The Mourinho Thread

[The Skipper 20,609]

Those aren't rumours, he said it himself in post-match interview.

Which solidifies my thoughts even more.

[It's too big 625]

Mourinho gave the board his opinion on the players in April, but he couldn't have predicted how quickly Ivanovic, Fabregas and Terry's form would dissipate.

[Stats 7,230]

Just saying I would have absolutely no regret or hate towards him if we end the season 2nd or 3rd without any trophy, but under condition that the likes of Baba, Kenedy, Rlc, Zouma get alot of play time and improve noticably.

I would love that. We won PL last year, I would sacrifice one year to develop some of our young players. It would be great, especialy if Ruben develops well.

But if we end season trophyless, and Mou plays Iva ahead of Baba, Ramires and Mikel over Rlc, Falcao over Remy, and partly Willian over Kenedy, plus there is absolutely no sign of improvement, I will go nuts.

I would seriously consider releasing Mou, despite for everything he has done.

All that said, I think we will be average in PL (better say city too good) but we will win CL. Regardless of how shit we play now, I feel we have all the chances and talent to completely focus on CL and win it.

You can't seriously be insisting that Kenedy plays over the likes of Willian just based on the one came you saw of him? When we played Barca in pre-season, a lot of members were criticizing him IIRC and now he has a little decent cameo against Palace and people assume he should be one of the first names on the team sheet. I would rather wait until our COC game against Walsall to give him a start. Apart from that I would rather see him as a impact player from the bench.

[manpe 10,861]

Mourinho gave the board his opinion on the players in April, but he couldn't have predicted how quickly Ivanovic, Fabregas and Terry's form would dissipate.

Yes, he could have and probably did. I literally don't remember any games where Ivanovic didn't play, being shot is a natural outcome for a slow and old CB being forced to run up and down the field every second day. He was shit already in the second half of the season, alarm bells should have been ringing by April. Fabregas the same, you can't expect him to be in mesmerizing form all the time while being overplayed - cover is needed, which we don't have. Terry, afaik, played every single PL minute last season, which is crazy for an oldie like him. People expecting him to be at his best until his 40s need a reality check, and Jose has had that considering he openly admitted seeking for a long-term replacement.

Tbf the players seem still fatigued either physically, mentally or both from last season. What is our fitness team doing?

[Reddish-Blue 2,701]

You can't seriously be insisting that Kenedy plays over the likes of Willian just based on the one came you saw of him? When we played Barca in pre-season, a lot of members were criticizing him IIRC and now he has a little decent cameo against Palace and people assume he should be one of the first names on the team sheet. I would rather wait until our COC game against Walsall to give him a start. Apart from that I would rather see him as a impact player from the bench.

Willian runs hard for the team, but his end product and finishing ability for a CAM/RAM is well below average.

I'm not suggesting that we start using Kenedy...but I would love to see Mourinho change things up and try playing Remy & Costa together, or Falcao & Costa together...it's just frustrating to see the same attack fail to create chances game after game...

[Reddish-Blue 2,701]

Yes, he could have and probably did. I literally don't remember any games where Ivanovic didn't play, being shot is a natural outcome for a slow and old CB being forced to run up and down the field every second day. He was shit already in the second half of the season, alarm bells should have been ringing by April. Fabregas the same, you can't expect him to be in mesmerizing form all the time while being overplayed - cover is needed, which we don't have. Terry, afaik, played every single PL minute last season, which is crazy for an oldie like him. People expecting him to be at his best until his 40s need a reality check, and Jose has had that considering he openly admitted seeking for a long-term replacement.

Tbf the players seem still fatigued either physically, mentally or both from last season. What is our fitness team doing?

Not sure if it's fatigue but the players aren't as determined/ "hungry" as they were last season. I saw a number of occasions against Crystal Palace, where certain players looked content to pass it around, rather than force the issue and test the away team's defense.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Honestly, the more I think about it the more I think that the board have actually tied Jose's hands here. With the rumours of him giving the board exactly what we needed as a team way back in April, and then us trying to buy players at a last ditch attempt because results weren't going our way... It's quite disturbing. The quite random signing of Michael Hector done it for me.

Would we have signed Pedro if we had a good start to the season? I actually don't think so, which is very worrying. Time will tell.

If they tied Jose's hands, how come we were after a 21 year old CB "worth" 30m pounds since July?

And if we showed interest in Pogba since the beginning of the summer (as reported, if anyone forgot), Mourinho thought we need some kind of reinforcement in midfield.

Did the board told him "No, you cant sell Mikel and get a replacement"? i very much doubt it.

We could have gone for a different CB who isnt inferior to Stones + CM who's better than Mikel/Ramires - in the region of those 30m pounds, maybe 40m max.

I am sure that something changed since our bad start with all those late bidding, and im sure the board wasnt the most willing to spend the all summer until this last week, but i think that something was lacking with Mourinho's targets list as well. No real plan if the 1st targets for CB and CM cant come. If Everton are difficult, try different CBs at the same time, its not rocket science.

When people say the market was awful, it sounds like something very big, but in reality it isnt - we only needed a good CB and a CM to make this summer from "awful" to "very good". Its little details and with slightly better desicions it would have happend.

Thats why i think that the first one at fault is Mourinho. If we got that CM and sold Mikel we'd be talking very differently about this summer. IMO he just didnt see the need in this area, Mikel and Ramires are fine for him. Fact is that in July-Augost, i dont recall exactly, Mikel was interviewed saying Jose wants him to stay and transfer talk is not true.

[Oscar 441]

Another good option for Jose would be the current inter team.

Medel-kongdobia-melo are ideal for jose. Athletic/strong cbs in miranda and juan.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

Mourinho gave the board his opinion on the players in April, but he couldn't have predicted how quickly Ivanovic, Fabregas and Terry's form would dissipate.

Was it really quickly?

Ivanovic had problems at many times last season.

Terry is in his mid 30's

Fabregas has been shit, for the most part, all of 2015.

The writing was definitely on the wall.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

Just saying I would have absolutely no regret or hate towards him if we end the season 2nd or 3rd without any trophy, but under condition that the likes of Baba, Kenedy, Rlc, Zouma get alot of play time and improve noticably.

I would love that. We won PL last year, I would sacrifice one year to develop some of our young players. It would be great, especialy if Ruben develops well.

But if we end season trophyless, and Mou plays Iva ahead of Baba, Ramires and Mikel over Rlc, Falcao over Remy, and partly Willian over Kenedy, plus there is absolutely no sign of improvement, I will go nuts.

I would seriously consider releasing Mou, despite for everything he has done.

All that said, I think we will be average in PL (better say city too good) but we will win CL. Regardless of how shit we play now, I feel we have all the chances and talent to completely focus on CL and win it.

I agree and hope that club don't think about such stupid things like sacking Jose after what they did in the transfer window.

But you say that we have chance in the CL and do you really think that when we go into latter stages we will rely on younger players instead of bringing in Ivanovic, Ramires, Azpilicueta as a winger etc. ? I think that's exactly what would happen.

[J.F. 1,484]

Medel-kongdobia-melo are ideal for jose.

Mikel alone is more creative than those 3 players.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

We could have gone for a different CB who isnt inferior to Stones + CM who's better than Mikel/Ramires - in the region of those 30m pounds, maybe 40m max.

Miranda and Allan, both for 15m€ each ? I think of that kind of players.

Also you can see at Juventus, they were very clear that they want the number 10 and tried with Oscar, Isco, Goetze then Draxler eventually setting for Hernanes but they got their man because they really wanted a number 10.

Oh, look at Baba signing, there were many LB changing club this summer, Alex Sandro, Kurzawa, Coentrao etc. but Chelsea wasn't linked with any of them, they were only focusing on Baba Rahman, just like they didn't want a LB, they wanted Baba Rahman.

I think it's fair to say that we look for top quality young players and therefore we're limiting ourself to just a few names. We don't want a midfielder, we want Koke/Pogba. Very specific targets. And since they finally hasn't settled for cheaper alternative I think they're fairly confident of getting them eventually.

[Duppy Conqueror 1,588]

good point Blue Coloured Sky.

the 2 signings in the last 24 hours. the stop gap guys.they could be seen as panic buys but at that point if we had splashed big money,then we would either lose our true targets in the future or players like Zouma and say whoever out of our midfield.. RLC or another midfielder may make us change our mind on needing Pogba but Stones still remains a target..hopefully Everton have a shitty season.Martinez gets sacked or quits and we get Stones for a better price.i do think Martinez was the cock blocker..Kenwright is more a realist..even tho he made his money in show business.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Miranda and Allan, both for 15m€ each ? I think of that kind of players.

Also you can see at Juventus, they were very clear that they want the number 10 and tried with Oscar, Isco, Goetze then Draxler eventually setting for Hernanes but they got their man because they really wanted a number 10.

Oh, look at Baba signing, there were many LB changing club this summer, Alex Sandro, Kurzawa, Coentrao etc. but Chelsea wasn't linked with any of them, they were only focusing on Baba Rahman, just like they didn't want a LB, they wanted Baba Rahman.

I think it's fair to say that we look for top quality young players and therefore we're limiting ourself to just a few names. We don't want a midfielder, we want Koke/Pogba. Very specific targets. And since they finally hasn't settled for cheaper alternative I think they're fairly confident of getting them eventually.

Exactly! same happend with Stones, it didnt looked like we want a CB, we only wanted Stones. But in the final week we started to look for other CB, shame we didnt do the same with CM.

Maybe its because of the numbers in the squad? we had 3 CBs so Jose wanted the 4th one, and he already had enough CMs. Maybe thats the case.

Miranda and Allan would've been perfect stopgaps until we get that specific CB and CM.

Btw, "top quality young players" - thats what Rob Beasly said like a month ago, he said we only want those kind of players. Pedro is also a stopgap, and so is Djilobodji, but those are panic buys in the final 10 days.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Mourinho just needs a mixture of technical and mobile/athletic players.

Which means fast centerbacks,

fullbacks that can dribble past their man like maicon/marcelo,

box to box cm who can drive through the middle like essien/vidal/matuidi,

passers who can defend like Sneijder/modric,

one dribbling winger, and one who makes runs behind the defence to score.

And a technical striker with proper holdup play and aerial ability like drogba/Milito/benzema

I can agree with this description of a "perfect Mourinho side", but you could see a change in his views since he joined Real Madrid. He spent 3 seasons in Real and i dont think your description fits to the side he had there.

And im talking about the midfield. In Porto, Chelsea 04-07 and Inter he played 4-3-3, in Real Madrid and now in Chelsea he plays 4-2-3-1. And its not just the formation, its the actual midfield players, he went from having Lampard/Sneijder - central midfilders, to Ozil - actual #10 who cant tackle. Also Khedira is not a quality box to box, i always saw him as a german Ramires. In current Chelsea his midfield is a mess - Fabregas is obviously not the DLP he wished to have, he had to settle for it becasue we couldnt get anyone else. Because of that he uses Ramires in the big games. Oscar is the odd man, is he a #10? a "Lampard/Sneijder"? We cant really tell because Cesc-Matic pivot doesnt fit Oscar.

I think by changing from 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1 with 3 AMs, Jose tried to match his sides to the more attacking minded football we see today in Europe. He had to do it in Madrid to win the La Liga but also to please the fans.

In the last few years i heard him a few times saying "The formation i like in my teams is 4-2-3-1", something has changed. But him going after Pogba this summer might means he wanted to go back to 4-3-3.

Tbh, Jose's targets for the summer - Pogba, Pedro, Baba, Stones - would've made us a "perfect Mourinho side" for years if we got all of them. Maybe thats what the club wants, a side that would go for a decade with little changes.

And thats why they hesitate so much about getting stopgaps.

[cfcs most wanted 657]

Ronald Koeman likes this is the best

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I can agree with this description of a "perfect Mourinho side", but you could see a change in his views since he joined Real Madrid. He spent 3 seasons in Real and i dont think your description fits to the side he had there.

And im talking about the midfield. In Porto, Chelsea 04-07 and Inter he played 4-3-3, in Real Madrid and now in Chelsea he plays 4-2-3-1. And its not just the formation, its the actual midfield players, he went from having Lampard/Sneijder - central midfilders, to Ozil - actual #10 who cant tackle. Also Khedira is not a quality box to box, i always saw him as a german Ramires. In current Chelsea his midfield is a mess - Fabregas is obviously not the DLP he wished to have, he had to settle for it becasue we couldnt get anyone else. Because of that he uses Ramires in the big games. Oscar is the odd man, is he a #10? a "Lampard/Sneijder"? We cant really tell because Cesc-Matic pivot doesnt fit Oscar.

I think by changing from 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1 with 3 AMs, Jose tried to match his sides to the more attacking minded football we see today in Europe. He had to do it in Madrid to win the La Liga but also to please the fans.

In the last few years i heard him a few times saying "The formation i like in my teams is 4-2-3-1", something has changed. But him going after Pogba this summer might means he wanted to go back to 4-3-3.

Tbh, Jose's targets for the summer - Pogba, Pedro, Baba, Stones - would've made us a "perfect Mourinho side" for years if we got all of them. Maybe thats what the club wants, a side that would go for a decade with little changes.

The change that happened in Madrid did not really affect his team because they had mobile players and natural dribblers everywhere. In their starting line-up (ronaldo, dimaria, benzema, ozil, marcelo, modric) could all make things happen on their own while we just have hazard and pedro. (willian is too shy to use his abilities)

The holding ball under pressure was never a problem for them, they had so many players that could cope with pressure in the starting line-up but we on the other hand need hazard to play well or else.

Then they had fast, technical centerbacks of Ramos and pépé to cope with counterattacks.

Even if Mourinho goes back to 4-3-3 with our current squad, we're still too physically limited or unathletic enough to compare with any team he's ever managed.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

The change that happened in Madrid did not really affect his team because they had mobile players and natural dribblers everywhere. In their starting line-up (ronaldo, dimaria, benzema, ozil, marcelo, modric) could all make things happen on their own while we just have hazard and pedro. (willian is too shy to use his abilities)

The holding ball under pressure was never a problem for them, they had so many players that could cope with pressure in the starting line-up but we on the other hand need hazard to play well or else.

Then they had fast, technical centerbacks of Ramos and pépé to cope with counterattacks.

Even if Mourinho goes back to 4-3-3 with our current squad, we're still too physically limited or unathletic enough to compare with any team he's ever managed.

Modric wasnt a starter for him though, thats a big difference. And i dont think Ozil made things on his own, both him and Di Maria were very inconsistent. I never rated Mourinho's RM that much, i always thought its not the real deal, its almost.

It was a better and more balanced side than the one we have now though, i agree about that.

[lionsden 4,689]

The fact that most people are now only criticising mourinho when in reality the only difference between the second half of last season and now is the result, shows how result oriented some fans really are. My prediction is, once we get a couple of wins under our belt, the teams garbage performances and issue with the team will be overlooked and swept under the carpet as usual. As fans, We have the lowest expectation and standard of the "top teams" on Europe.

[Stingray 9,441]

The fact that most people are now only criticising mourinho when in reality the only difference between the second half of last season and now is the result, shows how result oriented some fans really are. My prediction is, once we get a couple of wins underbpir belt, the teams garbage performance and issue with the team will be overlooked and swept under the carpet as usual. As fans, We have the lowest expectation of the "top teams" on Europe.

Ah yes. We are indeed fickle, prone to short term enjoyment. Its why we like smoking or drinking, but in the long run we die from it. The keyword remains: what is our vision?

I still believe - even with Mou - we are doing the fire fighting strategy. We have no strategy, no vision. We only have (or had) a strategy to win silverware in the short run.

You called it long before, and I do believe you are right, mate.

Ps: you are a great poster. Plz continue.