Radamel Falcao

[Sidzeret 2,257]

And how come when someone provides consistently balls for someone else to score has nothing to do with his ability?

You're making Benzema sound like fucking Ozil here.

He never constantly provide assists and all the more, when Ronaldo is at the receiving end, he'll convert even half chances( you said that yourself) and such goals have more to do with the actual goalscorer than the man with the assist.

[Barbara 15,149]

So you're whole point is based on the fact that Benzema is living in the shadows of Ronaldo and was being treated unfairly by being rotated with Higuain. Still doesn't make him a proven world class goal scorer like Falcao.

You're making Benzema sound like fucking Ozil here.

He never constantly provide assists and all the more, when Ronaldo is at the receiving end, he'll convert even half chances( you said that yourself) and such goals have more to do with the actual goalscorer than the man with the assist.

I'm making none of those things. You are the one making him look much worse than he is. I was never comparing him to Falcao to start with (that was you and The Skipper), I was correcting you in some of your wrong assumptions about Karim (certainly because you know very little of him to properly speak about him) and I provided data to justify the point I was trying to make - which was basically correct your wrong assumptions. I've never even mentioned Falcao in my post except to say he and a whole bunch of other strikers are clear improvement from what we have.

You said he has assists not because of his ability to make a pass, but because it's Ronaldo who's netting this assists. What I'm saying is if he didn't have the ability to bring a good pass, Ronaldo wouldn't receive the ball to score. Did you know that 35% of RM goals last season (57 - such a coincidence as that's exactly the amount of goals Cris scored) don't come from an assist? And you know why is that? Because many of Cris' goals don't come from assists as he receives the ball in the counter and pass by half opposition, cuts in, or dribbles, or whatever and shoots. Many of his goals are scored like that and if I had a way to dig those stats by Karim, I'm sure I'd find many of them being for other goalscorers and not only Ronaldo as you implied. Also other players for RM scored in the same fashion because RM was a counter-attack team based. And still some of those assists are counted by fouls and penalties won by the players - which I'll never agree as being an assist, but still statistically that's how they count it.

You are the saying I was making Karim look like Ozil,I just said 15 assists is more than many AM's in the world have. Just look at EPL last season and you'll probably find 2-3 players at most among the top teams (or the whole table) that had more assists. Then you completely dismiss the player saying he only has as many assists because he has Ronaldo playing by his side. I've never compared him to Ozil, but as you did, I guess 15 assists aren't that far from 20...

If you like one player better or if you think a player is better than another, good for you, that's your right, taste and perception are subjective. But the moment you use unfounded reasoning to assess someone (again, I'm not talking about the comparison) as you bluntly dismissed Benzema, you're wrong. So you can say Falcao is more prolific, you can say he's a better striker, a better player whatever you want. But you can't say 1) Benzema can't play at both sides of the pitch because he can. Watch the vid The Skipper provided and you'll see him right, left and center, playing with his right and left foot. 2) That someone with 15 assists only had them because of the strikers they're assisting to. That's not only ridiculous, but counter-productive. The quality of whoever nets the ball doesn't take away the credit of who provided them with the assist.

I mean, you can say those things (and everything else you'd like), you're just going to be corrected on them because although you have the right to say them, it doesn't make them right as proved by vids, stats and everything else Skipper and I answered to you. You like Falcao better? Good for you, I may even like him better too, I haven't stopped to think about it. It doesn't mean Benzema isn't a good striker, who can't play in the two sides of the pitch and centered and who links up very well and consequently provides tons of assists to his teammates.

That was my whole point, not to say he was living off the shadows of someone, who brought Ronaldo to the convo in the first place was you, or don't you remember that? I just corrected you that having Ronaldo by his side takes away from his stats, doesn't add to them. So you can stop right there putting words on my posts that weren't there.

[Las7 951]

Real stats are skewed - you can't really compare Madrid or Barca to us because firstly they play a League which is no where near as competitive as the EPL - because of the way TV rights are divided in La Liga.

Second of all Benzema has rarely shown consistency on the biggest stage:

In 19 matches against Barca Benzema has 4 goals;

His only goals while at Real in the CL knockout stages are against Gala(1); Borussia(1); Apoel(2); CSKA(1); Lyon(2) - that's 5 opponents in 5 years and with the exception of his goals against Lyon none of his other goals turned out to be key.

When you are at a club like Real pretty much what you do in knockout rounds and against Barca it's all that counts and he has been underwhelming. There were far bigger expectations for Benzema when he was a teen in France and he has faltered for Real and the French National Team. Simply put he has not reached the heights that were expected. Right now he is a level below Falcao who was a KEY player for Madrid and Porto that ensured both teams won silverware and especially in Madrid's case he was key in getting them qualified in the CL.

If you look at La Liga right now Benzema probably is not even in the top 10 performers there.

[Barbara 15,149]

Real stats are skewed - you can't really compare Madrid or Barca to us because firstly they play a League which is no where near as competitive as the EPL - because of the way TV rights are divided in La Liga.

Second of all Benzema has rarely shown consistency on the biggest stage:

In 19 matches against Barca Benzema has 4 goals;

His only goals while at Real in the CL knockout stages are against Gala(1); Borussia(1); Apoel(2); CSKA(1); Lyon(2) - that's 5 opponents in 5 years and with the exception of his goals against Lyon none of his other goals turned out to be key.

When you are at a club like Real pretty much what you do in knockout rounds and against Barca it's all that counts and he has been underwhelming. There were far bigger expectations for Benzema when he was a teen in France and he has faltered for Real and the French National Team. Simply put he has not reached the heights that were expected. Right now he is a level below Falcao who was a KEY player for Madrid and Porto that ensured both teams won silverware and especially in Madrid's case he was key in getting them qualified in the CL.

If you look at La Liga right now Benzema probably is not even in the top 10 performers there.

(almost) all of which I can agree, mate, that's a way to talk about his deficiencies that makes sense. It's reliable data.

Still in my discussion with him I disagreed that 1) he can't play at any side of the pitch 2) he only assisted because he had Ronaldo there. His linkup is very good, regardless of who he links up with.

Also, I disagree with you about the Barça thing. The first 5-6 or whatever (can't remember exactly the number) matches Ronaldo played against them he hasn't scored and now we're going to question how much of a big stage striker Ronaldo is because of that?

We need strikers better than the ones we have, that will score against the teams we've dropped points lately: Newcastle, Stoke, Basel... Benzema can provide that and RM is willing to offload him. We don't know if Liverpool will offload Suarez, or Monaco Falcao, or Dortmund Lewa, etc... while it's sort of known fact that Florentino (not sure about Zizou or Carlo) wants to negotiate Benzema. If we focus on going only for guys we may never bring because they won't leave or will leave somewhere else we will risk to end up with another Eto'o because another Rooney couldn't come. maybe we should be opened to a guy like Karim who has plenty of qualities and is much better than the ones we do have.

I've watched nearly all matches Madrid played in Mourinho's first two years there and I felt the need to correct two wrong assumptions about Karim. That's all. Never said he's the best striker for us or is better than Falcao.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

Anyone think we should go for Diego Costa instead? Who will be a little bit cheaper and wouldn't be on the same wages.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

I'm making none of those things. You are the one making him look much worse than he is. I was never comparing him to Falcao to start with (that was you and The Skipper), I was correcting you in some of your wrong assumptions about Karim (certainly because you know very little of him to properly speak about him) and I provided data to justify the point I was trying to make - which was basically correct your wrong assumptions. I've never even mentioned Falcao in my post except to say he and a whole bunch of other strikers are clear improvement from what we have.

You said he has assists not because of his ability to make a pass, but because it's Ronaldo who's netting this assists. What I'm saying is if he didn't have the ability to bring a good pass, Ronaldo wouldn't receive the ball to score. Did you know that 35% of RM goals last season (57 - such a coincidence as that's exactly the amount of goals Cris scored) don't come from an assist? And you know why is that? Because many of Cris' goals don't come from assists as he receives the ball in the counter and pass by half opposition, cuts in, or dribbles, or whatever and shoots. Many of his goals are scored like that and if I had a way to dig those stats by Karim, I'm sure I'd find many of them being for other goalscorers and not only Ronaldo as you implied. Also other players for RM scored in the same fashion because RM was a counter-attack team based. And still some of those assists are counted by fouls and penalties won by the players - which I'll never agree as being an assist, but still statistically that's how they count it.

You are the saying I was making Karim look like Ozil,I just said 15 assists is more than many AM's in the world have. Just look at EPL last season and you'll probably find 2-3 players at most among the top teams (or the whole table) that had more assists. Then you completely dismiss the player saying he only has as many assists because he has Ronaldo playing by his side. I've never compared him to Ozil, but as you did, I guess 15 assists aren't that far from 20...

If you like one player better or if you think a player is better than another, good for you, that's your right, taste and perception are subjective. But the moment you use unfounded reasoning to assess someone (again, I'm not talking about the comparison) as you bluntly dismissed Benzema, you're wrong. So you can say Falcao is more prolific, you can say he's a better striker, a better player whatever you want. But you can't say 1) Benzema can't play at both sides of the pitch because he can. Watch the vid The Skipper provided and you'll see him right, left and center, playing with his right and left foot. 2) That someone with 15 assists only had them because of the strikers they're assisting to. That's not only ridiculous, but counter-productive. The quality of whoever nets the ball doesn't take away the credit of who provided them with the assist.

I mean, you can say those things (and everything else you'd like), you're just going to be corrected on them because although you have the right to say them, it doesn't make them right as proved by vids, stats and everything else Skipper and I answered to you. You like Falcao better? Good for you, I may even like him better too, I haven't stopped to think about it. It doesn't mean Benzema isn't a good striker, who can't play in the two sides of the pitch and centered and who links up very well and consequently provides tons of assists to his teammates.

That was my whole point, not to say he was living off the shadows of someone, who brought Ronaldo to the convo in the first place was you, or don't you remember that? I just corrected you that having Ronaldo by his side takes away from his stats, doesn't add to them. So you can stop right there putting words on my posts that weren't there.

You want me to stop words in my post when clearly you are the one doing that. When did i say he can't play on both sides of the pitch?

Its just insane that you have come up with some stats for Benzema which has clearly nothing to do with this argument here. He might be a masterclass counter attacking threat, but coming to link up play, Falcao is way better( I'm making that comparison here because i never put Benzema down in the first place, it was more like a comparison to Falcao)

Rest of your post is blah blah, makes no sense.

p.s. i dunno why i made those words bold.

[Las7 951]

Anyone think we should go for Diego Costa instead? Who will be a little bit cheaper and wouldn't be on the same wages.

What makes you think he would be cheaper?

I don't see Atletico selling Diego Costa for less than Falcao myself, they are still in the CL; they look like they will qualify for the CL next year. The only reason Madrid sold Falcao is because he has larger wages and was owned 55% by a 3rd party who wanted to cash out.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

What makes you think he would be cheaper?

I don't see Atletico selling Diego Costa for less than Falcao myself, they are still in the CL; they look like they will qualify for the CL next year. The only reason Madrid sold Falcao is because he has larger wages and was owned 55% by a 3rd party who wanted to cash out.

Well he is just on great form atm, he hasn't proved it for several seasons like Falcao yet so we could get him a bit cheaper even though not by much, probably like £45m compare to Falcao £60m now. And since he is on like 75k at Madrid atm we could just offer him £120-£130k and he would take it, Falcao is probably £250k after taxes.

[Barbara 15,149]

You want me to stop words in my post when clearly you are the one doing that. When did i say he can't play on both sides of the pitch?

Its just insane that you have come up with some stats for Benzema which has clearly nothing to do with this argument here. He might be a masterclass counter attacking threat, but coming to link up play, Falcao is way better( I'm making that comparison here because i never put Benzema down in the first place, it was more like a comparison to Falcao)

Rest of your post is blah blah, makes no sense.

p.s. i dunno why i made those words bold.

Falcao can work in any side but the same can't be said about Benzema.

that's what you said... but maybe you meant side as in team? I understood side of the pitch, if you meant side like a team, then my bad.

I made my words bold so you'd see what I said and what you said, because in your posts you implied I used Ronaldo as an excuse for him (while you were the one who did it, saying Ronaldo is the reason why he has assists) and when you said I made him look better than Ozil, when I didn't. I just said he has good linkup and the fact he has 15 assists is better than other AMs who are there to assist strikers.

It's all good, mate. I just don't like it when people say I said things I didn't - just wanted to clarify that. We can disagree on our opinion about Benzema, despite a few facts brought pro and against him.

Also I read a lot of nonsense in your posts, I'll make sure to point out it in the future and call it blah blah.

[Las7 951]

Well he is just on great form atm, he hasn't proved it for several seasons like Falcao yet so we could get him a bit cheaper even though not by much, probably like £45m compare to Falcao £60m now. And since he is on like 75k at Madrid atm we could just offer him £120-£130k and he would take it, Falcao is probably £250k after taxes.

First of all Costa won't be available in January even for £45 million - since it would put Madrid's season in jeopardy

Second of all in the summer if he maintains his current form they could very well ask for over £50 million for a striker that has had one top class season under his belt and no one rated as World Class a few months ago.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

First of all Costa won't be available in January even for £45 million - since it would put Madrid's season in jeopardy

Second of all in the summer if he maintains his current form they could very well ask for over £50 million for a striker that has had one top class season under his belt and no one rated as World Class a few months ago.

Oh I am not talking about Jan but possibly in the summer, in Jan we are not gonna sign anyone lol apart from Jackson Martinez but he would cost 40m because that is his clause and it is Porto. Well in that case we just need to hope Liverpool don't qualify for CL and we sign Suarez for £60-£70m instead then.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

You're right, Benzema's main problem is consistency. If he sorts that out he's able to be as prolific as Falcao.

Despite his goal droughts he still scores 20-30 a season which is pretty impressive.

Isn't that the problem though? Its like saying if I score loads of goals i'll be like messi...

[Mouri_Matic 560]

Isn't that the problem though? Its like saying if I score loads of goals i'll be like messi...

The 'if' in football. If Terry could run he would be the best defender in the world. If Torres could score we wouldn't have to bash him all the time. If players were ageless we would be unbeatable.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

that's what you said... but maybe you meant side as in team? I understood side of the pitch, if you meant side like a team, then my bad.

That's what i meant, but you know what, i should given more clarity to my statement.

Also that line came out of my frustrations. No offence intended, Barbara. :heart:

[The Skipper 20,593]

Isn't that the problem though? Its like saying if I score loads of goals i'll be like messi...

What I'm saying is is that if Benzema consistently scores throughout the whole season instead of going on dry goal spells he'd get Falcao numbers; which he hasn't been far off anyway since he scored 21 goals last season and the season before that he scored 33 goals (which is Falcao level anyway). It's consistently scoring and getting 30+ goals a season, which he is obviously capable of, that is Benzema's problem.

He seems well on his way to rectifying that this season though.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

What I'm saying is is that if Benzema consistently scores throughout the whole season instead of going on dry goal spells he'd get Falcao numbers; which he hasn't been far off anyway since he scored 21 goals last season and the season before that he scored 33 goals (which is Falcao level anyway). It's consistently scoring and getting 30+ goals a season, which he is obviously capable of, that is Benzema's problem.

He seems well on his way to rectifying that this season though.

ya I know what you're saying...

[The Skipper 20,593]

Its just insane that you have come up with some stats for Benzema which has clearly nothing to do with this argument here. He might be a masterclass counter attacking threat, but coming to link up play, Falcao is way better( I'm making that comparison here because i never put Benzema down in the first place, it was more like a comparison to Falcao)

Sorry to reopen the argument but I'm just dead curious... Explain how Falcao is better than Benzema in link up play?

Could you please give me examples?

And why are you ignoring the fact that Atletico Madrid were a counter attacking side (and still are) when Falcao were there?

Falcao is the better counter attack player by far. It's how he scored most of his goals at Atletico.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

Sorry to reopen the argument but I'm just dead curious... Explain how Falcao is better than Benzema in link up play?

Could you please give me examples?

And why are you ignoring the fact that Atletico Madrid were a counter attacking side (and still are) when Falcao were there?

Falcao is the better counter attack player by far. It's how he scored most of his goals at Atletico.

Now you're pulling reverse psychology to get ahead on an argument. Not gonna work on me, mate.