Closed Chelsea 2-1 Sunderland

[Rupert 130]

Definitely a Liverpool fan.

Tell me then, why does Oscar start for Brazil whilst Coutinho isn't even near breaking through to the Brazilian NT?

You are wrong. Coutinho has "broken through" to the senior national team of Brazil as well as for the Under 20 and Under 17 teams. I suppose you mean why Oscar has had 14 more games than Coutinho for the senior team? I guess the answer is that Oscar got more club games in his home Brazilian league than Coutihno got in the Italian league where he was transferred when he was 18. Or it may be that the NT had a vacancy for somebody playing Oscar's position but not for Coutinho's position on the right wing.

It's got nothing to do with the point I made - Coutinho, who was less than half the cost of Oscar in the PL, is doing better since January 2012 than Oscar for all the reasons I gave in my post.

I've explained several times how long I have supported Chelsea - and it is much longer than you. Why can't you accept that your twisted attitude to the Chelsea manager is not representative of all Chelsea supporters.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

You are wrong. Coutinho has "broken through" to the senior national team of Brazil as well as for the Under 20 and Under 17 teams. I suppose you mean why Oscar has had 14 more games than Coutinho for the senior team? I guess the answer is that Oscar got more club games in his home Brazilian league than Coutihno got in the Italian league where he was transferred when he was 18. Or it may be that the NT had a vacancy for somebody playing Oscar's position but not for Coutinho's position on the right wing.

It's got nothing to do with the point I made - Coutinho, who was less than half the cost of Oscar in the PL, is doing better since January 2012 than Oscar for all the reasons I gave in my post.

I've explained several times how long I have supported Chelsea - and it is much longer than you. Why can't you accept that your twisted attitude to the Chelsea manager is not representative of all Chelsea supporters.

Wrong. Coutinho is also a #10 but plays as a winger for Liverpool. Like Hazard is a #10 but is playing as a winger for us. Coutinho isn't rated as highly as Oscar. He may be playing better but hes NOT the better player. Coutinho has rarely broken through for the Selecao, he has 1 cap which he gained in 2010 in a bounce game against Iran. Oscar has more senior NT caps and U20 caps than him for a reason.

[Land 331]

Wait, Cou is better than Oscar because he has better stats?Does that mean cesc is better than xavi and iniesta too?Oscar is a better footballer than coutinho,we can get back to this discussion when Coutinho destroys a team like juve or becomes one of the best international footy players like Oscar currently.

[The Skipper 20,609]

I've explained several times how long I have supported Chelsea - and it is much longer than you. Why can't you accept that your twisted attitude to the Chelsea manager is not representative of all Chelsea supporters.

I have no idea why you think I have some sort of twisted attitude towards Benitez - I don't really slag him off or anything. I haven't once said Rafa should leave prematurely; I've actually argued that he should stay till the end of the season as I think it'll actually be unhealthy for the club to have an interim-interim manager. Sure I criticise his managerial decisions and validly so. I just don't think Benitez is the right man to take CFC forward at all due to the animosity he has with the fans. I never wanted him here to begin with.

Just because I criticise your posts and your blind love for Benitez, Torres and everything Liverpool related doesn't mean you can automatically assume that I have a twisted attitude towards the manager. Not once have I said that my opinion represents the Chelsea community.

You can say how you've been a Chelsea fan longer than me for all you want but I genuinely don't believe you, nor does the majority of the forum, simply because whenever you post it's either Torres, Benitez or Liverpool related. Never ever have I seen you post anything that doesn't have anything to do with the three aforementioned. We are on the internet anyway, anyone can pretend about their lives. If that's what you have to do just to post about your Benitez/Torres/Liverpool love-in on a CFC forum then its simply not my problem but yours, I really don't care about your own self-delusion.

[bpool 3]

3 points -thats what matters a lot.....

[Rambo 1,729]

I've explained several times how long I have supported Chelsea - and it is much longer than you. Why can't you accept that your twisted attitude to the Chelsea manager is not representative of all Chelsea supporters.

I'm not buying that. It's pretty blatant you have a hard on for Rafa and Torres or anything Liverpool related. However if are in fact a Chelsea supporter then I think you need to seek professional help.

[Rupert 130]

Coutinho (2) has more goals than Oscar (1) but Oscar has 4 assists where as Coutinho has 3 in the PL. The difference is Oscar has played 28 PL games (19 starts, 9 sub appearances) and Coutinho has played 7 since he signed (6 starts, 1 sub apperance) but you have to remember Liverpool have scored 28 goals since the arrival of Coutinho where as Chelsea have scored 22 goals since he arrived. Coutinho has started every game for Liverpool since his move where as Oscar has also been rotated in and out of the team.

As a footballer I'd personally say Oscar edges it in terms of ability but hes not used to the rigors of a 50-60 game season where as Coutinho has played for Inter since he was 18, experiencing CL football for a few years and 50 games a season before even though he was loaned out to Espanyol half way through last year. Both are great prospects, I've followed Coutinho since Rafa gave him his debut at Inter, he was one of the better young players in Europe at that time before he lost his form due to injuries and managerial changes. Oscar has been good for us this year but is tired and failing to play well every week and the fact hes being moved to the right to compensate for Mata doesn't help. He needs to play centrally for us to see the best of him as he isn't quite as explosive as Coutinho is. The two years of European experience Coutinho has gives him a slightly advantage in terms of fitness and physicality of the European game compared to the South American game.

Oscar will be the better player though. Just give him time. His all round game is better than Coutinho's. Oscar has incredible footballing intelligence, which I feel Coutinho doesn't have. He also doesn't or didn't at Inter, work hard enough out of possession where as Oscar as we've seen against countless times, does work off the ball when he loses it.

Coutinho (2) has more goals than Oscar (1) but Oscar has 4 assists where as Coutinho has 3 in the PL. The difference is Oscar has played 28 PL games (19 starts, 9 sub appearances) and Coutinho has played 7 since he signed (6 starts, 1 sub apperance) but you have to remember Liverpool have scored 28 goals since the arrival of Coutinho where as Chelsea have scored 22 goals since he arrived. Coutinho has started every game for Liverpool since his move where as Oscar has also been rotated in and out of the team.

As a footballer I'd personally say Oscar edges it in terms of ability but hes not used to the rigors of a 50-60 game season where as Coutinho has played for Inter since he was 18, experiencing CL football for a few years and 50 games a season before even though he was loaned out to Espanyol half way through last year. Both are great prospects, I've followed Coutinho since Rafa gave him his debut at Inter, he was one of the better young players in Europe at that time before he lost his form due to injuries and managerial changes. Oscar has been good for us this year but is tired and failing to play well every week and the fact hes being moved to the right to compensate for Mata doesn't help. He needs to play centrally for us to see the best of him as he isn't quite as explosive as Coutinho is. The two years of European experience Coutinho has gives him a slightly advantage in terms of fitness and physicality of the European game compared to the South American game.

Oscar will be the better player though. Just give him time. His all round game is better than Coutinho's. Oscar has incredible footballing intelligence, which I feel Coutinho doesn't have. He also doesn't or didn't at Inter, work hard enough out of possession where as Oscar as we've seen against countless times, does work off the ball when he loses it.

I agree that Oscar has qualities and as I said in my original note I believe he will be better in a year or two. The issues are really whether he is a play maker and whether he should be a starter for Chelsea. You make the point that it his play-making that gives him the edge over Coutinho. Coutinho has been used as a winger but I am always delighted when at LFC or Inter he made such decisive - Barcelona like passes in or near the box - and how defences panic when he moves insider and runs at them. He also has a great shot, including a very short backlift and great control. Inter make a lot of bad decisions and selling him to LFC was one of them, especially at such a relatively low price. He should be at Chelsea. Oscar looks good but is ineffective most of the time. He catches the eye with some good goals, but he is supposed to be a playmaker. As I said, he gives the ball away too much.

[Rupert 130]

I'm not buying that. It's pretty blatant you have a hard on for Rafa and Torres or anything Liverpool related. However if are in fact a Chelsea supporter then I think you need to seek professional help.

Yawn!

[Rupert 130]

I have no idea why you think I have some sort of twisted attitude towards Benitez - I don't really slag him off or anything. I haven't once said Rafa should leave prematurely; I've actually argued that he should stay till the end of the season as I think it'll actually be unhealthy for the club to have an interim-interim manager. Sure I criticise his managerial decisions and validly so. I just don't think Benitez is the right man to take CFC forward at all due to the animosity he has with the fans. I never wanted him here to begin with.

Just because I criticise your posts and your blind love for Benitez, Torres and everything Liverpool related doesn't mean you can automatically assume that I have a twisted attitude towards the manager. Not once have I said that my opinion represents the Chelsea community.

You can say how you've been a Chelsea fan longer than me for all you want but I genuinely don't believe you, nor does the majority of the forum, simply because whenever you post it's either Torres, Benitez or Liverpool related. Never ever have I seen you post anything that doesn't have anything to do with the three aforementioned. We are on the internet anyway, anyone can pretend about their lives. If that's what you have to do just to post about your Benitez/Torres/Liverpool love-in on a CFC forum then its simply not my problem but yours, I really don't care about your own self-delusion.

Most of your statement are factually innacurate so I won't take them seriously. Read my posts carefully if you care so much about what I think. You can't have it both ways- either my support for the Chelsea manager and Torres is blind - according to you - or I am posting a lot of facts and arguments in support of them. Which is it?

I started posting on here when I saw how much ignorant crap there was totally false stories about Rafa, viscous insults about Torres And since it comes down to believing or not believing what a poster says I don't believe you don't have a twisted attitude. Why do you get so upset on a Chelsea forum when someone supports the Chelsea manager and main striker?

As for what most of the forum thinks why don't you let them speak for themselves? Some agree with me. I'd like to hear how the antiRafa brigade explain their agenda now that they know that Rafa never said the things they attributed to him. How about an admission if not an apology. How do they justify the stress they placed on the manager and team by their childish insults at Stamford Bridge, Japan, two European cities, Newcastle, Sunderland and Old Trafford. It was disgusting.

In my opinion there are too many Mourinho groupies floating around who allowed him to lead them by the nose about Rafa in the past and who blindly follow every little piece of bait Mourinho and his little gang plant in the media. Get over it - he was sacked by Chelsea for very good reasons just as he will be sacked by Real Madrid and he is not coming back to Chelsea even if he can't get his preferred job in Germany, Paris and Manchester.

[Kojo 4,676]

OH MY GOD I LOVE YOU RUPERT

SMELL MY FINGERS RUPERT

[The Skipper 20,609]

Most of your statement are factually innacurate so I won't take them seriously. Read my posts carefully if you care so much about what I think. You can't have it both ways- either my support for the Chelsea manager and Torres is blind - according to you - or I am posting a lot of facts and arguments in support of them. Which is it?

I started posting on here when I saw how much ignorant crap there was totally false stories about Rafa, viscous insults about Torres And since it comes down to believing or not believing what a poster says I don't believe you don't have a twisted attitude. Why do you get so upset on a Chelsea forum when someone supports the Chelsea manager and main striker?

As for what most of the forum thinks why don't you let them speak for themselves? Some agree with me. I'd like to hear how the antiRafa brigade explain their agenda now that they know that Rafa never said the things they attributed to him. How about an admission if not an apology. How do they justify the stress they placed on the manager and team by their childish insults at Stamford Bridge, Japan, two European cities, Newcastle, Sunderland and Old Trafford. It was disgusting.

In my opinion there are too many Mourinho groupies floating around who allowed him to lead them by the nose about Rafa in the past and who blindly follow every little piece of bait Mourinho and his little gang plant in the media. Get over it - he was sacked by Chelsea for very good reasons just as he will be sacked by Real Madrid and he is not coming back to Chelsea even if he can't get his preferred job in Germany, Paris and Manchester.

Do you really expect me to take your posts seriously when you don't take mine seriously? First of all, I don't really care much about your posts, it justs irritates me how much of a hypocrite you are. You come on the forum wielding the axe as Rafa Benitez's and Torres' guardian angel and then proceed to slag off other managers and players who have done far more for this club than Rafa or Torres ever have done. To me, a proper CFC fan wouldn't slag off a club legend (something Rafa will never be) such as Jose Mourinho just to make Rafa look superior. If you came onto the board and offered an insight on why you think people should stop booing Benitez without slagging previous managers off then I wouldn't have had a problem with you at all. Let me make that clear. I am really not getting upset with you for supporting Rafa and Torres, there are other members who equally support them as much as you do but they don't slag off other players or managers and most importantly, they don't just post about Rafa, Torres or Liverpool related stuff - you'll see them contributing their opinions at other places in the forum, something you obviously don't do.

I still don't know how what Rafa said was false information - enlighten me again, I forgot the sermon you were giving about how quotes about him saying that the CFC fans lack passion were false. Rafa knew what he was walking into when he got the job. He knows that there are a lot of CFC fans that don't like him. Surely if the statements were false he would've made sure that got across in his first PC? In the PC he basically said that what he said in the past is in the past and it basically doesn't matter anymore as that was then - he didn't even have the audacity to say that he never said those things; of course naturally people will assume that those statements he said were true then!

I find it disgusting how you think that it's disgusting that dedicated away fans who have travelled the globe to places such Japan, Bucharest and Russia to support their team were voicing their opinion about the current manager. As I said before, Rafa knew what he was walking into - surely it'd be naive for him to think that he'd walk into a horde of rosy CFC fans after the general consensus here disliked him? Why should people apologise for what he said when he's not even denying it himself?

Your hatred for Mourinho and to a certain extent Ba (who you claim is a lot less talented than our current Torres) and even Terry who I know you have an agenda against, and how you over-glorify everything that Rafa has done whilst belittling every single thing Mourinho has done, is what irritates me the most. I mean how can anyone say Mourinho was sacked for "very good reasons" and then continue to blow Benitez's trumpet even though everyone knows who the better manager and more successful manager is?

It is also interesting how you basically are so certain Mourinho will never return to Chelsea - didn't know you could also foresee the future.

[Reddish-Blue 2,509]

Most of your statement are factually innacurate so I won't take them seriously. Read my posts carefully if you care so much about what I think. You can't have it both ways- either my support for the Chelsea manager and Torres is blind - according to you - or I am posting a lot of facts and arguments in support of them. Which is it?

I started posting on here when I saw how much ignorant crap there was totally false stories about Rafa, viscous insults about Torres And since it comes down to believing or not believing what a poster says I don't believe you don't have a twisted attitude. Why do you get so upset on a Chelsea forum when someone supports the Chelsea manager and main striker?

As for what most of the forum thinks why don't you let them speak for themselves? Some agree with me. I'd like to hear how the antiRafa brigade explain their agenda now that they know that Rafa never said the things they attributed to him. How about an admission if not an apology. How do they justify the stress they placed on the manager and team by their childish insults at Stamford Bridge, Japan, two European cities, Newcastle, Sunderland and Old Trafford. It was disgusting.

In my opinion there are too many Mourinho groupies floating around who allowed him to lead them by the nose about Rafa in the past and who blindly follow every little piece of bait Mourinho and his little gang plant in the media. Get over it - he was sacked by Chelsea for very good reasons just as he will be sacked by Real Madrid and he is not coming back to Chelsea even if he can't get his preferred job in Germany, Paris and Manchester.

The funny thing, you joined this forum a week after Rafa joined Chelsea.

You only support the Chelsea manager because he is Rafa and you only support Torres cause he's a former Liverpool striker.

Could you explain "very good reasons" behind Mourinho's sacking? He is our most successful manager since Roman took over the club.

So when Rafa leaves in May, are you going to keep posting on this forum?

[NiclasCFC 2,582]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N2YylV9A28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5OFe6otxAY

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Torres isn't back, but he was MOTM today. He changed the game with a bit of direct running and he worked his bollocks off which got the crowd into it too.

Luiz and Ivanovic were solid but Sunderland were completely toothless going forward. They still created some opportunities but they never looked like scoring after the opening excitement. Mikel looked great going forward, Toure-esque at points and maybe we need to look to let him go forward more rather than staying back and shielding the defence.

But a good day, except for the Quins result.

Spot on! That's how he plays for nigeria, he moves foward and is more attack oriented with his passing. He actually is supposed to be like a yaya toure, he can use his physique to get past players. He has started getting confidence to go foward recently though instead of just sitting back and passing to back four.

Wigan equalizing Qpr at the last minute was a great result

[didierforever 7,349]

the worst thing about us winning is that "THE IDIOTIC TROLL" gets the balls to come on to the forum and have a discussion. i would like to just once see him debating and posting this much after we have lost or drawn a match. but no... he would probably be busy making FSW "happy" at that time. well thats the difference between a FSW fan and a chelsea fan...

[didierforever 7,349]

any news on BA?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

3 points -thats what matters a lot.....

You get a like because your countries flag is awesome!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I watched the replay, and I must say, I don't think our performance was that bad. Especially in the first half where I thought we some good spells, got into great positions and were unlucky not to score. The second half was a bit more scrappy. Tbf, Sunderland defended very well and with great determination as you would expect in the manager's first game in charge. All in all, it was a crucial three points.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I've explained several times how long I have supported Chelsea - and it is much longer than you. Why can't you accept that your twisted attitude to the Chelsea manager is not representative of all Chelsea supporters.

I don't agree with all the anti-Benitez rhetoric and I've said that pretty much since day one, but you're clearly a troll on the wind up. It's not even subtle anymore and your comments aren't an intelligent, honest defence of Rafa but rancid bait to goad and mock people.

The fact that you've continued for so long is pitiful.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Hang on, did we win or did we lose? I can never tell when I read these topics.

The performance was horrible, yet we got three points. After four games in 9 days and endless rotation, I'd have taken ANY win. We were lucky admittedly, but you need luck to succeed in this game. Onwards and upwards; three wins on the bounce and five from the last six in all competitions is very positive. Our home form has also greatly improved - that is ten wins and a draw in our last 11 at Stamford Bridge.

Plenty of areas for improvement, but after such a brutal schedule, if you'd have offered me a sloppy 2-1 win over a side battling to beat the drop AND with a new manager at the helm, own goals and deflections included, I've have gratefully bitten the hand that feeds. Ergo, I am very happy.

This season will be remembered for winning trophies and our league placement; not for how we achieved it. Opposition fans may begrudge us results and the trophies we have won/may go on to win this season, but the history books make offer no diction of luck and fortune. Just be grateful for the positive result, if nothing else.