Filipe Luís

[Irakozium257 350]

Dave wasn't the greatest by any stretch when he first came and we were unsure but saw promise, some time on the bench, training, getting used to tactics and plain old hard graft turned him into one of the best full backs in the premier league.

It takes a special player to come into the league and hit the ground running for a team fighting for multiple trophies.

Exactly. Everyone seems to forget how he was basically a nobody when he came here, but I could tell that he had a fierce personality, I was even a fan of him when he was at Marseille. Let's not forget that at the start of the 12/13 season, he was playing rarely, and he was a failure at RW when we lost against Juve. It wasn't until Benitez came and used Ivanovic relatively much at CB that he started gelling with the team. I seriously cannot believe all these people doubting Filipe. I have full faith in him, and even though Azpi is much better defensively at LB (at the moment), I do believe that it's a matter of time before Filipe makes LB his own just like Azpi made it his last season. Some people should look ahead instead of knee-jerking in the moment.. Let's not forget that with more playing time comes more routine and learning from the small mistakes..

[OneMoSalah 8,810]

Did I just see someone call the best LB in Europe last season an excellent squad player??? Oh god. Anyway I'd have him here over every other LB in the Premier League or in most leagues in Europe still.

I still remember people complaining when we spent 17m on whatever on him because he was 28 and that we didn't go and buy 32M Luke Shaw... who has maybe started a third of the games this season due to excessive injury problems.

[didierforever 7,349]

Why did we buy him if we do not want to give him a run of games?30 million for a squad player?Was Ashley not enough to be a squad player?Bertrand?

Chelsea just wasted 30 millions on him.

30millions? i thought his transfer fee was 16mil.

but in hindsight, and specially consdering how good bertrand has been, we did waste money on him. azpi is not of the best but simply the best LB in PL at this moment.so luis is not getting ahead of him anytime soon. defensively he is levels below azpi, which is the primary aspect of a defender.

[lionsden 4,689]

Jose did exactly the same thing at Madrid when he bought Coentrao for 30m to be back up to marcelo and he was rightly criticised for it. It's baffling tbh. Most people felt Bertrand was more than sufficient cover at LB to Azpi either that or we should have just kept Ashley. When we were linked to him, I thought Azpi was going to be moved back to RB and/or be a floater and cover both position as the best LB in europe at the time will be a definite starter. If we knew this was Jose's plan there's no way in hell many would have supported the idea. spending 19m for a backup in a position you already have cover for is stupid especially if you are the type of manager that favours stability and doesn't like to rotate the starting 11/backline too much.

[OneMoSalah 8,810]

30millions? i thought his transfer fee was 16mil.

but in hindsight, and specially consdering how good bertrand has been, we did waste money on him. azpi is not of the best but simply the best LB in PL at this moment.so luis is not getting ahead of him anytime soon. defensively he is levels below azpi, which is the primary aspect of a defender.

This the same as the Lukaku on loan at Eveton and WBA thing, its one thing to be good at Southampton but a totally different thing to be good at Chelsea. At Southampton he isn't playing for anywhere near a demanding coach in comparison to Jose, where they aren't under so much pressure as we are due to being the favorites for the PL title, Capital One Cup and one of them for the Champions League. Don't get me wrong Berty is a decent enough LB for a club like Southampton and has softened the blow of losing Shaw but he's hardly exceptional. I'd rather chose a LB out of Azpilicueta and Filipe Luis than Azpilicueta and Bertrand. If we didn't lack English players and Filipe didn't struggle a bit recently, I bet Bertrand not being here wouldn't be a problem to the majority of people. Nobody cared why he wasn't in the team last year when Azpi and Cole were fit so why are people worried now we have 2 of the best LBs in Europe (although even Ashley was up there still last season and was exceptional in games vs Atletico and Liverpool in particular)? Baffles me in the same way people complain about Diego Costa 'not being good at combination play' when we had 3 and a half years of Torres...

Also your point about Filipe, 'defensively he is levels below Azpi', how many fullbacks are better than Azpi defensively in the PL let alone Europe? Hardly any, he is the best defensive player I think we've had in a fullback position for years and years. Its like saying about Eden 'he is levels below Messi and Ronaldo' but everyone is... its a nonsense comparison because they are the best at what they do.

[Tomo 21,736]

That is Choulo's point. We DID waste 30 million when we already had a LB who could attack and was questionable in defense like Van Aanholt.

That being said I do like aspects of Luis's game. Like it enough to start him over Azpilicueta? No, but it works as a squad player.

Im sorry but there is no comparison to PVA, Aanholt is the most tactically and positionally inept defender I have ever seen (at a high level) and considering I/we had to suffer with Bosingwa for years, that's saying something.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

How is £16m completely overpaying for Luis? I hope you're not serious Choo.

In regards to the rest of your post, all I have to say to that is the only way he's going to adapt to the physicality of the league and how we want him to defend is if he actually plays consistently. He certainly has it in him to be our number 1 left back if he adapts well. If you refuse to believe that the you've written off a quality player far too quickly.

Yeah, compared to the other deals we done, 16-19m for a back up LB is over paying considering that defenders are usually less expensive than midfielders and attackers. He's actually currently by far our most expensive defender and he's not a starter.

Jose and the club clearly overestimated him. Go back to what Jose was saying in the summer and all he could talk about was that "we went for players with very small adaptation time", now that has obviously not happened with Luis. A couple of months into the season, that talk has changed into "we wanted an experienced squad player to push Azpi and Iva."

Sorry Skip, but you can't just dismiss the points I made by not quoting them. I already answered the things you mentioned in your post: If the issue is physicality, then he can work on it in training and in the gym. Giving him "consistent" playing time over someone who has clearly been better than him is beyond ridiculous. And he is very clearly getting enough playing time. Here's a stat for you: According to Squawka, Luis has played 1138 minutes for us this season compared to Azpi's 1455. Stop making excuses!

I'm not writing him off, I'd be delighted if he steps up and becomes our first choice LB, but I'm talking about his performances with us so far. "Got it in him" sounds nice and poetic and all, but unless he 'gets it out of him' and starts showing it on the pitch, it means absolutely nothing.

I go back to my original point: "Everyone should stop whining when Luis does not start because he has not really made a case for himself to be our first choice starter."

[Tomo 21,736]

Jose did exactly the same thing at Madrid when he bought Coentrao for 30m to be back up to marcelo and he was rightly criticised for it. It's baffling tbh. Most people felt Bertrand was more than sufficient cover at LB to Azpi either that or we should have just kept Ashley. When we were linked to him, I thought Azpi was going to be moved back to RB and/or be a floater and cover both position as the best LB in europe at the time will be a definite starter. If we knew this was Jose's plan there's no way in hell many would have supported the idea. spending 19m for a backup in a position you already have cover for is stupid especially if you are the type of manager that favours stability and doesn't like to rotate the starting 11/backline too much.

We weren't really covered tho.

Ash just didn't cut it any more and the fact he is having a hard time at Roma supports that, and I have been there re Bertrand before.

Who knows what Mous plan with him was, maybe the plan was to have him as our new LB but circumstance (him taking longer to adapt, Azpi getting even better and Ivan hitting form) dictated otherwise.

After all we had to put up with player's getting picked on reputation (Carlos second season especially) or because of price tag (Torres) for years, I for one am glad those type of politics are a thing of the past down King's Road.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Yeah, compared to the other deals we done, 16-19m for a back up LB is over paying considering that defenders are usually less expensive than midfielders and attackers. He's actually currently by far our most expensive defender and he's not a starter.

Stop saying 19m when it's clearly 16m. He wasn't signed as a back up left back at all and he isn't by far our most expensive defender either. Stop over exaggerating things.

Jose and the club clearly overestimated him. Go back to what Jose was saying in the summer and all he could talk about was that "we went for players with very small adaptation time", now that has obviously not happened with Luis. A couple of months into the season, that talk has changed into "we wanted an experienced squad player to push Azpi and Iva."

Why are you acting as if he has been absolutely horrible and hasn't had good games and made cases to start? Do you think people just want him to play for the sake of it? And not because he's actually had good games? Come on Choo.

Sorry Skip, but you can't just dismiss the points I made by not quoting them. I already answered the things you mentioned in your post: If the issue is physicality, then he can work on it in training and in the gym. Giving him "consistent" playing time over someone who has clearly been better than him is beyond ridiculous. And he is very clearly getting enough playing time. Here's a stat for you: According to Squawka, Luis has played 1138 minutes for us this season compared to Azpi's 1455. Stop making excuses!

Seriously Choo? We're talking about PL games. How many PL minutes has he played? Check that then get back to me.

I'm not writing him off, I'd be delighted if he steps up and becomes our first choice LB, but I'm talking about his performances with us so far. "Got it in him" sounds nice and poetic and all, but unless he 'gets it out of him' and starts showing it on the pitch, it means absolutely nothing.

I go back to my original point: "Everyone should stop whining when Luis does not start because he has not really made a case for himself to be our first choice starter."

Again, you're acting like he's never had good performances for us. That's incredibly short sighted and I expect better from you tbh. One mixed performance (he was excellent in periods in the 2nd half) from Luis after not playing for a while and he's suddenly become a waste of money for you. Right.

[lionsden 4,689]

We weren't really covered tho.

Ash just didn't cut it any more and the fact he is having a hard time at Roma supports that, and I have been there re Bertrand before.

Who knows what Mous plan with him was, maybe the plan was to have him as our new LB but circumstance (him taking longer to adapt, Azpi getting even better and Ivan hitting form) dictated otherwise.

After all we had to put up with player's getting picked on reputation (Carlos second season especially) or because of price tag (Torres) for years, I for one am glad those type of politics are a thing of the past down King's Road.

Firstly that's nothing more than your opinion that we weren't covered at LB. Even if that was true (which it isn't imo) is that a justification to spend that amoiunt for a mere squad player in a position where players generally don't cost alot. paying that much for a LB and one with such huge reputation (He was rated as the best LB in Europe last season) just to be back up is very excessive and stupid no matter how one looks at it.

[didierforever 7,349]

This the same as the Lukaku on loan at Eveton and WBA thing, its one thing to be good at Southampton but a totally different thing to be good at Chelsea. At Southampton he isn't playing for anywhere near a demanding coach in comparison to Jose, where they aren't under so much pressure as we are due to being the favorites for the PL title, Capital One Cup and one of them for the Champions League. Don't get me wrong Berty is a decent enough LB for a club like Southampton and has softened the blow of losing Shaw but he's hardly exceptional. I'd rather chose a LB out of Azpilicueta and Filipe Luis than Azpilicueta and Bertrand. If we didn't lack English players and Filipe didn't struggle a bit recently, I bet Bertrand not being here wouldn't be a problem to the majority of people. Nobody cared why he wasn't in the team last year when Azpi and Cole were fit so why are people worried now we have 2 of the best LBs in Europe (although even Ashley was up there still last season and was exceptional in games vs Atletico and Liverpool in particular)? Baffles me in the same way people complain about Diego Costa 'not being good at combination play' when we had 3 and a half years of Torres...

Also your point about Filipe, 'defensively he is levels below Azpi', how many fullbacks are better than Azpi defensively in the PL let alone Europe? Hardly any, he is the best defensive player I think we've had in a fullback position for years and years. Its like saying about Eden 'he is levels below Messi and Ronaldo' but everyone is... its a nonsense comparison because they are the best at what they do.

this is a completely different issue from lukaku. lukaku had not played for us, ryan has. and he has been good whenever he has been told to step in for cole. also, why does he have to be exceptional? he is a good left back, solid in defence, brilliant workrate and can lend a hand in attack as he is showing at soton. i dont remember a single performance of ryan's that i can say was below par. obviously ryan being english is a major point. people keep yammering about youth and this guy is a club trained player who fits the bill perfectly. he would have been a brilliant squad player. wait scratch that, he already has been a brilliant squad player for us. 16mil for a 29 year old who is stuggling to cope in PL and is being used as a back up left back is not really the best decision that jose has made. as for not making a point about defnding bertrand last season, call back TOPTB and ask him what i thought about his loan. bertrand deserved to have been started ahead of cole last season after the kind of performances cole put in the start of the season. yet we persisted with cole and then dint even given bertrand any chance.

also why does torres have to be the benchmark in everythin. bamford is better than torres, i am better than torres, does that mean every aspect of the game is perfect. i remember jose saying a couple of pressers or pre-match ago that diego is still settling to a new style of play from ATM where he has to be better technically. and that is true. diego is a brilliant striker but we dont have to turn a blind eye to his faults.

when you hear people crib match after match about "why is not luis starting", "why did we buy him" and yada yada yada.. this is why, cos azpi is a much much better defender. how is that a nonsense comparision. if we had CR in our team, and people kept cribbing about watching EH play on the LW, THAT IS A NONSENSICAL thing. simply cos he is a much better player. and that is why azpi starts over luis.

[lionsden 4,689]

I will be very angry if we end up losing Bertrand and it looks very likely at this point. He's worked incredibly hard to reach his current level which is high regardless of what some think and has remained extremely patient and humble for the most part bar his little tantrum towards Jose recently (who can blame him).

I lost count on the amount of loans we sent him out on and yet kept his head down and remaibed fully motivated and did brilliantly whenever called upon. He's the one player that does deserve to make it here based on both merit and sentimental values and no one will ever convince me that he's not more than good enough to play for a top team like Chelsea. He's proven his competency already.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Stop saying 19m when it's clearly 16m. He wasn't signed as a back up left back at all and he isn't by far our most expensive defender either. Stop over exaggerating things.

Why are you acting as if he has been absolutely horrible and hasn't had good games and made cases to start? Do you think people just want him to play for the sake of it? And not because he's actually had good games? Come on Choo.

Seriously Choo? We're talking about PL games. How many PL minutes has he played? Check that then get back to me.

Again, you're acting like he's never had good performances for us. That's incredibly short sighted and I expect better from you tbh. One mixed performance (he was excellent in periods in the 2nd half) from Luis after not playing for a while and he's suddenly become a waste of money for you. Right.

If you're going to get upset and not actually argue the points, then never mind, I was just looking for a decent debate. Certainly not looking for a holier than thou/patronizing "expected better from you" crap......I expected better from you, Skip!

[killer1257 3,282]

I will be very angry if we end up losing Bertrand and it looks very likely at this point. He's worked incredibly hard to reach his current level which is high regardless of what some think and has remained extremely patient and humble for the most part bar his little tantrum towards Jose recently (who can blame him).

I lost count on the amount of loans we sent him out on and yet kept his head down and remaibed fully motivated and did brilliantly whenever called upon. He's the one player that does deserve to make it here based on both merit and sentimental values and no one will ever convince me that he's not more than good enough to play for a top team like Chelsea. He's proven his competency already.

In my opinion,he should leave because he deserves a chance to play regular football every week.He will not be a starter here because Azpi is simply the best LB and he deserves something better.

He loves Chelsea,but he once said that Chelsea always lied to him when it came about getting games at Chelsea.He said that the management always said to him that he will get his fair chance,but in the end,we know that he did not get his fair chance.

It is what it is.Bertrand was maybe to patient.He should have left us when he was 22 or so.

[lionsden 4,689]

In my opinion,he should leave because he deserves a chance to play regular football every week.He will not be a starter here because Azpi is simply the best LB and he deserves something better.

He loves Chelsea,but he once said that Chelsea always lied to him when it came about getting games at Chelsea.He said that the management always said to him that he will get his fair chance,but in the end,we know that he did not get his fair chance.

It is what it is.Bertrand was maybe to patient.He should have left us when he was 22 or so.

I absolutely agree with you that moving on is best for his career.

But according to some "if you are good enough, you will make it here". Bertrand's treatment has basically busted that theory.

It's more like if the manager likes/rates you, you will make it here. Jose never rated him from the start for whatever reason. Bertrand never stood a chance.

[lucio 5,418]

so now bertrand has gone from underrated to completely overrated, he did well enough, but no chance we will miss him

[killer1257 3,282]

I absolutely agree with you that moving on is best for his career.

But according to some "if you are good enough, you will make it here". Bertrand's treatment has basically busted that theory.

It's more like if the manager likes/rates you, you will make it here. Jose never rated him from the start for whatever reason hence why he bought Filipe and banished him permanently to the bench and later shipping him out on loan.

In my opinion,he was better than Ashley in his last 2 years.Ashley was nowhere near his peak and Bertrand had everything to replace him,but Chelsea did not give him enough minutes.Ashley did a lot of defense mistakes,which caused that we drpped a lot of points and offensively,he wasn´t great either.He was not the best LB in the PL anymore.Why not give Bertrand a chance,who has more stamina,is faster and better at crossing?Still Chelsea did not manage to give him a chance.Like you said,it is always about the manager.If he likes the youth,he will give you a chance.If he loves experience,you can simply leave the club.

Everytime he played,he played good.I do not remember a bad game from him.At least he won the CL and I think that he deserves that.At least he got one good memory for him at Chelsea.

Great guy,great character and he still said that he likes Chelsea,even though we treated him badly.

[The Skipper 20,593]

If you're going to get upset and not actually argue the points, then never mind, I was just looking for a decent debate. Certainly not looking for a holier than thou/patronizing "expected better from you" crap......I expected better from you, Skip!

I have argued the points that I've felt needed arguing.