The Mourinho Thread

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Mourinho's style of attacking is to press the ball high with intensity and force the opponent to submission. This takes too much energy.

We have Liverpool, Bradford and Liverpool again, just before mancity.

Mancity have just 1 match in this same period.

So Mourinho picks mikel and we sit back and conserve as much energy as possible and hopes mikel and Matic can shield the back from being too open. Taking a draw and going for high intensity with Oscar in the 2nd leg.

He should learn how to hold possession, even if it's aimlessly to conserve energy, this our team can't sit back, unless we bench fabregas and mikel for ramires and oscar. That way everyone in the midfield is mobile and can tackle properly. Mikel is no David luiz and fabregas is no oscar.

[Barbara 15,149]

Let me just type my piece. I know some posters will accuse me of being anti-Mourinho but then again, I could care less. The way we're playing against Liverpool is all Mourinho. It's not Iva or Cahill. The unforced errors and misplaced passes is as a result of the negative tactics. Same thing at City. Even Cesc was misplacing them too. Even if we lost this game, say 2-1 and at least came out to play FOOTBALL, I won't be typing this now.

First and foremost, what some seem NOT to realize is that Mourinho is the one responsible for setting this team up offensively and defensively. In the latter, he's great, phenomenal even. His ability to organize a defense was almost revolutionary in English football in his first spell here. Let's remember in his first season here, we only conceded 15 goals in the league. First and foremost above anything else, he's a defensive minded manager. There's nothing wrong with that, but it seems a contradiction to the current group of players at his disposal.

In the former however, he's a one trick pony. That's what many people don't get and that's why I feel this group of players don't match his management style at all. Mourinho just doesn't know how to set up his sides to play decent, possession based football. We just press and hope for the best. When the press doesn't work, we retreat to our shell and play "counter-attacking" football. Except it isn't actually that, it's the football of cowards. And when defend and hope for the best doesn't work, we invariably lose or if we're lucky, draw. The only time we come out to play and express ourselves on the pitch is against mediocre sides and even that is once in a blue moon. That's the pattern I've seen in his second spell here, especially in the so-called "bigger" games and it worries me greatly. I hoped and prayed that Mourinho would have become more sophisticated with his tactical approach 2nd time around but it's the same shit over again. It's the worst football of any Chelsea manager I've ever seen in my life with the players at his disposal, both on the pitch and on the bench.

We might win the league, but we won't win the Champions league. Once we face a Barca or a Real especially, we'll get killed. We don't have the same defensive minded team that we had a few years ago and I can't imagine Cahill and a 34 year old Terry being able to defend for 180 mins vs the best attacking players in the world.

Did you watch us playing against Swansea on the weekend?

A one trick pony doesn't set a team like that. Don't you remember the way we played West Ham, the way we approached matches early this season in general?

Some of his choices has been making me wonder how long I really want him here, but to call him a one trick pony is ridiculous - with due respect to your opinion and the ones that liked your post.

I'm very disappointed with him lately about how he's been approaching some games and how he doesn't react earlier, but I completely disagree with some of the things you wrote there...

Also people suddenly forgot we won or drew all big matches last season in the league? what's this bullshit that we can't play 'big sides'?

We drew against both Mancs - while not great, but bad either. We beat this same Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs. The match at WHL was a collective brainfart... which happens in football.

and now Mourinho is labeled by the manager that always loses in the SF because he has 4 UCL SF in his resume in the last four seasons. As if that was bad... we aren't the only good side in the world and Ancelloti's RM was one and a half minute away of losing the final.

Mourinho isn't as good as he used to be imo, but the overreaction here is unbearable.

[The Chels 2,502]

Mourinho's style of attacking is to press the ball high with intensity and force the opponent to submission. This takes too much energy.

It wouldn't be if it wasn't so chaotic. The most frustrating thing is when we press high with 3-4 players, the opposition move it out wide and our next closest player (this is often Ivanovic) does not push up meaning that was all for nothing. Our pressing is easily bypassed and we've not nailed it once against a big team this season. In the majority of cases our pressing leave huge gaps and Jose would surely have fixed this by now if he knew how. The fact that he hasn't suggests he doesn't.

[The Chels 2,502]

and now Mourinho is labeled by the manager that always loses in the SF because he has 4 UCL SF in his resume in the last four seasons. As if that was bad... we aren't the only good side in the world and Ancelloti's RM was one and a half minute away of losing the final. Mourinho isn't as good as he used to be imo, but the overreaction here is unbearable.

He's won 2 out of 8 CL SFs in his career. Yes there are plenty of good teams in the latter stages of the CL but he's had some brilliant sides himself and that's a fairly awful record for someone who is often descirbed as one of the greatest (big game) managers ever. I posted on here when the draw against Liverpool was announced about how we'd struggle if Jose did his usual SF approach - an extreme fear of conceding that results in a lack of attacking ambition and ironically less defensive stability. I didn't actually think he would do that against this Liverpool side in the Capital One Cup but I really shouldn't be shocked by his tactics anymore.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

It wouldn't be if it wasn't so chaotic. The most frustrating thing is when we press high with 3-4 players, the opposition move it out wide and our next closest player (this is often Ivanovic) does not push up meaning that was all for nothing. Our pressing is easily bypassed and we've not nailed it once against a big team this season. In the majority of cases our pressing leave huge gaps and Jose would surely have fixed this by now if he knew how. The fact that he hasn't suggests he doesn't.

We can press well, Mourinho just played out the match exactly as he wanted. Conserving energy and nicking a draw away and wait for the return leg. The difference was last season the midfield was faster with ramires and David luiz in it. This season we're easily turned by chadlii, cabella, sissoko, and now sterling. No recovery speed in our midfield especially since we have the worst 1 on 1 centerbacks for a top team.

[GodZola 630]

Let's all just throw in the towel now shall we?!

Couldn't agree more that José got it wrong in selection, tactics, formation, lack of sub's & the shit we had to endure - the second half in particular.

However, as fortunate as we were & we can thank Courtois for that, the fact is (unless I'm missing something) the result was 1-1, it's still all to play for, advantage at home etc, sure cane the bloke if we go out after the second leg but give the guy some leeway til then ffs!

You can be sure if we go through then all the negativity will be replaced by 'best coach in the world'.......you can't make it up!

[The Chels 2,502]

We can press well, Mourinho just played out the match exactly as he wanted. Conserving energy and nicking a draw away and wait for the return leg. The difference was last season the midfield was faster with ramires and David luiz in it. This season we're easily turned by chadlii, cabella, sissoko, and now sterling. No recovery speed in our midfield especially since we have the worst 1 on 1 centerbacks for a top team.

Relative to the best we really, really can't. Honestly the number of times our press is overcome and the huge gaps in front of the midfield are exposed is staggering. If we could press well we would be creating more chances and wouldn't concede so many clear-cut ones in the big games. Just watch Atletico do it and it is extremely rare for a team to consistently beat their press within a game and if they do they are nowhere near as porous as we are. Only Barcelona are really capable of beating Atletico's press because they have technically incredible footballers and even they sometimes struggle whereas ours gets beat a lot, even at home.

[bababoom 4,478]

We really, really can't. Honestly the number of times our press is overcome and the huge gaps in front of the midfield are exposed is staggering. If we could press well we would be creating more chances and wouldn't concede so many clear-cut ones in the big games. Just watch Atletico do it and it is extremely rare for a team to consistently beat their press within a game, if they do at all. Only Barcelona are really capable of it because they have technically incredible footballers and even they sometimes struggle.

Our attacking players press very well including Matic on occasion. The main reason we cant commit to it fully is because of John Terry's lack of pace. Our defense sits far too deep to ever press in phases.

[The Chels 2,502]

Our attacking players press very well including Matic on occasion. The main reason we cant commit to it fully is because of John Terry's lack of pace. Our defense sits far too deep to ever press in phases.

On occasion yes, but we should aim for a higher success rate. I'm always screaming at someone (usually Ivanovic) to help out in a 1v1 or 2v2 situation when he's so near and us overloading would make it so much more likely that we gain possession from the press. Instead we often rely on 50-50s. Also Atletico don't use a high line to press and they have no issues with compactness.

[Barbara 15,149]

He's won 2 out of 8 CL SFs in his career. Yes there are plenty of good teams in the latter stages of the CL but he's had some brilliant sides himself and that's a fairly awful record for someone who is often descirbed as one of the greatest (big game) managers ever. I posted on here when the draw against Liverpool was announced about how we'd struggle if Jose did his usual SF approach - an extreme fear of conceding that results in a lack of attacking ambition and ironically less defensive stability. I didn't actually think he would do that against this Liverpool side in the Capital One Cup but I really shouldn't be shocked by his tactics anymore.

sure, mate.

Reaching 8 UCL SF is something every other manager have in their resume... in addition to three titles... I'd say let's get rid of this loser right now.

Btw, I haven't read how Barcelona completely outplayed Atletico a couple of weeks ago and how they scrapped a win this weekend against a team near the relegation zone in SPAIN with a robbed penalty. could you analyze those and Simeone's job on both occasions please, or link me to where you already wrote your thoughts about it if you already did?

[The Chels 2,502]

sure, mate. Reaching 8 UCL SF is something every other manager have in their resume... in addition to three titles... I'd say let's get rid of this loser right now.

Did I say that? Nope. I said losing 6 of those 8 is a bad record for Jose's standards and there is, in my opinion at least, a clear reason why he consistently fails at that stage apart from the excuse of 'oh there's lots of good teams at that stage and Jose's always had the worse team'.

[Barbara 15,149]

Did I say that? Nope. I said losing 6 of those 8 is a bad record for Jose's standards and there is, in my opinion at least, a clear reason why he consistent fails at that stage apart from the excuse of 'oh there's lots of good teams at that stage and Jose always has the worse team'.

I edited my post and am waiting for your analysis about the best manager in the world's work on those two matches...

the excuse isn't that the other teams are better, but that at this stage anything can happen like Chelsea beating Barcelona in the Camp Nou managed by Roberto bloody di Matteo - tactics experts.

[The Chels 2,502]

Btw, I haven't read how Barcelona completely outplayed Atletico a couple of weeks ago and how they scrapped a win this weekend against a team near the relegation zone in SPAIN with a robbed penalty. could you analyze those and Simeone's job on both occasions please, or link me to where you already wrote your thoughts about it if you already did?

Barcelona at the Nou Camp when at their best are unplayable (yet didn't defeat Atletico the whole of last season). Jose would of course know all about that. Liverpool and Tottenham, who we made to look like world beaters, are nowhere near that standard and would never dominate Atletico like they did us. You're going to moan about Atletico's playing style after they had the core of their squad ripped out? The fact they're still competing is unbelievable. I'd like (not) to see us cope with losing 3 of our best players and having to rely on the likes of Torres! If you expect Simeone to be playing brilliant football every week while competing on that budget with Barca/Real then there's not much to say. Is it unreasonable to expect Jose to have this side not be so defensively vulnerable and offensively poor against big teams? I don't think so.

the excuse isn't that the other teams are better, but that at this stage anything can happen like Chelsea beating Barcelona in the Camp Nou managed by Roberto bloody di Matteo - tactics experts.

We were clearly outplayed in that tie. Could you let me know of an example when Mourinho's side clearly dominated the tie, missed chance after chance and were extremely unlucky not to go through to the final? At least that way we can say Mourinho's poor CL SFs record is down to bad luck rather than poor tactics. Any idea?

[kellzfresh 7,229]

@thechels

What makes athletico better is because they also hold possession under pressure in big games, that's our real weakness and not pressing like you think. If we improve our possession play to conserve energy and relieve pressure we would be even better in the big games. The time they tried to sit back totally, they lost the Champions League final. So their defense isn't as impenetrable as you think.

[The Chels 2,502]

@thechels

What makes athletico better is because they also hold possession under pressure in big games, that's our real weakness and not pressing like you think. If we improve our possession play to conserve energy and relieve pressure we would be even better in the big games. The time they tried to sit back totally, they lost the Champions League final. So their defense isn't as impenetrable as you think.

The end of the CL final is not a good example to use of Atletico defending. How often do they defend so deep with no pressing? Hardly ever. They had absolutely no outlet with their 2 best offensive players, Turan and Costa, injured. Luis was also just taken off injured, they only had 2 subs to use after the early Costa one, and they were obviously tired from a long season and a title-decider against Barcelona the week before while Real Madrid were able to rest all their best players.

To play like that was not their intention. Their final La Liga game with Barca - they could have played for the draw but went out to attack even at 1-1. Against us at HT it was 1-1 and they could have just sat back but they went for the kill. You cannot accuse them of actively choosing to sit back at the complete expense of attack like you can with Jose. Also where do you think their clever 1-2s and ability to hold the ball against the big teams (e.g. against us at Stamford Bridge or their last game against Real) comes from? Simeone of course. Those players are not better footballers than the ones in our team.

[LAM09 7,069]

Some of the decisions he has made this season have baffled me.

[Barbara 15,149]

Barcelona at the Nou Camp when at their best are unplayable (yet didn't defeat Atletico the whole of last season). Jose would of course know all about that. Liverpool and Tottenham, who we made to look like world beaters, are nowhere near that standard and would never dominate Atletico like they did us. You're going to moan about Atletico's playing style after they had the core of their squad ripped out? The fact they're still competing is unbelievable. I'd like (not) to see us cope with losing 3 of our best players and having to rely on the likes of Torres! If you expect Simeone to be playing brilliant football every week while competing on that budget with Barca/Real then there's not much to say. Is it unreasonable to expect Jose to have this side not be so defensively vulnerable and offensively poor against big teams? I don't think so.

We were clearly outplayed in that tie. Could you let me know of an example when Mourinho's side clearly dominated the tie, missed chance after chance and were extremely unlucky not to go through to the final? At least that way we can say Mourinho's poor CL SFs record is down to bad luck rather than poor tactics. Any idea?

You didn't analyze anything - exactly as I expected.

You made excuses - it's been a long time this Barcelona have been unplayable. Simeone could have turned this around in the break if he's this wonder, but he couldn't.

If three players leave the team and they can't beat a relegation zone side without a robbed penalty maybe they should sell the rest as well as there isn't much they can aim in a season.

My point isn't to discredit Simeone or Atleti is to make you realize sometimes managers don't have all the answers, players have bad days and some things just don't work out

We - the father of all wasteful teams - have in many occasions dominated and didn't win - regardless if in a tie or not. That's the point, for others - where the grass is always greener - there are tons of excuses and José became the one trick pony that can't get passed SF because he's a coward.

And that's coming from someone that is far from happy with José lately, but as usual, this forum is overly harsh in the criticism. There isn't middle ground or common sense. It's either the best thing since sliced bread or the player(s), manager aren't good enough.

Maybe instead of signing new players and managers, some people should sign a new club and go support Bayern, Barça, Atletico... it's not like they're English teams, so I don't even consider it cheating or betrayal.

[The Chels 2,502]

You didn't analyze anything - exactly as I expected. You made excuses - it's been a long time this Barcelona have been unplayable. Simeone could have turned this around in the break if he's this wonder, but he couldn't. If three players leave the team and they can't beat a relegation zone side without a robbed penalty maybe they should sell the rest as well as there isn't much they can aim in a season. My point isn't to discredit Simeone or Atleti is to make you realize sometimes managers don't have all the answers, players have bad days and some things just don't work out

My analysis is that they didn't have their best game going forward but made sure they would not concede and inevitably won. Granada has 5 shots on goal, 2 on target. On the same weekend we were completely dominated by Newcastle in the first half while also having a poor game going forward. We conceded 11 shots, 5 on target and they hit the woodwork a couple of times too. With regard to the bolded bit, need need I remind you of the game against QPR and how we couldn't beat them but for a penalty - should we too sell our entire team then considering QPR have an atrocious away record? We don't even have the excuse of not having WC players or losing our best players.

And believe me Simeone turns bad Atletico performances around at half time a hell of a lot. The number of goals they score at the start of the second half is amazing. Just see their recent second half performances away to Athletic Bilbao or Real Madrid miweek. They were also being completely dominated by Barcelona until the second half where they were very close to 2-2 if Mandzukic could actually pass. How often does Mourinho change things significantly at half time when we're playing poorly away from home? Cty away? Nope. Newcastle/Sunderland away? Nope. Tottenham away? Nope. Liverpool yesterday? Nope.

Managers don't have all the answers, obviously. I accept that Mourinho will make mistakes but when it's repeated and avoidable ones (requires more courage and better tactical work on pressing) then it does get very frustrating. And I don't know why you feel the need to slate Simeone in any way you can when the point is that he uses more balanced and proactive defensive tactics than Mourinho. If you think Atletico having a bad first-half away to a Barcelona side with Messi, Suarez and Neymar all playing brilliantly is comparable to Chelsea being dominated by Tottenham and Pool then we should probably end this discussion here.

[Tomo 21,751]

He's won 2 out of 8 CL SFs in his career. Yes there are plenty of good teams in the latter stages of the CL but he's had some brilliant sides himself and that's a fairly awful record for someone who is often descirbed as one of the greatest (big game) managers ever. I posted on here when the draw against Liverpool was announced about how we'd struggle if Jose did his usual SF approach - an extreme fear of conceding that results in a lack of attacking ambition and ironically less defensive stability. I didn't actually think he would do that against this Liverpool side in the Capital One Cup but I really shouldn't be shocked by his tactics anymore.

SAF has also got 8 semi finals with two wins (both a lot more fortunate than Mous).

Sorry Fergie the knighthood was a mistake, it was suppose to be McLeish.

[The Chels 2,502]

SAF has also got 8 semi finals with two wins (both a lot more fortunate than Mous).

Sorry Fergie the knighthood was a mistake, it was suppose to be McLeish.

He's won 3/7 CL SFs. I'm not at all saying that Mourinho is a bad manager. I'm saying that he has an overly negative approach towards certain big games, particularly SFs (and also that he hasn't sorted out our issues with pressing and compactness). Can a manager's flaws not be pointed out without his apologists resorting to patronising and sarcastic posts?