Filipe Luís

[The Skipper 20,593]

Here's a wacky idea that apparently no one has thought of yet:

What if the reason we don't move Azpi back to RB and start Luis at LB is because Luis is no where near as good as either Azpi or Iva?!

Even compared to Iva with all his brain-farts, his inability to stop crosses and his often non-existing sense of tracking back, Iva is still a more solid and reliable defender who is difficult to beat 1vs1 and is a major asset on set-pieces.

Iva also offers A LOT more when he goes forward. Actually, apart from his ability to cross from deep, I've found that Luis's attacking abilities are mostly imagined. I often find that even Azpi in a couple of forward runs per game can do more damage than 10 runs Luis does.

So yeah...I think that Iva and Azpi start because they are our best two fullbacks...Too obvious to be true?

You actually think Ivanovic and Azpi are more effective in arrack than Luis? Wow.

[Stats 7,060]

I must be the only one that didn't give a shit about Bertrand. Didn't think he was ever even marginally good enough to play for us.

He was a backup, almost useless as he could only do one trick when we actually needed him (basic defensive work). Even then he had more downs than ups imo, impossibly overrated player around here. He found a team of his size when he moved to Southampton.

Back to Luis. Sorry, but it pays him sort of right. I like the guy, but he forced his exit last season when Atletico were very willing to keep him and did everything they could because he wanted to play in a 'bigger team'. now he wants to go back because although he won two titles here, he wants to play more often even if it's not in a team as big (generally speaking). Some amazing career management skills there.

That said, he should be our LB starter... he won't improve his timing and defensive moves in EPL if he doesn't play and he didn't compromise much when he played, although he's definitely a downgrade to Azpi defensively wise, the same way Azpi is much worse supporting the attack. I'm just tired of the whole team paying for a messed up defense (one kamikaze, one brainfart waiting to happen, a sacrificed RB and a WC CB that's slow and should have better players surrounding him, so his one shortcoming wouldn't be exposed). Luis and Azpi just keep paying the price for that and I'll always call Mourinho's mistakes in how he sets up a winger, a MD and who else is available to cover for Iva in the RB. It's a lot of compromising just because of one player. If we have a better partner for JT and Iva wasn't our RB we'd be a much better team, way more balanced that wouldn't need to play so defensively in certain kind of matches... *sigh*

Bertrand never had a bad game for us. He rarely got starts and when he came in done very well. That season when we won the UCL, he came in to rotate for Cole against Arsenal in a 0-0 draw at the Emirates and got MOTM. In his few appearances here he performed very well. I would love to hear people's reasons why they think he is not good enough for us. He is very good defensively. Maybe Azpi is better than him defensively but that is probably because he does not venture forward as much and is less likely to get exposed. Going forward, Bertrand is probably the best offensively full back/LB in the league.

Luis now, is good defensively. Was exploited a few times when he played for us but majority of games done well. Decent going forward, but does not excel in this apartment however I don't see the qualities most LB have over Bertrand. Like I was saying, he is probably the best attacking LB in the league yet he still does his job defensively. There is no coincidence that he was part of the team who had the best defensive record in the league last season.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

You actually think Ivanovic and Azpi are more effective in arrack than Luis? Wow.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he had zero assists in his 26 appearances for us. Azpi had 3 assists just in the league and Iva something like 5 or 6.

What exactly is so amazing about saying that Iva and Azpi are more effective in attack than Luis?

[lionsden 4,689]

I said it prior to his transfer that he was a needless signing and I still retain that view. Bertrand was more than adequate cover for Azpi. A right back to challenge Ivanovic should have been a priority rather than signing a 29 yo left back at the expense of losing a capable and reliable young(er) homegrown LB in bertrand. His signing would have made more sense if jose was looking to move Azpi back to the right.

On a side note I do agree with the view that Azpi handicaps our attacking play on the left. Hazard links up better with Luis for example. In the end it's a case of prioritizing defence over attack at the left back position.

[the wes 7,212]

Roma are reportedly in talks with Chelsea for Brazilian full-back Filipe Luís who couldn't get a regular place in Chelsea's main XI after arriving from Atlético Madrid.

El Mundo Deportivo says Filipe Luís isn't short of offers this summer as he considers quitting Chelsea after just one season. A return to Atlético Madrid has been mooted, while Roma lead an Italian contingent which includes Juventus, Inter and AC Milan. It's speculated that Chelsea are demanding a fee of £14 million to sell Filipe. Atlético are believed to be favourites to sign the Brazil international.

http://www.sambafoot.com/en/news/73812__.html?

[The Skipper 20,593]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he had zero assists in his 26 appearances for us. Azpi had 3 assists just in the league and Iva something like 5 or 6.

What exactly is so amazing about saying that Iva and Azpi are more effective in attack than Luis?

Because it's a straw man's argument just to look at stats. You just have to watch him play to realise that Luis has superior offensive ability and technique compared to Azpi and Ivanovic and has proven so over his career.

He's a much better dribbler than both, superior composure when it comes to tight spaces, a lot more comfortable on the ball, can actually go past his man and provides much better natural width than both. He was never used properly or given a real fair go here either. Whenever he did impress, i.e. in our 5-0 demolition against Swansea where he was one of our top performers and then performed well in the CC semis against Liverpool, he never got consecutive game time following that up. Or when we drew 1-1 against Burnley, I think he was the best player on the pitch by far (alongside Eden) for us when a lot of other players were very lacklustre. Consequence? Gets dropped.

You literally just have to watch us when Luis plays and see how much more fluid we are on that left hand side and how much better he links up with Hazard to understand what he actually brings to the table.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

You actually think Ivanovic and Azpi are more effective in arrack than Luis? Wow.

Luis is undoubtedly more offensive-orientated than Azpilicueta but I have to agree with Choulo that, other than his tendency to whip more crosses into the penalty area and take up slightly more aggressive positions, Luis' attacking abilities are grossly exaggerated. I would certainly mark Ivanovic as being far superior offensively in the system that we play. Okay, Hazard and Luis link up a lot better than how Hazard links up with Dave, but then again, with Luis in the team we are far weaker defensively. Azpi doesn't play left-back for the sake of it - he covers Terry's deficiencies, whilst Terry covers the deficiencies of Cahill and Ivanovic. But that's because Mourinho gifts Ivanovic a lot of freedom, and his goalscoring return alone indicates his offensive capabilities which are critical to our style of play. There is this big myth that Azpilicueta is the better defensive full-back and than Luis is a markedly better attacking alternative. I think Azpilicueta is, by some distance, the better all-rounder of the two. Mourinho clearly agrees, which is why Luis was mainly a substitute for most of the season. Azpilicueta does a better job for the team, it has to be conceded.

Personally I like Filipe and I feel he has done a good job, in general, when he's played, but Azpi is undoubtedly - in my mind - superior in almost every conceivable way.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Luis is undoubtedly more offensive-orientated than Azpilicueta but I have to agree with Choulo that, other than his tendency to whip more crosses into the penalty area and take up slightly more aggressive positions, Luis' attacking abilities are grossly exaggerated. I would certainly mark Ivanovic as being far superior offensively in the system that we play. Okay, Hazard and Luis link up a lot better than how Hazard links up with Dave, but then again, with Luis in the team we are far weaker defensively. Azpi doesn't play left-back for the sake of it - he covers Terry's deficiencies, whilst Terry covers the deficiencies of Cahill and Ivanovic. But that's because Mourinho gifts Ivanovic a lot of freedom, and his goalscoring return alone indicates his offensive capabilities which are critical to our style of play. There is this big myth that Azpilicueta is the better defensive full-back and than Luis is a markedly better attacking alternative. I think Azpilicueta is, by some distance, the better all-rounder of the two. Mourinho clearly agrees, which is why Luis was mainly a substitute for most of the season. Azpilicueta does a better job for the team, it has to be conceded.

Personally I like Filipe and I feel he has done a good job, in general, when he's played, but Azpi is undoubtedly - in my mind - superior in almost every conceivable way.

I agree with some of this, hence why I've said that Luis hasn't been used properly here. It's to do with our system. Our defence is very oddly put together. A back four of Luis - Terry - Cahill - Azpi would be far more balanced than the one we played all season and it's a massive shame that Jose didn't try that more often. If he was so concerned about Terry's deficiencies as well - which are largely covered by the fact that we play a mid to low block, I don't buy that Azpi is solely there for JT, in my mind Azpi is there because Jose wants to give Hazard and Cesc more freedom - then why not put him in the RCB slot?

Eden plays a lot better when he has more technical players around him IMO, he doesn't feel as restricted as to who he can pass to. I strongly believe that if we gave Luis a solid run in the team that we would've seen even more of Eden because he basically would've had Cesc and Luis supporting him who are both very good technically.

It's a shame our system doesn't work like that though.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Because it's a straw man's argument just to look at stats. You just have to watch him play to realise that Luis has superior offensive ability and technique compared to Azpi and Ivanovic and has proven so over his career.

He's a much better dribbler than both, superior composure when it comes to tight spaces, a lot more comfortable on the ball, can actually go past his man and provides much better natural width than both. He was never used properly or given a real fair go here either. Whenever he did impress, i.e. in our 5-0 demolition against Swansea where he was one of our top performers and then performed well in the CC semis against Liverpool, he never got consecutive game time following that up. Or when we drew 1-1 against Burnley, I think he was the best player on the pitch by far (alongside Eden) for us when a lot of other players were very lacklustre. Consequence? Gets dropped.

You literally just have to watch us when Luis plays and see how much more fluid we are on that left hand side and how much better he links up with Hazard to understand what he actually brings to the table.

Well that's not what you said and what I was trying to debate with that stat. You were shocked that anyone would consider Luis less effective offensively than Iva and Azpi. The stat was to show that is a very normal opinion regardless of whether you agree or not.

As for the points you raised, yes, obviously Luis has better technique than both. That's not really debatable. He's also a better passer than both. But in terms of actual offensive ability and effectiveness in the final third, I saw nothing of him this season to suggest that he's as good as Iva or even Azpi.

Luis was given every chance to prove himself as a deserved starter; more than practically any player that comes to Chelsea, but he failed. He had his biggest chance when Azpi was suspended and he started 6 consecutive games and even though Luis was playing poorly in the league he retained his place for the CL matches and Azpi did not play. That period did nothing but highlight what a step down he was from Azpi.

PS: What the hell is "superior composure in tight spaces"?!

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

I must be the only one that didn't give a shit about Bertrand. Didn't think he was ever even marginally good enough to play for us.

He was a backup, almost useless as he could only do one trick when we actually needed him (basic defensive work). Even then he had more downs than ups imo, impossibly overrated player around here. He found a team of his size when he moved to Southampton.

Back to Luis. Sorry, but it pays him sort of right. I like the guy, but he forced his exit last season when Atletico were very willing to keep him and did everything they could because he wanted to play in a 'bigger team'. now he wants to go back because although he won two titles here, he wants to play more often even if it's not in a team as big (generally speaking). Some amazing career management skills there.

That said, he should be our LB starter... he won't improve his timing and defensive moves in EPL if he doesn't play and he didn't compromise much when he played, although he's definitely a downgrade to Azpi defensively wise, the same way Azpi is much worse supporting the attack. I'm just tired of the whole team paying for a messed up defense (one kamikaze, one brainfart waiting to happen, a sacrificed RB and a WC CB that's slow and should have better players surrounding him, so his one shortcoming wouldn't be exposed). Luis and Azpi just keep paying the price for that and I'll always call Mourinho's mistakes in how he sets up a winger, a MD and who else is available to cover for Iva in the RB. It's a lot of compromising just because of one player. If we have a better partner for JT and Iva wasn't our RB we'd be a much better team, way more balanced that wouldn't need to play so defensively in certain kind of matches... *sigh*

Ouch thats harsh on Bertrand.

A youth player of ours who was in the premier league team of the season. Was he the finished article? Of course not, but he was definitely capable when called upon and could have grew into the role. Just casting him out as not good enough, while spending out the ass on other players who aren't good enough, is simply poor club policy. If the youth academy can't produce squad players, then it really is useless. Not a single youth player stands the slightest chance in hell in this current setup.

[Barbara 15,149]

Ouch thats harsh on Bertrand.

A youth player of ours who was in the premier league team of the season. Was he the finished article? Of course not, but he was definitely capable when called upon and could have grew into the role. Just casting him out as not good enough, while spending out the ass on other players who aren't good enough, is simply poor club policy. If the youth academy can't produce squad players, then it really is useless. Not a single youth player stands the slightest chance in hell in this current setup.

Iva was undisputed in the team of the season and Fabregas wasn't at the expense of Coutinho, those things really don't tell much. As I said he found a team his size at Southampton, and yes, I don't rate Bertrand at all. He pissed me off way too much the few times he played for us. The one exception had been the UCL final, when he was okay, but still did some Ramires esque passes.

[Barbara 15,149]

Different subject demands a separate post.

I won't quote, because I'm lazy to go back the pages, but I just read the problem in our defense is JT? Sorry, but the only expression I can find to answer that is WTF?

He has one shortcoming - and that's his lack of pace. If he doesn't have to cover for Cahill, and babysit him, if Iva doesn't do his kamikaze thing (and arms behind his body marking his man 2m away) JT can be our sheriff without having his slowness exposed.

It's the fact that Cahill backs away even from kittens, the fact that Iva does MIA sometimes - dragging Willian or who else is in the right wing to be the first combative man avoiding a cross that makes us look overly defensive, especially against big teams.

Take Iva away from the team (something I know also brings a couple of down sides, but the up sides are more meaningful imo) and move Azpi there, and we'll have the best one on one defender in the league protecting the always so scared of pro-active marking Cahill. Luis isn't too fast himself and he might support the attack more than Azpi would, exposing JT more, but then we have Matic - the golden condom - to stay a bit back when Luis is up. I'd rather use a DM to cover for a CB than half the team cover for a FB. The thing with Iva is that it becomes a domino effect situation. With him not only going up and leaving the defense uncovered and his stupid man marking, we expose the weakest link in the defense: Cahill and he's left more often than not in one on one situations that he will undoubtedly back away until both him and the opponent are in the box.The only reason our defense looks good is because it gets a lot of protection from our AMs and Matic. A good defense doesn't need this much protection and until we move on from Iva, it won't look better. The thing is he isn't that old, José loves him for his spirit and attack presence.

JT might demand a few tactical adjustments, but take him away from the team and Azpi will continue to play LB because Mourinho would rather play Zouma or anyone else alongside Cahill than take Iva from the RB position. Also, JT has been anything but brilliant last season for us, Azpili or no Azpili. The same can't even remotely be said about the undisputed Iva. Not even close.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Ouch thats harsh on Bertrand.

A youth player of ours who was in the premier league team of the season. Was he the finished article? Of course not, but he was definitely capable when called upon and could have grew into the role. Just casting him out as not good enough, while spending out the ass on other players who aren't good enough, is simply poor club policy. If the youth academy can't produce squad players, then it really is useless. Not a single youth player stands the slightest chance in hell in this current setup.

Helped us do this as well, which I'll always be grateful for:

[Tomo 21,733]

Bertrand never had a bad game for us. He rarely got starts and when he came in done very well. That season when we won the UCL, he came in to rotate for Cole against Arsenal in a 0-0 draw at the Emirates and got MOTM. In his few appearances here he performed very well. I would love to hear people's reasons why they think he is not good enough for us. He is very good defensively. Maybe Azpi is better than him defensively but that is probably because he does not venture forward as much and is less likely to get exposed. Going forward, Bertrand is probably the best offensively full back/LB in the league.

Luis now, is good defensively. Was exploited a few times when he played for us but majority of games done well. Decent going forward, but does not excel in this apartment however I don't see the qualities most LB have over Bertrand. Like I was saying, he is probably the best attacking LB in the league yet he still does his job defensively. There is no coincidence that he was part of the team who had the best defensive record in the league last season.

If you mean bad game as in looked all over the place then not many, but when he was getting regular games in 12/13 it became clear he was never going to be better than a squad player here, he didn't seem to want that so he left, fair enough.

He does have one huge weakness, he lets crosses into the box time after time (we scored vs Saints from a cross his side aswell), I remember that Everton League Cup game at Goodison under AVB and the crosses he allowed in that game (including for the Everton goal) must be a record. Ivanovic gets mullered for this side to his game yet Bertrand who's 10 times worse at it gets a free pass, I'm guessing because it doesn't fit in with the myth that he is a complete solid defender who we royally fuked up selling.

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

First contacts between Chelsea and Atletico for Filipe Luis, who are working on a loan deal. The Brazilian could return (via @DiMarzio) #CFC

#Atletico's loan proposal is likely to be rebuffed by Chelsea who want to recoup the bulk of the £16m they paid last summer (Mail) #CFC

Alderweireld was offered as part of initial talks between #CFC & #Atletico, but he is now joining #THFC for £11.5m after a medical (Mail)

[Stats 7,060]

If you mean bad game as in looked all over the place then not many, but when he was getting regular games in 12/13 it became clear he was never going to be better than a squad player here, he didn't seem to want that so he left, fair enough.

He does have one huge weakness, he lets crosses into the box time after time (we scored vs Saints from a cross his side aswell), I remember that Everton League Cup game at Goodison under AVB and the crosses he allowed in that game (including for the Everton goal) must be a record.

Then he may have had a lot to learn but he was only 23 without much games. It is clear that after playing regular football he has become one of the best LB in the league. In the match we played against them at the Bridge, I personally thought he had a good game and remember Azpi being caught out a couple of times but luckily we were never punished but sometimes we just could not handle the threat of their plays down the flank and he was their key asset and many times they exploited that area. Even if he does have the slightest defensive issues, he is probably the most effective full back in terms of being effective going forward and defending. I have always been impressed by him and as much as I appreciate having Azpi here if I had the choice I would never have sold Bertrand and had him as our first choice LB as he is homegrown, fantastic going forward and like I was saying, overall I think a very good defender. I reckon him and Hazard would be a dream link up when attacking.

[The Skipper 20,593]

PS: What the hell is "superior composure in tight spaces"?!

If you know you know.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Here's a wacky idea that apparently no one has thought of yet:

What if the reason we don't move Azpi back to RB and start Luis at LB is because Luis is no where near as good as either Azpi or Iva?!

Even compared to Iva with all his brain-farts, his inability to stop crosses and his often non-existing sense of tracking back, Iva is still a more solid and reliable defender who is difficult to beat 1vs1 and is a major asset on set-pieces.

Iva also offers A LOT more when he goes forward. Actually, apart from his ability to cross from deep, I've found that Luis's attacking abilities are mostly imagined. I often find that even Azpi in a couple of forward runs per game can do more damage than 10 runs Luis does.

So yeah...I think that Iva and Azpi start because they are our best two fullbacks...Too obvious to be true?

Behave - Ivanovic should've been either moved to striker or dropped from RB a long time ago. To suggest he's one of our 'best' fullbacks is an odd one from you Chou