Kenedy

[OhForAGreavsie 5,898]

People here are difficult to impress. He could have scored a hattrick and people would say his finishing didn't look crisp enough.

Entirely possible for players to score hatricks without it indicating that their finishing is crisp.

[iseah100 5,612]

Entirely possible for players to score hatricks without it indicating that their finishing is crisp.

Ever seen Chicarito and Demba Ba score goals?

[OhForAGreavsie 5,898]

Ever seen Chicarito and Demba Ba score goals?

You know the answer to that question but I don't see the point you're making.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

I think many here are jumping to way too many conclusions about what the player can and can't do... It was 45mins in a friendly, his first appearance for the club, I don't see how any jibes can be made about his technique or his footballing brain given the limited amount of time he's had on the pitch and most importantly working in our system.

If you ask me to see a 19 yr old come in and work his ass off for the squad when his best skills are scoring goals, thats impressive. Now he has to build on that, this is nothing more than a good debut.

[Atlas Lion 1,223]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx_pJOghL78

Could potentially solve our RW problem if he continues to have the right attitude and develop properly. Hoping to Christ we don't loan him and get rid of Cuadrado.

[mikeholiday 209]

Dude got some strength, some speed.

[Unionjack 7,531]

I agree with what most of us have said both the pros and cons and I totally understand (as much as my head will allow) the problems concerning his contract etc. And I read the comments Mou said about him.

What I dont understand is why Mou gave him playing time. He isn't one of our players (yet, whenever) so wouldn't it have been more beneficial for us to have given his time to a player that has a better chance of helping our 1st team this season? We are already looking at a thin squad with a lack of depth so its very nice for Mou to say "I think it was the best debut for a kid, to play against the best team. It was a great night for the kid and a great experience.” but how is that going to help our season?

[RhesusReus 219]

I agree with what most of us have said both the pros and cons and I totally understand (as much as my head will allow) the problems concerning his contract etc. And I read the comments Mou said about him.

What I dont understand is why Mou gave him playing time. He isn't one of our players (yet, whenever) so wouldn't it have been more beneficial for us to have given his time to a player that has a better chance of helping our 1st team this season? We are already looking at a thin squad with a lack of depth so its very nice for Mou to say "I think it was the best debut for a kid, to play against the best team. It was a great night for the kid and a great experience.” but how is that going to help our season?

how is playing Traore another 45 mins going to help us? he's already played and we saw what he offers and Jose likes him enough to keep him. The same goes for Moses. He's played in every game and has looked like he can contribute. who else do you have in mind out wide that can help us this season?

you have a very limited view.

Traore himself got his go when he wasn't contracted with us in summer of 2013 (he officially signed in January 2014), and that performance was enough for Jose to include him in his future plans.

Similar could happen to Kenedy. Seeing him play in the team, with nearly our strongest lineup, and him not looking out of place was great. he wasn't overwhelmed or nervous like RLC has been. He was hungry, aggressive, full of confidence. The most important traits to have in a youngster. he's going to a player.

[Barbara 15,149]

I think many here are jumping to way too many conclusions about what the player can and can't do... It was 45mins in a friendly, his first appearance for the club, I don't see how any jibes can be made about his technique or his footballing brain given the limited amount of time he's had on the pitch and most importantly working in our system.

If you ask me to see a 19 yr old come in and work his ass off for the squad when his best skills are scoring goals, thats impressive. Now he has to build on that, this is nothing more than a good debut.

Except I didn't draw any conclusions based on that, but watching a bunch of matches he actually featured for significant amounts of time.

And every time I stated my low expectations about him I also mentioned his age and how things could change. Some may need thousand matches to have am opinion about a player, I don't and still watched many. He's the kind of player that frustrates me and the poster child for this kind is Ramires. A lot of people like him (in Brazil) I don't. Legs can only take you so far. Missing passes, not choosing the best (and many times easiest) option, ruining attacks isn't attractive to me, but many overlook this because of stamina, pace and flashy moves. To each their own just wanted to clarify I don't jump to conclusions based on a pre-season match and that I'm aware he's young and a lot can change.

But he showed the right attitude the whole time he stayed in the pitch.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Except I didn't draw any conclusions based on that, but watching a bunch of matches he actually featured for significant amounts of time.

And every time I stated my low expectations about him I also mentioned his age and how things could change. Some may need thousand matches to have am opinion about a player, I don't and still watched many. He's the kind of player that frustrates me and the poster child for this kind is Ramires. A lot of people like him (in Brazil) I don't. Legs can only take you so far. Missing passes, not choosing the best (and many times easiest) option, ruining attacks isn't attractive to me, but many overlook this because of stamina, pace and flashy moves. To each their own just wanted to clarify I don't jump to conclusions based on a pre-season match and that I'm aware he's young and a lot can change.

But he showed the right attitude the whole time he stayed in the pitch.

Regardless of how many times you've seen him play you are assigning traits to a player who is 19 and not even close to a finished article. What you've seen from him as a kid is not the measure of what he can do under Mourinho and with the instructions he assigns to him. I mean who knew Willian could be so valuable as a defender given what we've seen of him at Shakhtar? My point is the qualities you've seen in him at the international level or at Fluminense at the 19 and under age is not exactly enough data to formulate an opinion on a player.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,898]

Regardless of how many times you've seen him play you are assigning traits to a player who is 19 and not even close to a finished article. What you've seen from him as a kid is not the measure of what he can do under Mourinho and with the instructions he assigns to him. I mean who knew Willian could be so valuable as a defender given what we've seen of him at Shakhtar? My point is the qualities you've seen in him at the international level or at Fluminense at the 19 and under age is not exactly enough data to formulate an opinion on a player.

Firstly, re your earlier comment that people were aiming Jibes at the player. In my case at least, and in Barbara's too actually, that's completely inaccurate. I hope you'll agree that my post contains many observations and some admiration but not a single jibe.

Secondly, no one is assigning traits to the player. If I assert that Arsenal's home shirt is predominantly red that's another observation, not an assignation. Someone else might say that it's more accurate to call it scarlet, or flame, or whatever. If they doubt the quality of my assessment of the colour, that's fine but they'd be stretching it to claim I had not seen what was right in front of me. In any case, the implication of the post to which I am replying is that you agree with what Barbara has said about Kennedy. You don't say the observations are wrong, you just say that the player has time to change them, to develop. Well, that's an opinion that many will share but it does not mean that, right now, Barbara's views are incorrect.

Thirdly, you say there is not yet sufficient data on which to base an assessment of Kennedy's traits, and that 19 is too young an age to judge. Well that also is an opinion with which many would agree, but not me. There are some things a player can improve and some things he cannot. If talent could be improved by coaching and hard work then why isn't every professional footballer as good as Lionel Messi? Why don't they all just practice a little harder till they are? Training and effort enable a player to make the most of what he has, but it doesn't alter what he has. His talent level is his talent level, and he's stuck with it.

I ask you to reconsider my post on Kennedy. I think you'll agree that there are observations but no jibes. I hope you'll also agree that there is praise for the kid and a even a suggestion about how he might make a contribution here. The young man is not blessed with silky touch or tremendous close dribbling skills however, and he shouldn't be encouraged to believe that he is. If he tries to play like Hazard he'll flop; if he learns to play like Bale he could achieve something.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Secondly, no one is assigning traits to the player. If I assert that Arsenal's home shirt is predominantly red that's another observation, not an assignation. Someone else might say that it's more accurate to call it scarlet, or flame, or whatever. If they doubt the quality of my assessment of the colour, that's fine but they'd be stretching it to claim I had not seen what was right in front of me. In any case, the implication of the post to which I am replying is that you agree with what Barbara has said about Kennedy. You don't say the observations are wrong, you just say that the player has time to change them, to develop. Well, that's an opinion that many will share but it does not mean that, right now, Barbara's views are incorrect.

Thirdly, you say there is not yet sufficient data on which to base an assessment of Kennedy's traits, and that 19 is too young an age to judge. Well that also is an opinion with which many would agree, but not me. There are some things a player can improve and some things he cannot. If talent could be improved by coaching and hard work then why isn't every professional footballer as good as Lionel Messi? Why don't they all just practice a little harder till they are? Training and effort enable a player to make the most of what he has, but it doesn't alter what he has. His talent level is his talent level, and he's stuck with it.

I ask you to reconsider my post on Kennedy. I think you'll agree that there are observations but no jibes. I hope you'll also agree that there is praise for the kid and a even a suggestion about how he might make a contribution here. The young man is not blessed with silky touch or tremendous close dribbling skills however, and he shouldn't be encouraged to believe that he is. If he tries to play like Hazard he'll flop; if he learns to play like Bale he could achieve something.

Arsenals kit this year doesn't have the ability to change and evolve, it is what it is. You can't assign the same principles to a rock as you would a river. In Kenedy's case, though it may well be an observation, it's being made on limited amounts of data. The kid is 19... Far from the stage where one can discern whether he has a "football brain". In fact I think we would be hard pressed to find any 19yr old who we can say with any real assertion has a football brain.

I get where you are coming from greavsie, you are basically analyzing what you've seen. My point of contention is what aspects of his game are being analyzed. To me a 19 yr old should never be scrutinized for not having a football brain. I also don't thing in 45mins of football we can conclude much about technique. So many things could be factored into that influence one technique on a given day, two a day practices, playing out of position, nerves, confidence. In 45mins with limited amounts of actual touches it's just to premature to make those observations.

And talent can be trained up, of course it can, it's just has its limitations within certain individuals. You can train(refine) ore to make steel and that same steel to make an engine. If you did the same with gold you would have a much more effective engine because gold is superior to steel. To say Kenedy can't improve his technique is just not accurate. Whether he can be trained into a hazard is another story. I don't believe we can turn kenedy into gold but I also don't know what raw materials we're working with at this point. What I was able to gather is he's fast and very strong for his age. He seems to work hard for the team. Technical stuff becomes easier for me to evaluate over a longer period, when a player isn't shellshocked from playing in his first game. I mean we all know cuadrado has amazing technique and he has yet to show it at Chelsea.

Perhaps jibe is a poor choice of words when referring to your post Greavsie. I just think many people formulate opinions on limited data and due to their stubbornness and egos they hold onto that opinion well past the expiration date. You may not be that sort of poster and for that I apologize.

[Unionjack 7,531]

Well it doesn't seem it would matter if he was one of ours as Mou doesn't seem to think hes Chelsea ready.

Mourinho was asked about new signing Kenedy, who was given permission by Fluminense to play against Barcelona on Wednesday.

"He’s not ready to play against Arsenal so there’s no point in speaking about him because he isn’t ready to be a choice."

[LAM09 6,777]

I presume either him or Traore will be going out on loan before the window shuts. The latter is probably more ready to play for us.

[Miguelito 459]

Well it doesn't seem it would matter if he was one of ours as Mou doesn't seem to think hes Chelsea ready.

Mourinho was asked about new signing Kenedy, who was given permission by Fluminense to play against Barcelona on Wednesday.

"He’s not ready to play against Arsenal so there’s no point in speaking about him because he isn’t ready to be a choice."

I'm wondering if this meant instead that he doesn't have permission, or the paperwork to play? Meaning we haven't completely signed him or something like that

[Gilvorak 3,734]

I'm wondering if this meant instead that he doesn't have permission, or the paperwork to play? Meaning we haven't completely signed him or something like that

That's exactly what that meant.

[Unionjack 7,531]

I'm wondering if this meant instead that he doesn't have permission, or the paperwork to play? Meaning we haven't completely signed him or something like that

Well I'm not a seuth sayer but Mou has said it before if hes thought a players not fit enough yet.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,898]

Well I'm not a seuth sayer but Mou has said it before if hes thought a players not fit enough yet.

It absolutely, 100%, was a reference to issues around the transfer. I watched the press conference and there is no room for doubt whatsoever. We all know by now that Jose expresses himself very awkwardly at times. This may have been one of those but his meaning was nevertheless clear.