The Mourinho Thread

[LAM09 7,062]

He knows how to set up a team to get the job done. It mightn't be pretty sometimes, but the result is what truly matters.

[Thor 2,718]

I'm stoked about the win, but some of you are over the top with praise.

"Set up perfectly" and "know how to win" are so over played... He set the team up the exact same way we've been playing recently. Overly defensively without much thought for penetration or attack, and on one of our few presses forward we did happen to score. Nothing too special about this performance apart from the points and opponent.

We're becoming a one trick pony. People know how we're going to set up before the game. I hope it is due to anxiousness and the desire of wanting to finally win again in the league again, and only that. That way, maybe we'll open up again and play some more free flowing football again, which is actually far more suited to us then sitting back with the players we have.

[iseah100 5,612]

Don't care. We won.

[Thor 2,718]

Don't care. We won.

That is good, and true, but some of us care about building a base, and general style of play which can eventually transform and build onto dominance.

Playing like this, will never prepare us for greater things, and push us to build on anything against far better teams than current Manchester United. I for one, want us to become a team in the same realm as Real, Bayern and Barca, where no matter where they go, they play their game. All those teams tweak things going to opposition home grounds at times, and at times playing slightly more defensively, etc, but not to the extent where they give up their identity.

We have all the tools and pieces to do that in the EPL. I never said that is something we should do in the Champions League yet, against Real, Bayern or Barca, but we should still have been able to do it against a team like PSG.

We had that going for us from 2005-2009ish. We went anywhere and played our game. At times, eased back, at times we pressed hard. Not close to the case now, yet you could argue our team is further in front in terms of balance and the gap between our opposition.

[DDA 9,941]

That is good, and true, but some of us care about building a base, and general style of play which can eventually transform and build onto dominance.

Playing like this, will never prepare us for greater things, and push us to build on anything against far better teams than current Manchester United. I for one, want us to become a team in the same realm as Real, Bayern and Barca, where no matter where they go, they play their game. All those teams tweak things going to opposition home grounds at times, and at times playing slightly more defensively, etc, but not to the extent where they give up their identity.

We have all the tools and pieces to do that in the EPL. I never said that is something we should do in the Champions League yet, against Real, Bayern or Barca, but we should still have been able to do it against a team like PSG.

We had that going for us from 2005-2009ish. We went anywhere and played our game. At times, eased back, at times we pressed hard. Not close to the case now, yet you could argue our team is further in front in terms of balance and the gap between our opposition.

Bravo

[OhForAGreavsie 6,077]

We had that going for us from 2005-2009ish. We went anywhere and played our game. At times, eased back, at times we pressed hard. Not close to the case now, yet you could argue our team is further in front in terms of balance and the gap between our opposition.

Revisionist and untrue, although fashionably revisionist I grant you. We were equally unloved in that period for the way we played as we are now. We were as frequently clunky then as we are now and, we are told, Jose was eventually sacked for it.

I've read several times in the last 12 hours that, with this squad, we should be doing better but I simply do not agree. In terms of playing proactive football, both Arsenal and Manchester City have better squads than we do. Fortunately we have a manager who is prepared to cut his cloth and knows how to do it. As a result, few neutrals will now bet on either of those clubs catching us.

We are not going to succeed consistently playing on the front foot when our squad is littered with players for whom basic continuity passing is a problem. It only takes one piece of miss-control, one wayward pass, one-second's worth of indecisiveness to turn potent, exciting football, into slow, ineffective aimlessness.

We have some building blocks around which a squad can be assembled to provide the kind of football we all want but there is work to do before we get there. Meanwhile Stamford Bridge rocked yesterday watching its team trying to win the league. I loved it, all of us who were there loved it. Sorry about that.

[mikeholiday 209]

I've read several times in the last 12 hours that, with this squad, we should be doing better but I simply do not agree. In terms of playing proactive football, both Arsenal and Manchester City have better squads

Totally agree. Out of the current squad, I think only Hazard will start over anybody ahead of the 2005 Chelsea squad. Perhaps over Duff, but im not even 100% sure.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

Agreed, Tomo with the bolded. And I do love and support Mourinho for what he has done, even if I might not show it as zealously as some other posters. I supported him and followed his career intently when he wasn't even a Chelsea manager for god's sake. I love the geezer. I have never known any Chelsea staff member who has defended this club in public more than Mourinho has. I appreciate Mourinho for what he will win for the club this season, a league and cup double. I'm sure I'll be celebrating like a madman when we win the league.. But I also know we are a big enough club to expect both titles and entertaining football. This team is more than strong enough to do it, that's a cheap excuse. The brutal fact is, there is no big team in Europe this sort of football. Remember, Jose was not the favourite or even the 2nd favourite to get the Chelsea job. A proper Chelsea legend not being the favourite? Ever asked yourself why? I can also run a list of other top European clubs who won't want Mourinho as manager because of primarily his team plays football but I won't go there.

I don't believe Mourinho is the right manager for this group of players. I'm sure that I will be vindicated sometime in the future, regardless of how unpopular it might make me on a Chelsea forum. I hope the man stays forever, but I know in my heart of hearts the football he knows best to play is not sustainable long-term for a big club. UNLESS, Mourinho gets an attacking coach to help with the side of football he is so clearly not strong at. He will be a better manager for it.

Right now, I'm sure he knows he hasn't been good enough in Europe because of his weakness. 4-1 to Dortmund (though they won the 2nd leg 2-0 tbf), 3-1 to Atletico Madrid and worst of all, losing to 10 man PSG at home. Anyone who wants to see the weaknesses in Mourinho as a manager, re-watch both legs carefully. It's not simply about signing world class players and relying on their individual brilliance to win matches. What about when they come up against other teams with equally good players? All of a sudden, what do we do?

Mourinho's Chelsea is not even that solid defensively anymore. In his first spell, when he set up his teams to defend, Petr barely had any saves to make. Now, the opposition are working Courtois left, right and centre, hitting the post and we are getting lucky breaks. The reason is the players we have now (Hazard's, Oscar's, Fabregas', Willian's) are being told to play a brand of football that is foreign to them and we've been found out vs Europe's elite.

Anyway, I don't want to labour my points any further and frustrate any other posters by bringing up uncomfortable issues and repeating the same stuff over and over. It's too easy to get along with everyone here by just being smiley-happy and going for the ride. I know it will make me unpopular, but I'm more concerned about the long term success of the club.

I want the love story between Chelsea and Jose Mourinho to be unbreakable and last for as long as he goes on to manage Portugal in his sixties or whatever, but Mourinho and by extension, Chelsea, needs a strong attacking coach. It's not about Marco Reus or Paul Pogba. I read rumours of Zola on twitter about a week ago, but i'm not sure he is up for that job.

What a great, well-headed post you just wrote here :clap:

Do you think that we'll ever come of our shell against good opponents ? We play with inferior team mentality not only now but during those 2 years. As you wrote, it's probably not about Reus or Pogba. We were in a very good form early in the season, playing well, players in top physical conditions, yet as soon as Man City game arrived Jose gave up football, tried to create a deadlock and even when we played against 10 men 1 goal up we still were retreated in our shells.

And now Jose as usually praises every player to death, calling them monsters, animals with ridiculous attitude to fight. Going forward that's for me indication of bad than positive thing. Even though we couldn't string 3 passes together, didn't create a second chance, were outplayed by Manchester United at home, having only 29% of possession and completed 400 (!!!) passes less than them he still seems as happy about this as ever. wtf. A few pages ago I posted his interview when he clearly said that "He wants to play football where people will know that this time is not about result but about quality of our game" yet he praises such a shit performance from quality point of view. That's not good indication for the future.

What is the indication however that again, he thrives with quick fix solutions and playing as an inferior team is his comfort zone through and through. And now we're going forward when we obligatory have to play with quality and aggressiveness, no matter who we play against. In 2016/17 we will have the turnover close to 550m€, the same as Real had in 2012/13. That's an obligation of open, dominant play. During those 2 years I simply don't get the conviction that something will change going forward, in let's say 2 years time, even when the team will be supposedly complete. There's every big chance that we always are going to play like this when we entertain a master race and have to take a big bow in front of them.

So far quick fixes are working, though I still don't know how we earned 30/39 points since January, the play is worth maybe slightly more than half of that (9 out of 10 seasons we would drop far many point but the title is ours just like the Champions League was in 2012).

But the ultimate goal will be Champions League and playing dominant football and up to today there's no indication we will impose ourself eventually. Jose has small team mentality just deep down there in his head I'm afraid unfortunately, it needs a big turn to change that. Van Gaal could play with Januzaj, McNair and Blackett and Jose couldn't even give a damn minute for Solanke. That's the indication he gives a damn worry of the future ? If there was no Jose in the next season then our new manager would have to literally start from ground zero, starting with very basic thing of learning those players how to press because Jose seems doesn't bother about it a one bit, yet it is basic thing, the start of every dominant play.

Like you said, those 2 season are no indication of long term project. 10 years ? You having a laugh, there's no way that those quick solutions are going to survive that long. We'll see how 3rd season will look like but eventually he has to start to build some platform here, right ?

[Styles 9,790]

I'm stoked about the win, but some of you are over the top with praise.

"Set up perfectly" and "know how to win" are so over played... He set the team up the exact same way we've been playing recently. Overly defensively without much thought for penetration or attack, and on one of our few presses forward we did happen to score. Nothing too special about this performance apart from the points and opponent.

We're becoming a one trick pony. People know how we're going to set up before the game. I hope it is due to anxiousness and the desire of wanting to finally win again in the league again, and only that. That way, maybe we'll open up again and play some more free flowing football again, which is actually far more suited to us then sitting back with the players we have.

People are only happy with these tactics when we win.

They see it for what it really is if we lose or draw.

These same tactics saw us outplayed and humiliated at home by 10 man PSG. I don't remember seeing many 'set up perfectly' comments then.

There was a moment in the game yesterday where Fabregas was pleading with the defence to push up higher and engage the opposition further up the field. I have seen Costa do this numerous times in games.

These tactics have a short life.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

'We were very well prepared for them. We were able to make some of their important players disappear. Nobody saw them.' - Jose

10 pounds, he's talking about TalkChelsea and not the United players.

"We want to play football where people will know that this time is not about result but about quality of our game" - Jose

Again, only praising nullifying stuff and how awesome we were containing the master race players That's comedy gold. 400 passes less than fucking United with Fellaini, Young, Smalling, Valencia, McNair, Blackett, at our home. I wonder if beyond this season he's going to pretend that we're such an inferior team that we have to take huge a bow in front of them and play like Stoke with money.

Wow, the amount of reference in such posts to 'moaners' is an indication for me that thankfully you all see that we play shit. When you have to go to the forum and said that you don't give a fuck that we play like an inferior side with 400 (!!!111!) passes less than an opponent at our home.

Small team mentality, only being cared about result. And how many of you were calling cunts the likes of Aston Villa, Sunderland or Crystal Palace supporters last season because they were celebrating like mad against us. It's the same and it has to change, lol, we're no midtable club anymore.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

There was a moment in the game yesterday where Fabregas was pleading with the defence to push up higher and engage the opposition further up the field. I have seen Costa do this numerous times in games.

These tactics have a short life.

You just reminded me of this situation. Yes, the pressing is the very basic thing of any dominant side. I'm worried that during 2 years Jose doesn't learn this side to have proper pressing system. Our players try to win the ball by themself, not as a team. It doesn't help that so many of our players are not athletic and has retreat mentality from old years rooted in their heads though.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

I don't understand from where the obsessions of so called 'attacking football' coming from..

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Set up perfectly" and "know how to win" are so over played... He set the team up the exact same way we've been playing recently.

No he didn't! Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the tactics, they were completely different than anything we played recently and the vast majority of the times since Jose returned because we adapted to utd and changed our tactics accordingly.

For example, our usual defensive strategy, after the first phase of pressure, is to try to force the opposition out wide and not allow them into central areas. That is what Jose has tried to do since returning (as opposed to Benitez for instance who tried to 'funnel' the opposition play into central areas and outnumber them there). The exact opposite happened yesterday. We left them huge spaces centrally to deny them spaces on the wings which is half of what their attacks are all about. And it worked because even though there were massive spaces in the middle they just seemed like they didn't want to get in there and often moved the ball backwards instead.

Another example is that we man-marked Fellaini literally all over the pitch, not just in specific areas. We haven't done that often at all this season (last time was Willian on Toure IIRC and even that was not all over the pitch but in some areas until Matic double teams him). Again something we adapted according to utd's system.

I'm not saying that those are the best tactics in the world or that they were a tactical masterclass or something like that, or even that they were implemented perfectly because they clearly weren't, but they weren't by any means "the usual tactics". Obviously a lot of work and thinking went behind them during the week.

[Laugh1ngMan 393]

I'll try to explain the game from a tactical point of view for whoever doesn't get it:

When you are up against a possession based team you have three options:

- run around like amateurs to try and get the ball (what we did in the first 30 minutes)

- press aggressively with the enitre team (which we didn't have the right personal to do, with the absence of Costa/Willian)

- sit back deep and counter (just like Real Madrid did against Bayern last year)

So the way we played was the only viable strategy we had to win the game. Everybody knew we would play Zouma in midfield to counter Fellaini because it was our only option (hell, even the pundits were predicting it)

So anybody who thinks we should/could have played differently is simply wrong and any misgivings about how we won are misplaced.

I believe in Mou, he spotted our faults previous seasons and fixed them perfectly. I have no doubt he spotted our mistakes this season (not being able to see out 1-0 wins/not dominating teams that we should, like against 10 men PSG) and will rectify them by bringing in the right personel

[Styles 9,790]

I don't understand from where the obsessions of attacking football coming from..

I watch Chelsea play almost every game. I miss maybe 2-3 games per season at most, and considering we play upwards of 55 games per season that is a lot of football. So, why wouldn't I be obsessed by the way we perform?

We have had perhaps 2 decent performances in nearly five months of football. It seems some people genuinely don't give a shit about anything but wins and trophies and yet they want to portray themselves as some sort of super fan.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

I'll try to explain the game from a tactical point of view for whoever doesn't get it:

When you are up against a possession based team you have three options:

- run around like amateurs to try and get the ball (what we did in the first 30 minutes)

- press aggressively with the enitre team (which we didn't have the right personal to do, with the absence of Costa/Willian)

- sit back deep and counter (just like Real Madrid did against Bayern last year)

So the way we played was the only viable strategy we had to win the game. Everybody knew we would play Zouma in midfield to counter Fellaini because it was our only option (hell, even the pundits were predicting it)

So anybody who thinks we should/could have played differently is simply wrong and any misgivings about how we won are misplaced.

I believe in Mou, he spotted our faults previous seasons and fixed them perfectly. I have no doubt he spotted our mistakes this season (not being able to see out 1-0 wins/not dominating teams that we should, like against 10 men PSG) and will rectify them by bringing it the right personel

Well, I don't think that anyone here is saying that we should be playing different in order to win the game !

Only big concerns how this will look like going forward when we were promised dominant football with the resources to back the style as well as results.

It doesn't seems long term project for now and that's my concern but 3rd season seems crucial in starting building the platform for the future. I'm sure everyone here is curious how this 3rd season is going to look like.

[blu35_army 551]

just saw PSG being humiliated by Barca, i'm grateful we're defeated by Luiz & co. i'm sorry but this system of play will not survive in CL anymore...

[ZOS 580]

After seeing our performances in the first half of the season, I don't get how people are questioning whether jose can play attacking football. Everybody wants to see his team play a great attacking football but nobody wants to loose important games too.

I read on the DM JT saying after the game that we haven't been in our best form since January. What does that tell you? Jose and everybody else at the club knows we're not playing great recently. But should we let that cost us the title? WTF guys?

[OhForAGreavsie 6,077]

I watch Chelsea play almost every game. I miss maybe 2-3 games per season at most, and considering we play upwards of 55 games per season that is a lot of football. So, wouldn't I be obsessed by the way we perform?

We have had perhaps 2 decent performances in nearly five months of football. It seems some people genuinely don't give a shit about anything but wins and trophies and yet they want to portray themselves as some sort of super fan.

Speaking personally, I don't consider myself a super fan but I do care about the football that's played. I have two issues however:

Although some will disagree, I am convinced that this squad is not good enough to win the league playing on the front foot. I've seen it happen time and time and time again that clubs arrive expecting a battering but become emboldened by the fact that our players keep passing to them. We survive this habit when our shape caters for it but we are horribly exposed when it does not. Our squad is better than it has been in the recent past but it is still not good enough.

I am seldom frustrated by how we play but I often am by how poorly we play. @Blue Coloured Sky won't have it, but the the only difference between our league performances at Man City this season and last, is that in 2013/14 we played well there, while this term we did not. The shape of the side was exactly the same. Atletico are much admired, including by me. They don't play front foot, they play what Jose is now calling strategically but with the difference that their passing is more sound than ours. This allows them to move forward with greater purpose and effect and also allows them time to recover their shape before possession is lost.

When Jose returned I felt we were 8 players short. We've made progress in that regard but there are still too many weak links. If we are still having to play like this three years from now, I will be as angry as some others are. For now however, I am calm and happy. Because we have Jose.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

All that Mourinho is concerned about is Mourinho. His one aim is to protect his legacy and if anyone asks him an awkward question he'll just say look at my record. And in that respect you can't argue but when your the self proclaimed special one surely you have to at least attempt to play attacking football. 30% possession at home is a shocking statistic against a team who were ravaged with injury. Now fair enough you could argue that with just Drogba up front he had no option but i don't think if Costa or Remy had started it would been drastically different tactically.

If Man U had taken an early lead through Rooney's chance what would have happened then?. Plan A out of the window what would have Plan B been hit it long to an octogenarian Drogba?. Thank God for Eden Hazard who has been a joy to watch and is carrying the team almost single- handed (hopefully) to the title. The fat lady hasn't sang but she's clearing her throat.