Post-season review - Chelsea 2013/14

[Weckerz 3,781]

wtf is this..

1. still competing in the CL

2. We were top of the league just a few days ago and still have a decent shot at the title

Taking into account the squad without a proper striker or playmaker I'm not sure how this season can be anything but a success so far?

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

That's one of the funniest things I've read here lately

Unless you're serious...

If you think Jose is approaching things like he did in his first spell here I'd have to ask if you were a fan back then (maybe you were too young to remember) bc that makes no sense otherwise. His philosophy and approach were completely different. Sharper, more aggressive, less tests were done, he went for a completely different profile of players. Schurrle, Salah, even Marco didn't come to be bench warmers for 3 seasons. They've been used and will be even more next season. So how is his method the same? Enlighten me please

Last time he also had a relatively young squad. If I remember correct Lampard an Terry were in their early 20s, as well as Gudjonhson and Duff. Robben and Cech were one of the most exciting young prospects when we got him; and I should also mention that many of them never won a major trophy before so you could not say they were experienced winners . And lets not forget that the two seasons after that we spent huge amounts of money on young players that were made by other clubs or introduced by them. £21 million on Shaun Wright Phillips, £25 million on a 23 year old Essien, £18 million on a teenage Mikel. How is this any different? We are still paying huge amounts of money for players that were molded by other clubs so they can make an immediate impact. A real change of emphasis would be actually using scouting and networks to bring in young players (mainly 16-200 that we bring up ourselves through the youth and reserve squad that would blended into the team. So far, despite claiming throughout the summer that youth products like Kalas, Chalobah ect would be used in this season, we have not seen any of them given any starts at all. The fact that we are paying £12 million pounds on Zouma who already has over 40 appearances at 18 with his parent club (and was heavily hyped over Europe) instead of giving the likes of Kalas a chance says it all. If he were to actually use youth products that did not cost over £10 million pounds and got rid of some of the older players like Lampard, Cole and Ivanovic to make way for them, then I would see this as long term planning with a completely different direction of managing the club. So far its the same old, expensive transfers for players other clubs have molded so they can make an immediate (or in about 6 months) impact.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Added a poll as suggested by some.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Last time he also had a relatively young squad. If I remember correct Lampard an Terry were in their early 20s, as well as Gudjonhson and Duff. Robben and Cech were one of the most exciting young prospects when we got him; and I should also mention that many of them never won a major trophy before so you could not say they were experienced winners . And lets not forget that the two seasons after that we spent huge amounts of money on young players that were made by other clubs or introduced by them. £21 million on Shaun Wright Phillips, £25 million on a 23 year old Essien, £18 million on a teenage Mikel. How is this any different? We are still paying huge amounts of money for players that were molded by other clubs so they can make an immediate impact. A real change of emphasis would be actually using scouting and networks to bring in young players (mainly 16-200 that we bring up ourselves through the youth and reserve squad that would blended into the team. So far, despite claiming throughout the summer that youth products like Kalas, Chalobah ect would be used in this season, we have not seen any of them given any starts at all. The fact that we are paying £12 million pounds on Zouma who already has over 40 appearances at 18 with his parent club (and was heavily hyped over Europe) instead of giving the likes of Kalas a chance says it all. If he were to actually use youth products that did not cost over £10 million pounds and got rid of some of the older players like Lampard, Cole and Ivanovic to make way for them, then I would see this as long term planning with a completely different direction of managing the club. So far its the same old, expensive transfers for players other clubs have molded so they can make an immediate (or in about 6 months) impact.

Chalobah you may have a point. Kalas got injured near the start of the season and where he would've got games I don't know.

Simple fact is that you're judging him way too soon. You can't just throw young players in when there's no spine to the team. We can actually play Chalobah next season ALONGSIDE Matic, but are you seriously saying that either Mikel or Ramires had enough leadership skills to actually take him under their wing? As for the older guard, he's sold Essien (a guy you were unequivocally disrespectful too if I remember correctly) and dropped Cole. Who would you like him to play now? Aina?

I've criticised him (because I am capable and willing to do that when I feel it is appropriate and not in a scattergun manner like you do you mewling quim) for not going with Lukaku this season but beyond that it's hard to fault the guy when it comes to integrating youth. You need that firm foundation to do that though, unless you're as hopeless as we were last season in which case fuck it.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Chalobah you may have a point. Kalas got injured near the start of the season and where he would've got games I don't know.

Simple fact is that you're judging him way too soon. You can't just throw young players in when there's no spine to the team. We can actually play Chalobah next season ALONGSIDE Matic, but are you seriously saying that either Mikel or Ramires had enough leadership skills to actually take him under their wing? As for the older guard, he's sold Essien (a guy you were unequivocally disrespectful too if I remember correctly) and dropped Cole. Who would you like him to play now? Aina?

I've criticised him (because I am capable and willing to do that when I feel it is appropriate and not in a scattergun manner like you do you mewling quim) for not going with Lukaku this season but beyond that it's hard to fault the guy when it comes to integrating youth. You need that firm foundation to do that though, unless you're as hopeless as we were last season in which case fuck it.

What, you need a firm foundation and someone to guide them to just introduce at least one youth player into the team? I don't buy that excuse (which is you trying to create a chicken and egg paradox), is it really just hard to make way for one youth player, you can't just trying to make excuses to try and not play them (whether its because they don't have enough experience or because their is no one to take them under the wing (Seriously? they are football players not Jedi knights) despite the fact that the likes of Terry and Ivanovic (who apparently are leaders) are regulars in the team. That's the reason why they have been rotting away on loan. Since Jose is apparently here for the long term and does not have to win anything this season (and possibly the next 2 seasons after that), there is no reason why he can't introduce them into the squad now and make them part of the "foundation" you claim is needed. You have to take chances with these players instead of spending £12 million on someone like Zouma who already has first team experience and basically means that we won't bother with the likes of Chalobah and Kalas. Just look at Everton and Martinez in his first season who have introduced Barkley and Stones into the squad, who don't have world class players like Hazard now has a really good chance of landing a top four spot, if he can do that in his first season then Jose has no excuse.

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

If we win the title and maybe a cup next season then this one will be a success. If we don't it will be a big failure.

[The only place to be 11,313]

What, you need a firm foundation and someone to guide them to just introduce at least one youth player into the team? I don't buy that excuse (which is you trying to create a chicken and egg paradox), is it really just hard to make way for one youth player, you can't just trying to make excuses to try and not play them (whether its because they don't have enough experience or because their is no one to take them under the wing (Seriously? they are football players not Jedi knights) despite the fact that the likes of Terry and Ivanovic (who apparently are leaders) are regulars in the team. That's the reason why they have been rotting away on loan. Since Jose is apparently here for the long term and does not have to win anything this season (and possibly the next 2 seasons after that), there is no reason why he can't introduce them into the squad now and make them part of the "foundation" you claim is needed. You have to take chances with these players instead of spending £12 million on someone like Zouma who already has first team experience and basically means that we won't bother with the likes of Chalobah and Kalas. Just look at Everton and Martinez in his first season who have introduced Barkley and Stones into the squad, who don't have world class players like Hazard now has a really good chance of landing a top four spot, if he can do that in his first season then Jose has no excuse.

Once again, with Chalobah you may well have had a point. With Kalas I completely disagree because he's simply not good enough right now based on what I've seen. If you've got a specific game where you'd have liked to have seen him play and in which position then maybe you might have a kernel of a point. But I actually think you're whinging for the sake of it.

I'd also agree with you if you'd have said Lukaku, although there is a possibility that the two goals he scored in the Merseyside derby could be fairly important. But I'd have liked to have seen him retained in place of Ba (at the time I thought getting Eto'o was pointless but he's done well and proven me wrong).

Barkley has been inconsistent, as has Lukaku which is why you can't rely entirely on youth. Last season I would've been more inclined to agree with you but Mourinho is actually building something here. Once you have a firm foundation, then you can start to take chances on young players. Once you have a spine to the team, it's easier to introduce youngsters.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Once again, with Chalobah you may well have had a point. With Kalas I completely disagree because he's simply not good enough right now based on what I've seen. If you've got a specific game where you'd have liked to have seen him play and in which position then maybe you might have a kernel of a point. But I actually think you're whinging for the sake of it.

I'd also agree with you if you'd have said Lukaku, although there is a possibility that the two goals he scored in the Merseyside derby could be fairly important. But I'd have liked to have seen him retained in place of Ba (at the time I thought getting Eto'o was pointless but he's done well and proven me wrong).

Barkley has been inconsistent, as has Lukaku which is why you can't rely entirely on youth. Last season I would've been more inclined to agree with you but Mourinho is actually building something here. Once you have a firm foundation, then you can start to take chances on young players. Once you have a spine to the team, it's easier to introduce youngsters.

There is a difference between sending out teams mainly comprising of nothing but youth and giving at least 1-2 around out along on a pitch that will still have the desired experience of players such as Terry - at the end of the day there will be inconsistencies, that I'm not denying, but you have to take a risk instead of shelling out millions of pounds for other players because you don't want to mold them yourselves. And once you get the so called foundations what next? Will we not play them because they have not enough first team experience and farm them out on loan again, then after that make more excuses. Go that way and we never integrate with our academy, because of this fear of taking risks.

Put it this way, when Barkley was forced out on loan he did absolutely nothing, despite being in a lower league. But when he is given a chance he shines, and it shows with nearly everyone demanding him in the squad for the world cup

[The only place to be 11,313]

There is a difference between sending out teams mainly comprising of nothing but youth and giving at least 1-2 around out along on a pitch that will still have the desired experience of players such as Terry - at the end of the day there will be inconsistencies, that I'm not denying, but you have to take a risk instead of shelling out millions of pounds for other players because you don't want to mold them yourselves. And once you get the so called foundations what next? Will we not play them because they have not enough first team experience and farm them out on loan again, then after that make more excuses. Go that way and we never integrate with our academy, because of this fear of taking risks.

Put it this way, when Barkley was forced out on loan he did absolutely nothing, despite being in a lower league. But when he is given a chance he shines, and it shows with nearly everyone demanding him in the squad for the world cup

You'll find no greater supporter of youth around here than me, but this was not the season to fuck around with things and I'm sorry but if the best example you can come up with is Kalas then you're barking up the wrong tree. The defence was too important to make any changes to it. Bertrand couldn't get a game, neither can Cole so Kalas had no chance. It's unfortunate but unfortunately it seems necessary.

Chalobah could've played a role as a midfielder in Mikel or Essien's place. Neither of those is likely to be here next season so I'd be shocked if Chalobah doesn't get a chance.

Lukaku is probably the only other player you've got a case for (beyond Baker and Ake) and as I've said I'm massively disappointed with the fact he went out on loan and I think that could be the difference between us winning the league and not winning it.

But honestly I think your point is spurious at best and if you're bringing up the lack of playing time for Tomas Kalas as a point in deciding whether this was a successful season or not then I think this discussion has run it's course.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

You'll find no greater supporter of youth around here than me, but this was not the season to fuck around with things and I'm sorry but if the best example you can come up with is Kalas then you're barking up the wrong tree. The defence was too important to make any changes to it. Bertrand couldn't get a game, neither can Cole so Kalas had no chance. It's unfortunate but unfortunately it seems necessary.

Chalobah could've played a role as a midfielder in Mikel or Essien's place. Neither of those is likely to be here next season so I'd be shocked if Chalobah doesn't get a chance.

Lukaku is probably the only other player you've got a case for (beyond Baker and Ake) and as I've said I'm massively disappointed with the fact he went out on loan and I think that could be the difference between us winning the league and not winning it.

But honestly I think your point is spurious at best and if you're bringing up the lack of playing time for Tomas Kalas as a point in deciding whether this was a successful season or not then I think this discussion has run it's course.

Of course what I keep bringing up is the fact that when we see the expensive purchases of say someone like Zouma and the probability of buying an expensive striker (which would mean that the likes of Lukaku or Bamford not getting a run of starts) shows that there is no signs at all that we are actually going to do what Jose claimed in the summer and integrate players from the youth and reserve squads, as lets face it why would Jose want to actually try and get someone like Chalobah, Ake or Lukaku to be given a chance when he can just ask for expensive transfers for hyped up players like Zouma who get first team experience from their parent clubs. Like I said last time we only used young players if we payed a hefty price for them and this season and its transfers indicates that we are going to be doing exactly the same, which means that young players from our own academy, no matter how well they do in the u21 matches or while out on loan won't get a chance because Mourinho wants to buy and use ready made players or does that had most of their development done at other clubs before buying them, which is what I have been arguing time and time again.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Of course what I keep bringing up is the fact that when we see the expensive purchases of say someone like Zouma and the probability of buying an expensive striker (which would mean that the likes of Lukaku or Bamford not getting a run of starts) shows that there is no signs at all that we are actually going to do what Jose claimed in the summer and integrate players from the youth and reserve squads, as lets face it why would Jose want to actually try and get someone like Chalobah, Ake or Lukaku to be given a chance when he can just ask for expensive transfers for hyped up players like Zouma who get first team experience from their parent clubs. Like I said last time we only used young players if we payed a hefty price for them and this season and its transfers indicates that we are going to be doing exactly the same, which means that young players from our own academy, no matter how well they do in the u21 matches or while out on loan won't get a chance because Mourinho wants to buy and use ready made players or does that had most of their development done at other clubs before buying them, which is what I have been arguing time and time again.

Mate have to disagree - The only place to be is right here - Mourinho needs consistency and leadership.

Prime example Utd last night - dropped Januzzi (spelling?) arguably their best player this season, but not experienced enough, so he didnt play and Utd could have won that game...

Same with our players. You only have to read the matchday threads and listen to the uproar of losing at Palace - now what would it be like if he had selected youngsters with little or no experience?

I have said for the past 3-4 seasons, we no longer have a style of play. Jose is trying to build this - then younger players can step in and play, guided by the more experienced players. We have too much to lose - gambling on these players...

I know you don't buy that - but as a Director, responsible for lots of moving parts in a multi-national, multi billion dollar business - I would never drop somebody into a critical situation without ensuring proper grounding - it's just irresponsible. Jose is doing just that.

Is Chalobah ready? Not yet in my opinion

Is Kalas ready? Again not yet

Lukaku? Drifts in and out for Everton, is he the answer to Chelsea's problems? Maybe - but he needs to accept 2nd place for a while and learn, can we afford that learning curve? Not really...

So it's never an easy decision - balancing opportunity with risk and I think Jose has done well. I mean seriously nobody called Azpi as potentially the best LB in the league - except Mourinho...

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Mate have to disagree - The only place to be is right here - Mourinho needs consistency and leadership.

Prime example Utd last night - dropped Januzzi (spelling?) arguably their best player this season, but not experienced enough, so he didnt play and Utd could have won that game...

Same with our players. You only have to read the matchday threads and listen to the uproar of losing at Palace - now what would it be like if he had selected youngsters with little or no experience?

I have said for the past 3-4 seasons, we no longer have a style of play. Jose is trying to build this - then younger players can step in and play, guided by the more experienced players. We have too much to lose - gambling on these players...

I know you don't buy that - but as a Director, responsible for lots of moving parts in a multi-national, multi billion dollar business - I would never drop somebody into a critical situation without ensuring proper grounding - it's just irresponsible. Jose is doing just that.

Is Chalobah ready? Not yet in my opinion

Is Kalas ready? Again not yet

Lukaku? Drifts in and out for Everton, is he the answer to Chelsea's problems? Maybe - but he needs to accept 2nd place for a while and learn, can we afford that learning curve? Not really...

So it's never an easy decision - balancing opportunity with risk and I think Jose has done well. I mean seriously nobody called Azpi as potentially the best LB in the league - except Mourinho...

Of course you can look at Everton who are in the exact same position as us, new manager who isimplementing hisown style of football that wasdifferent from the previous manager, yet at the same time has bled the likes of Barkley and Stones in the team, the former who was (just like many of are young prospects) was farmed off to loan (on the ideathat he has no experieance and is not ready) with not much success but as soon as he is given a run out in the first teamwith actual faith from the manager and hasbeen such asuccess that their are major callsfor him to be on the starting 11 England team for the world cup.

So Jose, whoisbuilding the teamfor the future and iscreating thislong term identity and did not need to win anything in the near future, could not introduce one young prospect which he claimed he would do throughtout last summer? Surely this would be the best time so they can get the so called experience you desire (which Ithink is just a bollocks excuse to not use them but just farm them off on loan) when thereisno expectationfor the team apart from a top 4 place. The fact that we are still buying ready made talent in thelikes of Salah and Zouma (which is what we have been doing ever since Roman took over) shows to me that nothing has changed.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Of course you can look at Everton who are in the exact same position as us,

What a ludicrous statement to make. Even with the caveats that followed there are vast differences between a manager returning to a club and Everton taking a punt on someone like Martinez. The level of expectation in the two clubs are worlds apart.

The fact that we are still buying ready made talent in thelikes of Salah and Zouma (which is what we have been doing ever since Roman took over) shows to me that nothing has changed.

Neither Salah nor Zouma are 'ready made talents'. They're both young prospects who are really no-lose punts, a bit like De Bruyne was.

I simply think your expectations are wildly out of kilter with those of any reasonable football supporter. We HAD to build a foundation first which is why the back four has hardly changed (not that fans like you were moaning when we went on the winning streak over the winter months) and it has nothing to do with a refusal to play young players. Ashley Cole, Ryan Bertrand, Michael Essien and Tomas Kalas were all treated fairly similarly. In fact Bertrand was allowed to go on loan and Ake was promoted to the first-team squad.

Whilst I am very sympathetic to those who want to see young players promoted at this club, beyond Chalobah and Lukaku I don't think any other player could really have been given a shot this season. If this continues next season then your point would be valid but I think you're prematurely eviscerating Mourinho to fit the agenda you held before he was appointed as head coach.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Of course you can look at Everton who are in the exact same position as us, new manager who isimplementing hisown style of football that wasdifferent from the previous manager, yet at the same time has bled the likes of Barkley and Stones in the team, the former who was (just like many of are young prospects) was farmed off to loan (on the ideathat he has no experieance and is not ready) with not much success but as soon as he is given a run out in the first teamwith actual faith from the manager and hasbeen such asuccess that their are major callsfor him to be on the starting 11 England team for the world cup.

So Jose, whoisbuilding the teamfor the future and iscreating thislong term identity and did not need to win anything in the near future, could not introduce one young prospect which he claimed he would do throughtout last summer? Surely this would be the best time so they can get the so called experience you desire (which Ithink is just a bollocks excuse to not use them but just farm them off on loan) when thereisno expectationfor the team apart from a top 4 place. The fact that we are still buying ready made talent in thelikes of Salah and Zouma (which is what we have been doing ever since Roman took over) shows to me that nothing has changed.

Mate I have been reading your responses. With all due respect, though you are entitled of your own opinion, but that is a lot of negativity. You don't build the team's main spine in a blink. There is a great difference between Salah/Zouma and the youngsters at the academy. These players have competed at decent levels. Swiss league ain't much, but surely it is stronger than the youth competitions. You need to loan out youngsters. They need to get some contact and feel of the game. When you loan them you basically minimize your risks by letting them gain experience (though not extensive) and you get to test their adaptation without having risk on your team's results. The expectations of Chelsea are much higher than Everton's. You cannot compare both. No body, expects Everton to compete for the title every year, or be in the UCL every season. You have to take all things in consideration, not just from one narrow angle.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

What a ludicrous statement to make. Even with the caveats that followed there are vast differences between a manager returning to a club and Everton taking a punt on someone like Martinez. The level of expectation in the two clubs are worlds apart.

Neither Salah nor Zouma are 'ready made talents'. They're both young prospects who are really no-lose punts, a bit like De Bruyne was.

Of course they are in the same position (apart from where they are currently standing in the tables). You say Mourinho is here for the long term for Chelsea, so is Martinez, you say that Jose is trying to build his own style without expectations to win things for the team, so is Martinez.

And who will be getting the first team chances in the next season or two. It won't be the likesof Chalobah and Ake (they will probably be sent of on loans) it will by the players we just spent over £20 millions pounds for. Both who have gotten first team experience for their clubs (and in Salah's case Champions league experience), and then soon after that we will probably make more large money transfers for other players who are either older or were molded by their parent clubs. That is what I'm seeing at the moment.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Mate I have been reading your responses. With all due respect, though you are entitled of your own opinion, but that is a lot of negativity. You don't build the team's main spine in a blink. There is a great difference between Salah/Zouma and the youngsters at the academy. These players have competed at decent levels. Swiss league ain't much, but surely it is stronger than the youth competitions. You need to loan out youngsters. They need to get some contact and feel of the game. When you loan them you basically minimize your risks by letting them gain experience (though not extensive) and you get to test their adaptation without having risk on your team's results. The expectations of Chelsea are much higher than Everton's. You cannot compare both. No body, expects Everton to compete for the title every year, or be in the UCL every season. You have to take all things in consideration, not just from one narrow angle.

The problem is that as seen many times it just becomes a way of trying to push back the issue of trying to give them chances into the squad for as long as possible. Taking the view that I think that the whole issue of expeirence is just a bollocks excuse that isused to try and justify why they can't get a run in the first team, the problem iswhen do we reach a point where they have the required 'experience' to be given a chance in the team. First its they have no experience at all, so they are shipped out to some lower division team, then its they have no top flight experience, so the club tries to ship them out to one, then its'but they don't have any experience playing for us' or no Champions league experience, so their chances are stalled again, then by that time we buy someone like Zouma (who lates faces was getting massive amounts of hype andalready has over 40 appearances in Ligue 1) who becuase we spent a hefty sum of money (both Zouma and Salah cost usover £20 million pounds) get priority andso we are back to square one.

In all honesty the same arguments are going back and forth and there is no point repeating them, the phase 'agree to disagree' comes to mind now.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Of course they are in the same position (apart from where they are currently standing in the tables). You say Mourinho is here for the long term for Chelsea, so is Martinez, you say that Jose is trying to build his own style without expectations to win things for the team, so is Martinez.

And who will be getting the first team chances in the next season or two. It won't be the likesof Chalobah and Ake (they will probably be sent of on loans) it will by the players we just spent over £20 millions pounds for. Both who have gotten first team experience for their clubs (and in Salah's case Champions league experience), and then soon after that we will probably make more large money transfers for other players who are either older or were molded by their parent clubs. That is what I'm seeing at the moment.

You're being utterly ridiculous if you actually think that Everton are in the same position as us. Seriously, you're either trolling or you're stupid. Martinez has the freedom to take punts on the likes of Barkley, Stones and Deulefeu partly out of lowered expectations and partly out of necessity.

Ake probably will be sent on-loan because he needs it. He's unlikely to get ahead of anyone in the first-team so why not give him first-team experience? Chalobah has a chance next season if Mikel and Lampard do go, plus he's versatile so is good to have on the bench. Bamford needs a Premier League loan next season, whilst Baker has probably outgrown the reserves.

Your arguments now are becoming ridiculous. I asked you when you would've liked to have seen someone like Kalas get a chance and you couldn't answer. There's no point in talking to someone who speaks in generalities without actually talking in real terms.

In all honesty the same arguments are going back and forth and there is no point repeating them, the phase 'agree to disagree' comes to mind now.

I think that's best. The funny thing is that no-one seems to agree with you.

[Fulham Broadway 16,845]

Rubber bullets - . As per usual you appear on the forum when Chelsea lose, and the main target of your vitriol is Mourinho, though it used to be Drogba/Terry/Lampard -three of Chelseas greatest players ever.

It just seems you want a reaction, and to be noticed as I have never seen anything positive at all. I find it difficult to comprehend you as the usual spastic troll, because your arguments are constructed with a level of articulacy, but by the same token I could never imagine you singing a Chelsea song. If we get a result tonight, lets have a positive post mate, eh ?