Closed Man United v Chelsea

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Di Maria isn't a goal scorer, his highest ever tally in his career is 11 goals. His goal scoring record in the last 4 seasons is 9, 7, 9, 11. Hazard on the other hand has scored 12, 22, 14, 17 in his last 4 seasons.

Prior to him virtually playing out of his skin last season, Di Maria was known to be an inconsistent player, a fantastic player on his day, but he had many bad days and that's why Madrid wanted to sell. His reputation seems to have been boosted tremendously off the back of an outstanding season, a great performance in the CL final and Man United paying over the odds. Way too much revisionism.

Hazard is definitely a better player than Di Maria and has been for most of his career . I'm not going to go in depth into it as I normally do because it's a match thread, but it's just amazing how some other guys have such extraordinary reputations here, while Hazard just has more "flair".

He's never been the main man... If Ronaldo was Batman, Bale was Robin DiMaria was Bat Girl... still a super hero but come on.

[Stats 6,987]

Bale? Modric? To each his own I guess...

DiMaria is a very good footballer but I need to see more before I say he's a world beater. Madrid lost him and haven't skipped a beat... That is telling.

And he was sold for footballing reasons. They bought Bale who took his position, they shifted him deeper and he played well going forward, they sold him and bought Kroos who is a better fit.

Bale and Modric were excellent yes but I excluded them because they were no better or worse than Di Maria was imo. I like Hazard a lot and I am a massive fan but I would argue that DI Maria produces consistencies of quality more than Hazard does. Don't get me wrong, Hazard had a very good season last season but he has his games where you see him rip apart an opponent then a next match he is not as effective. Real are starting to click but there have been times this season where you feel they could have done with him. They lost to Sociedad 4-2 and the creativity was just poor. For me there is no way someone can claim Di Maria is a worse player than Hazard when he has been playing brilliant football for quite a while not. It is totally oblivious to mention him as a flavour of the month. He is like Hazard an amazing player.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

Disagree totally. Di Maria was arguably Real's best player last season. Ronaldo scored all the goals but Di Maria created so much of them. You ask any Real fan who was their best player last season and they would tell you it is between Ronaldo and Di Maria. Di Maria was not sold for footballing reasons. Also using that theory is quite irrelevant. It is like me saying Torres is better than Sturridge because we kept Torres and sold Sturridge. But who is better? Sturridge by far. Clubs make errors and I was surprised that Real sold him but you know what they are llike in the transfer window? They always want to buy players for astronomical fees who sell shirts etc. That meant Di Maria was sacrificed. You ask most Real fans who they would rather have in their team, James Rodriguez or Di Maria and most would have Di Maria imo.

Both Hazard and Di Maria are very quality players. I wouldn't necessarily say one is better than the other but it is not a ludicrous statement to say Di Maria is better. He is not just some flavour of the month as well. He has been one of the most consistent players in Europe for a while. His form at United is not no luck. He is a quality player.

Well there is always a footballing reason why Real decided to sell Di Maria

With James coming, the manager has to choose between James, Ronaldo, Bale, Di Maria. And Carlo choose to sell Di Maria. Somebody must know why.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Bale and Modric were excellent yes but I excluded them because they were no better or worse than Di Maria was imo. I like Hazard a lot and I am a massive fan but I would argue that DI Maria produces consistencies of quality more than Hazard does. Don't get me wrong, Hazard had a very good season last season but he has his games where you see him rip apart an opponent then a next match he is not as effective. Real are starting to click but there have been times this season where you feel they could have done with him. They lost to Sociedad 4-2 and the creativity was just poor. For me there is no way someone can claim Di Maria is a worse player than Hazard when he has been playing brilliant football for quite a while not. It is totally oblivious to mention him as a flavour of the month. He is like Hazard an amazing player.

He's done that for only one year, last year... Before that no one ever mention DiMaria and consistency in the same breath!

And on their day who produces the better overall quality?

If you even try and say DiMaria....

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

he knows how to score them. In a team with Ronaldo, Benzema and others he wasn't in the goal positions very often. He doesn't hesitate in front of the goal, he doesn't have a bad decision making in front of the goal. Given where and how he plays he just doesn't get in the positions often enough.

Did I ever say Hazard is just flair? No, I didn't.

Thing is a dribbler is normally perceived as a better player simply because of the flair, talent and tricks. And while that might make him better than others, sometimes it doesn't. I said clearly I wouldn't pick and I highlighted things about players such as Fabregas and di María that sometimes aren't given credit enough like players who dribble (although di María has quite some dribbles on himself)

(a) And where does Di Maria play exactly? He was basically played as a "second left winger" / CM in Ancelotti's 4-3-3 last season to accommodate Bale, but he's spent majority of his career on the right wing.

(i) Hazard is much more than just flair, tricks and what you're saying. It's not a matter of "perceiving." He's a huge creative force and a brilliant passer.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

As if the Galaticos are gonna let a world class player in his prime leave their team. Come on...

[Stats 6,987]

Di Maria isn't a goal scorer, his highest ever tally in his career is 11 goals. His goal scoring record in the last 4 seasons is 9, 7, 9, 11. Hazard on the other hand has scored 12, 22, 14, 17 in his last 4 seasons.

Prior to him virtually playing out of his skin last season, Di Maria was known to be an inconsistent player, a fantastic player on his day, but he had many bad days and that's why Madrid wanted to sell. His reputation seems to have been boosted tremendously off the back of an outstanding season, a great performance in the CL final and Man United paying over the odds. Way too much revisionism.

Hazard is definitely a better player than Di Maria and has been for most of his career . I'm not going to go in depth into it as I normally do because it's a match thread, but it's just amazing how some other guys have such extraordinary reputations here, while Hazard just has more "flair".

He has never needed to score with the likes of Ronaldo in his team. He creates and that is the sort of player he is. Look at his creativity and what he does on the football pitch. Just look at his stats at United in a short period of time. We have bought in Costa and that has taken the pressure of Hazard. The link is Hazard scores less because we are more of an all-round team with more capable goalscorers. Last season Di Maria was exceptional and what I have seen he has been nominated ahead of the likes of Messi for best American award in La Liga last season. Sanchez is Arsenal's main man and you see he has scored like 6 more goals than Hazard I think so far this season. That does not mean he is a better player, just that his team has more reliance on him than we do on Hazard.

Well there is always a footballing reason why Real decided to sell Di Maria

James coming

Di Maria was outstanding and it was not because he was an inferior player, Real decided to cash in. Many Real fans will tell you that James Rodriguez was not needed but that is Real for you.

He's done that for only one year, last year... Before that no one ever mention DiMaria and consistency in the same breath!

Last year is enough. Costa had his real quality season last seaosn but that is enough to recognise him as one the top strikers in Europe. Di Maria is in the same category. As I stated above he has been nominated ahead of some serious contenders as best American performers in that league. Says a lot. You can see the difference Di Maria has made to United already.

There are some real biased/oblivious views on here. People are talking about Di Maria like he is some any decent player. He is quality and like I was saying, it is arguable to say he has put in more consistent performances than Hazard.

[Barbara 15,149]

(a) And where does Di Maria play exactly? He was basically played as a "second left winger" / CM in Ancelotti's 4-3-3 last season to accommodate Bale, but he's spent majority of his career on the right wing.

(i) Hazard is much more than just flair, tricks and what you're saying. It's not a matter of "perceiving." He's a huge creative force and a brilliant passer.

For God's sake!!!!!!!! How many times do I have to repeat I'm not saying Hazard is only flair?

Look, man, I said that sometimes flair players are perceived like that. Did I say 'Hazard is perceived as better because of that?' No, I haven't. I said A DRIBBLER (no name) sometimes is perceived as being better and sometimes he is and in others he isn't. HE = A PLAYER. A being an indefinite article.

What I was saying is that people were picking A, B or C as better. And some people think Hazard is better given the flair, tricks, dribble skills. Which is THEIR RIGHT. Maybe for them that makes a player better than other. I'm just saying some will pick based on flair, others on vision, others on ability to score goals.

I've been keeping myself very neutral on this. I didn't pick anyone, I disagree di María is a flavor of month kind of player, he's on his peak, yes, he's struggled a bit at moments (I suppose no player can go through that in your book and the fans complaining about him). People that called him inconsistent are the usual suspects that are never patient and don't ever understand sometimes players go through bad moments. I just said whoever picks him over the other two won't shock me then I made a series of neutral comments.

The way RM was set up under Mourinho di María was a feeder more than anything, he was there to create chances for Ronaldo, to balance the other flank with his pace (he's very fast). He wasn't in many positions to score. Most of the time he was there in addition to Benzema there was also Higuain.

How many chances Fabregas wasted to score this season? I remember only a couple. playing in the wing, if you don't cut inside, doesn't give you great chances to score and di María more (much more) often than not dribbles and crosses or passes while running. Isn't that basic? Where's the angle he could score from?

So now every AM should get in positions to score because they're attacking midfielders. Please. Robben scores a lot because even though everyone knows he'll cut in and shoot he excels on that and just do it. That was never what Angel did most of the times (although he sometimes does it).

If you and whoever else want to think he's being revised and consider him flavor of the month, good for you. I don't and I left my two cents.

Last year that was Modric or Bale for me.

DiMaria is a very good player but he's never EVER been the focal point of a teams attack. Cesc has, Hazard has. If after this year DiMaria plays out of his skin for the entire season he will be in the conversation, right now he's the new kid on the block who everyone is in awe of because he's fast.

I meant tactically and how he played the role he was given to a T. Matic is an instrumental player for us, it doesn't mean he's the focal point (although he's the boss of our midfield)

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

(1) Hazard goals/assists in the last 3 seasons: Angel Di Maria goals/assists in the last 3 season

2011/12 : 20 goals 17 assists 2011/12 : 7 goals 16 assists

2012/13 : 14 goals 19 assists 2012/13 : 9 goals 10 assists

2013/14 : 17 goals 9 assists 2013/14 : 11 goals 22 assists

Total : 51 goals 45 assists Total : 27 goals 48 assists

Total games : 156 games started Total : 128 games started

(All stats from ESPN)

Individual honours in their careers so far.

Eden Hazard :

• UNFP Ligue 1 Player of the Year (2): 2010–11, 2011–12
• UNFP Ligue 1 Young Player of the Year (2): 2008–09, 2009–10
• UNFP Ligue 1 Team of the Year (3): 2009–10, 2010–11, 2011–12
• UNFP Player of the Month (3): March 2010,^[244] March 2011,^[245] March 2012
• PFA Young Player of the Year (1): 2013–14
• PFA Team of the Year (2): 2012–13, 2013–14
• Chelsea Player of the Year (1): 2013–14
• Bravo Award (1): 2011^[15]
• Ballon d'Or (23 man short-list)

Di Maria :

• Primeira Liga: Player of the Month April 2010
• 2014 UEFA Champions League Final: Man of the Match
• UEFA Champions League Team of the Season: 2013–14
• 2014 FIFA World Cup: Dream Team

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

As if the Galaticos are gonna let a world class player in his prime leave their team. Come on...

to join a club w/o CL

Di Maria was outstanding and it was not because he was an inferior player, Real decided to cash in. Many Real fans will tell you that James Rodriguez was not needed but that is Real for you.

My bad I've edited my post while you replying. Carlo think he is, rather than James, Ronaldo, Bale, or maybe even Isco.

[Barbara 15,149]

(1) Hazard goals/assists in the last 3 seasons: Angel Di Maria goals/assists in the last 3 season

2011/12 : 20 goals 17 assists 2011/12 : 7 goals 16 assists

2012/13 : 14 goals 19 assists 2012/13 : 9 goals 10 assists

2013/14 : 17 goals 9 assists 2013/14 : 11 goals 22 assists

Total : 51 goals 45 assists Total : 27 goals 48 assists

Total games : 156 games started Total : 128 games started

(All stats from ESPN)

Individual honours in their careers so far.

Eden Hazard :

• UNFP Ligue 1 Player of the Year (2): 2010–11, 2011–12
• UNFP Ligue 1 Young Player of the Year (2): 2008–09, 2009–10
• UNFP Ligue 1 Team of the Year (3): 2009–10, 2010–11, 2011–12
• UNFP Player of the Month (3): March 2010,^[244] March 2011,^[245] March 2012
• PFA Young Player of the Year (1): 2013–14
• PFA Team of the Year (2): 2012–13, 2013–14
• Chelsea Player of the Year (1): 2013–14
• Bravo Award (1): 2011^[15]
• Ballon d'Or (23 man short-list)

Di Maria :

• Primeira Liga: Player of the Month April 2010
• 2014 UEFA Champions League Final: Man of the Match
• UEFA Champions League Team of the Season: 2013–14
• 2014 FIFA World Cup: Dream Team

yep, let's compare La Liga and playing against one of the best teams of all times with the amazing, outstanding, competitive, real tough Ligue 1. Not to say the team's official penalty taker for a while now...

Right, mate.

We've got it, you think Hazard is better. You can rest your case.

edit: and the best part is you adding awards when di María played alongside one of the best players of all time and against a player many already consider the best of all time (I suppose Hazard would have won as many awards and would have scored as many goals playing with Ronaldo and against Messi). I'm not even going to make fun of it as much as you deserve, but whatever....

And also notice I never disagreed with your opinion about who's better, I just disagreed about your 'bold' statement that one is definitely better.

IF I had to vote now on a poll, to say whoever is the best between the three, all things considered so far this season, I'd vote for Cesc... I'm not even voting who's the best player, but who's been best so far.

You don't need to bring Wikipedia on me about Cesc though.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

The evidence suggest Hazard outstrips Di Maria statistically and is miles ahead in terms of individual accolades. All this while Di Maria has had the privilege of playing in the most "visible" and appealing club in the world, littered with world stars, the most expensively assembled side ever (seriously) and alongside one of the greatest footballers in history. While Hazard was given passes to Torres and Ba, Di Maria was given them to Ronaldo and Benzema. If you want to argue Hazard has always been the PK taker for his side and has more chances to score goals, I can argue that Di Maria was the designated set-piece taker which bloats the "assist" stat.

Individual accolades are clear. Hazard is one of the greatest talents of his generation and a special player, Di Maria is a fantastic player with one great season and a sensational performance in the CL final. There's a reason why Hazard has been considered a future Ballon d'Or winner since he was a teen and Di Maria, a talented winger for Benfica was not. .It's easier to pick out Hazard's faults because we see him every game, but then we see the fancy highlights and the odd match of these guys and then they're better than our best guys when they're not.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

yep, let's compare La Liga and playing against one of the best teams of all times with the amazing, outstanding, competitive, real tough Ligue 1. Not to say the team's official penalty taker for a while now...

Right, mate.

We've got it, you think Hazard is better. You can rest your case.

edit: and the best part is you adding awards when di María played alongside one of the best players of all time and against a player many already consider the best of all time (I suppose Hazard would have won as many awards and would have scored as many goals playing with Ronaldo and against Messi). I'm not even going to make fun of it as much as you deserve, but whatever....

And also notice I never disagreed with your opinion about who's better, I just disagreed about your 'bold' statement that one is definitely better.

IF I had to vote now on a poll, to say whoever is the best between the three, all things considered so far this season, I'd vote for Cesc... I'm not even voting who's the best player, but who's been best so far.

You don't need to bring Wikipedia on me about Cesc though.

(1) That's a weak point, because even if Ronaldo and Messi didn't play in La Liga, other players will be considered instead of Di Maria (with his last season there, he will have but prior to that, no)

La Liga also has their awards segregated into different categories : i.e best midfielder, best defender , where players won't be in direct competition with Messi and Ronaldo, Di Maria never won best midfielder.

(2) Now you're just being rude. You have no argument.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's impossible to produce right or wrong answers when you talk about player comparisons.

For my money I'd take hazard over DiMaria 9/10 times.

[Barbara 15,149]

The evidence suggest Hazard outstrips Di Maria statistically and is miles ahead in terms of individual accolades. All this while Di Maria has had the privilege of playing in the most "visible" and appealing club in the world, littered with world stars, the most expensively assembled side ever (seriously) and alongside one of the greatest footballers in history. While Hazard was given passes to Torres and Ba, Di Maria was given them to Ronaldo and Benzema. If you want to argue Hazard has always been the PK taker for his side and has more chances to score goals, I can argue that Di Maria was the designated set-piece taker which bloats the "assist" stat.

Individual accolades are clear. Hazard is one of the greatest talents of his generation and a special player, Di Maria is a fantastic player with one great season and a sensational performance in the CL final. There's a reason why Hazard has been considered a future Ballon d'Or winner since he was a teen and Di Maria, a talented winger for Benfica was not. .It's easier to pick out Hazard's faults because we see him every game, but then we see the fancy highlights and the odd match of these guys and then they're better than our best guys when they're not.

Dude, that's the problem with stats.

Again I'm not disagreeing about who is and isn't better. You're comparing Hazard playing for Lille, at Ligue 1, taking all their penalties and having a team built around him, to a player in a team of galacticos, playing against Messi and Barcelona, in La Liga and with Ronaldo in his team. If in one hand as you say, di Maria assists Ronaldo, at the other hand, Hazard hasn't been overshadowed by such a player, neither has he played second fiddle.

Then you have Hazard at Chelsea - also a penalty taker - that has yet to exploded (although he's been very good), with a lot of inconsistency throughout the two seasons he's played here. For example, his last on field goal scored last season was in the first week of February. Both seasons he's played for us he's been through long periods of being nothing exceptional combined with long periods of being outstanding. He's 23, it's not even fair to compare him to a player in his peak. But you make it look like Hazard is Pelé and di María is Robinho.

I'm sorry, you may have your opinion, you may think Hazard is definitely the best player, but that's only that, your opinion and your opinion was much more likely to be accepted when you didn't decide to bring the stats to support it because those stats are very ignorantly dysfunctional (which is why I have the signature I have for a while now. Non-contextualized stats are the most misleading piece of crap in the sport). Hazard would probably have won none of those awards playing for La Liga and he definitely wouldn't have scored as many goals if he wasn't the penalty taker at Lille and then for some part of his career here.

And just fyi, I've watched di María's every match for two seasons. Last season I haven't watched RM much because Perez is crazy and some of the players treated Mourinho in a really bad way. So I just couldn't watch them. I'm not talking about a player I don't know. Wherever I don't know a player I ask others about him. But I also know who to ask because there are few people at the forum I completely trust their assessment.

(2) Now you're just being rude. You have no argument.

on the contrary, I have a very strong argument. That's my opinion. It's what I think so whatever stats Cesc has or hasn't, I don't need to know, that's my opinion and I've forged it based on whatever reasons I had. Stats, Wikipedia and everything else you want to cite showing that Hazard has been better in any shape, form or condition won't matter because that's my opinion, not a fact that needs to be refuted. No matter how invalid, nonsense, stupid or whatever, that's only my opinion.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's impossible to produce right or wrong answers when you talk about player comparisons.

For my money I'd take hazard over DiMaria 9/10 times.

Oddly enough if someone had asked me who I'd rather have in my team I'd also say Hazard. lol

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

We are agree to disagree then.

Back to the game, can't wait.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Dude, that's the problem with stats.

Again I'm not disagreeing about who is and isn't better. You're comparing Hazard playing for Lille, at Ligue 1, taking all their penalties and having a team built around him, to a player in a team of galacticos, playing against Messi and Barcelona, in La Liga and with Ronaldo in his team. If in one hand as you say, di Maria assists Ronaldo, at the other hand, Hazard hasn't been overshadowed by such a player, neither has he played second fiddle.

Then you have Hazard at Chelsea - also a penalty taker - that has yet to exploded (although he's been very good), with a lot of inconsistency throughout the two seasons he's played here. For example, his last on field goal scored last season was in the first week of February. Both seasons he's played for us he's been through long periods of being nothing exceptional combined with long periods of being outstanding. He's 23, it's not even fair to compare him to a player in his peak. But you make it look like Hazard is Pelé and di María is Robinho.

I'm sorry, you may have your opinion, you may think Hazard is definitely the best player, but that's only that, your opinion and your opinion was much more likely to be accepted when you didn't decide to bring the stats to support it because those stats are very ignorantly dysfunctional (which is why I have the signature I have for a while now. Non-contextualized stats are the most misleading piece of crap in the sport). Hazard would probably have won none of those awards playing for La Liga and he definitely wouldn't have scored as many goals if he wasn't the penalty taker at Lille and then for some part of his career here.

And just fyi, I've watched di María's every match for two seasons. Last season I haven't watched RM much because Perez is crazy and some of the players treated Mourinho in a really bad way. So I just couldn't watch them. I'm not talking about a player I don't know. Wherever I don't know a player I ask others about him to others. But I also know who to ask because there are few people at the forum I completely trust their assessment.

(1) The stats I showed represent a singular season at Lille, the other two were at Chelsea in the EPL. I've already made the point that Di Maria took the set-pieces for Real Madrid and his "assist" stat was bloated because of that and the fact that he's feeding bloody Cristiano Ronaldo.

(2) I've already gone through this with you many times, dear. You're the one making Hazard sound like Nani not me. You've become so critical of him that it blurs the reality of the player he is.. Case in point.

You said he performed mostly in spurts, for a couple of months last season. Hazard started last season slowly and then began to really perform in late October to Mid/late March and got injured against PSG. That's majority of the season, dear and barring the injury, his form would most likely have lasted till May.

Compare that to Bale who won a player of the year award in 2012 for literally, yes literally for preforming half as season, from January to May. You said "Hazard didn't score in open play from Febuary last season to the end of it". In case you didn't notice, Hazard was not our bloody striker, our strikers refused to score goals, Hazard has ALWAYS been a creator first before a goal-scorer, it's to his detriment a little because his shooting technique and shooting power isn't exceptional.

Luis Suarez who was amazing last season and is a striker went on a barren run for a month or so where he didn't score a goal. Rooney was similar when he won the award in 2010.

Do you realize how DIFFICULT it is for an attacking player to be "exceptional" for the entirety of a season? The only players doing it nowadays are Messi and Ronaldo and even they have off days. The standards you've set for him are rather excessive. No reasonable person will do that to a 23 year old.

(3) If you watched him, then you won't have called him a goal scorer which is a ludicrous claim. You'll also know he was inconsistent by the exact same insane standards you judge Hazard by.

"that has yet exploded" ------- Depends on what you mean by exploded. He's been in the PL team of the year back to back (who was the last player to do that in a new league), won YPOTY and was 2nd behind Luis Suarez for POTY all in two seasons. This was voted by his fellow professionals and journalists. Amazing how the inconsistent player keeps receiving such accolades. I think he's been exceptional. Better than I could have imagined and can get better.

"with a lot of inconsistent throughout his two seasons". ----------- I'm sorry but if you really feel that way, then I can't help you.

I hope you one day return to judging Hazard like you do every other player. If you're a fan of his like you say you are, then you should.

[LAM09 6,556]

I don't expect it to be a walk in the park regardless of Utd's shoddy defence, but we should have enough in the locker to claim all three points.