Closed Real Madrid 3-1 Chelsea

[TrippingStep 336]

I don't know about Oscar. Brazil NT doesn't play what we would call possession style football and still Oscar performs brilliantly. More so than in a blue shirt. I think Hazard's speed would also come handy in a counter-attacking style. Mata... I have my doubts.

In the confederation cup, Oscar did quite good defensively even if he and the team was fouling quite hard when an opponent were going to ghost them.

But except one match, he didn't really stamp his authority on the game like he was doing in the olympics and other matches where he was brilliant as the conductor of the team.

Besides that, I may be a little biased as I'm not really a Mourinho fan. He did a great great job at Inter with two of my favorite players Zanetti and Cambiasso in the team. Inter players were the right players for the Mourinho philosophy.

I really didn't see his first year at Chelsea. His second year at Chelsea, Chelsea were solid but I wasn't really a fan of the way the team played. I remember seeing a lot of matches where Chelsea were sitting very deep, letting the other team crossing a lot. It worked but the english team were not really great at the offensive game, we were happy collecting the crosses with our very narrow defense and picking them on the counter.

With the pre-season game, I don't think there is a big change in how Jose wants his teams to play, nearly all our goals have come from a quick transition, not many great intricate passing and possession play even against poor teams.

As Barbara has said, we have much more depth in our squad than last year.

But I'm not sure we really have many Mourinho players.

[Barbara 15,149]

So a friendly game in USA=Champion league match? Good to know!

I am just glad people in the Chelsea's board don't hit the panic button as quickly as you have done!!

not that I agree with him - I don't because the comparison doesn't make sense as that team right there is the Real Madrid that will play in UCL and I dare anyone here say they played it like a friendly. Some were motivated to bite back on Mourinho, they played totally focused and except for the very end, they didn't stop pressing. So it was no friendly behavior from them and they didn't have technical and tactical issues last season (like us) that prevented them to do well in UCL and LL. They had locker room issues, political issues, relationship issues, but they were ready, they made a few capital mistakes that cost trophies, but they were ready as a squad. We never were, so we basically played the RM we could face in UCL in a few months, but they certainly didn't face the same Chelsea they might face later which is why their short preparation is less important than ours. 60% of their issues were fixed the moment Mourinho left. We on the other hand still had 100% of them when Rafael Benitez left - although I don't like Benitez.

BUT I do believe Lukaku is far from being ready to be the guy that will solve our issues in the attack like some here believe. He's not ready, and not only that, he's nowhere near to being ready. He has the same challenges Kevin, Ginkel and Schurrle have - except he has a small edge by having played in EPL last season. Why do I say this edge is small? Because there isn't half the pressure on our midfield (where all those players play) compared to our attack. If Schurrle doesn't deliver, there are 3-4 guys to deliver in his place. If Kevin doesn't deliver it's the same and even with Ginkel is the same because we do have some quality and experience in Essien, Lamps and even Mikel. So while the replacement might not be stellar few people are throwing fits because of AM or DM.

Now the attack has been our Achilles heel since Didier left. And that puts a lot of pressure on Lukaku. He's not one of the guys that could improve, he's the guy that HAS to improve the results if we put him in that position. So he will feel the pressure and he's also not ready technically either. He has plenty of potential (and limitations I believe will follow him through all his career, but he doesn't have to excel in everything about being a striker), potential that will be reached with hard work and minutes played... minutes, not whole matches in UCL being the guy the team and the fans count to have it done. It's utterly unfair to give him that mission and I think slightly delusional of us to think he can already step up and take that responsibility.

The effectiveness he showed playing in Asia compared to the matches he played in America is there for everyone who wants to see it. And why do you think is that? Why would it be different playing for EPL or UCL where we'll definitely play harder opposition compared to both Milan teams? So if he couldn't capitalize the (few) chances he had now, during friendlies where he had moderate pressure on him, why should we think he'll solve all our problems when the season starts? And trust me some fans believe we don't need Rooney because we have Lukaku (just go there and read both threads to see it for yourself). I don't want Rooney particularly, but I think we need another striker asap and if we don't have another one, imo Hazard, Mata, Moses, and Kevin de Bruyne will end up contributing to our improvement in the attack more than I think Lukaku will - and I meant that by scoring goals, not only assisting Torres and Ba.

So I understand your point and agree about the comparison, but I also think he shouldn't be rated so highly as I've seen people rating him here. I don't remember where you stand though - to be honest I don't remember where anyone stands - not even the Belgian members - all I remember is reading posts, but I don't remember who wrote them.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

Didn't watch the game but I'm glad the people that are overreacting don't manage the team. Anyone taking anything serious out of this game needs to check themselves.

Real played as if this was a proper competitive game as they had something to show/prove to Mourinho. We didn't take the game seriously. Simple.

Nothing serious to deduce from this game at all IMO.

It is just a wake up call that is all. Of course this game is meaning less, but from it we can see some of the problems and we can do something about it like striker department for example. It have always been well documented it needs fixing(signing a top class striker) but in the last few matches we haven't really been challenged well enough and so the problem temporarily fades away. Now we need to sign a striker again after it resurfaces.

Remember 10/11? At the start when everyone said we lacked creativity? We didn't care and looked what happened eventually, remember 11/12? When we were still lacking it and end up signing Mata and go on to win the double. Last season we barely won the Europa league because we met 2nd rate teams, if not it is just as bad as 10/11 season. So now we need to fix it.

[The Skipper 20,593]

It is just a wake up call that is all. Of course this game is meaning less, but from it we can see some of the problems and we can do something about it like striker department for example. It have always been well documented it needs fixing(signing a top class striker) but in the last few matches we haven't really been challenged well enough and so the problem temporarily fades away. Now we need to sign a striker again after it resurfaces.

Remember 10/11? At the start when everyone said we lacked creativity? We didn't care and looked what happened eventually, remember 11/12? When we were still lacking it and end up signing Mata and go on to win the double. Last season we barely won the Europa league because we met 2nd rate teams, if not it is just as bad as 10/11 season. So now we need to fix it.

Exactly but the result or game doesn't change my opinion on whether we needed a striker like Rooney or not at all. I've always maintained from the get go that if we get Rooney we'll stand a very strong chance in winning the PL but if not we'll still do pretty well but just not as good.

No need to panic whatsoever.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

Exactly but the result or game doesn't change my opinion on whether we needed a striker like Rooney or not at all. I've always maintained from the get go that if we get Rooney we'll stand a very strong chance in winning the PL but if not we'll still do pretty well but just not as good.

No need to panic whatsoever.

Then we got nothing to disagree about, I have also always said we need to sign someone like Rooney and I am using this match to back up my point. I couldn't careless about the result itself. But I think the striker issue need to be taken a little bit more seriously, we are downplaying it too much when it is a major problem.

[Spike 12,049]

Really in the long shot of things a loss here is brilliant. It brings the lads back down to earth and gives Jose further insight on what needs tinkering with.

[robdog 2,084]

One thing about this match that I haven't seen much about is the fact that Don Carlo might wanted to have some revenge against CFC. He was sacked in a tunnel after a match & I am sure he wasn't too pleased about this exit. Personally, I like Don Carlo & I wish him the best of luck. BTW, we still haven't lost to RM in a Real Competitive Match

[Ankit 3,176]

Oh you haven't seen panic yet, wait until the season starts and our strikers struggle then you will know what panic is. Actually last year was a pretty good example but it seems you haven't learn anything from it.

As one the guys pointed it out in the Rooney thread, despite our strikers being Torres and BA(just half season) last season, we were still the 2nd highest scoring team in the league. Now i am not saying we are all ready to take the league by storm but Rooney will be a sort of a luxury. If we get him, great nothing better but i do not think that he is the vital cog in our team. And i certainly don't want him at 35 million or more.

not that I agree with him - I don't because the comparison doesn't make sense as that team right there is the Real Madrid that will play in UCL and I dare anyone here say they played it like a friendly. Some were motivated to bite back on Mourinho, they played totally focused and except for the very end, they didn't stop pressing. So it was no friendly behavior from them and they didn't have technical and tactical issues last season (like us) that prevented them to do well in UCL and LL. They had locker room issues, political issues, relationship issues, but they were ready, they made a few capital mistakes that cost trophies, but they were ready as a squad. We never were, so we basically played the RM we could face in UCL in a few months, but they certainly didn't face the same Chelsea they might face later which is why their short preparation is less important than ours. 60% of their issues were fixed the moment Mourinho left. We on the other hand still had 100% of them when Rafael Benitez left - although I don't like Benitez.

BUT I do believe Lukaku is far from being ready to be the guy that will solve our issues in the attack like some here believe. He's not ready, and not only that, he's nowhere near to being ready. He has the same challenges Kevin, Ginkel and Schurrle have - except he has a small edge by having played in EPL last season. Why do I say this edge is small? Because there isn't half the pressure on our midfield (where all those players play) compared to our attack. If Schurrle doesn't deliver, there are 3-4 guys to deliver in his place. If Kevin doesn't deliver it's the same and even with Ginkel is the same because we do have some quality and experience in Essien, Lamps and even Mikel. So while the replacement might not be stellar few people are throwing fits because of AM or DM.

Now the attack has been our Achilles heel since Didier left. And that puts a lot of pressure on Lukaku. He's not one of the guys that could improve, he's the guy that HAS to improve the results if we put him in that position. So he will feel the pressure and he's also not ready technically either. He has plenty of potential (and limitations I believe will follow him through all his career, but he doesn't have to excel in everything about being a striker), potential that will be reached with hard work and minutes played... minutes, not whole matches in UCL being the guy the team and the fans count to have it done. It's utterly unfair to give him that mission and I think slightly delusional of us to think he can already step up and take that responsibility.

The effectiveness he showed playing in Asia compared to the matches he played in America is there for everyone who wants to see it. And why do you think is that? Why would it be different playing for EPL or UCL where we'll definitely play harder opposition compared to both Milan teams? So if he couldn't capitalize the (few) chances he had now, during friendlies where he had moderate pressure on him, why should we think he'll solve all our problems when the season starts? And trust me some fans believe we don't need Rooney because we have Lukaku (just go there and read both threads to see it for yourself). I don't want Rooney particularly, but I think we need another striker asap and if we don't have another one, imo Hazard, Mata, Moses, and Kevin de Bruyne will end up contributing to our improvement in the attack more than I think Lukaku will - and I meant that by scoring goals, not only assisting Torres and Ba.

So I understand your point and agree about the comparison, but I also think he shouldn't be rated so highly as I've seen people rating him here. I don't remember where you stand though - to be honest I don't remember where anyone stands - not even the Belgian members - all I remember is reading posts, but I don't remember who wrote them.

I get it that Lukaku isn't ready to play in the big matches. He still has lots to learn but it's the mentality that matters and the friendly games never bring out that mentality in the players, let alone a 20 year old kid! I remember him chasing the ball around like a dog for West Brom and that was how he got one of his goals, i think it was against Sunderland. That was commitment, that showed that he was dead serious in scoring goals, making his own name! Again, i am not saying he is the answer to our striker problems. Not yet but if we don't put just a little amount of faith in him, he might just lose his interest altogether. And faith is a two way lane! You lose something, you gain something but you gotta take the chance! SO as i said, Rooney for me is a luxury, he will give us the X factor and all that but i am definitely not shitting myself at the prospect of our strikers failing and our team going into a turmoil or something like that! Why? Because we have Jose Mourinho, during his first season with Chelsea, he rotated Gudjohnsen and Didier perfectly. Didier did not light up the PL in his first year, far from it! But he became an integral part if the team which i want Lukaku to be!!

[Blue Armour 4,312]

Pre-season has really started to get hyped up in the past few years. It is still meaningless, but people now pay way way too much attention to it. (These B.S. trophies and tournaments help). Maybe it's not a bad thing we lost. People were insanely overreacting to our wins so insanely overreacting to our loss brings things back to the middle somewhat.

True. You only need to look back at Carlo's last pre-season friendly win against Jose's Inter in 09. We all know how the champions league match ended up.

[Barbara 15,149]

Exactly but the result or game doesn't change my opinion on whether we needed a striker like Rooney or not at all. I've always maintained from the get go that if we get Rooney we'll stand a very strong chance in winning the PL but if not we'll still do pretty well but just not as good.

No need to panic whatsoever.

I don't see it as panic. I feel like some of us thought we progressed more than we actually did because the other 5 matches didn't really challenged us and when a team comes and does (although I think only Bayern and Dortmund could challenge us like RM), it exposes some problems we thought were solved or at least better already.

For example our transition from defence to attack. Come talk to me after you watch the match and you will agree with me the same issues we had last season are still there. As they should! Mourinho is here for less than a month, there's no miracle! But stating the problem is there doesn't mean we're panicking. It means the other matches (not all of them) made it look like we were already making progress in the area, while I feel we're exactly at the same place where we left off last season. It's not only the attack. The team was sort of scared and lost, Marco seemed a bit nervous (as expected) for the first few minutes, Lamps was playing his first match in months, Mata wasn't available even to play 30 minutes, the hole left by Luiz's absence in our defense is immense. So there are a lot of aspects that should be considered before we state there's a lot of issues. But some of those issues will be there against Manchester United and seeing them now more clearer gives Mourinho a chance to work harder to fix it. He won't fix it in 15 days, but he might improve it better seeing now how the team reacted to a strong opposition, rather than being surprised by it happening in a 3-point match.

I remember so clearly when he arrived in Madrid. Trust me, the problems there were deeper and harder to solve than ours. The only thing they didn't have that we do is so many players between age 20-22 (and that's quite the challenge). Their team had older players all around (Casillas, Ramos, Carvalho, Diarra, Pepe, Alonso, Cristiano, Higuain, Kaká etc) while Özil was the only youngster I remember by heart. Marcelo, Benzema, di María, Khedira were all at least 23, so they had the natural adaptation from the new guys, but most of those guys were peaking or approaching their peak... they also had a very complicated problem we don't: confidence. They were Barça's little bitches, a team that had done remarkably bad on UCL exiting on round of 16 for years in a row, there's some crazy amount of pressure from media in Spain - more so than in England imo - especially when you have the names they had back then (that are basically the same names they have now with a few differences). They simply didn't believe they could win against Barça, which meant losing 6 points in La Liga and hoping not to cross with them in UCL. That put a lot of pressure on them wining the other matches, that they had the obligation to win. And they lost many of those matches. Lyon matches (for UCL), middle table teams from Spain come to mind.

But Mourinho turned it around. 2010 was terrible (the year, not the season). Who doesn't remember the 0-5 against Barça? Mourinho took his time, fixed one by one the issues (tactically we have the same issues they had back then though for different reasons - except in the attack, but they had issues on their defence, on their DM, on their midfield [the latter more than we do]) although they had amazing players. But Mourinho used the 2010/11 season to work on those issues. When 2011 started you could already see progress in some areas. And then he worked in the self-esteem, he convinced them they could be anyone - even Barça - because they were good, they worked hard and because that was Real Madrid. And the next season not only they win La Liga, but they establish a new points record, goals record and start to turn around the head to head against Barça.

It wasn't only psychological, but that was without a doubt the root of most of their problems. Tactically there were mistakes. Mourinho was the one to realize Real Madrid couldn't play like Barça because 1) we'd never outplay Barça in their style 2) it didn't fit our players. I can't even say we were possession oriented, or defence oriented, or whatever tactically. We were just fragile and tried everything. It was Mourinho who realized counter-attack and speed - keeping control, not necessarily possession during the match - would be the key for that team to excel.

But to solve the problems the team had Mourinho had to acknowledge them and then he took his time. I think their squad back then is better than our current squad (the starting XI because I think we have more depth than they did), but all we need is some adjustments (I'd say signing a striker and a backup CB because I'm not sure Kalas is there already) and then give time to Mourinho to get to know the team, the players, to see what works and what doesn't. That doesn't come from night to day. I think van Ginkel is enough of an answer to our DM. His partnership with Ramires seems good now - when it's too early and recent - and it's natural to become better as time passes. Of course they'll make mistakes, that's when we can count on Essien and Mikel and even Lampard depending on how we play to get in the team when one doesn't perform well or when one's tired, or injured, etc we have options. Our AM is one of the best in the world (in theory), all we need now is give time for some of those player to mature, others to adapt, others to live up their potential and to find out the style that fits better them individually and collectively. The defence will only have backup issues in my opinion. We can do well with Terry or Cahill by Luiz's side. There's always the possibility of bringing Ivanovic, to use Kalas once in a while (even to add minutes to him). I think we can live with that if we become tactically stronger. Mourinho will improve Luiz and Cahill, but it demands time.

I can't talk for other people, but from what I gathered from most we 'didn't overreact' we just had a reality check about where we stand today - after we take into consideration we played Madrid first team while we had serious absences in ours. We have great chances in EPL imo, but I would consider SF in UCL something out of this world. I see our potential being round of 16 or QF depending on the teams we draw. Even a challenging group may present more than we can handle now because UCL starts next month and we'll still be very "green" as we say in Portuguese (meaning not ready enough).

[Billy. 2,742]

Pre season dont care just hope we have learnt from what happened today

[Mouri_Matic 560]

I

I can't talk for other people, but from what I gathered from most we 'didn't overreact' we just had a reality check about where we stand today - after we take into consideration we played Madrid first team while we had serious absences in ours. We have great chances in EPL imo, but I would consider SF in UCL something out of this world. I see our potential being round of 16 or QF depending on the teams we draw. Even a challenging group may present more than we can handle now because UCL starts next month and we'll still be very "green" as we say in Portuguese (meaning not ready enough).

From the moment we have the mindset that we cannot get out of CL group stage we are fucked. That won't be good enough for a team like us, getting out of the group stage is A MUST. Actually imo we should at least finish in QF unless we draws Bayern/Barca/Madrid/Dortmund in the last 16.

[Barbara 15,149]

I get it that Lukaku isn't ready to play in the big matches. He still has lots to learn but it's the mentality that matters and the friendly games never bring out that mentality in the players, let alone a 20 year old kid! I remember him chasing the ball around like a dog for West Brom and that was how he got one of his goals, i think it was against Sunderland. That was commitment, that showed that he was dead serious in scoring goals, making his own name! Again, i am not saying he is the answer to our striker problems. Not yet but if we don't put just a little amount of faith in him, he might just lose his interest altogether. And faith is a two way lane! You lose something, you gain something but you gotta take the chance! SO as i said, Rooney for me is a luxury, he will give us the X factor and all that but i am definitely not shitting myself at the prospect of our strikers failing and our team going into a turmoil or something like that! Why? Because we have Jose Mourinho, during his first season with Chelsea, he rotated Gudjohnsen and Didier perfectly. Didier did not light up the PL in his first year, far from it! But he became an integral part if the team which i want Lukaku to be!!

key word being the part in bold. I've never lost my faith on him. I have plenty of faith on him becoming what we need, not being what we need. He isn't ready today but I think he will and I hope it will be soon (meaning before the season ends). Some people don't simply have faith on him, they have made him the savior. All in all I still think it's better to start Torres in most matches at first and have patience with Romelu so he progresses naturally (supposing we don't get another striker, and I think odds are we won't ). He'll be challenged to take Torres' position instead of having to prove himself and solve our issues. Let the pressure be on Torres. He'd 29, an experienced bitch, if he can't handle it that's his problem. Romelu is promoted to the first team in a much more pleasing (and easier) way than starting him against ManUtd, ManCity and whoever else in the first 5 rounds.

From the moment we have the mindset that we cannot get out of CL group stage we are fucked. That won't be good enough for a team like us, getting out of the group stage is A MUST. Actually imo we should at least finish in QF unless we draws Bayern/Barca/Madrid/Dortmund in the last 16.

I meant us - the fans - not the team. They have to believe they can win. Didn't the team that won UCL for us believed it til the end? And this team is much better than that one in so many aspects, and they did. It's our expectations as fans that should be moderate and realistic. I think we could make QF - but if we fail to do that, it's okay and if we better than that is more than okay! But I think our reality today is QF at most. Exiting on group stage like last year it is a risk though... to almost every team actually because we don't know the groups yet. I think there are only 3-4 teams that we could say will qualify to knockouts regardless of their group (we played one of them today). The rest (2nd tier, not 2nd class) while expected to advance, could fail. Manchester United failed the year before we did. So did ManCity (although that's sort of expected ).

[Stingray 9,441]

3-1 against one of the absolute best sides in the world (Bayern, Barca and Madrid) is not bad at all, considering our line-ups, changes and missing two of our nailed on starters Luiz and Mata.

The attitude may not have been the best, but seriously CALM down. I've just read the post-match thoughts of Mourinho, and I completely agree. Preseason is the time to make mistakes so he can analyse them and correct them. We have a young team, and they are bound to make mistakes throughout a season, and show dire attitude too. If we overreact everytime this happens, Roman may as well end up doing something stupid.

Give the team some support (not blindly), Madrid is not easy opponent. Considering our victories against Inter and Milan with the exact same youthful setup and the vast changes made at halftime, I think this team has an unbelievable amount of potential both in the short term and long term.

I for one can't wait, and don't really care about the result!

Completely agree !

Also, some of the posts don't seem to know what they want. Either you play to gain fitness and automatisms and you discard the result or you play for result. We simply took the first option. So not fazed at all here. Patience .... The hysteria on here (regarding future CL, EPL, ...) is reaching epic proportions.

[bushman 2,043]

What can I say here ? I am tired this morning, disappointed from the game itself.

Real were a better team, last night. Chelsea had trouble to touch the ball in the first 15 minutes. Marcelo scored at 14 minute, but somehow Ramires got free & equalized 2 minutes later. Jose decided to play Frank even though he was out of shape, played Ramires on the wing, totally useless there too.

After the half, Chelsea came on with several changes, things looked promising then. Hazard had a glorious chance to score, but the dimwit missed it. Then Real popped the 3rd goal in & the game was over.

One might say, it was only friendly. Like fuck, I say. This game showed me Chelsea still pretty far away from the top of the heap, I feel. Erratic passing, hardly any flow from the middle, defense not working together....plenty of mistakes were seen there.

Perhaps, Jose should consider to help the midfield, a creative midfielder would help a lot, instead of buying fucking shrek. After all, what good is a striker if there is no one to pass the fucking ball to him ?

[edetarod 2,155]

i love Ramires

[MAF 162]

Anyone know where i can see the full game? Fell asleep trying to stay up :/

[Stingray 9,441]

Anyone know where i can see the full game? Fell asleep trying to stay up :/

http://livefootballvideo.com/fullmatch/world/international-champions-cup/real-madrid-vs-chelsea#.UgNCQRYgov0