Willian

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 08/02/2015 at 15:37, LAM09 said:

I go by stats. His are awful!

Dennis Bergkamp netted on average once every four games as a forward for Arsenal, that stat says average forward, any one who saw him play knew different.

Im not saying Willian is on that level, just a bit of perspective.

[LAM09 6,879]

  On 08/02/2015 at 19:18, Tomo said:

Dennis Bergkamp netted on average once every four games as a forward for Arsenal, that stat says average forward, any one who saw him play knew different.

Im not saying Willian is on that level, just a bit of perspective.

How many assists did Bergkamp have?

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 08/02/2015 at 19:25, LAM09 said:

How many assists did Bergkamp have?

Don't know but strikers are mainly judged on goals no?

Infact he was lagging behind on both scores compared to Henry yet some people regarded the Dutch man as the better of the two.

[LAM09 6,879]

  On 08/02/2015 at 19:28, Tomo said:

Don't know but strikers are mainly judged on goals no?

Infact he was lagging behind on both scores compared to Henry yet some people regarded the Dutch man as the better of the two.

He was more of a SS than CF in my book.

Either way, he offered something attacking wise, which Willian doesn't. Not sure why people are blind to that the majority of time.

[WNDS 502]

  On 08/02/2015 at 14:44, LAM09 said:

I was referring to his technical ability. He had several shots yesterday without hitting the target.

The less said about Oscar the better.

Willian is surely one of our top three players (along with Hazard and Fabregas) when it comes down to raw technical ability. I fail to see how shooting off-target indicates otherwise. Yes, shooting does involve it's own form of technique, but it's technique that is pretty much unrelated to a player's ability to keep a ball under control in difficult situations; Iniesta, Xavi, Hazard, Ribery, Arda Turan etc. are all players with tons of raw technique and all of them possess average shooting ability.

[LAM09 6,879]

  On 08/02/2015 at 21:56, WNDS said:

Willian is surely one of our top three players (along with Hazard and Fabregas) when it comes down to raw technical ability. I fail to see how shooting off-target indicates otherwise. Yes, shooting does involve it's own form of technique, but it's technique that is pretty much unrelated to a player's ability to keep a ball under control in difficult situations; Iniesta, Xavi, Hazard, Ribery, Arda Turan etc. are all players with tons of raw technique and all of them possess average shooting ability.

They assist on a regular basis. You have to do one or the other more often than not. He doesn't do either.

I'm not sure why some people fail to realise that. The AMF position should be Cesc's, and that's that. If we do get a quality CM (Pogba) in the summer, he'll either have to do better than Juan, or get used to the bench.

[WNDS 502]

  On 08/02/2015 at 22:15, LAM09 said:

They assist on a regular basis. You have to do one or the other more often than not. He doesn't do either.

I'm not sure why some people fail to realise that. The AMF position should be Cesc's, and that's that. If we do get a quality CM (Pogba) in the summer, he'll either have to do better than Juan, or get used to the bench.

You only have to look through pages and pages (and pages) of this thread to see that almost everyone acknowledges that Willian's productivity is below-par. Your past few posts have read as if you are using Willian's (undeniable) lack of productivity as proof of his supposed lack of technique; I was merely taking issue with your assertion that Willian's technique isn't good enough.

I'm also unsure if I agree with your view that Fabregas should play in the CAM role for us. With the way Mourinho currently has the team set up, the 'CAM' is actually much closer to being a box-to-box player than a primary playmaker. In addition to this, the CAM is charged with leading the press, something that Fabregas is not capable of doing effectively (he's too easily bypassed).

With the acquisition of Cuadrado, Willian currently appears to be a good candidate for the CAM/box-to-box role because of the tactical flexibility he could bring to the team. He is capable of pressing effectively, he has the pace both to recover position when the press is bypassed and to spring us forward on the counter-attack from deep positions, he is better in possession than Oscar is (due to his superior levels of technique), and he is also capable of switching positions with both Hazard and Cuadrado throughout the game as all three of them can play across the AM positions (unlike Oscar).

Yes, it's true that if we get Pogba then the midfield situation changes, but he's going to be (extremely) expensive if we DO get him, and at this moment in time we DON'T have him. We are still in the running for three trophies this season, and there appears to be a good chance of us winning two of them; we might as well focus most of our speculation regarding line-ups/formations/player roles etc. upon the squad of players that are actually at the club's disposal (for now).

[Jase 43,479]

  On 08/02/2015 at 15:21, JDY said:

He will never be fully appreciated for doing the simplest things (which for some players can be the hardest): just being reliable in possession, and having the ability to keep the ball under pressure. He plays a great supporting role for the better players like Hazard. A bit like Nasri does at City, struggles when he needs to take authority and make the difference, but his ball retention and ability to link play will be undervalued because of that.

I think people do appreciate that but those attributes can only take one so far. Willian is an attacking player after all and as long as he doesn't produce the goals and assists on a more regular basis, he's gonna be hammered quite a bit here.

[LAM09 6,879]

  On 08/02/2015 at 23:48, WNDS said:

You only have to look through pages and pages (and pages) of this thread to see that almost everyone acknowledges that Willian's productivity is below-par. Your past few posts have read as if you are using Willian's (undeniable) lack of productivity as proof of his supposed lack of technique; I was merely taking issue with your assertion that Willian's technique isn't good enough.

I'm also unsure if I agree with your view that Fabregas should play in the CAM role for us. With the way Mourinho currently has the team set up, the 'CAM' is actually much closer to being a box-to-box player than a primary playmaker. In addition to this, the CAM is charged with leading the press, something that Fabregas is not capable of doing effectively (he's too easily bypassed).

With the acquisition of Cuadrado, Willian currently appears to be a good candidate for the CAM/box-to-box role because of the tactical flexibility he could bring to the team. He is capable of pressing effectively, he has the pace both to recover position when the press is bypassed and to spring us forward on the counter-attack from deep positions, he is better in possession than Oscar is (due to his superior levels of technique), and he is also capable of switching positions with both Hazard and Cuadrado throughout the game as all three of them can play across the AM positions (unlike Oscar).

Yes, it's true that if we get Pogba then the midfield situation changes, but he's going to be (extremely) expensive if we DO get him, and at this moment in time we DON'T have him. We are still in the running for three trophies this season, and there appears to be a good chance of us winning two of them; we might as well focus most of our speculation regarding line-ups/formations/player roles etc. upon the squad of players that are actually at the club's disposal (for now).

My opinion of him will not change until he delivers. I personally wouldn't like him to play as our AMF, as I can see him being more wasteful than he already is. Work rate can only take you so far at this level of football.

[LAB 1,030]

Meanwhile... no one here wants to talk about Willi. Take a break from Oscar's page already!

Do you think Juan's arrival clicked Willian lately or it's just random?

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Done well recently all of a sudden

-Scoring opener vs Watford

-Setting up opener vs Newcastle with his quick/short corner

-Pivotal in setting up the only two goals against Swansea that werent basically Swan OG's, whilst he was on the pitch. Including an amazing solo-run and curving throughball for the 4th.

-Assisted game winner vs Liverpool

-MOTM, atleast in my mind, vs Aston Villa with an assist for the opener

Hope he keeps this up.

[lionsden 4,689]

  On 10/02/2015 at 14:15, kellzfresh said:

Done well recently all of a sudden

-Scoring opener vs Watford

-Setting up opener vs Newcastle with his quick/short corner

-Pivotal in setting up the only two goals against Swansea that werent basically Swan OG's, whilst he was on the pitch. Including an amazing solo-run and curving throughball for the 4th.

-Assisted game winner vs Liverpool

-MOTM, atleast in my mind, vs Aston Villa with an assist for the opener

Hope he keeps this up.

It would be a shame if he loses his place to Cuadrado because I believe he's an attacking midfielder being played out of position on the wing. Him and Oscar should fight it out for the starting spot in the middle.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

  On 10/02/2015 at 19:29, lionsden said:

It would be a shame if he loses his place to Cuadrado because I believe he's an attacking midfielder being played out of position on the wing. Him and Oscar should fight it out for the starting spot in the middle.

Yea most of the good plays actually came when he moved centrally during the match.

I'll love to see him play centrally during the big games because he's better at holding balls under pressure from better defenders and midfielders in big teams than oscar.

But oscar still gets the smaller games due to creativity.

[Jase 43,479]

  On 10/02/2015 at 20:32, kellzfresh said:

Yea most of the good plays actually came when he moved centrally during the match.

I'll love to see him play centrally during the big games because he's better at holding balls under pressure from better defenders and midfielders in big teams than oscar.

But oscar still gets the smaller games due to creativity.

People should really stop putting Willian and/or Oscar in the same sentence with the word 'creativity'...

[zolayes 14,489]

Willian is the BEST ball winner in the PL and Oscar isnt far behind

[Madmax 9,219]

  On 10/02/2015 at 22:31, zolayes said:

Willian is the BEST ball winner in the PL and Oscar isnt far behind

Shame that's not what they're actually there for.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

  On 10/02/2015 at 20:37, Jason said:

People should really stop putting Willian and/or Oscar in the same sentence with the word 'creativity'...

What I meant to say is oscar can create better than Willian. Maybe if willian changes to the middle he'll be better. We know they're not silva/Mata in that category

[Jase 43,479]

  On 11/02/2015 at 08:02, kellzfresh said:

What I meant to say is oscar can create better than Willian. Maybe if willian changes to the middle he'll be better. We know they're not silva/Mata in that category

If Willian can't even create anything meaningful out wide on a consistent basis, then he definitely isn't going to turn into some creative machine in the No.10 position.