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6 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Tuchel will only be a concern if he approves more absurd signings like Lukaku. 

You said it as if the manager at Chelsea has a final say in transfers. Ultimately, it comes down to the board.

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5 hours ago, Blues11 said:

We will never be a fantastic offensive team with our shape and tactics under Tuchel. We're not built to look like City, Bayern, Liverpool, or some of the better offenses in the world. 

 

Excuse me but I exactly want us to look like Bayern for example. Why not? 

Mendy is better than Neuer. And we have Kepa if you really want ball playing GK. He is similar to Manuel. 

James is great this season, easily over Pavard. Davies is amazing but dropped in form lately and Chilwell was also great before injury. Their CBs are all suspect, any of ours could walk in that team. Kimmich and Goretzka are world class but hey Jorginho and Kante are 3rd and 5th in ballon d'or. Highly rated. Kovacic was force before injury. Playing every game, 5 assists... 

They play Muller as AM, we could do the same with Havertz. They were compered before but Kai is way better. 

Wingers... They have Coman, Gnabry and Sane. We have Ziyech, Pulisic, CHO. Mount and Werner also occupy this position. So similar.

Lewandowski vs Lukaku is biggest difference but Rom is also someone with reputation of world class striker. We pay 100m for him after all. 

So in this 4231 setup Bayern is playing I really think we could do the same and be that offensive force. Really don't see quality differences in our squads. It's coaching and mindset. They were interested in many of our players we are not happy with. Pulisic, Havertz, Werner, CHO. Now Rudiger. I'm sure they would use them much better. 

                        Neuer 

Pavard Upamecano Sule Davies 

             Kimmich Goretzka 

        Sane      Muller      Gnabry 

                Lewandowski 

 

                 Mendy 

James Silva Rudiger Chilwell 

          Kante Jorginho 

Mount     Havertz     CHO 

                 Lukaku 

Also TT played 4231 and this total football already in Dortmund. I'm interested when he looks our squad does he think we have some weak spots that we cannot implement it here? 

I have been saying even last season that 3atb and the way we play is not sustainable long term. 

I really hope he makes these changes. 

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7 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Who else? We changed them all 🤣🤣

Jesus you took offence last time someone suggested you were hinting at Tuchel could get changed out and here we are again, reopening the next manager thread 🤣


 

Think some people are a bit forgetful in how much of a shambles we were as a collective prior to his arrival last season.

Ok this season, we’ve hit a rocky spell but we are still third, still in a very good position to be in the title race imo, wouldn’t panic.

Without Tuchel this team wouldn’t be anywhere near as good. Not surprised either when you’ve got 6 attackers who are inconsistent, not ruthless and somehow a few of them struggle to play together, you’re likely to drop points. 

 

Edited by OneMoSalah
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6 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

Excuse me but I exactly want us to look like Bayern for example. Why not? 

Mendy is better than Neuer. And we have Kepa if you really want ball playing GK. He is similar to Manuel. 

James is great this season, easily over Pavard. Davies is amazing but dropped in form lately and Chilwell was also great before injury. Their CBs are all suspect, any of ours could walk in that team. Kimmich and Goretzka are world class but hey Jorginho and Kante are 3rd and 5th in ballon d'or. Highly rated. Kovacic was force before injury. Playing every game, 5 assists... 

They play Muller as AM, we could do the same with Havertz. They were compered before but Kai is way better

Wingers... They have Coman, Gnabry and Sane. We have Ziyech, Pulisic, CHO. Mount and Werner also occupy this position. So similar.

Lewandowski vs Lukaku is biggest difference but Rom is also someone with reputation of world class striker. We pay 100m for him after all. 

So in this 4231 setup Bayern is playing I really think we could do the same and be that offensive force. Really don't see quality differences in our squads. It's coaching and mindset. They were interested in many of our players we are not happy with. Pulisic, Havertz, Werner, CHO. Now Rudiger. I'm sure they would use them much better. 

                        Neuer 

Pavard Upamecano Sule Davies 

             Kimmich Goretzka 

        Sane      Muller      Gnabry 

                Lewandowski 

 

                 Mendy 

James Silva Rudiger Chilwell 

          Kante Jorginho 

Mount     Havertz     CHO 

                 Lukaku 

Also TT played 4231 and this total football already in Dortmund. I'm interested when he looks our squad does he think we have some weak spots that we cannot implement it here? 

I have been saying even last season that 3atb and the way we play is not sustainable long term. 

I really hope he makes these changes. 

What a load of nonsense.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Blues Forever said:

What a load of nonsense.

I don't know if you wake up from years ago but Neuer is not the same as before. Mendy is in top3 GKs now by pretty much everyone. His competition are Alisson, Ederson, Donnarumma. Neuer dropped from top5.

About attacking players my point is that our players would produce similar numbers in their team. Pep didn’t really use Sane as a starter in PL? I would not want Coman here. He has similar value as Pulisic, Werner for example on transfermarkt and lower than Mount. My point is our attackers can be the same as theirs but they are not for some reason. Put CHO in Bundesliga, he would have Sancho numbers. 

Muller had great career but Kai is natural successor. Again, check his numbers in Bundesliga and how highly rated he is. 

Why are Havertz, Pulisic not our Muller and Gnabry? Because of quality? I don't think so. 

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5 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

I don't know if you wake up from years ago but Neuer is not the same as before. Mendy is in top3 GKs now by pretty much everyone. His competition are Alisson, Ederson, Donnarumma. Neuer dropped from top5.

Neuer isn't in his prime, but he is still among one of the top 5 Gks. He was arguably the best GK in 2020 and helped Bayern won sextuple. Currently the top 5 GKs are Courtois, Oblak, Alisson, Ederson, and Neuer. After that you have Navas, Donnarumma, Handanovic, Mendy, and Maignan in the top 10.

5 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

About attacking players my point is that our players would produce similar numbers in their team. Pep didn’t really use Sane as a starter in PL? I would not want Coman here. He has similar value as Pulisic, Werner for example on transfermarkt and lower than Mount. My point is our attackers can be the same as theirs but they are not for some reason. Put CHO in Bundesliga, he would have Sancho numbers. 

Really? Pulisic himself wasn't even prolific at Dortmund, there is no evidence CHO would even have Sancho numbers.

5 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Muller had great career but Kai is natural successor. Again, check his numbers in Bundesliga and how highly rated he is. 

Why are Havertz, Pulisic not our Muller and Gnabry? Because of quality? I don't think so. 

I don't deny Havertz is highly rated, but you claimed Havertz is way better than Muller which clearly not true. Higher potential yes, but at the moment Muller all round game is still superior than Havertz.

Edited by Blues Forever
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6 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

I don't know if you wake up from years ago but Neuer is not the same as before. Mendy is in top3 GKs now by pretty much everyone. His competition are Alisson, Ederson, Donnarumma. Neuer dropped from top5.

About attacking players my point is that our players would produce similar numbers in their team. Pep didn’t really use Sane as a starter in PL? I would not want Coman here. He has similar value as Pulisic, Werner for example on transfermarkt and lower than Mount. My point is our attackers can be the same as theirs but they are not for some reason. Put CHO in Bundesliga, he would have Sancho numbers. 

Muller had great career but Kai is natural successor. Again, check his numbers in Bundesliga and how highly rated he is. 

Why are Havertz, Pulisic not our Muller and Gnabry? Because of quality? I don't think so. 

Definitely quality related.

I don’t think its actually in doubt re quality, our guys have potential (CHO, Kai, Pulisic) but Sane, Muller, Gnabry, Coman all have got proven quality. I don’t buy that our guys would have similar numbers there and using Sancho as a comparison when he has played in one of the most dysfunctional PL footballing teams of the last 10 years with those quality of footballers is hardly a good barometer either. Even then we have seen good numbers don’t necessarily mean players will fit a style or system at other teams (Ziyech, Lukaku and Werner here) but at Bayern those guys, they are clearly in the mould or philosophy of players that suits a clear philosophy and project.

On Muller again, he has probably been the most written off footballer of the last 10 years, or one of them. I mean he has been a huge part of every successful Bayern Munich team he’s played in since 2009-10 playing virtually every position from number 8, number 10, on the wings and as a CF and Gnabry is well, Gnabry, his record since leaving Arsenal speaks for itself.

Those attackers they have, they have quality and they have consistency. And they suit the philosophy. 

Re Muller again - I don’t think people actually realise how much he has actually achieved. Like he isn’t maybe the best footballer in terms of his technical skills (not bad either though) etc but he has obviously got ability, huge footballing intelligence and almost 300 career goals for club and country, being a regular under every manager since van Gaal at Bayern. Winning a world cup, several CLs, several league titles etc. If Kai achieves half of what he has he will do very well. All good talking about Kai as a potential heir/generational talent/highly rated etc but we have also seen long term success isn’t a given for anyone (which whilst we are talking about Germany, Ozil is the perfect example- a player who I think is to this day is one of the most talented footballers that I have ever seen or for instance, in the PL, Wayne Rooney who started to go off the boil before he was 30 when he should of really continued and cemented his place as one of the best of his generation). You have to start doing it and keep doing it every season.

Plus on Sane, the season City won PL with record points, most wins, most away points, most goals and best goal difference, Sane played virtually every game and had double figure PL goals (10) and assists (15). That to date is renowned as Pep’s best team at City and one of the best PL teams of all time. 

Edited by OneMoSalah
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Fact is we cant really tell whats what as a large proportion of this squad wasnt picked by the manager, However he had a smashing time when he came in and has brought us stability and a great overall feel to the club and squad.

I'd question who he has greenlighted to come in but how much choice our managers really get is anybodys guess.

Last couple months has seen us spiral a bit but im fairly confident we will turn it around soon and def make top 4, But that is a minimum, The best way to judge is usally after xmas but with the title race still pretty close between 3 clubs ill remain patient until its totally lost.

Klopp took years to sort out liverpool ok had a load of dead wood but still, I think its far too early to be thinking of sacking TT

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10 hours ago, Jase said:

You said it as if the manager at Chelsea has a final say in transfers. Ultimately, it comes down to the board.

Tuchel publicly stated he wanted a #9 who was a presence in the box and had his back against defenders. He then went on to praise the likes of Haaland, Lewa, Kane, and Lukaku.

From everything I've gathered, he pushed for this move. If this move sets us back, (which already has) he needs to be held accountable. 

Edited by MoroccanBlue
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He wont get sacked neither should he. I remember so many claimed that Klopp etc needed 3 seasons at least to get going so we should be tolerable. Yet a few are asking for the axe.....bonkers.

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On 17/12/2021 at 00:56, NikkiCFC said:

 

Excuse me but I exactly want us to look like Bayern for example. Why not? 

Mendy is better than Neuer. And we have Kepa if you really want ball playing GK. He is similar to Manuel. 

James is great this season, easily over Pavard. Davies is amazing but dropped in form lately and Chilwell was also great before injury. Their CBs are all suspect, any of ours could walk in that team. Kimmich and Goretzka are world class but hey Jorginho and Kante are 3rd and 5th in ballon d'or. Highly rated. Kovacic was force before injury. Playing every game, 5 assists... 

They play Muller as AM, we could do the same with Havertz. They were compered before but Kai is way better. 

Wingers... They have Coman, Gnabry and Sane. We have Ziyech, Pulisic, CHO. Mount and Werner also occupy this position. So similar.

Lewandowski vs Lukaku is biggest difference but Rom is also someone with reputation of world class striker. We pay 100m for him after all. 

So in this 4231 setup Bayern is playing I really think we could do the same and be that offensive force. Really don't see quality differences in our squads. It's coaching and mindset. They were interested in many of our players we are not happy with. Pulisic, Havertz, Werner, CHO. Now Rudiger. I'm sure they would use them much better. 

                        Neuer 

Pavard Upamecano Sule Davies 

             Kimmich Goretzka 

        Sane      Muller      Gnabry 

                Lewandowski 

 

                 Mendy 

James Silva Rudiger Chilwell 

          Kante Jorginho 

Mount     Havertz     CHO 

                 Lukaku 

Also TT played 4231 and this total football already in Dortmund. I'm interested when he looks our squad does he think we have some weak spots that we cannot implement it here? 

I have been saying even last season that 3atb and the way we play is not sustainable long term. 

I really hope he makes these changes. 

I do believe Tuchel would experiment more but with our current squad I don't think he trust that we can change and be a good team. 

The main reason I think is actually our midfield. When we ran the 4-3-3 under Lampard, often we would be exposed by teams pressing our midfield.

We either have holding midfielders who don't do well keeping possession on their own, can't shoot, not good close to the box, or we have attacking midfielders who aren't very versatile and don't defend well. That's why our current setup is probably the best for our midfield because it gives them more channels to pass to the wing backs and center backs. Less pressure on them so they can sit back and just distribute. 

I was excited for Saul because I thought he could have a role in certain formations but he looks all out of confidence...not good. 

You mentioned Goretzka and Kimmich....Goretzka is one of the more versatile midfielders in the game and Kimmich is no slouch in every department either. Much better all-around midfielders than anything we have. 

Tuchel has done wonders but he needs to prepare this team better for when we go down a goal or make some adjustments sooner against weaker opposition. We have become predictable and it has shown lately. 

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Well if MF is the problem we can address that on the market and Gallagher is coming back. I also heard this system also protects Silva. With Rudiger and Azpilicueta leaving 2 CBs are coming and let me tell you I'm growing on Kounde even in back 4. In top 5 leagues only City conceded less goals than Sevilla. 2nd one will be tall and strong like De Ligt or Fofana. Plus Tchouameni. Bring Broja back. Young and exciting team for the future. Let them play attacking football like TT did in Dortmund. When was the last time we had that? Under Ancelotti? 

                 Mendy (Kepa) 

James  Kounde  Fofana  Chilwell 

        Gallagher  Tchouameni 

  Mount        Havertz        CHO 

                Lukaku (Broja) 

 

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On 17/12/2021 at 23:43, MoroccanBlue said:

Tuchel publicly stated he wanted a #9 who was a presence in the box and had his back against defenders. He then went on to praise the likes of Haaland, Lewa, Kane, and Lukaku.

From everything I've gathered, he pushed for this move. If this move sets us back, (which already has) he needs to be held accountable. 

He praised all of them but all are different type of strikers. 

Maybe Tuchel did want Lukaku but based on what's going on on the pitch, it doesn't look to be the case because the latter looks ill suited to the team. Won't be surprised if Tuchel just went along with the club on signing Lukaku. They were trying to push for Haaland back in January before Tuchel even came in. 

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14 hours ago, Jase said:

He praised all of them but all are different type of strikers. 

Maybe Tuchel did want Lukaku but based on what's going on on the pitch, it doesn't look to be the case because the latter looks ill suited to the team. Won't be surprised if Tuchel just went along with the club on signing Lukaku. They were trying to push for Haaland back in January before Tuchel even came in. 

I think the bolded is a given. It's a never-ending cycle.

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6 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

 

Silva will be 38 at the start of the next season.

Also he will be much more exposed in back 4.

And with Kounde I would prefer 2nd CB to be taller. Would not be comfy with 178cm and 183cm pairing.

De Ligt is on the market it seems. Chalobah could be great even in this system I think. Silva will eventually lose starting spot but still will be important player.

I can also see why Chris is not sure about new contract. Once we go back to back 4 he may easily become 5th guy.

Chiesa ok.

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