The Mourinho Thread

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

The criticism about Mourinho is indeed fine but the main issue here is that the same people always complain about the same old things every single time we get a bad result. That's not to say their points are wrong or anything like that, not at all but when they are being constantly repeated over and over and over again, then it feels as though some fellas like it more when we don't win than when we win.

Because it is the same problem fundamentally all the time, every time we lose it is because of his approach and tactic. You see when we got beat 2-1 by Newcastle or 5-3 by Spurs the criticism is not that big because it was due to other team defending well/luck or in the case of Spurs Cahill messing up badly but after we lost/draw for being extremely negative then people are unhappy. For example if Hazard scored an own goal and we lost yesterday with him being terrible all game, everyone will be in the Hazard thread talking about him now and no one will be here.

Btw when this thread is quiet it means silence appreciation so it is not that many don't care but if we are silence that means there is nothing to criticize him for. You see threads like Matic...etc barely get any post, that is because he has been doing well and there is nothing to discuss, virtual praising is not necessary.

[GodZola 630]

Sorry, as a former coach in a much more individualized sport the manager is responsible for putting the players in the best possible position to win and Mourinho failed to do that.

Sure, the players have to execute but Mourinho is benefitting from having the far superior side in almost every match played.

He's also overworked his rotation and it has shown with lethargic performances in the second half of the season.

People aren't upset that Chelsea lost, they are upset with how Chelsea tactically pursued the game especially given the red card scenario.

To be frank Chelsea is talent deficient in certain areas of the team, but part of that deficiency is brought on by Mourinho's shell game anytime he's trying close out a win.

Very rarely does Chelsea step on the gas pedal when they have an opponent in a tough spot.

Just look at how Liverpool was able to make a good title run in 2013-2014. They'd blitz their opponent early and take them out of the game.

Chelsea takes its foot off the gas and allows the opponent to salvage a result with 10-15 minutes of desperate play.

Its every bit the players fault as it is the manager's.

Was it José fault that lvan left Luiz or JT lost Silva for both goals? Then there was the occasion when Cavani hit the post, there were 5 of our players - yes 5, all but in a line & not one of them were marking him or anyone but thin air, that has absolutely nothing to do with management, that is just basic communication & organization, where they should be talking to each other, again nothing to do with José.

I played the game for long enough & hated 2 things, one was losing, the other was playing poorly, you let yourself down, your team mates & lastly your manager down, these players have to cop the responsibility too, many of them are a pale shadow of a couple months ago.

I've barely read a post on here that's defended José, most have been honest to admit that he made mistakes last night & like the players he needs a good shake up!

I do agree though it wasn't the fact we got knocked that bothered me, it was more so the performance that lacked everything that we have grown to expect from his teams, no hunger or desire, lacked energy, fight, very poor communication, couldn't string 2 passes together & where's that will to win gone?

Bar Courtois & Hazard, the rest of the players should be embarrassed after that shambolic excuse for a performance, however I'm hoping it will give them the wake up call they need to get us over the PL line, starting with Southampton on Sunday.

[Fernando 6,585]

Its every bit the players fault as it is the manager's.

Was it José fault that lvan left Luiz or JT lost Silva for both goals? Then there was the occasion when Cavani hit the post, there were 5 of our players - yes 5, all but in a line & not one of them were marking him or anyone but thin air, that has absolutely nothing to do with management, that is just basic communication & organization, where they should be talking to each other, again nothing to do with José.

I played the game for long enough & hated 2 things, one was losing, the other was playing poorly, you let yourself down, your team mates & lastly your manager down, these players have to cop the responsibility too, many of them are a pale shadow of a couple months ago.

I've barely read a post on here that's defended José, most have been honest to admit that he made mistakes last night & like the players he needs a good shake up!

I do agree though it wasn't the fact we got knocked that bothered me, it was more so the performance that lacked everything that we have grown to expect from his teams, no hunger or desire, lacked energy, fight, very poor communication, couldn't string 2 passes together & where's that will to win gone?

Bar Courtois & Hazard, the rest of the players should be embarrassed after that shambolic excuse for a performance, however I'm hoping it will give them the wake up call they need to get us over the PL line, starting with Southampton on Sunday.

The thing is that even before the goal came we was inviting the pressure with one more man.

Ramires who didn't do so much of anything continue to stay in the team till the end of the second.....

Why change Matic for zouma?

Your one goal up with one less men, go for the kill!

It's just not today but many many times that we have seen that. We score one goal and we retract. It's cost us every single time.

So has he not seen this issue?

In this respect I agree when people get mad at Mourinho for his cautious approach.

[Stingray 9,441]

This post has pretty much hit the nail on the head, I feel. The team is currently quite inflexible from a tactical perspective because too many of our tactical approaches and player selections are being implemented exclusively to cover for our own weaknesses, rather than in an attempt to exploit the weaknesses of the opposition; this is why we are so reactive.

- Ivanovic is not great at preventing crosses coming in from his side of the defence, but Mourinho views his attacking forays, physicality, and experience as being hugely valuable to the team, so we end up playing our RM as an effective wing-back to help him out. Having wide attacking players track back is entirely reasonable, but having them do it to the extent that is apparently demanded of our starting RM is quite ridiculous. If Ivanovic needs that much help defending the right side, then it seems obvious to me that he is simply not up to the job at this point.

- Azpilicueta (who used to be a RB) starts at LB for us for TWO reasons. One of those reasons is that he has Hazard playing in front of him, with Mourinho obviously feeling that if Hazard is to be allowed greater attacking freedom then the full-back behind him should be more cautious in attack to prevent us from being exposed; the problem with this approach is that Hazard's 'attacking freedom' ends up being little of the sort because he has minimal support in attack from the full-back and so can be double-or triple-marked. The second reason for Azpi being deployed at LB stems from the first (the potential for our left side to become exposed regularly) because Terry does not have the pace, agility, or general athleticism to cope with players running at him in a 1-on-1 situation; Mourinho therefore views it as being necessary to play a right-footed player as our LB to give Terry more protection.

- Oscar, despite being a good 'all-rounder', is far from being a 'world-class' 'no.10' at this moment in time. Nonetheless, he (or a player with similar defensive attributes to him e.g. Willian) HAS to be used in the 'no.10' role for us because he generally does good work covering for Fabregas' lack of mobility and genuine defensive ability. Without such a player pressing from the front, shutting down passing lanes, and enabling us to retain possession (at least some of the time) when we have it, our midfield becomes unable to exert any genuine control over the game, even with Matic in the pivot (as we saw last night when Matic-Fabregas-Ramires were in the centre). However, deploying such a player in such a role comes at the cost of reduced creativity in the attacking-midfield area, which is only exacerbated further by the 'necessity' of playing our RM as a wing-back to cover for Ivanovic. The attacking burden therefore falls upon Hazard on the left..... but as already mentioned, he doesn't often have adequate support from Azpi at LB.

All good teams MUST function as a unit, with certain players covering for other players etc., but I feel that this season Mourinho has afforded this necessity undue attention at the expense of developing the team in such a way that we can exploit the inevitable structural weaknesses of opposing teams in a more proactive and balanced manner; he's tried to make our own team as difficult to exploit as possible, but this approach has been undermined by his insistence upon designating innapropriate players (e.g. Ivanovic) as 'untouchables', and has come at the expense of team coherence when in possession and attacking.

Having said (all ) this, I certainly don't think that we should even contemplate sacking Mourinho any time soon; there are almost no realistic options out there to replace him (and only two/three/four managers genuinely 'better' than him anyway), and he DOES appear to have a real affinity for this club. I'm just hoping that we will see improvement from him next season, because this season he's been well below his usual standard in the 'big games' we've played. Thankfully, winning the 'big games' is not a requirement for winning the PL.

Nice post mate!

[communicate 2,703]

Its every bit the players fault as it is the manager's.

Was it José fault that lvan left Luiz or JT lost Silva for both goals? Then there was the occasion when Cavani hit the post, there were 5 of our players - yes 5, all but in a line & not one of them were marking him or anyone but thin air, that has absolutely nothing to do with management, that is just basic communication & organization, where they should be talking to each other, again nothing to do with José.

I played the game for long enough & hated 2 things, one was losing, the other was playing poorly, you let yourself down, your team mates & lastly your manager down, these players have to cop the responsibility too, many of them are a pale shadow of a couple months ago.

I've barely read a post on here that's defended José, most have been honest to admit that he made mistakes last night & like the players he needs a good shake up!

I do agree though it wasn't the fact we got knocked that bothered me, it was more so the performance that lacked everything that we have grown to expect from his teams, no hunger or desire, lacked energy, fight, very poor communication, couldn't string 2 passes together & where's that will to win gone?

Bar Courtois & Hazard, the rest of the players should be embarrassed after that shambolic excuse for a performance, however I'm hoping it will give them the wake up call they need to get us over the PL line, starting with Southampton on Sunday.

Of course the players deserve blame also but if we control the game, create good amount of chances and PSG scored from two corners, we will not come here talking about Mourinho, we will be talking how ivanovic or cahill lose their man.

But yesterday we were just awful, we got soft red card, got outplayed by 10 man (same thing happened against City). For some reason in big games we just simply cannot play where we have to dominate the other team, and that has to fall on Mourinho.

and people forget we have 1 week to prepare for this game, there is no excuse.

[Tomo 21,751]

The criticism about Mourinho is indeed fine but the main issue here is that the same people always complain about the same old things every single time we get a bad result. That's not to say their points are wrong or anything like that, not at all but when they are being constantly repeated over and over and over again, then it feels as though some fellas like it more when we don't win than when we win.

For me I can get over that aspect, what does it for me is the sheer lack of respect by a few on here for a man who has given so much for this club.

Look at Drogba for example, a lot of people me included didn't want him to return (as a player) this summer but the respect for the man was still there, some people here have clearly no respect for the greatest manager in the history of the club they support, which is utterly criminal.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Still complaining about the refs despite we had 12 men yesterday.

Its getting ridiculous that we think about refs all this time, players and Mou should start thinking how could THEY fucked up so bad.

Our players lack balls, heart, spirit.

This is exactly why you have to think twice before selling characters like Luis. We lack such type of players in decisive matches. Not saying we shouldnt sell him though.

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

For me I can get over that aspect, what does it for me is the sheer lack of respect by a few on here for a man who has given so much for this club.

Look at Drogba for example, a lot of people me included didn't want him to return (as a player) this summer but the respect for the man was still there, some people here have clearly no respect for the greatest manager in the history of the club they support, which is utterly criminal.

What 'respect' do you want everyone to have for him? no one is calling him a cunt, names like FSW like with Rafa...etc. No one is forgetting his past achievements with us and he will be a legend here no matter what. What do you want everyone to do? Bound to him like followers of a God?

There is a line between respect and criticism which you seems to combine them to create new meaning for respect. People wanting him out due to style..etc are not disrespectful, maybe they want us to defend well like Atletico or play good passing like Pep's team or good pressing attacking football all the time like Klopp. If Jose can't give them that then naturally they would want someone else to be in charge, but not without ever forgetting Jose's achievements.

[GodZola 630]

The thing is that even before the goal came we was inviting the pressure with one more man.

Ramires who didn't do so much of anything continue to stay in the team till the end of the second.....

Why change Matic for zouma?

Your one goal up with one less men, go for the kill!

It's just not today but many many times that we have seen that. We score one goal and we retract. It's cost us every single time.

So has he not seen this issue?

In this respect I agree when people get mad at Mourinho for his cautious approach.

As I've already stated fella, I cannot defend him after last night, contrary to what the detractors feel I have criticized him previously this season, however some of the pessimism just goes overboard & tedious, just to keep digging the same old up all the time.

He has made mistakes no question but you also have to look a little deeper than that, predominantly the players are simply not playing anywhere near their potential at present & you cannot lay all the blame at José door.

A couple of years ago most were calling for stability, now we are heading that way we are now seeing posts wanting him out ffs! Then there this tiredness bollocks, well Costa, Matic, Fabregas have had spells on the sidelines & rest, the whole team was rested for a week & we were still poor so as you see fans want it both ways.

The difference is expectation, many like myself see this as 3/4 year plan to create a side to compete with the very best playing offensively with intensity & high pressing game, unfortunately this all takes time. We were in a right mess before he arrived & whilst I don't agree with some of his decisions he has built a fairly decent squad which has kept us in the hunt for the PL & keeping inline with FFP, if we win the PL for me that will be a fantastic season, others want us to play swashbuckling football whilst winning everything & they want it now!

I've always said that Jose & Roman set out objectives when José returned & I believe building 'his own squad' was the first which is still a work in progress, second was to start playing offensively like Roman wants & third is to slowly introduce players from our academy or something along those lines.

Sure he is making mistakes & fans have a right to vent their spleen but I believe he will get it right & peeps just need to be a little more patient.

[Spike 12,049]

Mourinho is an arrogant man. He only method is his way; and sadly his way is to the detriment of the team. I feel he'd rather lose than compromise.

[nono 791]

As I've already stated fella, I cannot defend him after last night, contrary to what the detractors feel I have criticized him previously this season, however some of the pessimism just goes overboard & tedious, just to keep digging the same old up all the time.

He has made mistakes no question but you also have to look a little deeper than that, predominantly the players are simply not playing anywhere near their potential at present & you cannot lay all the blame at José door.

A couple of years ago most were calling for stability, now we are heading that way we are now seeing posts wanting him out ffs! Then there this tiredness bollocks, well Costa, Matic, Fabregas have had spells on the sidelines & rest, the whole team was rested for a week & we were still poor so as you see fans want it both ways.

The difference is expectation, many like myself see this as 3/4 year plan to create a side to compete with the very best playing offensively with intensity & high pressing game, unfortunately this all takes time. We were in a right mess before he arrived & whilst I don't agree with some of his decisions he has built a fairly decent squad which has kept us in the hunt for the PL & keeping inline with FFP, if we win the PL for me that will be a fantastic season, others want us to play swashbuckling football whilst winning everything & they want it now!

I've always said that Jose & Roman set out objectives when José returned & I believe building 'his own squad' was the first which is still a work in progress, second was to start playing offensively like Roman wants & third is to slowly introduce players from our academy or something along those lines.

Sure he is making mistakes & fans have a right to vent their spleen but I believe he will get it right & peeps just need to be a little more patient.

This is my biggest fear tbh. We saw what happened the last time Mourinho was sacked. United went on the win the title 3 years in a row. I don't really trust the board to replace him properly. Let's just hope that he learns from his mistakes and that the new tv deal will give us an edge over other teams in the CL. Anyways, I reckon that we'll know very early on next season how things are going to turn out. If he takes the same approach in the big games as now, I'll hope he is sacked.

[Tomo 21,751]

What 'respect' do you want everyone to have for him? no one is calling him a cunt, names like FSW like with Rafa...etc. No one is forgetting his past achievements with us and he will be a legend here no matter what. What do you want everyone to do? Bound to him like followers of a God?

There is a line between respect and criticism which you seems to combine them to create new meaning for respect. People wanting him out due to style..etc are not disrespectful, maybe they want us to defend well like Atletico or play good passing like Pep's team or good pressing attacking football all the time like Klopp. If Jose can't give them that then naturally they would want someone else to be in charge, but not without ever forgetting Jose's achievements.

He was called a coward on either this or the match thread (can't remember which) last night. I have heard other things on par with that in the past.

Could you imagine one Tottenham fan branding Nicholson a coward? One Liverpool fan saying that about Shankley or even Dalglish? One United fan about Fergie?

Criticism like he isn't getting the pressing right for example I genuinely don't have a problem with, but when it gets to 'coward' territory' or before the carling cup final someone telling him to fuck off, I don't like.

[Pseudo 92]

Why are people talking about the corners? It wasn't about the result of the match but the performance we had against a 10 man team that's the problem. If Silva's header hadn't gone in and we won the match, the utter shambolic performance still exists.

And don't you dare blame our players! These types of cowardice tactics isn't synonymous with Chelsea. Madrid also played cowardice football under Mou. Obviously he couldn't do it as often with them as he did with us but when the chips were down he reverted to type and parked it

Look how fluid Ancelotti Madrid are compared to Jose's. Carlo is far from a perfect manager but under him Madrid steamrolled the CL with relative ease. He didn't do anything amazing tactically during their run, but he let them express themselves. They also learned to press and defend proactively under him.

I remember wondering why Mou couldn't win with this team. A tactically weaker manager was able to make it look so easy in the CL but Mou struggled every time they met a decent team.

[GodZola 630]

Of course the players deserve blame also but if we control the game, create good amount of chances and PSG scored from two corners, we will not come here talking about Mourinho, we will be talking how ivanovic or cahill lose their man.

But yesterday we were just awful, we got soft red card, got outplayed by 10 man (same thing happened against City). For some reason in big games we just simply cannot play where we have to dominate the other team, and that has to fall on Mourinho.

and people forget we have 1 week to prepare for this game, there is no excuse.

No, we need to talk about the players too, did they or did they not make mistakes too? 2 corners that put us out, one is poss fair enough but 2 in one game is completely unacceptable, they would of been drilled by José on who to mark what, where & when & I've said & now you have reiterated it, they have had a week to prepare & still played like amateurs.

See my post to Fernando, I am not defending him, just stating a point that the blame is equally shared with the players.

[GodZola 630]

This is my biggest fear tbh. We saw what happened the last time Mourinho was sacked. United went on the win the title 3 years in a row. I don't really trust the board to replace him properly. Let's just hope that he learns from his mistakes and that the new tv deal will give us an edge over other teams in the CL. Anyways, I reckon that we'll know very early on next season how things are going to turn out. If he takes the same approach in the big games as now, I'll hope he is sacked.

If you want him sacked then that's your opinion fella, I hope next season we will see some new faces & a different approach but you simply cannot do it all the time, Utd scraped so many results by playing poorly but ending the season as champions, didn't see their fans moaning about their style then.

Yeah I hope José & the board have learned some valuable lessons from the past.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I'm all for criticism, and I do believe that Jose takes the biggest blame for yesterday's result. But sack Jose? Really? Ironically it's some of the same people that a couple of years ago were moaning about stability and it's effect on the club and youth integration.

And to those announcing the death of 'pragmatic football', it seems all of you have forgotten last season, when this pragmatic football had the team punching well above it's weight both domestically and in Europe.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

I'm all for criticism, and I do believe that Jose takes the biggest blame for yesterday's result. But sack Jose? Really? Ironically it's some of the same people that a couple of years ago were moaning about stability and it's effect on the club and youth integration.

And to those announcing the death of 'pragmatic football', it seems all of you have forgotten last season, when this pragmatic football had the team punching well above it's weight both domestically and in Europe.

I think what we have here is a clear case of over analyzing a game we had no business losing. (two leads) Those who are asking for Jose to be sacked are the same people who have been his detractors all season. They wait for an opportunity like yesterday to get everyone to buy into the bullshit that Jose has lost it and is stuck in 2010.... LOL.

[Fernando 6,585]

I'm all for criticism, and I do believe that Jose takes the biggest blame for yesterday's result. But sack Jose? Really? Ironically it's some of the same people that a couple of years ago were moaning about stability and it's effect on the club and youth integration.

And to those announcing the death of 'pragmatic football', it seems all of you have forgotten last season, when this pragmatic football had the team punching well above it's weight both domestically and in Europe.

Stability for me is between 3 to 5 years.

You can accomplish a lot in that time.

What I don't agree is to have Mourinho as our saf.

I think that saf was an anomaly and should not be used as measuring tool.

I would prefer to look at the time frame that pep did for his team. 5 years is good enough.

Mourinho has done two and have not been two years of greatness. Two years that someone like pellegrini has done with similar resources if you can call it that...

But mourinho will get his third year, and who knows maybe 4th.

But I have not see nothing of greatness that merits unlimited amount of years.

Unless we are going the Arsenal way and be satisfied with a certain standard...

[bababoom 4,478]

I'm disappointed about yesterday but never would i want him to be sacked, we're top of the league ffs... we need some stability.

We do need to kick on though, the last few months we've played some turgid stuff, i dont know why we've gone off the boil, whether it's Jose' tactics or the players lacking form. We played some beautiful football in the beginning of the season, we looked like a top, top european team. Whenever the opposition scored i knew we were going to come back. Now, we play with no urgency, everything seems so laboured, also for the first time yesterday we looked scared of defending, it was like the players had no idea what they were meant to do... it also doesn't help the likes of Willian, Oscar, Ramires and Cahill have massively dipped in form as of late.

I trust Jose 100 percent and think he's the best man for the job, but i'm not sure what type of team he's trying to create here, whether it's a Chelsea (04-06) 2.0 or a more attacking team like he previously stated (link), I'd have no problem with either, its just right now we cant defend a lead to save our life or play with any attacking flair like earlier on in the season. I also hope he keeps his word about integrating the youth players such as RLC, we need to start seeing some of the youngsters break through at Chelsea, Jose has a tendency to just say things and not actually mean them, not slating him it's just what he does.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

I'm all for criticism, and I do believe that Jose takes the biggest blame for yesterday's result. But sack Jose? Really? Ironically it's some of the same people that a couple of years ago were moaning about stability and it's effect on the club and youth integration.

And to those announcing the death of 'pragmatic football', it seems all of you have forgotten last season, when this pragmatic football had the team punching well above it's weight both domestically and in Europe.

Sacking Mourinho is ridiculous but he really does need to rethink his tactical approach for next season.

If he wants to sit deep and counter then fine but make it work so that we don't concede chances and are actually capable of effectively countering.

It just isn't working this season. We've got 10 behind the ball yet we're still conceding big chances and our counters have been very poor this season.