Best CM Pairing?

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Now we've finally sorted out the attacking position and we have more than enough depth in those three midfield spots this is our weakest area in the team in my opinion although but our fullback spots runs it close.

Ramires simply isn't good enough in that role. He's unstoppable when placed in a B2B role like he was under AVB but in the pivot his movement which is his biggest strength is restricted and his passing simply isn't good nor consistent enough for such a role. He's sensational defensively but in today's football that isn't enough.

Lampard on the other hand while positionally adept and still a match winner and goalscorer doesn't offer enough to maximize the talents of the three ahead of him. He's lost his mobility hence is movement is restricted and his passing while miles better than Rambo's it still isn't on the level where we should and want to be.

The CM position is the engine of the team, they're the calming influence, usually decide which team will be on the front foot and their #1 priority is to get their teammates the ball in the favoured and most dangerous positions.

I weep when I watch the likes of Pirlo, Gundogan, Vidal, Pogba, Modric, Xavi, Schweinsteiger, Busquets etc run the game from deep and then watch our lot aimlessly, slowly and innacurately distribute the ball or procrastinate their midfield duties and leave the job to Luiz.

Not saying Lampard and Ramires aren't capable starters but I think we have better options out there. Not everyone on here is a fan of Mikel but anyone who's seen him play for Nigeria knows how brilliant he is when he's given more responsibility who knows maybe with a bit of encouragement and freedom he'll be able to produce that same level for us. Who better for the job than the man who shackled a player regarded as the African Riquelme than Mourinho. MVG is brilliant defensively but his distribution is as bad as Ramires' at the moment.

Lampard's replacement should be Oscar in my opinion. Not only is it the best way of getting Mata into the team but he doesn't lack a single thing to perform the role apart from physique but he's light years ahead of Lampard in terms of defending. Ribery was having his way Schurrle and Ivanovic all night, Oscar moves to his flank and owns him on 3 separate occasions in 1 v 1 situations.

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble a bit now so who else agrees with me?

Mikel/MVG and Oscar paired starting at Everton away? Mou likes his favourites though so it might never happen.

[╫rue Blue 47]

just hope mourinho stop lampard-ramires as CM pair

i'm still like lampard to get some game, but if mourinho continue make him prime selection, thats bad

definitely better to try another pairing and give time MvG to develop and become quality midfielder, because right now he just decent but having really good talent

essien - ramires, rami-mikel, MvG-essien

far better option for our pivot, what mourinho need just time and patience

then just believe on lampard to making him starter in many game for the whole season

[cchuka 99]

I'd like to see a Mikel-Oscar combo

[Hutcho 8,443]

Would like to see Oscar tried deeper. Won't happen though.

The actual best partnership is pretty hard to judge because I have only seen van ginkel in pre season.

Essien also looked great then.

I am probably in the minority when i think that lampard still has a role to play, and has done the job asked of him.

Still probably wouldn't be in my first 11, though it all depends on the game situation.

[English Freak 456]

I think Ramires - Mikel would be an awesome CM pairing..(if Mikel plays like he does for Nigeria).

Ramires - Oscar against the weaker teams would be an interesting pairing.

[Phil Driver 503]

Jose has got this dead right Rammy and Lampard are a great pairing and will prove that this season,about time we started backing our special manager and not thinking we know better,after all that is why Mourinho is the best in the world at managing football clubs and we are not .

Amazed at how many people think they know better and now is the time to back the manager and not question him. Ramires and Lampard is our first choice midfield pairing this season whether we like it or not and it is up there with the best in European football. Ramires has great energy and tackling power and Lampard is class,team selection in the first four games has already told us who is our best midfield pairing .

[Phil Driver 503]

Now we've finally sorted out the attacking position and we have more than enough depth in those three midfield spots this is our weakest area in the team in my opinion although but our fullback spots runs it close.

Ramires simply isn't good enough in that role. He's unstoppable when placed in a B2B role like he was under AVB but in the pivot his movement which is his biggest strength is restricted and his passing simply isn't good nor consistent enough for such a role. He's sensational defensively but in today's football that isn't enough.

Lampard on the other hand while positionally adept and still a match winner and goalscorer doesn't offer enough to maximize the talents of the three ahead of him. He's lost his mobility hence is movement is restricted and his passing while miles better than Rambo's it still isn't on the level where we should and want to be.

The CM position is the engine of the team, they're the calming influence, usually decide which team will be on the front foot and their #1 priority is to get their teammates the ball in the favoured and most dangerous positions.

I weep when I watch the likes of Pirlo, Gundogan, Vidal, Pogba, Modric, Xavi, Schweinsteiger, Busquets etc run the game from deep and then watch our lot aimlessly, slowly and innacurately distribute the ball or procrastinate their midfield duties and leave the job to Luiz.

Not saying Lampard and Ramires aren't capable starters but I think we have better options out there. Not everyone on here is a fan of Mikel but anyone who's seen him play for Nigeria knows how brilliant he is when he's given more responsibility who knows maybe with a bit of encouragement and freedom he'll be able to produce that same level for us. Who better for the job than the man who shackled a player regarded as the African Riquelme than Mourinho. MVG is brilliant defensively but his distribution is as bad as Ramires' at the moment.

Lampard's replacement should be Oscar in my opinion. Not only is it the best way of getting Mata into the team but he doesn't lack a single thing to perform the role apart from physique but he's light years ahead of Lampard in terms of defending. Ribery was having his way Schurrle and Ivanovic all night, Oscar moves to his flank and owns him on 3 separate occasions in 1 v 1 situations.

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble a bit now so who else agrees with me?

Mikel/MVG and Oscar paired starting at Everton away? Mou likes his favourites though so it might never happen.

Your statement about our slow passing in midfield and then your suggestion to include Mikel at Everton who is the slowest in world football at moving the ball is hard to quantify?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

For me, Ramires is currently our best CM. Closest thing we currently have to world class. In his natural box-to-box role, that is. His pace and stamina are incredible, his bursts from midfield can upset any defense and his delivery at top speed is out out of this world. In the holding role that he's been playing so far however, he's very average. Good enough against the likes of Hull but not nearly against United or Bayern.

Lampard is still a match winner. His movement and runs into the box are better than any striker we currently have, but the problem is that he doesn't have the stamina to play box-to-box anymore and his defensive contribution is almost non-existent. At his age, I would have liked to see him play as the most advanced CM in a 4-3-3, but with the likes of KDB and Oscar, I find that unlikely to happen. In the pivot, he can get by passes way too easily. But I think he can still be a massive asset against smaller teams who sit deep where he won't have much defensive responsibilities and can instead focus on his offensive contribution.

MVG looks like an excellent prospect. The defensive side to his game is especially impressive (even if a bit too aggressive at times). But he's far from the finished article. His passing and movement still need a bit of work from what I saw. I'd love for him to get some starts, but I expect him to make more appearances off the bench. He can use all the experience he can get and he'll only get better from here on.

Mikel is currently our only genuine holding midfielder. He adds stability to the team and gives Ramires the freedom to go forward while plugging the gap between midfield and defense. His passing is incredibly accurate and his ball retention skills are by far the best in our team which gives the back four an outlet to get the ball to instead of having to play a lot of long balls. I don't think he can play the role he does with Nigeria here in the PL where the tempo is a lot faster and he won't get as much time and space on the ball.

Essien, I think, is a good squad player. He obviously doesn't have the physical attributes that he once thrived on, but he can still do a decent job. I think we will benefit from his versatility and experience this season.

So, to sum up, I think Ramires-Mikel is our best CM pairing just like it was last season. It is defensively solid, leaves very few gaps and offers smooth and calm distribution of the ball while playing to the strengths of both Mikel and Ramires who, imo, our best two CMs.

[TrippingStep 336]

I still don't understand how we have not replaced Makele Ballack in our midfield.

We have no midfielders as good (far from it) in our squad to play as the two deeper midfielders.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I still don't understand how we have not replaced Makele Ballack in our midfield.

We have no midfielders as good (far from it) in our squad to play as the two deeper midfielders.

You can't simply replace Michael Ballack!

[TrippingStep 336]

You can't simply replace Michael Ballack!

Ok but for a team with a status like us, it's weird to not see very good deep midfielders that could compete with other midfielders from top team.

No other top team would want our deeper midfielders.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Lamps' passing has been horrid this season. Add that to Ramires and you have a pivot that fuck up more passes than they complete - obviously short sideways passes will boost % so fuck any stats someone will inevitably reply with

Anyway, Rambo and MVG looked good in preseason, time to give it a try and see how they do.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Ok but for a team with a status like us, it's weird to not see very good deep midfielders that could compete with other midfielders from top team.

No other top team would want our deeper midfielders.

Are you talking about the EPL? Because, for me, Ramires would walk into the starting line-up in any team in the PL.

[TrippingStep 336]

Are you talking about the EPL? Because, for me, Ramires would walk into the starting line-up in any team in the PL.

No, I talk of top european teams.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

No, I talk of top european teams.

if you mean Bayern, Madrid and Barca, we're simply not in the same level as them in terms of quality of players, atm and not just at CM, nor is any other team in Europe atm, unfortunately.

[Kojo 4,676]

Lampard-Ramires

John Obi Mikel can't cover much space, he is only good for games we are playing in our own half.

MVG is young and inexperienced, it would be stupid to say he's our best midfielder.

Essien is not the player he was 3 years ago, good backup player but not the best for our midfield.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I don't want Oscar sitting in the CM position. I strongly believe he's a much better number 10 than anyone else in our squad and I really wish he'd get a decent run of games to show that. His intellect, awareness and footwork is impressive for someone who looks so nervous every time I see him play

He's shown with Brazil that he can operate behind the strikers and give MotM winning displays.

[Barbara 15,149]

I would need to see Oscar playing in the pivot a few matches in a row to be convinced we should move him from a position he's been killing and giving us so much both defensively and offensively which leads me choose to keep him exactly where he is.

If we want to improve our CM we should sign a world class CM, not turn one of our best CAM into a CM. It's a simple equation imo.

David Luiz even as a CB will improve our transition and distribution imo and make up for partially for our CM distribution - which is still our biggest problem in the pivot. Luiz often pass the ball to our AM (wingers and central) with medium and long passes. And of course Mourinho stubbornness using Lamps game in, game out. The good news about Lamps though is sooner rather than later he'll pick a knock because he physically can't play twice a week for too long. Blessing in disguise I'd say (his physicality, not Mou's stubbornness)

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Regarding Oscar, I think he can play as the most advanced CM in a 4-3-3 (which isn't much different than the number 10 role in a 4-2-3-1) but not in the pivot. Oscar for me is perfect for the number 10 role. He likes to drop deep to receive the ball, he has an excellent eye for a pass and he's an absolute workhorse. He chases the ball well and harasses the opposition holding midfielder/play maker and can drop to help out the pivot as well. But the pivot is a completely different role. He won't be able to run with the ball, he won't be able to play around the box where he's at his creative best so you would be restricting his best assets. Defensively in the pivot, he will need to be a bit stronger to fight off opposition. He will also need to stay disciplined, mark areas instead of players, and block channels and passing angles instead of trying to nick the ball like he currently does. I don't think he can do that.

I think this "urge" to play Oscar in the pivot comes because everyone is trying to fit all the attacking players we have into one formation, but you have to realize that that won't happen.

David Luiz will improve our transition and distribution imo and make up for partially for our CM distribution - which is still our biggest problem in the pivot.

Luiz provides much better distribution from CB. At CM he looses the ball way too much because he has much less time and space on the ball. As a CM, his distribution is at best average but as a CB his ball distribution is absolutely world-class.

[Barbara 15,149]

Luiz provides much better distribution from CB. At CM he looses the ball way too much because he has much less time and space on the ball. As a CM, his distribution is at best average but as a CB his ball distribution is absolutely world-class.

I never meant for him to move to the CM position. I meant as a CB he'll make up for the poor distribution from our CM. I edited my post to make it clear, as you made me see that maybe I was implying I want him playing as a CM - which I don't.