Why Are We Playing 4-2-3-1?

[The Mak 4,459]

I'm just not sure why we are continuing to play this formation when it is clear we do not have the players for it.

I remember when AVB was absolutely determined to play 4-3-3, even though we did not have the players for it. He was trying to fit our players into his system, instead of fitting a system around the players we had. His stubbornness, refusal to play the old guard and persistence on playing Mata on the LW saw him lose his job. As soon as RDM came in, he changed it to 4-2-3-1 to basically pack the midfield to make up for the lack of quality we had there.

I'm unsure as to why we continued to play it in this campaign with the players we had and now it seems like a little bit of history repeating; trying to fit players into a system that does not suit them. The main thing for me is the stupid pivot. Fact is, we have no quality defensive-midfielders (Mikel fanboys can rant and rave all they like, I've always believed that there are other players that can do what Mikel does, except they can run and/or pass - see Tiote/Cabaye. Also, Romeu/Josh/Cahlobah are not ready yet). Couple this with no decent striker, which cannot be helped by changing formation I'll admit, makes the 4-2-3-1 pointless. Seriously, how can this formation be used when the pivot and the striker cannot fulfill their duties? It leads to a disconnect and lack of organisation between defense and midfield, along with a blunt attack.

Now i'll admit I'm not a tactical expert, but for me, I'd like to see something along the lines of a 4-3-2-1, 4-1-2-1-2 (January permitting another striker/s) or 4-3-3. Personally, I'd prefer to see a 4-3-2-1 like this:

Cech

Azip - JT - Luiz - Cole

Mikel
Oscar Ramires

Hazard - Mata

Torres

Ideally I'd have a better defensive-mid in there instead of Mikel. Ramires is best as a CM, no one can fault his work-rate there, but asking him to sit back in as a DM is shackling his strengths and it's is not working for him there at all. Oscar has a great work rate too. However, Mata & Hazard don't really, so they wouldn't have as much responsibility with 3 behind them instead of the 2. They can also be pushed out wide if we want a 4-3-3, which also accommodates Moses/Marin. And, of course, I'd have anyone except Torres leading the attack.
But mainly for me, having one DM, two CMs and two AM/Wingers also allows us to fully rotate and utilize all of our squad, giving multiple combinations instead of relying on just DMs and AMs:

DM = Mikel/Romeu/Josh/Cahlobah
CM = Ramires/Oscar/Josh/KDB/Cahlobah/Lamps (if he's still here)
AM = Mata/Hazard/Oscar/KDB/Moses/Marin

What do you guys think? Am I talking nonsense? What formation would you like to see?
(Sorry for the rant )

[manpe 10,861]

It's because it's the formation Torres thrived in in Liverpool

[OneMoSalah 8,889]

(Mikel fanboys can rant and rave all they like, I've always believed that there are other players that can do what Mikel does, except they can run and/or pass - see Tiote/Cabaye.

It doesn't take much footballing ability to do what Tiote does - run about like a headless chicken kicking lumps out of everyone getting booked regularly and sent off at least 5 times per season. Even Joey Barton could do a better job than what he does.

We have bought technical players so if anyone was to replace Mikel it wouldn't be Tiote, hes one of the worst technical footballers I've ever seen. Mikel is a technical player anyway, so why we need another player there is pointless. Mikel is a fantastic option at DM, underrated by many, perhaps the only better DMs out there right now are Sergio Busquets and Javi Martinez.

Personally, I'd prefer to see us going back to 4-3-3 as its a much better system for keeping the ball, better team shape, suits our players better and can go into a 4-1-4-1 / 4-5-1 when defending and when in possession can turn into a 3-4-3. Similar defensive shape to Jose's Chelsea team.

Start:

Defending:

In possession:

If Pep was to become our coach I bet you thats what his team would set up like too.

[manpe 10,861]

I'm gonna stop you right there. Can you please, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE not turn this into another Mikel debate? If I see another thread derailed by it I'm gonna shoot myself and everybody else in the head!

[communicate 2,703]

I'm just not sure why we are continuing to play this formation when it is clear we do not have the players for it.

I remember when AVB was absolutely determined to play 4-3-3, even though we did not have the players for it. He was trying to fit our players into his system, instead of fitting a system around the players we had. His stubbornness, refusal to play the old guard and persistence on playing Mata on the LW saw him lose his job. As soon as RDM came in, he changed it to 4-2-3-1 to basically pack the midfield to make up for the lack of quality we had there.

I'm unsure as to why we continued to play it in this campaign with the players we had and now it seems like a little bit of history repeating; trying to fit players into a system that does not suit them. The main thing for me is the stupid pivot. Fact is, we have no quality defensive-midfielders (Mikel fanboys can rant and rave all they like, I've always believed that there are other players that can do what Mikel does, except they can run and/or pass - see Tiote/Cabaye. Also, Romeu/Josh/Cahlobah are not ready yet). Couple this with no decent striker, which cannot be helped by changing formation I'll admit, makes the 4-2-3-1 pointless. Seriously, how can this formation be used when the pivot and the striker cannot fulfill their duties? It leads to a disconnect and lack of organisation between defense and midfield, along with a blunt attack.

Now i'll admit I'm not a tactical expert, but for me, I'd like to see something along the lines of a 4-3-2-1, 4-1-2-1-2 (January permitting another striker/s) or 4-3-3. Personally, I'd prefer to see a 4-3-2-1 like this:

Cech

Azip - JT - Luiz - Cole

Mikel

Oscar Ramires

Hazard - Mata

Torres

Ideally I'd have a better defensive-mid in there instead of Mikel. Ramires is best as a CM, no one can fault his work-rate there, but asking him to sit back in as a DM is shackling his strengths and it's is not working for him there at all. Oscar has a great work rate too. However, Mata & Hazard don't really, so they wouldn't have as much responsibility with 3 behind them instead of the 2. They can also be pushed out wide if we want a 4-3-3, which also accommodates Moses/Marin. And, of course, I'd have anyone except Torres leading the attack.

But mainly for me, having one DM, two CMs and two AM/Wingers also allows us to fully rotate and utilize all of our squad, giving multiple combinations instead of relying on just DMs and AMs:

DM = Mikel/Romeu/Josh/Cahlobah

CM = Ramires/Oscar/Josh/KDB/Cahlobah/Lamps (if he's still here)

AM = Mata/Hazard/Oscar/KDB/Moses/Marin

What do you guys think? Am I talking nonsense? What formation would you like to see?

(Sorry for the rant )

I think I have said this a couple times, you are essentially playing 4-2-3-1 because oscar will be higher than ramires and you are back to 4-2-3-1

[Kojo 4,676]

It doesn't take much footballing ability to do what Tiote does - run about like a headless chicken kicking lumps out of everyone getting booked regularly and sent off at least 5 times per season. Even Joey Barton could do a better job than what he does.

We have bought technical players so if anyone was to replace Mikel it wouldn't be Tiote, hes one of the worst technical footballers I've ever seen. Mikel is a technical player anyway, so why we need another player there is pointless. Mikel is a fantastic option at DM, underrated by many, perhaps the only better DMs out there right now are Sergio Busquets and Javi Martinez.

Stupid post, Tiote is one of the best at what he does, you're basically saying Essiens job was pointless, yeah well say that when your team is constantly winning the ball back and holding posession. I suggest you watch these players more instead of going on about them, you go on about Mikel like he's a god yet he plays shit and is so average at best it's unbelievable.

And you're saying Mikel is the 3rd best DM in the world?, please stop watching football mate.

EDIT: oh and by the way will you stop saying Mikel is underrated, please cut this shit out, he's easily the most overrated player on this forum, there's only a few who can actually see how average he is.

[Leif 6,006]

When done correctly, 4-3-2-1 is probably my favourite formation.

Although ours would be different, A.C. Milan's Christmas tree version when Kaka was in his prime was absolutely lethal.

This is THE formation for us if we want to retain possession more. However, with that said - I'm always scared about using narrower tactics. I guess a plus about this formation though is that when the opposition has a great, direct winger, you can easily switch into a 4-3-3!

I'd love for us to give this formation a go. It would utilize our squad properly and bring a bit more balance to the starting XI.

[Kojo 4,676]

It's sad to think, how we have spent nearly 100 million and we still have striker problems, midfield problems, defence problems.

Like what the actual fuck?, how does that happen?, oh that's right you buy about 4 number 10's and a winger.

Chelsea has no spine, midfield is the main problem, and has been for a while now. Well we had a major lack of creativity, now that it's installed we have a huge problem with retaining the ball and containing physical prescence. Infact our midfield is shit both ways, it's not good attacking wise or defensive wise. Defence is very wobbly, but it isn't all that bad if Terry is back and the midfield is good.

Striker is obviously a huge issue, not only do we not have enough, we have the worst striker in the world, the biggest flop in the history of not only football, sport itself. So thank you Fernando Torres for making a laughing stock of this club, now please pack your bags and FUCK OFF as soon as you can mate. Now we can focus on getting a striker who can not only score goals, but play and work with the team aswell, my favourite on the list is Edin Dzeko, but that wont happen in January unfortunately.

[The Mak 4,459]

I think I have said this a couple times, you are essentially playing 4-2-3-1 because oscar will be higher than ramires and you are back to 4-2-3-1

I was just using an example from our current squad. As I said, KDB could occupy a CM role in the future, or Josh, or whoever, with Oscar as a AM etc. I'm not saying, "this is the team we should field!". I'm saying that this formation would allow us to use our entire squad better, instead of relying solely on either defensive or attacking midfielders.

P.S. Oscar should be able to do and play as he's told; if he's put as a CM, he'll be told to play like one.

It doesn't take much footballing ability to do what Tiote does - run about like a headless chicken kicking lumps out of everyone getting booked regularly and sent off at least 5 times per season. Even Joey Barton could do a better job than what he does.

Really? Because Tiote reminds of a certain player we could do with right now, whats his name? Oh yeah...Makélelé. Ok, be it an inferior version, but I'd rather have an inferior Mak instead of a Mikel...

[Henrique 9,133]

Stupid post, Tiote is one of the best at what he does, you're basically saying Essiens job was pointless, yeah well say that when your team is constantly winning the ball back and regaining posession. I suggest you watch these players more instead of going on about them, you go on about Mikel like he's a god yet he plays shit and is so average at best it's unbelievable.

And you're saying Mikel is the 3rd best DM in the world?, please stop watching football mate.

EDIT: oh and by the way will you stop saying Mikel is underrated, please cut this shit out, he's easily the most overrated player on this forum, there's only a few who can actually see how average he is.

Mikel is avarage, but not using him in this final was a huge mistake. Rafa is really mediocre.

[Kojo 4,676]

Mikel is avarage, but not using him in this final was a huge mistake. Rafa is really mediocre.

Of course it was, Lampard-Ramires was asking for trouble, though i must admit i did think Lampard would do a much better job coming back and returning. Of course i was wrong about him, I think two new players is needed for DM positions.

[OneMoSalah 8,889]

Stupid post, Tiote is one of the best at what he does, you're basically saying Essiens job was pointless, yeah well say that when your team is constantly winning the ball back and regaining posession. I suggest you watch these players more instead of going on about them, you go on about Mikel like he's a god yet he plays shit and is so average at best it's unbelievable.

And you're saying Mikel is the 3rd best DM in the world?, please stop watching football mate.

EDIT: oh and by the way will you stop saying Mikel is underrated, please cut this shit out, he's easily the most overrated player on this forum, there's only a few who can actually see how average he is.

So Mikel since is average... does that mean Jose Mourinho (Chelsea's greatest ever manager), Phil Scolari (WC winning manager), Carlo Ancelotti (CL winning manager), AVB (retard), Robbie Di Matteo (CL winning manager) and Rafa Benitez (CL winning manager) are all utter idiots who don't understand football at all?

Comparing the Bison to Tiote is ridiculous. Essien could actually contribute going forward, he was an absolute beast physically and technically he was good, a complete midfield player, where as Tiote is good at running around and throwing himself into needless tackles half the time.

There aren't many DMs that I can think of that are better than Mikel either tbh. So yeah hes one of the best in the world imo.

[Henrique 9,133]

It's sad to think, how we have spent nearly 100 million and we still have striker problems, midfield problems, defence problems.

Like what the actual fuck?, how does that happen?, oh that's right you buy about 4 number 10's and a winger.

Because there is no boss. RDM got no control at all, so the board were buying whatever they thought were good enough to play here, and there is a strange thing: dont buy players older than 23 years old.

Chelsea lacks leadership. We need someone that is good enough and experienced enough to have transfers control.

[Henrique 9,133]

Of course it was, Lampard-Ramires was asking for trouble, though i must admit i did think Lampard would do a much better job coming back and returning. Of course i was wrong about him, I think two new players is needed for DM positions.

Lampard is too slow to be a DM. We dont need two, we have Ramires and Luiz can play in that position and Mikel can be a good squad player.

[OneMoSalah 8,889]

Because there is no boss. RDM got no control at all, so the board were buying whatever they thought were good enough to play here, and there is a strange thing: dont buy players older than 23 years old.

Chelsea lacks leadership. We need someone that is good enough and experienced enough to have transfers control.

We need a director of football whos actually got an idea of what hes doing. Louis Van Gaal would have been nice before he got the Holland job or that guy City ended up getting from Barca, could have aided our attempt to get Pep too... That Michael Elemano guy has some sort of idea but hes not the right man to be in charge of transfers.

[Kojo 4,676]

So Mikel since is average... does that mean Jose Mourinho (Chelsea's greatest ever manager), Phil Scolari (WC winning manager), Carlo Ancelotti (CL winning manager), AVB (retard), Robbie Di Matteo (CL winning manager) and Rafa Benitez (CL winning manager) are all utter idiots who don't understand football at all?

Comparing the Bison to Tiote is ridiculous. Essien could actually contribute going forward, he was an absolute beast physically and technically he was good, a complete midfield player, where as Tiote is good at running around and throwing himself into needless tackles half the time.

There aren't many DMs that I can think of that are better than Mikel either tbh. So yeah hes one of the best in the world imo.

Then you sir may aswell be AVB, because you are just like you described him.

Lets face it, you and all the others are lying to yourselves, when Mikel makes a mistake, this forum doesn't even mention it anymore lmao, that's how defensive people have gotten about Mikel. It's pathetic how much he's defended, and what for?, he's made more mistakes for the club than he's benefited us, put it this way Mikel would never make it in any other top teams squad nevermind starting 11.

To say he's one of the best DM's in the world is a complete mockery to every person playing football, and Tiote is aggressive, but he's one of the best damn midfielders in the premier league, especially last season. Even in big games he was always winning the ball back for Newcastle, very good DM and I'm one of the biggeset Essien fans on here but i'll tell you this Tiote was on his level or actually even better last seaso when it came to defensively, I've never seen many people capable of running a game, and he was doing it consistently. The reason why I'm saying he did and was, is mainly due to the fact he's been injured for most of this season unfortunately, so i have my doubts if he is going to get back onto that level.

Mikel is just useless, and has never been on Tiote's level, Mikel is the player who doesn't track back, he's the player who lets his man go all the time, he's the player who was supposed to be our reliable physical presence and multi-range passer, YET we still need those type of players now, so please explain to me how Mikel is good enough?, because he gives us nothing.

[Leif 6,006]

AVB (retard)

[OneMoSalah 8,889]

To say Tiote was anywhere near Essien before his injuries is a mockery to the Bison.

[communicate 2,703]

Of course it was, Lampard-Ramires was asking for trouble, though i must admit i did think Lampard would do a much better job coming back and returning. Of course i was wrong about him, I think two new players is needed for DM positions.

I have been saying this so many times Lampard-Ramires does not work because both of them are better playing higher, It should be either mikel/romeu - ramires/lampard

We definitely need a midfielder, not sure about tiote though I much prefer getting a more creative central midfielder

[manpe 10,861]

I was gonna do the exact same thing, but as you already did it, I'll just quote you.