The Mourinho Thread

[OhForAGreavsie 6,089]

Sorry, but even Mourinho knows that winning the PL these days is nothing special. It won't reinforce his believes. Only winning CL will. That , and only that will make him fill special again. And rant about refs a bit less.

All day, every day, till the end of time, Premier League over Champions' League. Nowhere even near close. The odd Premier League title and hopefully an FA Cup here or there is the stuff of dreams for me. The Champions' League's main purpose is to keep the cash coming in. Enjoyed winning it, would love to win it again but, for me, it's a competition that needs to know its place.

[Victor Von Doom 258]

People complaining abt out style of play. Why?

Said style of play has us 6 pts clear w/ a game in hand & a lg cup

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I'll take the PL in any state over the CL. The best judgement for a team is ALWAYS the league. The best team in it winning the CL is the exception, while the best team in the league almost always wins it.

[Beigl 1,387]

I'll take the PL in any state over the CL. The best judgement for a team is ALWAYS the league. The best team in it winning the CL is the exception, while the best team in the league almost always wins it.

Thats not true. Since 2006 only 2 two underdogs won the Champions League. Us in 2012 and Inter in 2010, though thats debatable, because they had a really good team+ superior tactics.

In the other cases the best team of europe always won the UCL. Like Madrid and Bayern in recent years.

I hope we win the league,but I wouldn't be as statisfied as in 2010. Back then winning the Premier League was a big achievement,because you had to compete against several world class teams. This isn't the case anymore, in fact the BPL is a shadow of its former self and got overtaken by La Liga.

Lets not pretend we won the best and hardest league in the world, because we are that good.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

It will take something drastic like an abramovich intervention, giving him a mandate to play the sort of football that is befitting a team of our status and resources. And even then, im honestly not sure jose is capable of it. Some People fail to realise that any idiot can play/coach disjointed,poorly rehearsed, lacklustre gungho football but only select few managers are actually capable of coaching well cordinated, precise,creative attacking football consistently and then have the conviction to stick to it and perfect it.

Even if jose wins the champions league and is given a mandate to change his approach, im not so sure he's capable of going toe to toe with the big teams in the big games playing high quality attacking football

And even if by surprise, he's able to deliver such football, the moment it goes wrong or appears to not be going according to plan his natural instinct will kick in and he will revert to his comfort zone anyway. Either way, the sort of football people are demanding isn't going to happen under jose.

What a load of shite.

Unless next season I am proven wrong, the only reason why we don't play such flowing football is because the players in some positions are inadequate for what we need, at least now.

For example, we need a high line to play offensive football, and against bigger sides that press us that becomes a problem, which is why we retreat, imo. Our youngest lineup possible is passable but firstly he never plays Azpi and Luis together, and Ivanovic causes severe weaknesses on our defence, especially when it's Cahill who is exposed. (Azpi-Zouma-Terry-Luis) and to fix this we need a new fullback to act as second choice to Azpi/Luis and a fast centre back to pair with Zouma against such sides.

Another is that Matic is being left with too much work to do in midfield, I noticed that only when Oscar came on in our last match in a 4-3-3 that midfield stopped getting raped... but I think that only Koke or Pogba could improve this area of midfield, but with a high line this would have the effect of taking pressure off the mid.

[edetarod 2,155]

What a load of shite.

Unless next season I am proven wrong, the only reason why we don't play such flowing football is because the players in some positions are inadequate for what we need, at least now.

For example, we need a high line to play offensive football, and against bigger sides that press us that becomes a problem, which is why we retreat, imo. Our youngest lineup possible is passable but firstly he never plays Azpi and Luis together, and Ivanovic causes severe weaknesses on our defence, especially when it's Cahill who is exposed. (Azpi-Zouma-Terry-Luis) and to fix this we need a new fullback to act as second choice to Azpi/Luis and a fast centre back to pair with Zouma against such sides.

Another is that Matic is being left with too much work to do in midfield, I noticed that only when Oscar came on in our last match in a 4-3-3 that midfield stopped getting raped... but I think that only Koke or Pogba could improve this area of midfield, but with a high line this would have the effect of taking pressure off the mid.

well, isn't that Mourinho's fault

he's had 4 windows now to shape his squad

[Rom2013 446]

well, isn't that Mourinho's fault

he's had 4 windows now to shape his squad

Well,,, this team was an absolute disgrace 4 windows ago...

It's really funny all that talk about winning the Premiere it's not that good, or we need to improve if we want to win the CHampions... but the reality is that this team had no quality at all, the person that built the team did an awful job, and Chelsea was fighting for a CHampions League spot at that time (we were just like Arsenal).

By the way without Mourinho the titles won and the level of game in the last 6 years was really bad also. It's really cool to look at the future... 2 years ago you were thanking Benitez because he won a minor title and he could do an Arsenal on League.

If United continues to spend 200M£ without selling players every season you need to start asking the club to spend something like that on the team (and not 30M£ per season like in the last 2) because it's imposible to fight regularly with a team that spends 5 or 6 times the money you are spending.

[lionsden 4,689]

What a load of shite.

Unless next season I am proven wrong, the only reason why we don't play such flowing football is because the players in some positions are inadequate for what we need, at least now.

For example, we need a high line to play offensive football, and against bigger sides that press us that becomes a problem, which is why we retreat, imo. Our youngest lineup possible is passable but firstly he never plays Azpi and Luis together, and Ivanovic causes severe weaknesses on our defence, especially when it's Cahill who is exposed. (Azpi-Zouma-Terry-Luis) and to fix this we need a new fullback to act as second choice to Azpi/Luis and a fast centre back to pair with Zouma against such sides.

Another is that Matic is being left with too much work to do in midfield, I noticed that only when Oscar came on in our last match in a 4-3-3 that midfield stopped getting raped... but I think that only Koke or Pogba could improve this area of midfield, but with a high line this would have the effect of taking pressure off the mid.

First off it's the managers responsibility and duty to recognise and fix the inadequacies of his team and he's had two full seasons to do so that's after making empty and boastful promises of seeking to play more attacking football. He even said we have no other choice but to play attacking football due to the type and profile of players we have which contradicts your point and his actions so far.

Now how did riijkard and guardiola barca manage to play highline and free flowing football with puyol (jt lite) as the main CB. Mertasacker and koscienly are no quicker or more suitable to playing highline than jt and cahill/zouma. Fernando hiero and riofor madrid and utd respectively werent exactly pacy either. The way I see it, your argument is just a load of excuses.

our squad is sufficient enough to play better football than we have done thos season and if jose was a manager capable of playing such football, he would have found a way

[Amblève. 4,995]

People complaining abt out style of play. Why?

Said style of play has us 6 pts clear w/ a game in hand & a lg cup

Because the club has invested enough money to guarantee a brand of football that shouldn't rely on luck and on the class of a single player in Hazard week in, week out.

[Rom2013 446]

Because the club has invested enough money to guarantee a brand of football that shouldn't rely on luck and on the class of a single player in Hazard week in, week out.

Where is that money in Mourinho era? Because we spent less money than Manchester United, Manchester City and Arsenal in the last 2 seasons (the difference between what we bought and our sells)... and we are not only the team with the best evolution but also the best team in the country.

You can moan what you want, but this is the reality.

[Amblève. 4,995]

Where is that money in Mourinho era? Because we spent less money than Manchester United, Manchester City and Arsenal in the last 2 seasons (the difference between what we bought and our sells)... and we are not only the team with the best evolution but also the best team in the country.

You can moan what you want, but this is the reality.

Why do only the last 2 seasons matter? Excuse me Mourinho was given a full squad instead of only 2 or 3 players. The mere reason we haven't spent much money during Mou's second time here is because we have had good enough players already in the team before Mou arrived that we then sold to make money and room for "Mou players".

[zolayes 14,489]

It will take something drastic like an abramovich intervention, giving him a mandate to play the sort of football that is befitting a team of our status and resources. And even then, im honestly not sure jose is capable of it. Some People fail to realise that any idiot can play/coach disjointed,poorly rehearsed, lacklustre gungho football but only select few managers are actually capable of coaching well cordinated, precise,creative attacking football consistently and then have the conviction to stick to it and perfect it.

Even if jose wins the champions league and is given a mandate to change his approach, im not so sure he's capable of going toe to toe with the big teams in the big games playing high quality attacking football

And even if by surprise, he's able to deliver such football, the moment it goes wrong or appears to not be going according to plan his natural instinct will kick in and he will revert to his comfort zone anyway. Either way, the sort of football people are demanding isn't going to happen under jose.

SAD but true I think

[Rom2013 446]

Why do only the last 2 seasons matter? Excuse me Mourinho was given a full squad instead of only 2 or 3 players. The mere reason we haven't spent much money during Mou's second time here is because we have had good enough players already in the team before Mou arrived that we then sold to make money and room for "Mou players".

By good enough players you mean a team that was a complete disgrace and couldn't win or play properly against anyone, right?

The Arsenal of that time, but not only a team that couldn't compete it was also a team that played horribly.

And by the way, we needed to sell polayers not only because the team was really bad, but also because the club wouldn't pass the FFP without selling players.

The club hadn't the financial balance, the financial power, we had an horrible team that was fighting for nothing. Today you have the best team in the country spending for example less 200M£ in this time than Manchester United.

If you had another Benitez (or other coaches) you would be here with Mata, Luiz, and celebrating the CHampions League spot and saying how great is the evolution of this team... maybe next season we could fight for something.

[Tomo 21,751]

Why do only the last 2 seasons matter? Excuse me Mourinho was given a full squad instead of only 2 or 3 players. The mere reason we haven't spent much money during Mou's second time here is because we have had good enough players already in the team before Mou arrived that we then sold to make money and room for "Mou players".

We had an absolute unbalanced mess off a squad when Mou returned, no top class CM, no top class striker, Terry looking like he was past it, attacking midfield we had Mata who was great but since has been proved he isn't top top bracket, Hazard who is but was really young infact bar Cech we had not one top bracket player anywhere near the prime, infact the more I look back at that squad the more I think Rafa performed a minor miracle getting us 3rd and EL.

Jose with a £36m net spend has turned that unbalanced mess (£9m per transfer window for perspective) into genuine title contenders, the fact that there is a general reluctance to credit him for that is quite frankly mind blowing.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,089]

First off it's the managers responsibility and duty to recognise and fix the inadequacies of his team and he's had two full seasons to do so that's after making empty and boastful promises of seeking to play more attacking football. He even said we have no other choice but to play attacking football due to the type and profile of players we have which contradicts your point and his actions so far.

Now how did riijkard and guardiola barca manage to play highline and free flowing football with puyol (jt lite) as the main CB. Mertasacker and koscienly are no quicker or more suitable to playing highline than jt and cahill/zouma. Fernando hiero and riofor madrid and utd respectively werent exactly pacy either. The way I see it, your argument is just a load of excuses.

our squad is sufficient enough to play better football than we have done thos season and if jose was a manager capable of playing such football, he would have found a way

I think you are wrong about this. Badly wrong, if you'll forgive me for saying so.

Firstly, although it hardly needs saying, let's put an obvious truth front and centre of the discussion. It's not just a matter of playing an attack minded, high pressing, high line, game. Any team and any manager can do that whenever they want. Arsenal, with a collection of highly technical players, did exactly that at Stamford Bridge, Anfield and The Etihad last season. 17-4. Great work Arsene. The trick of course is to be successful playing that way. It's a heck of a trick however and it requires very good players but more on that in a moment.

I hope I'm not putting words into anyone's mouth when I say that Wenger is not alone, we at Chelsea also crave beautiful, attacking football. I have no argument with you about that but I judge the current squad as being unable to deliver that while also winning enough matches. There were no Arsenal fans crowing about pretty football after those three humiliations last season, and who can blame them? We all want beautiful wins but we'll all accept ugly ones in preference to ugly defeats.

I think the key difference between you and me is that, while you've made it clear that you think our squad can win by playing the way you describe, I do not. Barcelona can but they would not even consider offering a squad place to any of Willian, Oscar, Costa, Cuadrado, Ramires, Mikel or Ivanovic. Players who, between them, will make hundreds of appearances for us this season. Some of our other outfield players might be considered for squad places in Barcelona but I doubt any, not even Eden, would be first choice. Certainly not Cesc for example.

Barcelona have been the ultimate example of how good a pressing team can be but the first lesson to take from their example is the quality of players required to succeed that way. Forget their defenders, that's not how Barca defend. They recover the ball high and they are exceptionally good at retaining it once they have. That's because they have a critical mass of players who can receive a pass, even a bad one, in tight situations and do something positive with it. We don't.

I think it is unrealistic of you to expect that the appalling squad of June 2013 can have been completely overhauled in 21 months. You may disagree but my own opinion in 2013 was that we were 8 quality players short of what was required to make Chelsea the side we'd all like them to be. If that number was right, and I think it was, it meant finding a lot of players with the right quality, the right age, the right work permit qualifications, the right FFP costs, and the right availability to Chelsea.

That kind of recruitment is very difficult but you are right to say that it should not be beyond a club with our resources. Thing is, a club with our resources should never have been in the mess Jose inherited on his return. He has my confidence that he'll fix the mess but if we are still in the same position four transfer windows from now things will be different. For now however, I believe that realistic progress is being made.

[The Chels 2,502]

Unless next season I am proven wrong, the only reason why we don't play such flowing football is because the players in some positions are inadequate for what we need, at least now. For example, we need a high line to play offensive football, and against bigger sides that press us that becomes a problem, which is why we retreat, imo. Our youngest lineup possible is passable but firstly he never plays Azpi and Luis together, and Ivanovic causes severe weaknesses on our defence, especially when it's Cahill who is exposed. (Azpi-Zouma-Terry-Luis) and to fix this we need a new fullback to act as second choice to Azpi/Luis and a fast centre back to pair with Zouma against such sides.

We have within our squad the ability to change the defence such that we are capable of playing a more proactive defensive game (as you say: Azpi, Zouma, Terry, Luis) but Jose hasn't suggested that he is interested in making these changes. If he did then we'd be lining up with more mobile defenders who are more compatible with a high-intensity pressing game but ultimately he has shown clear preference to the current defence even though it is very limiting in the big games especially, perhaps because it gives him an excuse to play the reactive, passive football he craves.

Barcelona have been the ultimate example of how good a pressing team can be but the first lesson to take from their example is the quality of players required to succeed that way. Forget their defenders, that's not how Barca defend. They recover the ball high and they are exceptionally good at retaining it once they have. That's because they have a critical mass of players who can receive a pass, even a bad one, in tight situations and do something positive with it. We don't.

Sure Barcelona are a team with technically excellent players all-round but you don't need that to play a pressing game successfully as the likes of Leverkusen and Atletico have shown.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

I think we can all agree Jose has been over-conservative in a lot of our big matches this season. If we manage to win the league,hopefully a lot of the pressure will be off his shoulders. I hope he will know exactly what to do in the summer transfer window to increase the team's flexibility in terms of playing different styles at different stages of the game.

Koke - Will allow us to keep the ball and also have an eye for goal when the team is ahead. Him being a very complete player gives us a huge advantage in these situations.

Varane - Cahill has been a disgrace this season and loses it when the slightest things go against him. Varane will be our present and our future alongside Zouma.

Kondogbia - We really can't expect Fabregas to be battling it out in midfield. If the team is under huge pressure and we need more defensive qualities on the pitch, Kondogbia is our answer. Positionally very good unlike Ramires and Mikel and attacking wise he good as well. Other option: Khedira.

Icardi/Dybala - I feel the need for another striker because Drogba doesn't seem to cut it anymore. Most of top teams have more than 1 world class strikere and although these two are not world class, they have a huge potential to be so. Also I really can't find a striker who is willing to sit on the bench.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,089]

We have within our squad the ability to change the defence such that we are capable of playing a more proactive defensive game (as you say: Azpi, Zouma, Terry, Luis) but Jose hasn't suggested that he is interested in making these changes. If he did then we'd be lining up with more mobile defenders who are more compatible with a high-intensity pressing game but ultimately he has shown clear preference to the current defence even though it is very limiting in the big games especially, perhaps because it gives him an excuse to play the reactive football he craves.

Sure Barcelona are a team with technically excellent players all-round but you don't need that to play a pressing game successfully as the likes of Leverkusen and Atletico have shown.

Atleti are an excellent team, packed with outstanding players. Leverkausen have won what since 2002 and what in the ten years before that?

I suppose the word successfully can be defined in different ways. At Chelsea I think it defines winning trophies. It's up to Bayer fans and officials to decide what success means to them.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Some excellent points raised here - without bashing and insults - it's like the old TC

So I'm as frustrated as anybody with the team - we started the season playing expansive attacking football and sure there was a need to tighten defensively (5-3 Everton) - but it seems that we have tightened too much and the emphasis is massively skewed to defence instead of attack

Now - I am delighted we are consistently winning and believe the mental aspect of the game is growing within our team, plenty of results this year have gone for us, wheras previously we would have lost, or drew.

The fact that we assembled a great team on a modest budget, whilst complying with FFP is to be applauded, however it's clear to see our small stadium is REALLY punishing us compared to the teams around us in the EPL and massively restricting us in Europe. Therefore, until that is addressed it's unlikely we will be able to spend at the rate of UTD.

Our squad is much better now - this is the result of managerial stability (yes 2 seasons ) - it's given time to clear out the dead wood and try to shape a team for the future. I do expect at least 1-2 marquee signings in the summer.

However - it still concerns me that we had a blue-print for free flowing, attacking football and we effectively ripped it up - instead of tweaking it. But without a crystal ball we will never know.

Winning the EPL is all that counts and it doesn't matter whether it's the best league or not - we simply DO need to win it!

So despite my outbursts on the frustrations of Mou as a Manager and the under performance (IMHO) of the team - if we lift the EPL, I will be delighted and will consider the season a success. However, I would expect a big attacking improvement come August.

My final concern is that of the players - it's strange that Oscar a player developing nicely the past two seasons has stalled so much, is this a result of the negative tactics or is it vice-versa - the poor performances of not just Oscar, but other players as well - have forced Mourinho into the ultra conservative approach? I guess that's my million dollar question - to which I'm genuinely struggling to find an answer...

[The Chels 2,502]

Atleti are an excellent team, packed with outstanding players. Leverkausen have won what since 2002 and what in the ten years before that?

I suppose the word successfully can be defined in different ways. At Chelsea I think it defines winning trophies. It's up to Bayer fans and officials to decide what success means to them.

Atleti is a team packed with outstanding players but we aren't? I don't buy the excuse that a team needs everyone to be technically good à la Barcelona to play a pressing game. It's simply not true. If you watched the recent Atleti-Leverkusen games then you'll have noticed that both teams are excellent at pressing the opposition even though they are not so good at being pressed themselves (since they are not technically outstanding). You argue that because the likes of Willian, Oscar, Costa, Ramires, etc. wouldn't get in the Barca squad, that somehow justifies Jose's excessively passive and reactive big-game approach. I can't agree with that.