The Mourinho Thread

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

Not so sure about that, especially after all the investment in the youth setup, and our last CL game was meaningless.

I also found it strange how Jose spoke about how Loftus-Cheek owes him a bottle of wine now; 'he was joking', but it speaks volumes for how the natural integration of youth into the side is non-existent.

It is but I think also the structure of English football doesn't help managers as much as it could, teams in Spain, Holland, Germany have B teams which play in a lower league which is at a higher level of football than say U21 football and give their players more competitive football and makes the step to the first team a bit more easier. Obviously Jose obviously isn't the best manager in terms of introducing youth either but there aren't very many managers in England that actually introduce youth as much as say Pep did at Barca or van Gaal did at Bayern.

[TheOneChan95 225]

I think this season is far too crucial to be playing too many youngsters. We need that "winners mentality" and get the players to treat each game seriously. If we win at least the PL I think we would have some leeway to play more youngsters next season. Currently I think Brana has a higher chance of playing upfront than Solanke.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I think this season is far too crucial to be playing too many youngsters. We need that "winners mentality" and get the players to treat each game seriously. If we win at least the PL I think we would have some leeway to play more youngsters next season. Currently I think Brana has a higher chance of playing upfront than Solanke.

If that was true, we would've seen such results in 2006/07. It's a cop-out to say "this season is far too crucial", it's harder to retain a trophy than it is to win it on the one-off. I mentioned it yesterday, but do you recall this?

[Victor Von Doom 258]

How come Jose always get what he is wishing for?

[OhForAGreavsie 6,077]

If that was true, we would've seen such results in 2006/07. It's a cop-out to say "this season is far too crucial", it's harder to retain a trophy than it is to win it on the one-off. I mentioned it yesterday, but do you recall this?

I also remember Eddie McCreadie deciding to go with the kids...

and getting relegated.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

If that was true, we would've seen such results in 2006/07. It's a cop-out to say "this season is far too crucial", it's harder to retain a trophy than it is to win it on the one-off. I mentioned it yesterday, but do you recall this?

Yet to be proven wrong though, isn't it?

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Yet to be proven wrong though, isn't it?

Well it was, when Fergie did it with the youngsters including Beckham, Neville x2, Butt etc.

The point is, it's not about using all the kids at once. It's that, there's no point in saying "once we've won [insert trophy]". That sort of timeline is a simple cop-out because it's always the excuse for the season after. Using youth is a risk, but it's worth taking sometimes.

[Madmax 9,219]

Well it was, when Fergie did it with the youngsters including Beckham, Neville x2, Butt etc.

The point is, it's not about using all the kids at once. It's that, there's no point in saying "once we've won [insert trophy]". That sort of timeline is a simple cop-out because it's always the excuse for the season after. Using youth is a risk, but it's worth taking sometimes.

Exactly. There'll always be one excuse or another.

Cop-out bingo :

'need to win trophies'

'need to sustain winning culture'

'we should respect all competitions'

'not playing well enough at loans'

'playing well on loan but playing at Chelsea is different'

'if they're good they'll make it somehow'

[lionsden 4,689]

Well it was, when Fergie did it with the youngsters including Beckham, Neville x2, Butt etc.

The point is, it's not about using all the kids at once. It's that, there's no point in saying "once we've won [insert trophy]". That sort of timeline is a simple cop-out because it's always the excuse for the season after. Using youth is a risk, but it's worth taking sometimes.

exactly I doubt our trophy target will be derailed or sabotaged if we gave Boga and RLC the role Salah and Mikel currently occupy in the squad.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

I'm gonna be honest - I love that we're "ganging up" on Mourinho right now as opposed to just believing in him. His decision to leave out RLC for 82 minutes was laughable at best. His statement of putting out the best team vs Derby is the same. A match vs a championship team - surely we could afford to play just 1 youth surrounded by 10 first teamers, right?

However, that brilliant article by Neville put things into perspective to me. At the absolute worst, we have a top 3 academy in England. It took a while for the club to get to this point. If you look at Mourinho's record, he doesn't integrate youth into his squad. Please don't feed me the BS of "look at how many players he gave their debuts too" because that's EXACTLY the same thing that just happened to RLC. A debut without consistent playing time means fuck all.

Back to my point - this is a new strategy for Mourinho as well. He's also coming to terms with this outlook for the first time in his 14 year career. Neville was talking about how linked the youth team and the first team was, how everything's integrated, he was learning from his experiences etc. Well couldn't you say this was RLC's first major learning experience? Whether the match meant anything or not, players uproot their families just so they can play for a club in the CL. He also had his first presser alongside his manager possibly for the next 10 years. Mourinho's mindset is win at all costs - we know this and love it. It's going to take some trial and error on his part on how to go about it. It's easy for us to sit here and say "ah well he should play player A here for X minutes and player B for X minutes" but it's our league to lose this year and IMO Jose knows that.

ZOUMA.

[Fernando 6,585]

Well it was, when Fergie did it with the youngsters including Beckham, Neville x2, Butt etc.

The point is, it's not about using all the kids at once. It's that, there's no point in saying "once we've won [insert trophy]". That sort of timeline is a simple cop-out because it's always the excuse for the season after. Using youth is a risk, but it's worth taking sometimes.

I think it was different a decade ago and it was demanded that we win, win and win.

The standards has been reduced a tad bit.... Just a tad. And because of FFP we can't no longer splash like crazy.

We did good this season with transfer, but how many years you expect the same results?

Every year we sell a youth for over 20 millions?

It's gonna come a time that what we have to spend and what's available ain't as good as what we have.

Biggest example is Salah. What was the purpose of spending 10 millions to get him when his slot can go to a guy from the Academy?

If mourinho is really staying here for a decade then by next season we should see something moving in this direction.

*noticed that I'm a pessimists when it comes to youth but at least I can acknowledge that thanks to FFP we might just have to use the kids in the coming seasons.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

The harm obviously is risking getting knocked out of the league cup when we have a good chance of winning it.

It's a risk gain analysis and here the risk of exhausting the players is rather low consider the circumstances I already stated and the gain is high because I do believe we will need our first XI to ensure going through.

Derby are at home, in front of their fans, for their biggest match of the season in a cup game where anything can happen. They will look to sit deep and frustrate us and hit on the counter. It's not that our bench is not better than the Derby team it's the way that the game will likely pan out that we will likely need the likes of Hazard and Fabregas and Matic...etc. to break them down.

This game should be treated the same as an away game at Burnley or Leicester or Hull in the EPL.

Not so sure we can't get through Derby with our squad players.

Zouma, Cech, Luis, Schurrle, Remy should be able to play in this game and get the right result.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Well it was, when Fergie did it with the youngsters including Beckham, Neville x2, Butt etc.

The point is, it's not about using all the kids at once. It's that, there's no point in saying "once we've won [insert trophy]". That sort of timeline is a simple cop-out because it's always the excuse for the season after. Using youth is a risk, but it's worth taking sometimes.

But they lost that season to blackburn.

And that was in 1995, it's a completely different ball game today. Youth players don't have just the established English players to compete with but some of the best players in the world. It's also a much more business/result sport and top teams are expected to win every match even though the league itself ten times more difficult.

This is especially evident in the EPL where literally any team can beat any other team. Barcelona or Real Madrid can afford to start 1-2 youngsters against any bottom half team and still win comfortably without getting out of first gear.Same with Bayern against almost any team in the Bundes Liga. In the EPL you can't afford not to play your best team against anyone because there are no easy matches.

The club will not rely on unproven youngsters. It's as simple as that. Apart from Zouma and to a lesser degree Ake, none of the youth players are part of the first team or really part of our season despite all the debuts. Those are meant first as a publicity stunt but also as a motivation for young players to keep working hard to impress, get a loan, impress there and hopefully get a place back here. Being a footballer at a top European team like Chelsea is not something that gets handed to you for some vaguely moral reason. Same goes for the players we buy in the market.

Chelsea is no longer just a football club, it's a global brand and essentially a corporation, and corporations will always attempt to maximize short-term gains.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Not so sure we can't get through Derby with our squad players.

Zouma, Cech, Luis, Schurrle, Remy should be able to play in this game and get the right result.

Yeah, Zouma will indeed start and the others are not exactly 'fringe' players as they are hardly below the level of the usual starters.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Yeah, Zouma will indeed start and the others are not exactly 'fringe' players as they are hardly below the level of the usual starters.

We need to take the opportunities to keep our regular starters fresh. I'd rest Hazard personally...

[TheOneChan95 225]

If that was true, we would've seen such results in 2006/07. It's a cop-out to say "this season is far too crucial", it's harder to retain a trophy than it is to win it on the one-off. I mentioned it yesterday, but do you recall this?

Understand the pessimism. But honestly the quality of the academy products now are definitely much better than that of the previous Mou era. Sorry I didn't see what you mentioned yesterday. I do agree that we can't win anything solely on kids but that's why Mou doesn't field a team solely full of them. They have to be introduced slowly and play games with the senior members. Look at how Ake is introduced.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

We need to take the opportunities to keep our regular starters fresh. I'd rest Hazard personally...

Hazard had two days off last week and was allowed to travel with his family when he was rested for Sporting and he'll have another two days off tomorrow and Thursday with the rest of the team since our next match is Monday. I think we can afford to play him tonight without risking exhaustion.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Hazard had two days off last week and was allowed to travel with his family when he was rested for Sporting and he'll have another two days off tomorrow and Thursday with the rest of the team since our next match is Monday. I think we can afford to play him tonight without risking exhaustion.

Its not so much his fitness as it is giving minutes to people who haven't received much this season. We don't need him to play this game and those types of games are few and far between.

Give Schurrle a chance to find his form before he's thrust into the holiday season without much actual game time.

[Barbara 15,149]

Because if we fielded a team with Baker, Boga and Solanke in it, along with Christensen, Ake, Salah and Zouma in it we'd probably lose and I imagine Jose really wants to win the Capital One Cup this season. I would have started Solanke over Drogba but Drogba needed match fitness which is paying dividends now.

RLC probably should have got more game time yes, But Jose wanted to make sure the game was won. We owed it to Schalke to play our best and put out a good side. Nearly every team who had qualified put out more or less there strongest teams.

If we want to give our academy players more time then they need to be in the squad instead of the likes of Salah, Mikel, Ramires because when we have a chance to weaken the team these players will be given the minutes first because of their fees and wages.

And it is down to managerial stability. If Jose had been here 4 or 5 years we would have seen more academy players. The young players will learn what Jose expects him to do in his position and will be ready once called up. They will know their jobs inside out and will have seen the senior squad winning on the pitch with the same work ethic and style of play.

Would people really rather us become an Arsenal? Give everyone a run out in the Capital One Cup but win fuck all every year?

best post I've read in this forum in a long while. I absolutely agree. Wanted to write something along the lines in the Derby x Chelsea match thread, but wasn't as eloquent and clear as you.

Developing youth doesn't come from a game gifted here and there, but integrating them to the squad. Mourinho is working with them this season, and getting to know them in the training sessions. I could see the ones he feels like are nearly ready staying another season but becoming part of the squad for real. If they don't, it's because Mourinho doesn't believe they're ready to be integrated - or even in more extreme cases, that they aren't cut to make it here.

Then it comes down to trust. Mourinho had no problem benching Ramos and playing Varane - who later played most games there, at age 19, and forced Arbeloa to the bench. He gave Varane the chance because he thought he was capable. It really doesn't make a difference if Varane was formed at Madrid or not, after training a while under Mourinho, Mourinho saw what he needed and promoted the kid. Mourinho is competitive and I agree with everyone who will say he isn't know as a youth promoter kind of manager. I agree he's even reluctant to use them, but he's not a clown that will give those kids 1-2 matches a season in worthless matches or matches of less importance just to shut fans up. He will give the chances for those he believes are ready to receive REAL chances, not charity.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Understand the pessimism. But honestly the quality of the academy products now are definitely much better than that of the previous Mou era. Sorry I didn't see what you mentioned yesterday. I do agree that we can't win anything solely on kids but that's why Mou doesn't field a team solely full of them. They have to be introduced slowly and play games with the senior members. Look at how Ake is introduced.

No, no you misunderstand. When Hansen said that about United, they proved him wrong and won it with kids. That's my point. We should trust them to play big games, like Wilson for United, Sterling at Liverpool, Barkley at Everton etc.