy was founded by Dutch great Johann Cruyff? That La Masia was already well up and running long before Txiki? 

In 1988, Johan Cruyff returned to the club as manager and he assembled the so-called Dream Team.^[58] He used a mix of Spanish players like Pep Guardiola, José Mari Bakero and Txiki Begiristain while signing international players such as Ronald Koeman, Michael Laudrup, Romário and Hristo Stoichkov.^[59]

It was ten years after the inception of the youth program, La Masia, when the young players began to graduate and play for their first team. One of the first graduates, who would later earn international acclaim, was previous Barcelona coach Pep Guardiola.^[60] Under Cruyff's guidance, Barcelona won four consecutive La Liga titles from 1991 to 1994. They beat Sampdoria in both the 1989 UEFA Cup Winners' Cup final and the 1992 European Cup final atWembley, with a free kick goal from Dutch international Ronald Koeman. They also won a Copa del Rey in 1990, the European Super Cup in 1992 and three Supercopa de España trophies. With 11 trophies, Cruyff became the club's most successful manager at that point. He also became the club's longest consecutive serving manager, serving eight years.^[61] Cruyff's fortune was to change, and, in his final two seasons, he failed to win any trophies and fell out with president Núñez, resulting in his departure.^[52] On the legacy of Cruyff's football philosophy and the passing style of play he introduced to the club, future coach of Barcelona Pep Guardiola would state, "Cruyff built the cathedral, our job is to maintain and renovate it."

[Ossie the King 634]

8 minutes ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

And you're crediting that to Txiki and Laporta? Are you forgetting that whole style and philosophy was founded by Dutch great Johann Cruyff? That La Masia was already well up and running long before Txiki? 

 

Not at all, but it was under Laporta's presidency and Txiki's stewardship that they recommitted themselves to that style of football, as well as using more graduates from La Masia. That began with Rijkaard coming in and then continued with Guardiola taking it further, and they look to be there again with Luis Enrique. There was a great documentary on it that I could try and dig out and link to you if you'd like?

That's what we should strive for - an enduring philosophy that isn't dependent on any one manager but is sustainable. We don't have that. We're a chequebook club at the moment who probably overachieved last season. But like I said, we obviously disagree. You bring up the Champions League as a sign of our success, I look at our performances and the fact we finished 6th and think old big ears was papering over some pretty massive cracks. We won't agree because we're looking for different things.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

1 minute ago, Ossie the King said:

 

Not at all, but it was under Laporta's presidency and Txiki's stewardship that they recommitted themselves to that style of football, as well as using more graduates from La Masia. That began with Rijkaard coming in and then continued with Guardiola taking it further, and they look to be there again with Luis Enrique. There was a great documentary on it that I could try and dig out and link to you if you'd like?

That's what we should strive for - an enduring philosophy that isn't dependent on any one manager but is sustainable. We don't have that. We're a chequebook club at the moment who probably overachieved last season. But like I said, we obviously disagree. You bring up the Champions League as a sign of our success, I look at our performances and the fact we finished 6th and think old big ears was papering over some pretty massive cracks. We won't agree because we're looking for different things.

Exactly.

But what comes first? The philosophy or the manager? In almost every instance it was the iconic manager that came in and shaped the vision/blueprint. And you're right I don't agree that us winning the champions league was the result of some weird stroke of luck. What you fail to acknowledge is the years leading up to that memorable day is we had already played in 5 semi finals in the competition before we found that winning formula. I would say the win was less flukey and a testament to perseverance, and while I agree he had less to do with the Champions league than say last years Premier league title, to say he had no role or that we were flukey is so wide of the mark.

And yes we are a chequebook club! Much like Barca, Real Madrid, Bayern, PSG, City, Utd any other top club in world football! The game has changed... What we do have is a guy who has an eye for talent and we've been able to exploit his abilities to our benefit. Example of that is Kevin De Bruyne, who we bought for 7m and later caked in close to 28m on his sale. There are numerous examples of this like Lukaku... No wonder we didn't take his resignation, he's made a lot of money for the transfer kitty. Like it or not he is an asset in his defined role, what we need now is someone who has a footballing vision to shape our philosophy, we need a Johann Cruyff not Txiki who is failing miserably at trying to duplicate that which can't be duplicated.

[The Skipper 20,593]

@Chelsea Legend 11, absolutely spot on in your posts chap. I tried to have this discussion with OTK before - how we need to look at implementing a philosophy at the club and all I got is how it was Emenalo's job to do that when its pretty clear that that isn't his role and that it's something above him, something the board needs to look to improve.

[Ossie the King 634]

11 hours ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

Exactly.

But what comes first? The philosophy or the manager? In almost every instance it was the iconic manager that came in and shaped the vision/blueprint.

For us that has been Jose, but going forward I don't see a coach being given time to do that (especially not like Fergie or Wenger were) so I think we have to be realistic and look outside of that role. 

 

11 hours ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

And you're right I don't agree that us winning the champions league was the result of some weird stroke of luck. What you fail to acknowledge is the years leading up to that memorable day is we had already played in 5 semi finals in the competition before we found that winning formula. I would say the win was less flukey and a testament to perseverance, and while I agree he had less to do with the Champions league than say last years Premier league title, to say he had no role or that we were flukey is so wide of the mark.

 

I think it was a combination of a core of experienced players making one unbelievable last push (the core assembled and moulded by Jose in his time here) and huge strokes of luck. We were not the best team in Europe that year, we weren't even the best in London arguably, but the stars aligned and everything went our way. That's not to dismiss the win but to look at it in context and acknowledge (again) the reality the what happened.

 

11 hours ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

And yes we are a chequebook club! Much like Barca, Real Madrid, Bayern, PSG, City, Utd any other top club in world football! The game has changed... What we do have is a guy who has an eye for talent and we've been able to exploit his abilities to our benefit. Example of that is Kevin De Bruyne, who we bought for 7m and later caked in close to 28m on his sale. There are numerous examples of this like Lukaku... No wonder we didn't take his resignation, he's made a lot of money for the transfer kitty. Like it or not he is an asset in his defined role, what we need now is someone who has a footballing vision to shape our philosophy, we need a Johann Cruyff not Txiki who is failing miserably at trying to duplicate that which can't be duplicated.

I think De Bruyne went for about £10 million less than that but I get your point that part of his remit is to by appreciating assets for us to either sell or incorporate into the team in the future. With our scouting network and vast resources, I think that is possibly one of the easiest jobs in world football but that's neither here nor there. What I believe the role should expand to include is a greater influence on the footballing side so that you have some cohesion between the man who has great responsibility in acquiring players and is also the long-term stable presence that a coach is unlikely to be.

Anyway, enjoyed the chat and it's clear to see we differ in our views but you engaged anyway. You weren't just a yappy little dog on the sidelines but actually got involved and I have to respect that. Cheers mate.

[The Skipper 20,593]

@Chelsea Legend 11 @Ossie the King moved your discussion into this thread chaps. 

[The Skipper 20,593]

7 hours ago, Ossie the King said:

Anyway, enjoyed the chat and it's clear to see we differ in our views but you engaged anyway. You weren't just a yappy little dog on the sidelines but actually got involved and I have to respect that. Cheers mate.

Is this meant to be a comment against me or?

 

We've already had a similar discussion on this, CL11 just reinforced exactly what I was telling you. 

[Ossie the King 634]

3 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

 

We've already had a similar discussion on this, CL11 just reinforced exactly what I was telling you. 

 

He made some excellent points didn't he? 

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

8 hours ago, Ossie the King said:

For us that has been Jose, but going forward I don't see a coach being given time to do that (especially not like Fergie or Wenger were) so I think we have to be realistic and look outside of that role. 

 

I think it was a combination of a core of experienced players making one unbelievable last push (the core assembled and moulded by Jose in his time here) and huge strokes of luck. We were not the best team in Europe that year, we weren't even the best in London arguably, but the stars aligned and everything went our way. That's not to dismiss the win but to look at it in context and acknowledge (again) the reality the what happened.

 

I think De Bruyne went for about £10 million less than that but I get your point that part of his remit is to by appreciating assets for us to either sell or incorporate into the team in the future. With our scouting network and vast resources, I think that is possibly one of the easiest jobs in world football but that's neither here nor there. What I believe the role should expand to include is a greater influence on the footballing side so that you have some cohesion between the man who has great responsibility in acquiring players and is also the long-term stable presence that a coach is unlikely to be.

Anyway, enjoyed the chat and it's clear to see we differ in our views but you engaged anyway. You weren't just a yappy little dog on the sidelines but actually got involved and I have to respect that. Cheers mate.

I do tend to agree that there is no place in the modern game for a legacy coach anymore. We won't see one guy at a club for 10-15 yrs but I don't think it'll take that long to establish a style and philosophy. Look at Atletico Madrid for example, or to a lesser extent Mark Hughes at Stoke. Clearly in both instances the coach has revolutionized the style of football being at each club. If we get a coach signed and allow him to live out the duration of his contract (even one term) we will have the makings of a philosophy to build on. Frankly I think our guy is Simeone only because he is the closest thing out there to Jose... If we give him limitless funds he can build a team in his image and perhaps redefine Mourinho's legacy in the way Guardiola did for Cruyff. Just my opinion, we don't play like Barca, the hallmark of our golden era was founded on hard work, power and discipline... all the things that seem to be me missing right now. 

The team was miles different post AVB and the record would've been different had we not transformed from a league team(for lack of a better term) to a cup team, don't forget we also won the FA Cup that year. It was clear to me when I watched them play the league form was sacrificed for the cup runs... At any rate you can view it any way you like, we won it and yes Emenalo had a role.

De Bruyne had a sell on fee worked into his contract so when he went to City we got extra money from the sale.

[Ossie the King 634]

3 minutes ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

If we get a coach signed and allow him to live out the duration of his contract (even one term) we will have the makings of a philosophy to build on. Frankly I think our guy is Simeone only because he is the closest thing out there to Jose... If we give him limitless funds he can build a team in his image and perhaps redefine Mourinho's legacy in the way Guardiola did for Cruyff. Just my opinion, we don't play like Barca, the hallmark of our golden era was founded on hard work, power and discipline... all the things that seem to be me missing right now. 

 

Couldn't agree more. I don't want us to be Barca either. I like us to be the anti-Barca, the team that steamrolls over the Arsenals and Barcelona's of this world and we absolutely are missing those aspects from our game.

[Fulham Broadway 16,408]

17 minutes ago, Ossie the King said:

 

Couldn't agree more. I don't want us to be Barca either. I like us to be the anti-Barca, the team that steamrolls over the Arsenals and Barcelona's of this world and we absolutely are missing those aspects from our game.

Yup, that was Joses philosophy apparently according to wee Pat after his acrimonious departure from Camp Nou. To not worry about possession, to let them wear themselves out, and do them on the break.  -so aptly demonstrated by the CFC dvd  (mines almost worn oit )  'the greatest game' when we won 4-2 against the Catalans

[quickpassnmove 924]

I don't know who is to blame, but CFC haven't figured out how to build a strong squad yet. I thought good things were underway when we dumped Luiz and Torres, but since then (and years before), I've been waiting to see quality and depth in centre midfield and fullback. 

I like the suggestion that CFC need people who really know football on the board. Seems that what DYC says on page 1 of this thread is true: appointments have been "all over the place;" meaning Chelsea have not had a coherent vision to go with the constant change of managers and lack of youth integration.

Other top clubs put a lot of effort into finding the right players for centre mid and fullback. This one has spent a lot of time (many seasons now) with a thin layer and lack of quality in those positions. Now centre back is looking weaker and we lack strikers, so... like Guardiola said. 

[xPetrCechx 13,548]

[BlueLion. 21,491]

The fact we've left our business until this late in the window is proof Emenalo has to go. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

The core to our problems is IMO board. While City for example has people like Soriano or Begiristain who actualy know how to run the club, we are stuck with Emenalo and co.

Also Granovskaia...Milan has female among directors and look where they are (that was sexist but you get the point). Tho she did some good work. But since Gourlay left, transfers were nothing but disaster. Cuadrado, Pedro, Djilo, Falcao...