Ilkay Gundogan

[didierforever 7,349]

Do you even understand football??

nope. please take me under your tutelage oh great one.

[Polo7 3,496]

nope. please take me under your tutelage oh great one.

Anyone who compares Matic to Gundogan needs more than a lesson.

[didierforever 7,349]

A Gundogan - Matic pivot is just as good as a Kroos - Matic pivot. Probably even better.

Whilst Kroos might be a stronger player (Gundogan isn't even weak to begin with anyway), Ilkay makes up for that with his speed and acceleration (which may suit our counter attacking game a lot more).

Also, Kroos is definitely more of a goal threat but Gundogan is by far the better dribbler. I think Gundogan compliments Matic more than Kroos does.

precisely. The only difference between rambo and gundogan is their passing ability. Workrate, speed rqmbo trumps gundogan. Hence kroos gives us a much wider range of applications. also I feel this kroos is slow hence won't fit our systen is a poor argument. Bqyern were immense under jupp spexially on countering and kroos was an integral part of it.

[didierforever 7,349]

Anyone who compares Matic to Gundogan needs more than a lesson.

some people on here are just waiting to waste others time.

read what i said to TOLI, and then reply. not the brightest fellow, are u?

[lucio 5,418]

if we want a dlp then someone like banega , rakitic or ander.H could be ideal. all have good defence contribution too

[Polo7 3,496]

some people on here are just waiting to waste others time.

read what i said to TOLI, and then reply. not the brightest fellow, are u?

Lol is this guy for real?

"We have matic, Gundogan doesnt add anything special". Explain yourself.

[The Skipper 20,609]

precisely. The only difference between rambo and gundogan is their passing ability. Workrate, speed rqmbo trumps gundogan. Hence kroos gives us a much wider range of applications. also I feel this kroos is slow hence won't fit our systen is a poor argument. Bqyern were immense under jupp spexially on countering and kroos was an integral part of it.

No way that's the only difference. Gundogan is a proper playmaker, has great vision, can control a game from midfield... Ramires can not. It seems like you haven't seen him play much at all.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

precisely. The only difference between rambo and gundogan is their passing ability. Workrate, speed rqmbo trumps gundogan. Hence kroos gives us a much wider range of applications. also I feel this kroos is slow hence won't fit our systen is a poor argument. Bqyern were immense under jupp spexially on countering and kroos was an integral part of it.

Gundogan has fantastic vision and passing abillity, speed and workrate, what more do you need from a DLP? and how Kroos gives us much wider range of applications? becuase he can shoot? the ideal is to have the CM that will complete our first line up, the fact we have Ramires in the squad doesnt metter because if Gundogan will come Ramires wont be a starter.

To be fair, Kroos was injured when Bayern played against Barcelona/Juve in the CL, when they played on counter attacks. They did played like that against Arsenal and Kross was very good.

[didierforever 7,349]

No way that's the only difference. Gundogan is a proper playmaker, has great vision, can control a game from midfield... Ramires can not. It seems like you haven't seen him play much at all.

i saw him play against RM in the semis, bayern in the final.

dint seem as good as kroos normally is.

but reading about him here it seems he is the next most awesome thing ever which quite normalin the forum in any of the transfer threads. for eg - highly underestimating rambo cos of his recent form while over-estimating gundogan inspite of the fact that he has not played for months now and back problems along with knees are very dangerous to a career.

[didierforever 7,349]

Lol is this guy for real?

"We have matic, Gundogan doesnt add anything special". Explain yourself.

those were supposed to be 2 different things but i can understand why it would be confusing, hence the quote from skipper and toli regarding the same doubt too. but unlike children who just want to be stuck at one point and continue with their doldrums until they prove their points, people here heard what i actually meant to sayin the next posts and continued with the debate.

but well, u can too continue with doing what u do best.

[The Skipper 20,609]

i saw him play against RM in the semis, bayern in the final.

dint seem as good as kroos normally is.

but reading about him here it seems he is the next most awesome thing ever which quite normalin the forum in any of the transfer threads. for eg - highly underestimating rambo cos of his recent form while over-estimating gundogan inspite of the fact that he has not played for months now and back problems along with knees are very dangerous to a career.

Are you sure you watched him against Real? Because he was very impressive in both games against them, excellent in fact. Was the heartbeat of the team, his playmaking and ability on the ball really drove Dortmund on and was on full display in both legs.

Incase you want to rewatch his actions in those games, here's a pretty good video highlighting his every touch:

I love Ramires, and if you go to his thread or just look at most of my posts in relation to him you'll see me defending him, but he isn't as good as Gundogan is technically. As you've said, work rate and speed wise Rambo beats him, but Gundogan's work rate and speed is still pretty good. Ramires beats almost every midfielder in that aspect anyway. Apart from that, Ilkay is better in every other aspect. We shouldn't be comparing them anyway because they are different type of players.

Regarding his injuries, I'm not ignoring them at all, I wasn't even talking about who would be the better transfer between him and Kroos; I was merely discussing his abilities with you because first you sort of compared him to Matic and then you brought Ramires into the equation when he's nothing like either.

A Matic - (fully fit) Gundogan midfield is better than a Kroos - Matic midfield simply because Gundogan complements Matic a lot more than Kroos does. Gundogan can drive forward with the ball, can waltz past players and is very comfortable in possession when surrounded by multiple players - these attributes of his which make him more compatible with Matic as Matic is great at the holding role, the more defensive role of the pivot which will restrict his abilities to go forward - but that'd be fine if a mobile midfielder with Gundogan's skills is next to him. Actually, a good player to compare Gundogan with is Modric.

[Polo7 3,496]

those were supposed to be 2 different things but i can understand why it would be confusing, hence the quote from skipper and toli regarding the same doubt too. but unlike children who just want to be stuck at one point and continue with their doldrums until they prove their points, people here heard what i actually meant to sayin the next posts and continued with the debate.

but well, u can too continue with doing what u do best.

What does having Matic got to do with Gundogan though? Hence you know nothing about football. Keep proving my point over and over.

[didierforever 7,349]

What does having Matic got to do with Gundogan though? Hence you know nothing about football. Keep proving my point over and over.

:blink:

and again u keep proving my point. could not have made myself clearer in the previos post.

[didierforever 7,349]

Are you sure you watched him against Real? Because he was very impressive in both games against them, excellent in fact. Was the heartbeat of the team, his playmaking and ability on the ball really drove Dortmund on and was on full display in both legs.

Incase you want to rewatch his actions in those games, here's a pretty good video highlighting his every touch:

I love Ramires, and if you go to his thread or just look at most of my posts in relation to him you'll see me defending him, but he isn't as good as Gundogan is technically. As you've said, work rate and speed wise Rambo beats him, but Gundogan's work rate and speed is still pretty good. Ramires beats almost every midfielder in that aspect anyway. Apart from that, Ilkay is better in every other aspect. We shouldn't be comparing them anyway because they are different type of players.

Regarding his injuries, I'm not ignoring them at all, I wasn't even talking about who would be the better transfer between him and Kroos; I was merely discussing his abilities with you because first you sort of compared him to Matic and then you brought Ramires into the equation when he's nothing like either.

A Matic - (fully fit) Gundogan midfield is better than a Kroos - Matic midfield simply because Gundogan complements Matic a lot more than Kroos does. Gundogan can drive forward with the ball, can waltz past players and is very comfortable in possession when surrounded by multiple players - these attributes of his which make him more compatible with Matic as Matic is great at the holding role, the more defensive role of the pivot which will restrict his abilities to go forward - but that'd be fine if a mobile midfielder with Gundogan's skills is next to him. Actually, a good player to compare Gundogan with is Modric.

i remember lewandowski raping RM, reus and gotze making RM defenders run around in circles and schmelzer (i think) owning CR in the first leg.

in the 2nd leg i remember the bvb mid to be totally over-run and RM missing the chance of going 3-0 upin the first 10minutes itself. then came a spell of dominance from bvb which i remember bender having a huge role to play in, and then when RM scored, bvb were again over-run. they would most probably have gone thruto the finals too if not for bender's theatrics at the end where he wasted a couple of minutes and killed off rm's momentum. really dont remember much about gundogan.

gundogan can drive forward but i think kroos does that much better, infact i would say that is his USP. also i feel people are majorly under-rating kroos' speed here. like some1 said that bayern JUST played counter attacking football against barca and juve and kroos was injured in those games. i think thats not the right way of looking at it. bayern like any big team is lethal on counters (like RM) and he has been integral to that part of bayern. even in 2011-12, he was critical.

[Mufassir08 2,400]

How come? i dont think there is a real difference.

I feel there is a difference.For me Kroos is definitely the better passer between the two and certainly has more vision while Gundogan is quicker and is the better defender and dribbler.,Gundogan obviously is also a fantastic passer but kroos edges it for me.

On Kroos not controlling enough games,Just ask any Bayern fan and He'll tell you how important Kroos has been to their possession based game.Bastian has been injured most of the season and Thiago has also struggled with injuries while Martinez has not played a lot this season in midfield.Bayern are at the top of the league because Kroos and Lahm have controlled and dictated the midfield in pretty much every game.

[quickpassnmove 924]

gundokhan and Lewa were the reason BVB went as far as they did last year. Lewa had goals, but Dortmund wouldn't have made it to the Final and faired as well as they did versus a superior Bayern side without Gundo in CM. He outshone almost every player in the CL tournament. Hard to say about the injuries now.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

Kroos is the better passer though.

Mata was the better passer than all our our attacking mids, maybe except Eden. You know what happened.

Don't think Kroos' game is suited for our style.

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Mata was the better passer than all our our attacking mids, maybe except Eden. You know what happened.

Don't think Kroos' game is suited for our style.

Kroos is physically a lot better then Mata.He is Stronger,quicker and has more stamina then him also his passing range and vision would any style.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

Kroos is physically a lot better then Mata.He is Stronger,quicker and has more stamina then him also his passing range and vision would any style.

Agreed but I reckon Gundogan is better suited for counter-attacking football than Toni Kroos. He fits best in Pep's Bayern and I am surprised there are speculations about him leaving.

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Agreed but I reckon Gundogan is better suited for counter-attacking football than Toni Kroos. He fits best in Pep's Bayern and I am surprised there are speculations about him leaving.

Kroos was also very important under Heynckes's more direct approach.However choosing between Gundogan and Kroos is like choosing between Ibra and Drogba,both(Kroos and Ilkay) are world class and would take our team to another level.The thing is though Kroos will most likely stay in Munich while Gundogan's injury is a huge worry so I think neither would be our realistic targets.