Closed Man United v Chelsea

[JayC 171]

Nice post mate. Agree with you on some and disagree on others. I agree DDG is improving but I would have that at 1-1. Even I think Cech is the better keeper, DDG proved last season in a few games against us of the quality he has and he stopped us winning 2 games due to quality saves, Is Rafael fit because you have Smalling listed as a starter? Anyway not sure about the RB are but if Rafael is fit maybe a bit of an advantage. I, unlike others am a big fan of Ivanovic. The CB I have at a tie, hard one.

Even Evra has a lot of critics, I believe he is underrated but when I see him play he is a very consistent performer. I am not Cole's biggest fan because I feel he can be quite fragile and is not that good going forward as he used to be. Evra on the other hand can make defensive mistakes but he still performs good IMO and is very good going forward, scored quite a few last season. I say Evra is ahead of Cole, even some might not agree.

The thing about Valencia is he is not exactly a firm fans favourite but he plays very well most times he plays against us and gives Cole a torrid time because of his power and pace and this is why I hate seeing him line up against us which I am sure he will do again. I do rate Cleverley but he is not better than Ramires, but he is improving. It will be a good game hopefully and I think the team that has most control of midfield will win the game. Like most times we play you, I reckon you will start of better then we will find our way back into the game. Can go anyway but hopefully we win;)

Rafael is a doubt - it was a hamstring so I don't think we'll risk him to be honest.

Yeah agree about Evra. His defending can let him down sometimes. Although he actually stamped a lot of it out last season. He was looking like needing replaced two seasons ago, the way he was headed. I don't know what has happened, it's like he's been given a second wind. He's looking almost as good as Baines recently (including last season) I think Buttner had something to do with it - well as maybe realising his career is coming to an end, and is playing at like 100%. Whatever it is I'm loving it - every time he's off down that wing I'm actually excited, and he's a left-back. The proof is there to see, he's a good player. I hope we don't waste money on Baines.

I'm just glad to see Toni give up that #7 shirt. It was too big for him, and was weighing him down. Weird that a shirt can do that, but I honestly think it was. He's a very simplistic player, and not the type that can be world-class, and he never will be. He's solid at what he does, and that's beating a man and rifling a cross in for strikers. I'm not going to lie though - I'd much prefer Nani on the right-wing. Since when Val is doubled up on, he becomes useless, as his invention is low, and link up play pretty bad...

But yeah, hoping for a good game. I think it's important we don't let a Mourinho team get anything early on, because then they become incredibly difficult to do anything against. He knows how to lock a game down when he's in control. An early goal for us, will force you to come at us though which is what I think you'll look for too. However, I think we will both be cagey - with neither really wanting to go all out for a goal in case of paying a high price on the break.

Not long 'til we find out.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Not sure whats more entertaining...

Bushman vs Stats or Special Juan vs Rmpr.

Anyway...

I think this is United vs Chelsea or have i entered the wrong thread.

[bushman 2,043]

Not sure whats more entertaining...

Bushman vs Stats or Special Juan vs Rmpr.

Anyway...

I think this is United vs Chelsea or have i entered the wrong thread.

You are right. Since we all should talk about Chelsea vs manures & I certainly admire some of these postings, knowledge about Chelsea from the opposition, let´s keep it rolling. I also enjoy some of these Chelsea fans in disguise, I must say.

[Kezza 1,965]

We all know how utd are gonna play..bomb down the wings and cross to Rvp. Therefore I'm in two minds of who should start, Azpi to deal with the pace or iva just for his pure presence.

Terry to start, he made Benteke his bitch.

Lukaku tore Utd a new arsehole on fergies last game, hope he gets a chance to do the same on Moyes' first game at home

[Barbara 15,149]

We all know how utd are gonna play..bomb down the wings and cross to rvp. Therefore I'm in two minds of who should start, azpi to deal with the pace or iva just cor his pure presents.

Terry to start, he made Benteke his bitch.

lukaku tore utd a new arsehole on fergies last game, hope he gets a chance to do the same on moyes' first game at home

that would be coming full circle :heart:

[Richie 0]

Is there a pub chelsea use for away games at Utd?

[Jype 6,398]

Lets do a basic sum up out of interest. I'll try and stick to the same position played for comparisons.

(Assuming 100% squad availibility)

GK; De Gea vs Cech 1-0 (Keeper of the season - it's close however)

RB; Rafael vs Ivanovic 1-0 (Getting close to the complete RB, and has been more impressive lately - and Iva is Out Of Position for me)

CB; Vidic vs Luiz 0-1 (This would be Vidic all day if it wasn't for recent injuries)

CB; Rio vs Terry 1-0 (Team of the year Rio....oh yeah)

LB; Evra vs Cole 1-1 (I'm being kind to Cole here after Evra's season - and you know it)

CDM; Carrick vs Mikel/De Bruyne (No point) 1-0

LCM/LF/CAM; Kagawa vs Hazard 0-1 (Hazard with the game time to prove himself)

CAM/SS; Rooney vs Oscar 1-0 (Last seasons contribution speaks for it's self)

CM; Cleverley vs Ramires 1-1 (Both are just good squad players)

RM; Valencia vs Mata 0-1 (Best comparison, since you generally don't use convential wingers)

CF; Welbeck vs Torres 1-1 (Welbeck is in form but it's up in the air)

ST; v.Persie vs Lukaku 1-0 (Why bother)

SUBS;

Nani vs Schurllee 1-1 (Nani is clearly better but his form is dreadful - hence the draw)

Hernandez vs Ba 1-0 (More goals - way more important key goals)

Anderson vs Lampard 0-1 (Anderson will be eating something somewhere - he won't care)

Smalling vs Cahill 1-1 (Whilst Smalling doesn't get that many run outs, he's certainly no worse than Cahill)

Zaha vs Moses - 1-0 (Zaha shown more in a couple of weeks than Moses in six months)

SCORE: United #13. Chelsea #9.

A decent and mostly fair comparison but I've got a few issues with it. First of all, you have 12 players in the starting lineup.

Remove Welbeck/Torres and it's 4-2-3-1 for both teams.

On the goalkeepers I think it's unfair to give that one to De Gea outright. He's a wondeful shot stopper and all that but he still has some weaknesses like dealing with crosses and other physical situations. I'm not saying he hasn't improved in that department but that doesn't take away the fact the flaws still exist. Cech is in my opinion a more complete keeper with no particular weaknesses and while is reflexes aren't as fast as De Gea's, his experience alone should tie this one to 1-1.

Then the RBs. Rafael may be in better form than Brana at the moment and seems to be developing well too but I would still consider Azpilicueta our main right-back and his form last season was not that far behind Rafael's. Also, if I'm not mistaken Rafa is still out for our match so shouldn't you be comparing our right-backs to Smalling or Jones? Smalling/Jones at RB against Azpilicueta is a point for Chelsea but otherwise Rafael edges it narrowly.

Agree on the central defense but I'm not so kind on Cole and for me this one is 1-0 for Evra.

As for the midfielders, why on earth would you compare Carrick and De Bruyne? That makes absolutely no sense because in his career De Bruyne has played what, maybe 20 minutes worth of pre-season in the position Carrick plays in. Carrick is ahead of Mikel for sure but let's save KdB for some other comparison, maybe the one against Zaha which De Bruyne wins every day of the week after his brilliant season in one of the best leagues in the world.

Ramires is much better than Tom Cleverley in my opinion and he is usually at his best in big games unlike Cleverley who is still very much unproven with the big boys but I respect your opinion and I can see why people rate Cleverley too.

Is Rooney available for you? If not, replace him with Welbeck and that's a clear win for Oscar.

Rest are fine by me so for the starting XI's the scores are pretty even with my reviews and both teams can edge it depending on who plays at RB and ACM. With Rafael and Rooney your lot edges it 7-5 but for Monday's match I'm not convinced either of them will play so without them the score is 7-5 to us. Guess we should just agree that it's pretty close no matter what, eh?

For the rest:

Schwarzer vs Lindegaard 1-1

Cahill vs Smalling 1-1

Ivanovic vs Jones 1-1

Bertrand - Fabio/Büttner 1-1

Lampard - Anderson 1-0

Essien - Jones 1-1 (lol had to use Jones again, you guys really don't have enough CMs)

van Ginkel - Giggs at CM 1-0

Schürrle - Nani 1-1

De Bruyne - Zaha 1-0

Moses - Young 0-1

Torres - Hernandez 0-1

Ba - Welbeck 1-1

For the starting lineups the scores would have been similar last year too and it's really no surprise Chelsea have enjoyed so much success in the cup competitions in reent times. The first eleven has been excellent all along but overall the squad has not been good enough to challenge you or City in the long run. However, now our squad has improved massively over the summer with recalling the Belgian loanees and adding good players like Schürrle, van Ginkel and Schwarzer. So far the only addition to your squad has been Zaha but with the potential departure of Wayne Rooney one can't with a good conscience say your team has improved from last season. Outside of the first eleven I'd say we have the advantage over United and in a long season that can have a huge impact on the title race.

The last and most important one comparison of them all:

Mourinho - Moyes 1-0

[The_Flash 1,144]

My prediction;

Manchester United (2) vs (1) Chelsea

(v.Persie) (D.Welbeck) - - - (E.Hazard)

-------------------------------------------------

Probable team; 4-3-3/4-5-1

======================

De Gea

Smalling - Rio - Vida© - Evra

Carrick

Jones------Giggs

Valencia ------------------Welbeck

- v.Persie -

---------------------------------------------------

Don't expect to see an overly attacking team strategy for this game. We know your central-midfield is stronger than ours. Moyes will look to pack it a bit I thnk, so it isn't easy to keep the ball there. Or just limit Hazard and Mata's options, and space. Although possession isn't so crucial to be honest - as it worked allowing Swansea the ball and to pass it around until they advanced... then they were shut down. They're a good passing team and they had little joy. Moyes is defensively well organised. Still early days, but there are signs. We looked very solid last game. This is what we will see. A much better Manchester United defensively. We'll retain our forward players/play, and be harder to score past. Whilst Fergies' style was very exciting, it was always nail-biting stuff. I think Moyes will shake this off, and have us defend really well. He does seem to be applying the pressing as I hoped- but not overly, for our players legs.

This team is basically a 4-5-1 defending, with players that will work hard. Welbeck and Valencia drop back into the holes on the flanks when defending - equaling the 4-5-1. At the same time the team has so much pace down the wings. Perfect as Chelsea can be exploited at RB and LB in my opinion. Ivanovic never looks convincing but I'm pretty sure he'll play there since Mourniho said that's his place. Pretty sure of that anyway. Zaha could probably terrify Cole if he gets the chance....not to mention Nani. I don't think Chelsea have the fire-power to beat us. Furthermore, your central defense is weaker. Terry will have no answer to the pace. The depth of our bench would be pretty stupid for this game - Rooney, Kagawa, Nani, Hernandez, Zaha; Januzaj. That's not all of them, but you say you have a stronger team - looking at that bench, I'm not sure you do. We have Rafael out too, and are still able to put out a strong squad.

Lets do a basic sum up out of interest. I'll try and stick to the same position played for comparisons.

(Assuming 100% squad availibility)

GK; De Gea vs Cech 1-0 (Keeper of the season - it's close however)

RB; Rafael vs Ivanovic 1-0 (Getting close to the complete RB, and has been more impressive lately - and Iva is Out Of Position for me)

CB; Vidic vs Luiz 0-1 (This would be Vidic all day if it wasn't for recent injuries)

CB; Rio vs Terry 1-0 (Team of the year Rio....oh yeah)

LB; Evra vs Cole 1-1 (I'm being kind to Cole here after Evra's season - and you know it)

CDM; Carrick vs Mikel/De Bruyne (No point) 1-0

LCM/LF/CAM; Kagawa vs Hazard 0-1 (Hazard with the game time to prove himself)

CAM/SS; Rooney vs Oscar 1-0 (Last seasons contribution speaks for it's self)

CM; Cleverley vs Ramires 1-1 (Both are just good squad players)

RM; Valencia vs Mata 0-1 (Best comparison, since you generally don't use convential wingers)

CF; Welbeck vs Torres 1-1 (Welbeck is in form but it's up in the air)

ST; v.Persie vs Lukaku 1-0 (Why bother)

SUBS;

Nani vs Schurllee 1-1 (Nani is clearly better but his form is dreadful - hence the draw)

Hernandez vs Ba 1-0 (More goals - way more important key goals)

Anderson vs Lampard 0-1 (Anderson will be eating something somewhere - he won't care)

Smalling vs Cahill 1-1 (Whilst Smalling doesn't get that many run outs, he's certainly no worse than Cahill)

Zaha vs Moses - 1-0 (Zaha shown more in a couple of weeks than Moses in six months)

SCORE: United #13. Chelsea #9.

In my summation our squad is still better after no signings. Don't say I'm biased, those player scores are fair. I'm not going to say you couldn't make an argument somewhere but it's as fair as I can see. I think some of you vastly overrate your squad. You would fall apart without Mata and Hazard. We motor on with nobody with any world-class creativity from centre-attacking-midfield. We can easily replace any of our team members with the exception of Robin and not really be weakened. You cannot - and with those striking options I'd settle for third. Not even Jose Mourniho can make Fernando Torres play well. As for Demba Ba - we all know his priority was the money. Which leaves you Lukaku; excellent striker but needs to play every game to make the progress, and I don't know if he's going to get them games. Mourinho is desperate for some world-class attacking goal scorer. He's worried, and rightly so.

Anyway.... *The Champions* are about to send out an unstoppable warning - fear us; I predict a wake up call for you all. We are the champions, and we will show you why on Monday.

I cannot believe you said DeGea is better than Cech. I cant believe this ridiculous almost emperors new clothes syndrome. DeGea is the worst goalie to be a top club,i have seen in decades They are lucky they had RVP to compensate for all the goals David let in. He is absolutely terrible, he looks pertrified every time the ball is near him. It's embarrassing, ill never forget when he was awful and Utd lost on Fergie's birthday. He is a huge liability, Cech everyday of the week

[Vybz Kartel 1,613]

Lukaku and Mata have to start this one. Mata has scored in the last 3 league games vs united and Lukaku scored a hatrick last time he faced them

[JayC 171]

A decent and mostly fair comparison but I've got a few issues with it. First of all, you have 12 players in the starting lineup.

Remove Welbeck/Torres and it's 4-2-3-1 for both teams.

On the goalkeepers I think it's unfair to give that one to De Gea outright. He's a wondeful shot stopper and all that but he still has some weaknesses like dealing with crosses and other physical situations. I'm not saying he hasn't improved in that department but that doesn't take away the fact the flaws still exist. Cech is in my opinion a more complete keeper with no particular weaknesses and while is reflexes aren't as fast as De Gea's, his experience alone should tie this one to 1-1.

Then the RBs. Rafael may be in better form than Brana at the moment and seems to be developing well too but I would still consider Azpilicueta our main right-back and his form last season was not that far behind Rafael's. Also, if I'm not mistaken Rafa is still out for our match so shouldn't you be comparing our right-backs to Smalling or Jones? Smalling/Jones at RB against Azpilicueta is a point for Chelsea but otherwise Rafael edges it narrowly.

Agree on the central defense but I'm not so kind on Cole and for me this one is 1-0 for Evra.

As for the midfielders, why on earth would you compare Carrick and De Bruyne? That makes absolutely no sense because in his career De Bruyne has played what, maybe 20 minutes worth of pre-season in the position Carrick plays in. Carrick is ahead of Mikel for sure but let's save KdB for some other comparison, maybe the one against Zaha which De Bruyne wins every day of the week after his brilliant season in one of the best leagues in the world.

Ramires is much better than Tom Cleverley in my opinion and he is usually at his best in big games unlike Cleverley who is still very much unproven with the big boys but I respect your opinion and I can see why people rate Cleverley too.

Is Rooney available for you? If not, replace him with Welbeck and that's a clear win for Oscar.

Rest are fine by me so for the starting XI's the scores are pretty even with my reviews and both teams can edge it depending on who plays at RB and ACM. With Rafael and Rooney your lot edges it 7-5 but for Monday's match I'm not convinced either of them will play so without them the score is 7-5 to us. Guess we should just agree that it's pretty close no matter what, eh?

For the rest:

Schwarzer vs Lindegaard 1-1

Cahill vs Smalling 1-1

Ivanovic vs Jones 1-1

Bertrand - Fabio/Büttner 1-1

Lampard - Anderson 1-0

Essien - Jones 1-1 (lol had to use Jones again, you guys really don't have enough CMs)

van Ginkel - Giggs at CM 1-0

Schürrle - Nani 1-1

De Bruyne - Zaha 1-0

Moses - Young 0-1

Torres - Hernandez 0-1

Ba - Welbeck 1-1

For the starting lineups the scores would have been similar last year too and it's really no surprise Chelsea have enjoyed so much success in the cup competitions in reent times. The first eleven has been excellent all along but overall the squad has not been good enough to challenge you or City in the long run. However, now our squad has improved massively over the summer with recalling the Belgian loanees and adding good players like Schürrle, van Ginkel and Schwarzer. So far the only addition to your squad has been Zaha but with the potential departure of Wayne Rooney one can't with a good conscience say your team has improved from last season. Outside of the first eleven I'd say we have the advantage over United and in a long season that can have a huge impact on the title race.

The last and most important one comparison of them all:

Mourinho - Moyes 1-0

It wasn't meant to be an XI. Also if you want perfect write-up's - I want paid! I wrote that pretty quickly! But seriously it wasn't a team. It looks like it with subs, but I didnt even count how many players went in, since I just tried to match up all of our big players against each other....That's all. Comparisons were with full squad availability. Injury free. Yeah I got De Bruyne all wrong...... spank meh.

It's good to see people recognising Evra's talents though.

On Cech - I think I can agree to call it a draw then. Overall ability I really don't know mind. I've watched De Gea pull off some crazy diving saves, I don't think anybody else in the world is capable of. He actually flies...

[JayC 171]

I cannot believe you said DeGea is better than Cech. I cant believe this ridiculous almost emperors new clothes syndrome. DeGea is the worst goalie to be a top club,i have seen in decades They are lucky they had RVP to compensate for all the goals David let in. He is absolutely terrible, he looks pertrified every time the ball is near him. It's embarrassing, ill never forget when he was awful and Utd lost on Fergie's birthday. He is a huge liability, Cech everyday of the week

Don't forget your toolkit on the way out. You've been busy here.

[Barbara 15,149]

nice new avi JayC

and I really liked your posts in this thread. Now this is the Jay that was great since he started posted and who didn't get riled up

I'm going to finish my ManUtd opposition analysis after the match, then I'll PM it to you. Thanks for all your help

[borriske 330]

I cannot believe you said DeGea is better than Cech. I cant believe this ridiculous almost emperors new clothes syndrome. DeGea is the worst goalie to be a top club,i have seen in decades They are lucky they had RVP to compensate for all the goals David let in. He is absolutely terrible, he looks pertrified every time the ball is near him. It's embarrassing, ill never forget when he was awful and Utd lost on Fergie's birthday. He is a huge liability, Cech everyday of the week

Keep it real. De Gea was somewhat error prone due to problems with high balls, but he seems to have improved on that part. And his shot stopping has always been sublime. Him and Cech are indeed very close

[JayC 171]

nice new avi JayC

and I really liked your posts in this thread. Now this is the Jay that was great since he started posted and who didn't get riled up

I'm going to finish my ManUtd opposition analysis after the match, then I'll PM it to you. Thanks for all your help

I can see how you may have thought I was riled at some points, but I really wasn't. When you're being fed consistent head-scratching lies, or horrifically judged summations, it's a time where I question my time invested. I was frustrated, misunderstood, and being stalked by some crazy bushman....Flashbacks of Wolf Creek began to arise in my mind.... I must hide!

I'm simply a pirate now. My disguise will fool bushman.

On a serious note. No problem. Yeah I'd appreciate the read. Did you use much of what I gave you? Well I guess I'll find out soon enough.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

Cech
Azpi - Iva - Terry - Cole

Ramires - Essien

Mata - KdB - Hazard

Lukaku

please dear god, whatever happens, let Lukaku start!

[Hostedenis 556]

Cech

Azpi - Iva - Terry - Cole

Ramires - Essien

Mata - KdB - Hazard

Lukaku

please dear god, whatever happens, let Lukaku start!

Why would you play KdB central (when he's a great RW) and play mata as RW (when he sucks at RW)?

Switch them, put Iva as RB and Luiz/Cahil as CB for Azpi and I think you have a great line-up (probably not Luiz because he hasn't played lately)

[Mouri_Matic 560]

Shit this might be Mata's last appearance for us if Willian is signed. Rooney will be coming our way too.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

Why would you play KdB central (when he's a great RW) and play mata as RW (when he sucks at RW)?

Switch them, put Iva as RB and Luiz/Cahil as CB for Azpi and I think you have a great line-up (probably not Luiz because he hasn't played lately)

Rather have Azpi as RB for more speed there, iva as CB because i dont want Cahill to play that game. Obviousley luiz if he was fit.