Cesc Fàbregas

[Rom2013 446]

Been saying that for a while but everyone was wanking on him because he was great in small games.

He can help us win the PL but not CL.

His passing and vision is amazing, but his hold up and play under pressure is bad. Take space and time away from him and he will perform like shit.

And it has nothing to do with illness or injury.

It's only because we don't have a decent number 10 and we need to play a CM in the there. In other games we will play a winger there because the oinly number 10 we have is useless.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Can anyone point to one moment in the game where he had the chance to play someone in, but failed?

I don't blame him at all, in fact he does just fine still running around and helping the team. But when you have everyone else defending except from Costa, i'm not quite sure what you want Fabregas to do.

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Been saying that for a while but everyone was wanking on him because he was great in small games.

He can help us win the PL but not CL.

His passing and vision is amazing, but his hold up and play under pressure is bad. Take space and time away from him and he will perform like shit.

And it has nothing to do with illness or injury.

Pretty much this.

Make no mistake we will win the league this year with a large thanks to fabregas, he has helped us to do what United did for years, which was to lead the pack by continuining to pick up victories through the bottom 14 in the league.

[Barbara 15,149]

Can anyone point to one moment in the game where he had the chance to play someone in, but failed?

I don't blame him at all, in fact he does just fine still running around and helping the team. But when you have everyone else defending except from Costa, i'm not quite sure what you want Fabregas to do.

THANK YOU!

I'm sounding like a broken record... but if you want Cesc to play more forward, behind the striker, he needs a few things (he and anyone else really), which are: 1) space; OR 2) players running behind defenses and channels for him to spot them; OR 3) width.

There's only so much you can do when the other team is sitting there waiting for you and your own team has absolutely NO attack ambition. No players making runs, no players going to the wings to create space for him in the middle, no nothing.

And to make things worse Costa was off pace and lacked rhythm which minimized our attack power even more.

Cesc had a weak match, imo Luiz neutralized him, but the tactics also played a great part on it.

I'm not saying he absolutely works against big teams. I think attacking wise - when we offer him service and opportunity to that - he does. His problem against big teams is playing defensively in the pivot. His problem has never and will never be being creative. But if we don't give him the conditions to play his game, there's no way he can do it. If that's how Mourinho is going to approach those big games, I'd rather him not to play Cesc at all because the naive and the haters, critics and moaners will come with the old story he doesn't play well in big games (which can be true if he's well marked, but it's true to him and 98% of the players out there) when in fact Mourinho is sacrificing the team's attack and therefore, Cesc's chances too.

[didierforever 7,349]

2 supposed "myths" about him were

1. Not a big game player.

2. Tapers off towards the end of the season.

Seems like both the "myths" are actually a reality

[hamad138 190]

Yea barca fans had warned me. They said big games he die and 2nd half he sucks

[Barbara 15,149]

Yea barca fans had warned me. They said big games he die and 2nd half he sucks

we already provided stats about his second halves of seasons at Arsenal, we provided big matches were he played well. So please, at least do some research about it.

Barça fans also said he was useless, that the team should get rid of him because he weakened their team and that we were getting their dead wood. Still that's the guy on route of beating EPL's most assists in a season record - being key to us winning the league (which I hope we end up doing) and completely changing us.

You can't blame him for a match like today's when we gave no conditions for him to create anything.

AS I said, go make some research about his stats in the second half of seasons in England (except injured) and watch some big games at Barça and Arsenal.

Yes, he can be marked out of a match, but if a guy doesn't have pace and dribbles on him (which #10 in the world have them? Maybe Coutinho, so I suppose we should swap them?) and that's normally the case with CAMs, then he relies on players running behind the defense, on players overlapping in the wings to decrease the amount of opponents in the middle as well as other players supporting the attack.

If our striker is isolated - as well as off pace as was the case today - if our other AMs main role in the game is to be right and left wing BACKS and if he's well marked by opposition we'd need a miracle for him to influence a match. But as normally people are too lazy to think and analyze matches they come up with those myths as if they were gospel. The worst part in Cesc's case is that there are many big matches he played well and good second half of seasons by him. In two years for Arsenal he was even more effective directly (with goals and assists) in the second half rather than the first.

There's no problem addressing his weaknesses and as any other player he has them, but those myths are annoying because they aren't true.

[hamad138 190]

I dont blame him, i just repeated what barca fans told me

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

THANK YOU!

I'm sounding like a broken record... but if you want Cesc to play more forward, behind the striker, he needs a few things (he and anyone else really), which are: 1) space; OR 2) players running behind defenses and channels for him to spot them; OR 3) width.

There's only so much you can do when the other team is sitting there waiting for you and your own team has absolutely NO attack ambition. No players making runs, no players going to the wings to create space for him in the middle, no nothing.

And to make things worse Costa was off pace and lacked rhythm which minimized our attack power even more.

Cesc had a weak match, imo Luiz neutralized him, but the tactics also played a great part on it.

I'm not saying he absolutely works against big teams. I think attacking wise - when we offer him service and opportunity to that - he does. His problem against big teams is playing defensively in the pivot. His problem has never and will never be being creative. But if we don't give him the conditions to play his game, there's no way he can do it. If that's how Mourinho is going to approach those big games, I'd rather him not to play Cesc at all because the naive and the haters, critics and moaners will come with the old story he doesn't play well in big games (which can be true if he's well marked, but it's true to him and 98% of the players out there) when in fact Mourinho is sacrificing the team's attack and therefore, Cesc's chances too.

I think you underestimate how easily cesc is taken out if the game through just decent marking, way more easier than the average player I'm starting to think, but that's just down to his lack of athleticism. Thing is, he is intelligent. If you are being shadowed then move and drag the opposing shape around, if he keeps shape then he has time to receive the ball, turn and look. But he just hasn't done that in any of the big games.

Personally I wouldn't out it down to him not just being good enough to play the big teams, I just think you have to see his fit. He is not a box to box midfielder or a holding one. He will not step up and take control of the game, without possession at least. A midfield 3 where he has less need to occupy space and more license to roam and knit together play is his role, which to be fair as a 10 should give him that a freedom. I can only think jose has instructed him otherwise.

[Barbara 15,149]

I think you underestimate how easily cesc is taken out if the game through just decent marking, way more easier than the average player I'm starting to think, but that's just down to his lack of athleticism. Thing is, he is intelligent. If you are being shadowed then move and drag the opposing shape around, if he keeps shape then he has time to receive the ball, turn and look. But he just hasn't done that in any of the big games.

Personally I wouldn't out it down to him not just being good enough to play the big teams, I just think you have to see his fit. He is not a box to box midfielder or a holding one. He will not step up and take control of the game, without possession at least. A midfield 3 where he has less need to occupy space and more license to roam and knit together play is his role, which to be fair as a 10 should give him that a freedom. I can only think jose has instructed him otherwise.

I agree he's easily marked off of a game, but he can still influence it because all he needs is a moment of genius because he makes his lack of athleticism with his intelligence - as you implied. If OUR team is attacked minded and the opposition is marking him off the game, still he could end up with a winner assist because he's that kind of player. I'm not denying he has limitations, but that wasn't the case today. Luiz didn't nullify him on athleticism, his work was cut for him because the way we played made it way too easy to mark Cesc and all the other guys.

People just ignore OUR approach in those games and what OUR manager asks from ALL of our attacking players defensively wise isolating our striker, which is why I said I prefer if Cesc is dropped altogether from those matches because at least then people won't blame him for something that is partially his own limitation but also largely due to Mourinho's approach in those matches. He ran nearly 2km more than the average in the team, which means he moved and ran a lot, but I suppose defensively because no matter if it's Willian, Oscar or Cesc there, in big matches Mourinho will just demand them to mark more than they attack. That's hardly their fault...

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

I agree he's easily marked off of a game, but he can still influence it because all he needs is a moment of genius because he makes his lack of athleticism with his intelligence - as you implied. If OUR team is attacked minded and the opposition is marking him off the game, still he could end up with a winner assist because he's that kind of player. I'm not denying he has limitations, but that wasn't the case today. Luiz didn't nullify him on athleticism, his work was cut for him because the way we played made it way too easy to mark Cesc and all the other guys.

People just ignore OUR approach in those games and what OUR manager asks from ALL of our attacking players defensively wise isolating our striker, which is why I said I prefer if Cesc is dropped altogether from those matches because at least then people won't blame him for something that is partially his own limitation but also largely due to Mourinho's approach in those matches. He ran nearly 2km more than the average in the team, which means he moved and ran a lot, but I suppose defensively because no matter if it's Willian, Oscar or Cesc there, in big matches Mourinho will just demand them to mark more than they attack. That's hardly their fault...

Well I think we can both come to the same agreement, albeit through slightly different reasons.

Perhaps in the business end of the champions league it may be prudent to think if dropping cesc for the betterment of the time (specifically in away games and against certain teams)

He ran a monstrous amount today which credits the guys character and resilience, it was not down to fault that he didn't play well today. But I think this is important, as it shows that to a large extent fabregas' performance May influenced by things out of his control.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

It's not Fabregas his fault that he's less effective against the big teams. It's the way we play against the big teams that's the problem.

He needs the ball to work his magic and in the big games we usually don't see much of the ball.

He also needs runners, players in front of the ball, to pick out.

Hazard and Willian are always defending deep in the big games so it takes them some time to get into a forward position again and by that time the opponent is right on top of Fabregas and he can't pass the ball anymore.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

There's no point saying anything about Fabregas' performance in this game.The same way there's nothing to say about any one of our attacking players. Courtois was always going to be the MOTM. Pele, Maradona or Messi won't have made any difference for Chelsea tonight. ABSOLUTELY no difference. I'll reserve judgement for the reverse fixture.

[Henrique 9,133]

Easily the worst performance in a UCL game since Bertrand horror show against Shaktar seasons ago.

[Styles 9,790]

Fabregas reminded me so much of Mata last night: slow, weak and completely pointless. We may as well have had another runner or defender in his place; that would almost certainly have benefitted us more than whatever Fabregas was offering.

[Stats 7,046]

2 supposed "myths" about him were

1. Not a big game player.

2. Tapers off towards the end of the season.

Seems like both the "myths" are actually a reality

Maybe if we actually tried to attack the opposition we would see the best of him. How can you see the best of him when we are not looking to attack? Arsenal always attack. Let me give a few 'big games' where he was the sole difference.

-Arsenal 3-1 Chelsea (yes us)- Fabregas 2 assists and 1 goal. Completely ran the show.(MOTM)

-AC Milan 0-2 Arsenal- Fabregas bossed that match. Outperformed Kaka and scored. MOTM.

-Man United 0-1 Arsenal- Fabregas provides a moment of magic minutes before the end just before the game looked like it was ending stalemate. Provides an excellent pass for Adebayor who makes it 1-0 to Arsenal.

Not to mention the countless games he destroyed Tottenham. Not the biggest team but when Fabregas was at Arsenal, they had a quality team competing for the top 4.

Oh and look at this, when we do decide to use him properly and give him freedom of the ball what happened this season. He provides one of the pass of the season for Costa in our 2-0 victory over Arsenal. He was given MOTM after the game. We let him do what he does best and made Ozil look like a clown.

Look, I am not denying he was poor last night but it is because of the tactics we play. If we had a go at them and looked to play he would look much better. Is Verratti better than Fabregas? No. Was he made to look better yesterday? Yes, because they play to his strengths and he is able to do what he does best. Ask Verratti or Silva or anyone to do what Fabregas had to yesterday and they are going to be marginalised out of the game. If we play these type of tactics in the big games then we might as well just drop him altogether.

[Special Juan 27,419]

Having a go at him when we played so defensively is laughable.

[didierforever 7,349]

Mayve if we actually tried to attack the opposition we would see the best of him. How ca you see the best of him when we are not looking to attack. Arsenal always attack. Let me give a few 'big games' where he was the sole difference.

-Arsenal 3-1 Chelsea (yes us)- Fabregas 2 assists and 1 goal. Completely ran the show.(MOTM)

-AC Milan 0-2 Arsenal- Fabregas bossed that match. Outperformed Kaka and scored. MOTM.

-Man United 0-1 Arsenal- Fabregas provides a moment of magic minutes before the end just before the game looked like it was ending stalemate. Provides an excellent pass for Adebayor who makes it 1-0 to Arsenal.

Not to mention the countless games he destroyed Tottenham. Not the biggest team but when Fabregas was at Arsenal, they had a quality team competing for the top 4.

Oh and look at this, when we do decide to use him properly and give him freedom of the ball what happened this season. He provides one of the pass of the season for Costa in our 2-0 victory over Arsenal. He was given MOTM after the game. We let him do what he does best and made Ozil look like a clown.

Look, I am no denying he was poor last night but it is because of the tactics we play. If we had a go at them and looked to play he would look much better. Is Verratti better than Fabregas? No. Was he made to look better yesterday? Yes, because they play to his strengths and he is able to do what he does best. Ask Verratti or Silva or anyone to do what Fabregas had to yesterday and they are going to be marginalised out of the game. If we play these type of tactics in the big games then we might as well just drop him altogether.

so you have 3 instances of him playing well in a big match in how long a career exactly? should i give the countless number of classicos or his performance for us against big teams. got owned by fellaini against united, non-existent vs spurs, pool, city. everytime he has played for us this season in abig game, his "performance" has been awful.

his "performance" also includes the defensive side of his game. he is a DLP for god's sake. i am sorry but expecting to mindlessly attack a team that beat barca 3-2 at their home is not the brightest thing to do if you ask me. and please dont tell me we dint attack yesterday. in the first half, psg had a gameplan of sitting back and countering us. dont tell me that we did not have the possession. we were poor because both of our players at the top had a very bad day at the office. costa looked rusty and cesc looked absolutely awful, something which has happened against any team against whom we dont have 9 men committed to attack. i am sorry but thats not the bloody way of playing good teams. so yes, if cesc continues this trend, we may very well be better to drop him.