Willian

[milka 2,382]

 

[Atomiswave 5,803]

17 hours ago, Vesper said:

We should have sold him for the £65m back in summer 2018. massive cock-up, but I am not going to kick him in the batty on the way out the door. I so hope he doesn't fuck us up v Arse.

He was not a bad player at all, and I think many of his contributions were not appreciated nearly enough. That said, he was a poison pill at times and I am enraged he faked injury to avoid playing in the FA Cup final v those goona cunts.

That game, The Taylor Final, is added to my 10 most bitter disappoints ever at Chels in terms of Roman era-games. I REALLLLLLLLLY hate losing trophy games. Hate it!!!! Not acceptable. Do not care if it is EL or CL or a CS, FWCC or or Super Cup, League Cup or FA Cup, it fucking pisses me off.

He faked an injury to avoid playing them? Is that true?

[Vesper 22,553]

26 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

He faked an injury to avoid playing them? Is that true?

It looks really suspicious. I have no concrete proof, but I truly think he did. He is all about the payday and look at what happened to Pedro. I think he downed tools to avoid the chance.

I hope my intuition is wrong.

[Jype 5,845]

2 hours ago, BXL70 said:

One of our best players for years.

But still never been good enough. Just because he was better than some of the other shit we've had in RW doesn't mean he was worth keeping around. Let's be fair, if the competition for him over the years was players like Pedro, Moses, Kenedy, Cuadrado, Remy, Schürrle and a 2014-Salah the bar wasn't exactly set very high for Willian to stand out.

Pedro and Willian were both decent workhorse players but ultimately neither of them were ever really good enough. It's no wonder that both of them enjoyed the best football of their Chelsea careers under Conte when high work rate and being good on the counter-attack were one of the most important qualities in a player. But stick them in a team that dominates possession and needs their attacking players to often create something out of nothing and they both look shit.

If we'd just had a Hazard-level player on the right wing instead of Willian/Pedro I'm sure the team would've been much, much more successful in the last 7 years. Don't get me wrong, two league titles and a few cups is by no means a bad record but it could have been a lot better.

[Vesper 22,553]

47 minutes ago, Jype said:

But still never been good enough. Just because he was better than some of the other shit we've had in RW doesn't mean he was worth keeping around. Let's be fair, if the competition for him over the years was players like Pedro, Moses, Kenedy, Cuadrado, Remy, Schürrle and a 2014-Salah the bar wasn't exactly set very high for Willian to stand out.

Pedro and Willian were both decent workhorse players but ultimately neither of them were ever really good enough. It's no wonder that both of them enjoyed the best football of their Chelsea careers under Conte when high work rate and being good on the counter-attack were one of the most important qualities in a player. But stick them in a team that dominates possession and needs their attacking players to often create something out of nothing and they both look shit.

If we'd just had a Hazard-level player on the right wing instead of Willian/Pedro I'm sure the team would've been much, much more successful in the last 7 years. Don't get me wrong, two league titles and a few cups is by no means a bad record but it could have been a lot better.

We had one in Salah if we have just been patient. In summer 2013 (when we bought Willian) there was only one remotely Hazard level RWer available. And Real took him (Bale). Sterling was 18yo. Angel di Maria was a bust at Manure until he became WC at PSG, he was not available in 2013 anyway.

It was down to 2 ways. Fight the biggest club on the planet for a Spuds player, or we could have been patient with Salah. Robben was never going to come back. Bernardo Silva was a teen, Mahrez a complete unknown.

If I am missing a player I am more than open to suggestions. Great RWers are rare as fuck. It is what makes Messi stand out even more. Sterling is actually better on the left IMHO but is still a WC player on the right. 

[Jype 5,845]

4 minutes ago, Vesper said:

We had one in Salah if we have just been patient. In summer 2013 (when we bought Willian) there was only one remotely Hazard level RWer available. And Real took him (Bale). Sterling was 18yo. Angel di Maria was a bust at Manure until he became WC at PSG, he was not available in 2013 anyway.

It was down to 2 ways. Fight the biggest club on the planet for a Spuds player, or we could have been patient with Salah. Robben was never going to come back. Bernardo Silva was a teen, Mahrez a complete unknown.

If I am missing a player I am more than open to suggestions. Great RWers are rare as fuck. It is what makes Messi stand out even more. Sterling is actually better on the left IMHO but is still a WC player on the right. 

I didn't exactly mean signing a better winger in 2013 instead of Willian (although at the time I remember not wanting him at all because of KDB). What I meant was that the club could have maybe tried to get an improvement at RW somewhere along the way when it became clear that Willian's level was not world class and that he was very unlikely to improve either.

So maybe having a better option for the full 7 years was not realistic but just from the ones you mentioned Mahrez would've been easily available anytime from 2016 to 2018 and he'd have been a big improvement. Over the years there have been others too, but the club decided to trust Willian and since Pedro joined there was never any intention of looking for an improvement.

[NikkiCFC 6,084]

1 hour ago, Jype said:

Pedro and Willian were both decent workhorse players but ultimately neither of them were ever really good enough. It's no wonder that both of them enjoyed the best football of their Chelsea careers under Conte when high work rate and being good on the counter-attack were one of the most important qualities in a player. But stick them in a team that dominates possession and needs their attacking players to often create something out of nothing and they both look shit.

Willian yes but Pedro was great in Barca offensive system.

[Jype 5,845]

3 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Willian yes but Pedro was great in Barca offensive system.

Maybe, but Pedro was never the one to create the chances though. They had Xavi, Iniesta and Messi for that. Say what you say, but even in 2009-2015 Barcelona Pedro was the workhorse. Which is not to say he was a bad player by any means, but only that he's not a very creative player.

[killer1257 3,255]

Maybe, but Pedro was never the one to create the chances though. They had Xavi, Iniesta and Messi for that. Say what you say, but even in 2009-2015 Barcelona Pedro was the workhorse. Which is not to say he was a bad player by any means, but only that he's not a very creative player.

He was perfect for the barcelona system because he was so direct and effective, while Iniesta and Xavi are not direct and are always looking for the next pass. That is why Pedro was so amazing. Amazing finisher with both foot

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[Special Juan 26,068]

He is Arsenal's problem, we have so many better players than him he won't be missed.

[Atomiswave 5,803]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

It looks really suspicious. I have no concrete proof, but I truly think he did. He is all about the payday and look at what happened to Pedro. I think he downed tools to avoid the chance.

I hope my intuition is wrong.

Yeah you can never know can you, if he did such a thing then he must have had FL's blessings. I wish him the best but not all the best of course now that he is a gooner.

[Vesper 22,553]

57 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

He was perfect for the barcelona system because he was so direct and effective, while Iniesta and Xavi are not direct and are always looking for the next pass. That is why Pedro was so amazing. Amazing finisher with both foot

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[shrenshah 135]

Never liked him
But will be missed

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[NikkiCFC 6,084]

35 minutes ago, shrenshah said:

Never liked him
But will be missed

After a couple of games with Ziyech you will only ask why did we have to suffer for so many years?

Ziyech is the kind of guy who gives you goal or assist every game and a half on average. And this is exactly what we need from our wingers.

[Jype 5,845]

4 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

After a couple of games with Ziyech you will only ask why did we have to suffer for so many years?

Ziyech is the kind of guy who gives you goal or assist every game and a half on average. And this is exactly what we need from our wingers.

I agree. But for now there's no way to know for sure how well Ziyech settles in right away from the start, or even at all. For me that was the only argument in favor of keeping Willian but to give him a 3 year contract on big wages would've been very counterproductive in the long-term.

Had Willian stayed he'd have been the safe 6.5/10 option but if Ziyech settles in quickly and plays at his best level he'll already be a big improvement, not to mention that betting on CHO's development has big potential too.

[Vincent 392]

8 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

After a couple of games with Ziyech you will only ask why did we have to suffer for so many years?

Ziyech is the kind of guy who gives you goal or assist every game and a half on average. And this is exactly what we need from our wingers.

I find it remarkable how the big majority of the people here think Ziyech is going to succeed at Chelsea so easily. I think he will have big problems adapting to the Premier League, although i obviously hope he does well. I've seen him so many times and am simply not convinced and yes, he did very well in the Champions League. But let's be clear, how many games have you seen him in the Champions League? We can say we're lucky that we've signed him and the competition has been asleep, but i highly doubt that. 

[Pizy 15,220]

20 minutes ago, Vincent said:

I find it remarkable how the big majority of the people here think Ziyech is going to succeed at Chelsea so easily. I think he will have big problems adapting to the Premier League, although i obviously hope he does well. I've seen him so many times and am simply not convinced and yes, he did very well in the Champions League. But let's be clear, how many games have you seen him in the Champions League? We can say we're lucky that we've signed him and the competition has been asleep, but i highly doubt that. 

I mean, he was brilliant against us, Spuds, Real Madrid, Juventus and others. I don't think he'll struggle against mediocre English sides. If anything, I expect Ziyech to be even better here since he will be playing with better teammates. 

Even if he isn't scoring a lot his passing ability is light years better than Willian's is so he should be much more influential in our attack.

[Jas 43,118]

2 minutes ago, Pizy said:

I mean, he was brilliant against us, Spuds, Real Madrid, Juventus and others. I don't think he'll struggle against mediocre English sides. If anything, I expect Ziyech to be even better here since he will be playing with better teammates. 

Even if he isn't scoring a lot his passing ability is light years better than Willian's is so he should be much more influential in our attack.

Think the question will be whether he can handle the physicality and intensity of the Premier League. The quality of the Champions League may be higher but some other aspects of it are different from the Premier League. If he can handle it, then his quality will shine through - e.g. Pulisic this season. 

[BXL70 391]

18 hours ago, Special Juan said:

He is Arsenal's problem, we have so many better players than him he won't be missed.

 

Who are these "so many better players than him we have"? CHO who is 19 and yet everything to prove? Ziyech, who hasn't yet played a single match in PL? 

[Vincent 392]

2 minutes ago, Pizy said:

I mean, he was brilliant against us, Spuds, Real Madrid, Juventus and others. I don't think he'll struggle against mediocre English sides. If anything, I expect Ziyech to be even better here since he will be playing with better teammates. 

Even if he isn't scoring a lot his passing ability is light years better than Willian's is so he should be much more influential in our attack.

There is something to say for the better teammates, on the other hand Ajax was in a flow that i've never seen Chelsea in. Plus for example, a striker at a topclub has less space upfront than a striker at Aston Villa. He's a very different player than Willian is, so i don't think its a fair comparison. Ziyech is more the type of player that needs space for a cross, in stead of using speed and tricks to get past defenders.