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Starting XI for Next Season

nono

By nono,
in Matthew Harding Stand

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BlueLyon

BlueLyon 9,359

Posted
Posted

Wouldnt mind 3:5:2 in some games

------------Courtois-------------

-------Cahill-Terry-Zouma?-------

--Azpi-Oscar-Matic-Cesc-Willian--

----------Costa-Hazard-----------

Our defence wasnt too great when we didnt play defensive, besides Terry will get older and third CB could be great (Zouma would gain experience and his potential mistakes would be covered by Terry and Cahill).

Azpi and Willian could be perfect wingbacks. Willian specificaly. Both can run for ages, Azpi is natural defender while Willian is more attacking. His crosses would be useful. Besides his ending product isnt that special, he would suit wingback profile.

Midfield would be extremely strong, creative and with high pressing, we would boss midfield.

With no Ramires, our defence would be more exposed, but with 3 CBs, and more midfielders, defence would still be strong. Finaly, our attack would be Costa, a target man and Hazard who would have more free role, could be second striker, winger, creator behind Costa etc.

Would be worth a try in certain games. Chile and Netherlands have proved this formation can be very efective.

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Chelsea Legend 11

Chelsea Legend 11 4,062

Posted
Posted

Wouldnt mind 3:5:2 in some games

------------Courtois-------------

-------Cahill-Terry-Ivanovic-------

--Azpi-Oscar-Matic-Cesc-Willian--

----------Costa-Hazard-----------

Our defence wasnt too great when we didnt play defensive, besides Terry will get older and third CB could be great (Zouma would gain experience and his potential mistakes would be covered by Terry and Cahill).

Azpi and Willian could be perfect wingbacks. Willian specificaly. Both can run for ages, Azpi is natural defender while Willian is more attacking. His crosses would be useful. Besides his ending product isnt that special, he would suit wingback profile.

Midfield would be extremely strong, creative and with high pressing, we would boss midfield.

With no Ramires, our defence would be more exposed, but with 3 CBs, and more midfielders, defence would still be strong. Finaly, our attack would be Costa, a target man and Hazard who would have more free role, could be second striker, winger, creator behind Costa etc.

Would be worth a try in certain games. Chile and Netherlands have proved this formation can be very efective.

I'm not a fan of 3-5-2 as a permanent formation but as a possible plan C, sure...

Ivanovic would definitely get in ahead of Zouma in that set up.

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BlueLyon

BlueLyon 9,359

Posted
Posted

I'm not a fan of 3-5-2 as a permanent formation but as a possible plan C, sure...

Ivanovic would definitely get in ahead of Zouma in that set up.

I think under Mou Zouma might become some player but if he wont get chance soon, he will never make it here...

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Pizy

Pizy 18,368

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Just can't see Oscar on the right wing for us. We'd have almost no width in our team which has been a problem of ours until we bought Willian. Hazard rarely crosses the ball and both he and Oscar like cutting inside and playing closer to the box.

We need Willian out there to stretch defenses and open space. Think he's a nailed on starter at the beginning of the season.

In my ideal world we'd play 4-3-3 with another top class CM/DM being brought in like Vidal/Kroos/Pogba/Gustavo but that would unfortunately spell the end of Oscar. And honestly, I wouldn't complain if we sold Oscar to PSG for huge money as long as it meant we brought in one of the aforementioned players. A midfield 3 with Matic and Vidal/Kroos/Pogba/Gustavo and Cesc as the most advanced midfielder would be the best in the world.

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Barbara

Barbara 15,149

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Posted

Just can't see Oscar on the right wing for us. We'd have almost no width in our team which has been a problem of ours until we bought Willian. Hazard rarely crosses the ball and both he and Oscar like cutting inside and playing closer to the box.

We need Willian out there to stretch defenses and open space. Think he's a nailed on starter at the beginning of the season.

In my ideal world we'd play 4-3-3 with another top class CM/DM being brought in like Vidal/Kroos/Pogba/Gustavo but that would unfortunately spell the end of Oscar. And honestly, I wouldn't complain if we sold Oscar to PSG for huge money as long as it meant we brought in one of the aforementioned players. A midfield 3 with Matic and Vidal/Kroos/Pogba/Gustavo and Cesc as the most advanced midfielder would be the best in the world.

I don't want another midfielder - CM, DM, AM, WM or whatever other letter we put before the M. We have more than capable and good players there. It's covered imo.

Oscar played for us many times in the wing and he even crossed a few times by match in those occasions. Thing was 1) many times he didn't raise his head and the crosses were bad; 2) he didn't exactly have a target (different from Brazil) - not to mention the times the crosses were wasted.

Crosses for the likes of Mata, Hazard, Willian, Torres are nearly useless unless in the case of the former three it's a low cross (Torres is useless in any shape and form). Eto'o and Ba are taller and could have been the case, but our main issue with width last year is that we didn't have someone to receive those crosses. Also our movement in the box (with Schurrle being the only big exception and Eto'o in a lesser extend) was atrocious. They moved to the obvious places, were easily marked by opposition and many times when anyone crossed it was wasted because of that.

If we don't have natural, tall, strong and objective targets and our players don't move smartly inside the box having width is moot - except for the link up.

With Oscar hopefully recovering form/mentality/focus/having-competition/from-whatever-his-problem-was, Willian having an EPL season under his belt as well as Schurrle, Fabregas coming from behind and hopefully a decent striker things will look brighter and that's why I don't think we need Gustavo, Vidal and much less Kroos or Pogba (tbh I can't understand how you can group those four together as potentially what we need if they can be divided in at least two groups of different players offering different end products).

Oscar ain't lying when he says he can play whatever position in midfield. #8; #10, winger, make your pick... he's had amazing matches in each of those positions between Brazil and Chelsea and as we've been repeatedly saying his main problem is consistency. Cesc is about the same and Willian is as good in the wing as centered.

My main doubt is who to play by Hazard side... Willian and Schürrle offer completely differently end products, but both are exciting imo. Willian has so much flair, resource and work-rate (but also incredible pace). It's not even funny how useful he can be. I'm quite aware he hasn't showed much efficacy for us yet - only a handful goals and assists, but he has it on him. Also our both Brazilians have something that balance Eden out: simplicity. While Eden goes for the fancy, impossible-to-be-done-by-anyone-else dribble, Oscar and Willian keep it simple and quite efficiently when they're on their days.

With André we have incredible pace, intelligent movement and goals. Simple like that. He's one of our smartest players and he also keeps things simple (I'm in no way saying a fancy dribbler like Hazard isn't good - it's mouthwatering, but it's also good to have those objective/selfish guys that will just go for it).

When a team is this versatile opposition's problems become much bigger. But then the team has to deliver the potential.

We need to use those guys much better than we did. We barely explored the space Hazard keeps creating for us. It's mathematical - 11 x 11 and Eden drags at all times at least two markers. Many times three and I've seen even four. It means somewhere else we have players with a lot of space, but we didn't explore it efficiently and I hope we do now. Having a guy like Cesc linking up with Eden in the left side, near the the edge of the box (and I'm absolutely sure he will) is something that makes me giddy inside. Cesc has amazing vision and passing. We don't need him to be in the position to shoot at all times, but his quick thinking will assure us (hopefully) to find those spaces quicker and more efficiently. And God bless him and his sight for him to see André (who seems invisible to his teammates).

We need to train better. I don't know what the problem was, but we didn't seem to have some certain kind of situations well drilled. Maybe it was transition, maybe Mourinho's focus was something else, but we were poorly drilled about occupying spaces, exploring them and our movement in general. Everything relied too much on the players own creation rather than something you could clearly identify as drilled actions. Of course football can't be rehearsed, but we didn't have movement patterning at many points, we rarely turned things around within 45 minutes. It felt like we didn't have answers. Some of those answers will obviously come from individual actions based on players ideas and geniality, but there should be pattern, chemistry and collective answers as well. There's no point of having Cesc, Oscar, Willian, Schurrle, Salah and Hazard if they don't have chemistry, if they don't know what the other is going to do next or where he's moving to. Some of those things come together with time, it's about getting to know the teammates, but some situations must be trained too. The same way Mourinho positioned our defense so well and got them to work collectively quite effectively it's time we do the same in the final third. We desperately need it. yeah, the striker situation didn't help, but it can't be our excuse for everything. It's a problem - a serious one in our attack, but it isn't the only.

All that said, I just don't have an ideal starting lineup. It's not even because of the argument Choulo brought - but simply because the possibilities are too many and we don't know which ones are going to work first or better.

You start a 4-2-3-1 (and I don't care who's in the defense, I'm surprised to see Luis in everyone's lineup as if we had announced him and I'm a fierce Iva fan, so I don't mind him, Luis, Azpili or whoever - as long as Bertrand is nowhere near Cobham and Stamford Bridge) with Matic and Ramires in the pivot if you need more physicality and athleticism (which I hope is the less frequent lineup we see). You switch to 4-3-3 to many variations. I think with few exceptions, the midfield in the 4-3-3 has to be Matic - Cesc - Oscar ( :wank2: - it feels weird to use this smiley, but it gets the message across - those three could be orgasmic). If we need Ramires, we definitely have to move to a 4-2-3-1 to make up for his lack of passing and vision, I don't believe he has any space in a 4-3-3. Then we could have Willian + Hazard - tons of flair, combined with pace, while one keeps it simple and the other keeps it fancy and dangerous. Or you have Hazard and Schurrle - we have the pace, the excellent movement, the possibility of increasing goals, the vision.

Salah is a hybrid between Hazard and André imo. André doesn't dribble. He uses his pace, simplicity and vision to get passed by his opponents, but he doesn't go for the dribble very often - and when he does it's a 50/50, but Salah also has pace (even more than André), but he can dribble - even if not by Eden's standards (can anyone?). I don't think his vision is that good, but 1) I could be wrong, haven't seen him enough to assess fairly; 2) he's still very young and can improve it if he has the brains.

So it doesn't really matter the which of those 4 we get to play behind the striker. We just need to be able to make the midfield and the attack work as an unit - something we failed and to be able to create answers to buses parked, crowded midfield and having possession. We didn't know what to do with the ball when we had it like 6 out of 10 times.

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LAB

LAB 1,030

Posted
Posted

I don't want another midfielder - CM, DM, AM, WM or whatever other letter we put before the M. We have more than capable and good players there. It's covered imo.

Oscar played for us many times in the wing and he even crossed a few times by match in those occasions. Thing was 1) many times he didn't raise his head and the crosses were bad; 2) he didn't exactly have a target (different from Brazil) - not to mention the times the crosses were wasted.

Crosses for the likes of Mata, Hazard, Willian, Torres are nearly useless unless in the case of the former three it's a low cross (Torres is useless in any shape and form). Eto'o and Ba are taller and could have been the case, but our main issue with width last year is that we didn't have someone to receive those crosses. Also our movement in the box (with Schurrle being the only big exception and Eto'o in a lesser extend) was atrocious. They moved to the obvious places, were easily marked by opposition and many times when anyone crossed it was wasted because of that.

If we don't have natural, tall, strong and objective targets and our players don't move smartly inside the box having width is moot - except for the link up.

With Oscar hopefully recovering form/mentality/focus/having-competition/from-whatever-his-problem-was, Willian having an EPL season under his belt as well as Schurrle, Fabregas coming from behind and hopefully a decent striker things will look brighter and that's why I don't think we need Gustavo, Vidal and much less Kroos or Pogba (tbh I can't understand how you can group those four together as potentially what we need if they can be divided in at least two groups of different players offering different end products).

Oscar ain't lying when he says he can play whatever position in midfield. #8; #10, winger, make your pick... he's had amazing matches in each of those positions between Brazil and Chelsea and as we've been repeatedly saying his main problem is consistency. Cesc is about the same and Willian is as good in the wing as centered.

My main doubt is who to play by Hazard side... Willian and Schürrle offer completely differently end products, but both are exciting imo. Willian has so much flair, resource and work-rate (but also incredible pace). It's not even funny how useful he can be. I'm quite aware he hasn't showed much efficacy for us yet - only a handful goals and assists, but he has it on him. Also our both Brazilians have something that balance Eden out: simplicity. While Eden goes for the fancy, impossible-to-be-done-by-anyone-else dribble, Oscar and Willian keep it simple and quite efficiently when they're on their days.

With André we have incredible pace, intelligent movement and goals. Simple like that. He's one of our smartest players and he also keeps things simple (I'm in no way saying a fancy dribbler like Hazard isn't good - it's mouthwatering, but it's also good to have those objective/selfish guys that will just go for it).

When a team is this versatile opposition's problems become much bigger. But then the team has to deliver the potential.

We need to use those guys much better than we did. We barely explored the space Hazard keeps creating for us. It's mathematical - 11 x 11 and Eden drags at all times at least two markers. Many times three and I've seen even four. It means somewhere else we have players with a lot of space, but we didn't explore it efficiently and I hope we do now. Having a guy like Cesc linking up with Eden in the left side, near the the edge of the box (and I'm absolutely sure he will) is something that makes me giddy inside. Cesc has amazing vision and passing. We don't need him to be in the position to shoot at all times, but his quick thinking will assure us (hopefully) to find those spaces quicker and more efficiently. And God bless him and his sight for him to see André (who seems invisible to his teammates).

We need to train better. I don't know what the problem was, but we didn't seem to have some certain kind of situations well drilled. Maybe it was transition, maybe Mourinho's focus was something else, but we were poorly drilled about occupying spaces, exploring them and our movement in general. Everything relied too much on the players own creation rather than something you could clearly identify as drilled actions. Of course football can't be rehearsed, but we didn't have movement patterning at many points, we rarely turned things around within 45 minutes. It felt like we didn't have answers. Some of those answers will obviously come from individual actions based on players ideas and geniality, but there should be pattern, chemistry and collective answers as well. There's no point of having Cesc, Oscar, Willian, Schurrle, Salah and Hazard if they don't have chemistry, if they don't know what the other is going to do next or where he's moving to. Some of those things come together with time, it's about getting to know the teammates, but some situations must be trained too. The same way Mourinho positioned our defense so well and got them to work collectively quite effectively it's time we do the same in the final third. We desperately need it. yeah, the striker situation didn't help, but it can't be our excuse for everything. It's a problem - a serious one in our attack, but it isn't the only.

All that said, I just don't have an ideal starting lineup. It's not even because of the argument Choulo brought - but simply because the possibilities are too many and we don't know which ones are going to work first or better.

You start a 4-2-3-1 (and I don't care who's in the defense, I'm surprised to see Luis in everyone's lineup as if we had announced him and I'm a fierce Iva fan, so I don't mind him, Luis, Azpili or whoever - as long as Bertrand is nowhere near Cobham and Stamford Bridge) with Matic and Ramires in the pivot if you need more physicality and athleticism (which I hope is the less frequent lineup we see). You switch to 4-3-3 to many variations. I think with few exceptions, the midfield in the 4-3-3 has to be Matic - Cesc - Oscar ( :wank2: - it feels weird to use this smiley, but it gets the message across - those three could be orgasmic). If we need Ramires, we definitely have to move to a 4-2-3-1 to make up for his lack of passing and vision, I don't believe he has any space in a 4-3-3. Then we could have Willian + Hazard - tons of flair, combined with pace, while one keeps it simple and the other keeps it fancy and dangerous. Or you have Hazard and Schurrle - we have the pace, the excellent movement, the possibility of increasing goals, the vision.

Salah is a hybrid between Hazard and André imo. André doesn't dribble. He uses his pace, simplicity and vision to get passed by his opponents, but he doesn't go for the dribble very often - and when he does it's a 50/50, but Salah also has pace (even more than André), but he can dribble - even if not by Eden's standards (can anyone?). I don't think his vision is that good, but 1) I could be wrong, haven't seen him enough to assess fairly; 2) he's still very young and can improve it if he has the brains.

So it doesn't really matter the which of those 4 we get to play behind the striker. We just need to be able to make the midfield and the attack work as an unit - something we failed and to be able to create answers to buses parked, crowded midfield and having possession. We didn't know what to do with the ball when we had it like 6 out of 10 times.

My thoughts exactly. We have adequate amount of very talented AMs. They just have to work it out more in training and try to "find" and "feel" each other more. We seemed clueless in front of goal at times while other lesser teams were practically giving us lessons on passing, 1 2s and teamwork.

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