Nemanja Matic

[CHOULO19 24,332]

57 minutes ago, Robguima said:

Yeah we defended so much better after he left... By only conceding 2 more goals...

ths forum...

Yes because football is that simplistic that goals scored and conceded are a direct result of single substitution. By that logic Matic should be sold for destroying our ability to score goals since we scored 3 after he went off!

This forum, indeed... 

[robsblubot 3,205]

9 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

Yes because football is that simplistic that goals scored and conceded are a direct result of single substitution. By that logic Matic should be sold for destroying our ability to score goals since we scored 3 after he went off!

This forum, indeed... 

no of course not, but reading some posts on this site would led you to believe that nonsense.

I was not referring to your post, though you did kinda imply it with your 'shocking' statement... but since you quoted mine, you also kinda negated your own point within the same post: Matic positioning was nonexistent perhaps because he was not supposed to hold position... having a player next to him who can do nothing but hold position seems like reason enough for Hiddink to tell him to roam around.

my point remains we were crap before Matic and we were just as crappy after he left (results only show how crappy we've been). And yet this thread remains pretty busy.

of course after 10 years and one pl goal Mikel has become the answer to our problems...  I jsut can't take this very seriously.

I think Matic must be sold right now! I mean in Jan. Because if he is not good enough to start ahead of mikel then he needs to go. And since other clubs and managers are not as crazy as well are, rumor has it they may actually pay good money for Matic... gasp! So, why not sell him if he is not good enough? now now... don't go asking 45M euros for him, because that'd be insane... According to TC Matic is worth around 10m.

I mean it's going to be just one more mistake the club makes. Letting talent go and sticking with the average... the filler. We do love our consistent fillers around here.

  

[CHOULO19 24,332]

2 hours ago, Robguima said:

no of course not, but reading some posts on this site would led you to believe that nonsense.

I was not referring to your post, though you did kinda imply it with your 'shocking' statement... but since you quoted mine, you also kinda negated your own point within the same post: Matic positioning was nonexistent perhaps because he was not supposed to hold position... having a player next to him who can do nothing but hold position seems like reason enough for Hiddink to tell him to roam around.

my point remains we were crap before Matic and we were just as crappy after he left (results only show how crappy we've been). And yet this thread remains pretty busy.

of course after 10 years and one pl goal Mikel has become the answer to our problems...  I jsut can't take this very seriously.

I think Matic must be sold right now! I mean in Jan. Because if he is not good enough to start ahead of mikel then he needs to go. And since other clubs and managers are not as crazy as well are, rumor has it they may actually pay good money for Matic... gasp! So, why not sell him if he is not good enough? now now... don't go asking 45M euros for him, because that'd be insane... According to TC Matic is worth around 10m.

I mean it's going to be just one more mistake the club makes. Letting talent go and sticking with the average... the filler. We do love our consistent fillers around here.

  

His positioning was often awful solely because of personal errors. There were several times on Everton attacks where he was occupying space that neither restricts passing options nor player movement. That's not tactics, just shit defending and positional awareness.

You do know that players don't just have an overall 'rating' and you just pick the one with the higher number, right? Same applies for so called 'market value', btw. There are different qualities in different roles as well as varying form and mental and physical readiness.

I don't intend to be mean, but honestly, your annoyance at the key role that Mikel (a CHELSEA player) has played in helping the team since Guus' return, is quite amusing to watch. 

You really need to stop making excuses for Matic and blaming his poor performances on other players. He has been inexcusably terrible throughout this season (bar half a game or two) and completely deserves to be sitting on the bench at the moment.

Of course that doesn't mean that we should sell him. On form and in the right role, he has the ability to be our most important and complete midfielder. 

[robsblubot 3,205]

16 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

His positioning was often awful solely because of personal errors. There were several times on Everton attacks where he was occupying space that neither restricts passing options nor player movement. That's not tactics, just shit defending and positional awareness.

You do know that players don't just have an overall 'rating' and you just pick the one with the higher number, right? Same applies for so called 'market value', btw. There are different qualities in different roles as well as varying form and mental and physical readiness.

I don't intend to be mean, but honestly, your annoyance at the key role that Mikel (a CHELSEA player) has played in helping the team since Guus' return, is quite amusing to watch. 

You really need to stop making excuses for Matic and blaming his poor performances on other players. He has been inexcusably terrible throughout this season (bar half a game or two) and completely deserves to be sitting on the bench at the moment.

Of course that doesn't mean that we should sell him. On form and in the right role, he has the ability to be our most important and complete midfielder. 

Right, but there are certain tiers in market value... some around here completely ignore it to qualify a player and I personally find that a bit silly. Messi has the highest market value for a footballer on earth for a reason.  

Oh helping the team to ... what exactly? What are we aiming for? not to drop? then yeah I should be grateful to the legend Mikel and his fantastic football; I can't see or remember anything remarkable he does, but hey the fault is certainly mine.

Please spare me with the Mikel rhetoric of key player and key role - it went stale 5 years ago.

Unfortunately for me, because I have a hard time watching us play like shit over and over again against mid and smaller teams at the bridge and then coming here and celebrating draws and 3 goals against. But I forget I am required to praise both Hiddink and Mikel who have the easiest job on earth.

You can't keep a player who's market value is in the 30-40m on the bench because he won't stay on the bench. He will hand in a transfer request eventually so why bother? Mikel accepts his long absences because he has no better option. Matic, however, does. That's another place market value matters: pecking order.

Jose was right in one thing: you recover your best players on the pitch. Worked with Ivanovic and would've worked with Matic and Hazard.

 

[manpe 10,855]

13 minutes ago, Robguima said:

Jose was right in one thing: you recover your best players on the pitch. Worked with Ivanovic

?

[robsblubot 3,205]

27 minutes ago, manpe said:

?

despite fantasies running rampant, Azpi on the left and Iva on the right are still lour best fullbacks. Iva will never go back to the good player he once was, but he is no longer the walking liability that he was in the beginning of the season.

 

WHether we should do better - different discussion.

[manpe 10,855]

14 minutes ago, Robguima said:

but he is no longer the walking liability that he was in the beginning of the season.

Did you see the game against Everton? He was, is and remains our biggest liability.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

2 minutes ago, Robguima said:

Right, but there are certain tiers in market value... some around here completely ignore it to qualify a player and I personally find that a bit silly. Messi has the highest market value for a footballer on earth for a reason.  

Oh helping the team to ... what exactly? What are we aiming for? not to drop? then yeah I should be grateful to the legend Mikel and his fantastic football; I can't see or remember anything remarkable he does, but hey the fault is certainly mine.

Please spare me with the Mikel rhetoric of key player and key role - it went stale 5 years ago.

Unfortunately for me, because I have a hard time watching us play like shit over and over again against mid and smaller teams at the bridge and then coming here and celebrating draws and 3 goals against. But I forget I am required to praise both Hiddink and Mikel who have the easiest job on earth.

You can't keep a player who's market value is in the 30-40m on the bench because he won't stay on the bench. He will hand in a transfer request eventually so why bother? Mikel accepts his long absences because he has no better option. Matic, however, does. That's another place market value matters: pecking order.

Jose was right in one thing: you recover your best players on the pitch. Worked with Ivanovic and would've worked with Matic and Hazard.

 

I'm sorry, but it seems to me that your defense of Matic' performance has absolutely nothing to do with Matic, nor his actual performances but are deeply rooted in your dislike for Mikel.

I can't debate that because there is nothing logical behind that, it's an emotional reaction. 

Again, I couldn't care less about market value. There are more exceptions than cases that follow the made up 'rule'. Yes, Messi has the highest market value in the world, but on the other hand, not a single player from Juve's XI in the CL final last season cost more than 10m. 

If Matic does not wish to fight for his place until at least he is performing better than Mikel, then frankly he can leave.

Finally, when your argument to keep playing Matic is based on how good Ivanovic has been playing...................

[robsblubot 3,205]

27 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

I'm sorry, but it seems to me that your defense of Matic' performance has absolutely nothing to do with Matic, nor his actual performances but are deeply rooted in your dislike for Mikel.

I can't debate that because there is nothing logical behind that, it's an emotional reaction. 

Again, I couldn't care less about market value. There are more exceptions than cases that follow the made up 'rule'. Yes, Messi has the highest market value in the world, but on the other hand, not a single player from Juve's XI in the CL final last season cost more than 10m. 

If Matic does not wish to fight for his place until at least he is performing better than Mikel, then frankly he can leave.

Finally, when your argument to keep playing Matic is based on how good Ivanovic has been playing...................

The selection of a player - of course! - depends on what options are available! Would Matic be an automatic starter in every top team in the world? Of course not! But he'd fare well in many... can't say the same of others... and it's not mikel only - Ramires too.

That's exactly how I feel about your opinion about him...

Good to know you also don't care about market value... that's precisely the part I found illogical about your opinion.

Once again, Ivanovic has not been great, what does that say about the ones on the bench? So, you trust the manager for selecting Mikel - despite his pretty low key history at the club - and then you say he is wrong (both him and Jose) for selecting Ivanovic? I have to believe they all see that there are no other viable option for the position... otherwise the club would be a joke.

 

[CHOULO19 24,332]

2 minutes ago, Robguima said:

That's exactly how I feel about your opinion about him...

Good to know you also don't care about market value... that's precisely the part I found illogical about your opinion.

Once again, Ivanovic has not been great, what does that say about the ones on the bench? So, you trust the manager for selecting Mikel - despite his pretty low key history at the club - and then you say he is wrong (both him and Jose) for selecting Ivanovic? I have to believe they all see that there are no other viable option for the position... otherwise the club would be a joke.

My opinion of Matic? My opinion that he has the ability to be a top class player with certain limitations (like his right foot and stamina) if he can work on his consistency? My opinion that next season we should be a key player in the system that we plan to build? Or are you talking about him being poor this season? Because that is NOT my opinion, that is undeniable fact. 

[Blue_Fox_ 2,086]

Apparently he has decided to leave in the summer according to the dailymail.

 

With his confidence affected, Matic is understood to be finding it difficult to get himself back to his desired level and is considering whether a change of club is what his career needs.

Team-mates believe he has already decided to leave in the summer though much could yet depend on Chelsea's next managerial appointment.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

I have faith that Matic will come good again.  I don't actually think he's been that terrible this year.  Just no where close the beastly 1.5 years prior.  

[iseah100 5,612]

I'm sorry, but it seems to me that your defense of Matic' performance has absolutely nothing to do with Matic, nor his actual performances but are deeply rooted in your dislike for Mikel.

I can't debate that because there is nothing logical behind that, it's an emotional reaction. 

Again, I couldn't care less about market value. There are more exceptions than cases that follow the made up 'rule'. Yes, Messi has the highest market value in the world, but on the other hand, not a single player from Juve's XI in the CL final last season cost more than 10m. 

If Matic does not wish to fight for his place until at least he is performing better than Mikel, then frankly he can leave.

Finally, when your argument to keep playing Matic is based on how good Ivanovic has been playing...................

The selection of a player - of course! - depends on what options are available! Would Matic be an automatic starter in every top team in the world? Of course not! But he'd fare well in many... can't say the same of others... and it's not mikel only - Ramires too.

That's exactly how I feel about your opinion about him... [emoji4]

Good to know you also don't care about market value... that's precisely the part I found illogical about your opinion.

Once again, Ivanovic has not been great, what does that say about the ones on the bench? So, you trust the manager for selecting Mikel - despite his pretty low key history at the club - and then you say he is wrong (both him and Jose) for selecting Ivanovic? I have to believe they all see that there are no other viable option for the position... otherwise the club would be a joke.

 

Matic would struggle to start at several top clubs with the way he's played the last year.

[MefiX19 1,092]

I am the only one who thinks that he was really good today? Made few runs, great passing (86%) and put few tackles. Hope he gets back to form of last season whe nhe was the main man on the pitch by doing that dirty job.

[The Skipper 20,593]

11 hours ago, MefiX19 said:

I am the only one who thinks that he was really good today? Made few runs, great passing (86%) and put few tackles. Hope he gets back to form of last season whe nhe was the main man on the pitch by doing that dirty job.

You have very low expectations of Matic if you thought he was very good. He was just about average. 

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Thought he was anonymous at intervals and generally needed to get more involved, but overall he was good in my book. Definitely his best performance of late.

[Henrique 9,133]

8 hours ago, The Skipper said:

You have very low expectations of Matic if you thought he was very good. He was just about average. 

Indeed. When the team was under pressure I remember a embarrassing pass that went straigh to sidelines, and 2 or 3 "turnovers" while trying to give short passes or just randomly trying long passes just to get rid of the ball. 

[Styles 9,790]

As bad as Ivanovic as been this season, tonight's display by Matic has been by far the worst performance of the season.

He is one of SEVERAL players that have to be let go this summer.