Fernando Torres

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

  On 13/08/2013 at 21:11, Las7 said:

Your opinion states that Torres is not at fault,

I said no such thing. To repeat myself, I said he's not solely to blame, which was your original argument.

[didierforever 7,349]

  On 13/08/2013 at 18:41, Ankit said:

Here's a 4 month old article where Atletico Mdrid's boss wants him. http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/386551/Diego-Simeone-wants-Fernando-Torres-back-at-Atletico-Madrid

Valencia are reportedly interested in him : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2381357/Fernando-Torres-wanted-Valencia-replace-Roberto-Soldado.html

Here's Jose saying he is happy with him : http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/330223/Banish-those-blues-Jose-Mourinho-urges-Fernando-Torres-to-stay

AM boss wants him and yet no official bid.

valencia article is a dailymail and any1 who reads those are well....

jose wants WAYNE ROONEY. despite us having 3 strikers already. we have a 50mil striker with us and still are going after another 30mil striker? why is that? is that because JOSE is happy with torres? or do u actually think that if we buy rooney we ll keep 4 strikers with us in a predominatly 1 striker system (be it 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3). BA might become the scapegoat here if we end up getting rooney (or etoo, etoo for god's sake, a 31 year old past his prime striker, that should tell you exactly HOW HAPPY jose has to be with our strikers) and he ll probably leave because 1. he would be worth 10-15 (same as torres), 2. he has less than half of torres' wages, 3. he is 100 times a better player than torres.

[didierforever 7,349]

  On 13/08/2013 at 18:41, Ankit said:

Here's a 4 month old article where Atletico Mdrid's boss wants him. http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/386551/Diego-Simeone-wants-Fernando-Torres-back-at-Atletico-Madrid

Valencia are reportedly interested in him : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2381357/Fernando-Torres-wanted-Valencia-replace-Roberto-Soldado.html

Here's Jose saying he is happy with him : http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/330223/Banish-those-blues-Jose-Mourinho-urges-Fernando-Torres-to-stay

AM boss wants him and yet no official bid.

valencia article is a dailymail and any1 who reads those are well....

jose wants WAYNE ROONEY. despite us having 3 strikers already. we have a 50mil striker with us and still are going after another 30mil striker? why is that? is that because JOSE is happy with torres? or do u actually think that if we buy rooney we ll keep 4 strikers with us in a predominatly 1 striker system (be it 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3). BA might become the scapegoat here if we end up getting rooney (or etoo, etoo for god's sake, a 31 year old past his prime striker, that should tell you exactly HOW HAPPY jose has to be with our strikers) and BA will probably leave because teams will actually want him and even make a bid for him unlike floppes because of these reasons

1. he would be worth 10-15 (same as torres),

2. he has less than half of torres' wages,

3. he is 100 times a better player than torres.

so tell me one reason why torres should not get any stick. i mean the person who had the bloody balls of complaining about his place in the team 2-3 days after we won the CL and the person who was made the sole striker of the team by selling off anelka, letting go off drogba and kalou, loaning out lukaku and shifting sturridge to right wing which ultimately made us sell him, and then he screws us over with a string of god-awful performances.

so forgive me if i cant see a silver lining anywhere in this

[Mouri_Matic 560]

  On 13/08/2013 at 20:51, Las7 said:

Had we won 3 of the matches we failed to do by a one goal margin(plenty of which were 0-0 draws btw) - we would have hope for the title come May.

QPR we finished 0-0, Torres played 80 minutes did nothing.

Swansea we finished 1-1, Torres wondered around for 90 minutes.

Liverpool we finished 1-1, Torres was actually still playing for Liverpool that match judging by his performance

Man City we finished 0-0, once again Torres put on his Ghost costume for 90 minutes

Fulham we finished 0-0, nothing meaningful from Torres yet again

QPR lost 1-0, not a hope in the World cause Mr. Torres plays 90 again

Reading draw 2-2, no goal

Newcastle lose 3-2, yet again no goal

Liverpool, Tottenham should I mention those two gems 2-2 with yet again Torres getting 180 minutes and doing jack

Tell me how many of those matches might have been effected if we actually had a capable striker up top who didn't either do his best to sabotage his team mates or went into ghost mode.

I'm not saying we would have won the League without Torres I'm saying if we had a capable striker instead like Lukaku; Sturridge we would have been challenging at the very least till April and if we had a World Class one like RvP we would have won.

I agree completely apart from some of the results like against Reading and Newcastle, we lost points in those match because of pure shit defending instead of Torres but it doesn't help that he doesn't do shit for us either. Some of the games against big teams are understandable because he is not a big game player anymore but games against the likes of Fulham, QPR are UNACCEPTABLE because they are as shit as it comes to in the league. If he can't do shit against them then how the hell does he stands a chance against half decent teams?

[BlueLion. 21,491]

  On 13/08/2013 at 20:51, Las7 said:

Had we won 3 of the matches we failed to do by a one goal margin(plenty of which were 0-0 draws btw) - we would have hope for the title come May.

QPR we finished 0-0, Torres played 80 minutes did nothing.

Swansea we finished 1-1, Torres wondered around for 90 minutes.

Liverpool we finished 1-1, Torres was actually still playing for Liverpool that match judging by his performance

Man City we finished 0-0, once again Torres put on his Ghost costume for 90 minutes

Fulham we finished 0-0, nothing meaningful from Torres yet again

QPR lost 1-0, not a hope in the World cause Mr. Torres plays 90 again

Reading draw 2-2, no goal

Newcastle lose 3-2, yet again no goal

Liverpool, Tottenham should I mention those two gems 2-2 with yet again Torres getting 180 minutes and doing jack

Tell me how many of those matches might have been effected if we actually had a capable striker up top who didn't either do his best to sabotage his team mates or went into ghost mode.

I'm not saying we would have won the League without Torres I'm saying if we had a capable striker instead like Lukaku; Sturridge we would have been challenging at the very least till April and if we had a World Class one like RvP we would have won.

You can't really blame Torres for moreorless any of those results. Did he fuck up a 1v1 when 2-0 on Reading? Nope. Blame our piss-poor defenders.

[Mr_President 404]

  On 16/08/2013 at 20:41, Alex said:

You can't really blame Torres for moreorless any of those results. Did he fuck up a 1v1 when 2-0 on Reading? Nope. Blame our piss-poor defenders.

Whilst I agree that it isn't just Torres's fault, and much of the blame can be laid at the feet of defenders (and a certain manager who shall not be named), you can't say just because he didn't miss a 1v1 means he didn't have a negative effect. I believe the poster was meaning Torres wasn't creating any chances for himself with his lack of movement, or 'ghost mode' as he put it, which is a very important part of a strikers job.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

  On 16/08/2013 at 21:01, Mr_President said:

Whilst I agree that it isn't just Torres's fault, and much of the blame can be laid at the feet of defenders (and a certain manager who shall not be named), you can't say just because he didn't miss a 1v1 means he didn't have a negative effect. I believe the poster was meaning Torres wasn't creating any chances for himself with his lack of movement, or 'ghost mode' as he put it, which is a very important part of a strikers job.

Granted, and I see what the poster is saying. But Torres is Torres. We know he can't carve a slice of cake the same way Didier could: Fernando needs to be spoon-fed. That's the type of striker he is. But we knew that at the start of the season - Torres was our best striker; better than Ba and better than Sturridge. The fact he isn't able to cut the mustard every other game any more is a failing by the club to sign another forward after selling Anelka, Drogba and Kalou without replacing any of them. My point is we can lay the blame of Torres all we like, but was anybody blaming Drogba when we lost games in 2011/12 and he didn't do anything? Because, trust me, there was as many performances from Didier between 2011 and 2012 that were as bad as - actually, probably worse - than anything Torres has done for us. No-one likes it when people bad-mouth Drogba, but it seems to be fashionable to make out Torres is at fault for everything! It's a very ineffective analysis.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Why did I click on the Fernando Torres thread. I have no idea... I already regret my decision.

[mediator 2,026]

  On 16/08/2013 at 21:07, Hutcho said:

Why did I click on the Fernando Torres thread. I have no idea... I already regret my decision.

Same here

[Mr_President 404]

  On 16/08/2013 at 21:06, Alex said:

Granted, and I see what the poster is saying. But Torres is Torres. We know he can't carve a slice of cake the same way Didier could: Fernando needs to be spoon-fed. That's the type of striker he is. But we knew that at the start of the season - Torres was our best striker; better than Ba and better than Sturridge. The fact he isn't able to cut the mustard every other game any more is a failing by the club to sign another forward after selling Anelka, Drogba and Kalou without replacing any of them. My point is we can lay the blame of Torres all we like, but was anybody blaming Drogba when we lost games in 2011/12 and he didn't do anything? Because, trust me, there was as many performances from Didier between 2011 and 2012 that were as bad as - actually, probably worse - than anything Torres has done for us. No-one likes it when people bad-mouth Drogba, but it seems to be fashionable to make out Torres is at fault for everything! It's a very ineffective analysis.

I agree mate, and I think when players retire the hero worship begins and all the bad things are forgotten. I don't think that we would have done much better by using Ba or Sturridge as the other poster suggested because we had many other problems... but clearly, given the number of chances he scuffed (or even failed to create because of the time he spent on the wing) we would have been stronger with a more established striker... I think that's all the other guy was suggesting really.

I suppose you can always blame a certain player (whether it be Mikel, Luiz or Torres) for defeats but ultimately the team has to perform as a team, if the striker isn't performing then the midfield needs to step up etc..

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 16/08/2013 at 21:06, Alex said:

Granted, and I see what the poster is saying. But Torres is Torres. We know he can't carve a slice of cake the same way Didier could: Fernando needs to be spoon-fed. That's the type of striker he is. But we knew that at the start of the season - Torres was our best striker; better than Ba and better than Sturridge.

Sturridge and Ba are both better than Torres, that's not saying the pair are great it's showing how crap Torres is if anything.

When both those forward's got a consistent run of games last season at their clubs before (in Ba's case) and after (in Danny's case) Chelsea they were both scoring goals for fun, Torres hasnt' done that for a long time.

[didierforever 7,349]

  On 16/08/2013 at 21:06, Alex said:

Granted, and I see what the poster is saying. But Torres is Torres. We know he can't carve a slice of cake the same way Didier could: Fernando needs to be spoon-fed. That's the type of striker he is. But we knew that at the start of the season - Torres was our best striker; better than Ba and better than Sturridge.

ban yourself.

[nore_ega 8]

off topic just wondering but when we sold d.sturridge to Liverpool did we insert a buy-back clause ??

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 16/08/2013 at 22:35, nore_ega said:

off topic just wondering but when we sold d.sturridge to Liverpool did we insert a buy-back clause ??

Doubt it, would have been interesting to see what Jose would have done with him having said that.

[nore_ega 8]

  On 16/08/2013 at 22:48, Tomo said:

Doubt it, would have been interesting to see what Jose would have done with him having said that.

How could they not the board haven't they learned anything from Barcelona Selling such a talent without a buy-back clause bad move. he would have been our main man up front because he knows where the back of the net is plus he would fit in jose mourinho's new philosophy to nurture Young talent

[Barbara 15,149]

the things I read in this thread

Torres sucks, no one will scream this louder than me. Still he's the best (or the less worse) option we have.

I want to see people here blaming Lukaku, Eden, Kevin, André who had all missed sitters before when they do it again while our defence gives away 2-0 margins like in the Juventus match... It doesn't matter how many goals we score if we concede just as many or even more. And pls, one of those QPR matches was a horror show. Bring in Messi to score us the winner and we would still look bad for struggling so much against a side everyone but us raped throughout the season.

Torres was at fault. He continues to be at fault. But Ba didn't fit in (yet or never is still to be known). Lukaku is still raw. Add limited (one - maybe two - pony trick) and clumsy to that and we already have problem. But that's not only all... only a blind (or delusional denial) can't see he's already feeling the pressure (been nervous, erratic, and even stupid in some of this decisions in the past 3 matches). The goal he did score was going to be far well wide had the defender not blocked it and pushed the ball into the net. And let's not forget the boy is 20! I don't expect a 20yo boy to solve a problem we've had FOR YEARS.

Drogba did win that UCL for us, along with Cech and our defence, but look at his stats (actually all our strikers') on EPL lately. It's been hideous, but I'll spare you the work. Didier: 2010/11: 11G, 13A (the assists were fair decent, I'll give that); 2011/12 5G, 1A. In both seasons our top scorer in the league had respectively 13G 4A and 11G 3A. Didier is a genius though and a special guy who scored capital goals for us, but it doesn't change the fact we've had strikers issues for years now. And if a finished product (of highest quality) doesn't come until September 2nd we'll continue to have for at least another season...

So if Rooney whoever doesn't come, sorry to inform, we'll have to continue to rely mainly on Torres (and that's progress from relying only on him) because Lukaku isn't ready as all of you here seem to believe.

The same argument used for people celebrating when Torres scores - I really don't get why we shouldn't... it doesn't matter if it's out of pity, anger, sadness or whatever, he plays with a Chelsea shirt of course I'm going to celebrate it! Was I suppose to be mad or hate it? - applies to expecting Lukaku to save the day: it's because we pity ourselves. Well, or so at least I feel like most people have their hopes high about a 20yo that is definitely not ready for the same reason. We use those things to comfort ourselves about the obvious and awful truth: our attack force is poor for a team our level. Just compare us to both Man teams, Arsenal and even Liverpool. They have at least one guy that goes there and gets the ball in when they need it. Most of them have more than one quality guy to do that.

Last season we didn't have this guy, right now we continue not to have this guy. The good news is that last season in addition to that, we had our defence gifting goals away and hopefully now it'll be a different story.

So yeah, it makes me really disappointed (on the board, Roman, etc...) that we'll probably play another season with the same issue we've been having for a few years while they seem to watch idly or simply not get the right guy.

I do hope to be wrong about Lukaku though. I do hope he gets over the emotional barrier is clear he has now and that he improves in a few areas enough to give us a fair amount of goals. Because without both things he will be Torres 2.0 (scoring some goals, but maybe not the ones we need him to score) for the simply fact that it's damn right tougher scoring in a team like Chelsea than in a team like West Brom because opponents don't play as deep against the likes of Brom as they do against a team that has the attacking midfield we have. Teams don't 'respect' or fear WBA as they respect and fear us, especially when there's a tactician in our dugout... and that tactician alone makes the opposition get a deeper and heavier lineup because they don't want to be surprised by great tactics. Add Hazard, Mata, KDB, André and even Moses and Oscar to the mix and of course they'll come to us as closed and tight as a virgin.

I wonder how Lukaku will do against that compared to looser opposition he played while in West Brom. There were already many of you moaning about Real Madrid (!) and Roma having good defenders marking him... yeah... because that's not how most teams play against us, is it? And moaning about having defenders marking a striker is such a poor excuse. It's the striker's responsibility to work it around and get things done. That's what separates a top potential and a top talent to use the words José did earlier this season. So if some of you excused Lukaku ghost appearances in those matches (and also Milan's) I wonder if you're prepared to use the same excuse for about 20 of our fixtures on EPL... or will you turn against the boy in let's say 10 rounds from now?

I want to believe Lukaku will solve our problems, just like you all already do. I just think it's far fetched. As much as Mourinho fixing Torres is. At the end of the day our striking force sucks. The only positive thing about it is that in a couple of years Lukaku could be the definite answer to that. He isn't now though. So I'm preparing myself to rely on Eden, Kevin, Lamps, Mata, Oscar, André, etc... because those guys will probably get us 40-50 goals and those might be the ones that will save the day. I do hope Torres, Lukaku and Ba score what we need to. I don't care who the fuq scores because they all play in Blue, so the guy I'm clapping to is indifferent.

Sometimes I feel like 80% of this forum wants (and takes pleasure in) Torres to fail because there are other few explanations left to stress and laugh (and sometimes even celebrate) at his failure... one would think it isn't Chelsea failing...

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 16/08/2013 at 23:18, Barbara said:

Sometimes I feel like 80% of this forum wants (and takes pleasure in) Torres to fail because there are other few explanations left to stress and laugh (and sometimes even celebrate) at his failure... one would think it isn't Chelsea failing...

You can't be serious? i would love Torres to all off a sudden replicate his Liverpool form, (something resembling of a footballer even would do), but it's quite clear it will never happen.

[nore_ega 8]

  On 16/08/2013 at 23:18, Barbara said:

the things I read in this thread

Torres sucks, no one will scream this louder than me. Still he's the best (or the less worse) option we have.

I want to see people here blaming Lukaku, Eden, Kevin, André who had all missed sitters before when they do it again while our defence gives away 2-0 margins like in the Juventus match... It doesn't matter how many goals we score if we concede just as many or even more. And pls, one of those QPR matches was a horror show. Bring in Messi to score us the winner and we would still look bad for struggling so much against a side everyone but us raped throughout the season.

Torres was at fault. He continues to be at fault. But Ba didn't fit in (yet or never is still to be known). Lukaku is still raw. Add limited (one - maybe two - pony trick) and clumsy to that and we already have problem. But that's not only all... only a blind (or delusional denial) can't see he's already feeling the pressure (been nervous, erratic, and even stupid in some of this decisions in the past 3 matches). The goal he did score was going to be far well wide had the defender not blocked it and pushed the ball into the net. And let's not forget the boy is 20! I don't expect a 20yo boy to solve a problem we've had FOR YEARS.

Drogba did win that UCL for us, along with Cech and our defence, but look at his stats (actually all our strikers') on EPL lately. It's been hideous, but I'll spare you the work. Didier: 2010/11: 11G, 13A (the assists were fair decent, I'll give that); 2011/12 5G, 1A. In both seasons our top scorer in the league had respectively 13G 4A and 11G 3A. Didier is a genius though and a special guy who scored capital goals for us, but it doesn't change the fact we've had strikers issues for years now. And if a finished product (of highest quality) doesn't come until September 2nd we'll continue to have for at least another season...

So if Rooney whoever doesn't come, sorry to inform, we'll have to continue to rely mainly on Torres (and that's progress from relying only on him) because Lukaku isn't ready as all of you here seem to believe.

The same argument used for people celebrating when Torres scores - I really don't get why we shouldn't... it doesn't matter if it's out of pity, anger, sadness or whatever, he plays with a Chelsea shirt of course I'm going to celebrate it! Was I suppose to be mad or hate it? - applies to expecting Lukaku to save the day: it's because we pity ourselves. Well, or so at least I feel like most people have their hopes high about a 20yo that is definitely not ready for the same reason. We use those things to comfort ourselves about the obvious and awful truth: our attack force is poor for a team our level. Just compare us to both Man teams, Arsenal and even Liverpool. They have at least one guy that goes there and gets the ball in when they need it. Most of them have more than one quality guy to do that.

Last season we didn't have this guy, right now we continue not to have this guy. The good news is that last season in addition to that, we had our defence gifting goals away and hopefully now it'll be a different story.

So yeah, it makes me really disappointed (on the board, Roman, etc...) that we'll probably play another season with the same issue we've been having for a few years while they seem to watch idly or simply not get the right guy.

I do hope to be wrong about Lukaku though. I do hope he gets over the emotional barrier is clear he has now and that he improves in a few areas enough to give us a fair amount of goals. Because without both things he will be Torres 2.0 (scoring some goals, but maybe not the ones we need him to score) for the simply fact that it's damn right tougher scoring in a team like Chelsea than in a team like West Brom because opponents don't play as deep against the likes of Brom as they do against a team that has the attacking midfield we have. Teams don't 'respect' or fear WBA as they respect and fear us, especially when there's a tactician in our dugout... and that tactician alone makes the opposition get a deeper and heavier lineup because they don't want to be surprised by great tactics. Add Hazard, Mata, KDB, André and even Moses and Oscar to the mix and of course they'll come to us as closed and tight as a virgin.

I wonder how Lukaku will do against that compared to looser opposition he played while in West Brom. There were already many of you moaning about Real Madrid (!) and Roma having good defenders marking him... yeah... because that's not how most teams play against us, is it? And moaning about having defenders marking a striker is such a poor excuse. It's the striker's responsibility to work it around and get things done. That's what separates a top potential and a top talent to use the words José did earlier this season. So if some of you excused Lukaku ghost appearances in those matches (and also Milan's) I wonder if you're prepared to use the same excuse for about 20 of our fixtures on EPL... or will you turn against the boy in let's say 10 rounds from now?

I want to believe Lukaku will solve our problems, just like you all already do. I just think it's far fetched. As much as Mourinho fixing Torres is. At the end of the day our striking force sucks. The only positive thing about it is that in a couple of years Lukaku could be the definite answer to that. He isn't now though. So I'm preparing myself to rely on Eden, Kevin, Lamps, Mata, Oscar, André, etc... because those guys will probably get us 40-50 goals and those might be the ones that will save the day. I do hope Torres, Lukaku and Ba score what we need to. I don't care who the fuq scores because they all play in Blue, so the guy I'm clapping to is indifferent.

Sometimes I feel like 80% of this forum wants (and takes pleasure in) Torres to fail because there are other few explanations left to stress and laugh (and sometimes even celebrate) at his failure... one would think it isn't Chelsea failing...

completely agree our striker situation suck. 3 strikers and none of them can you rely on. Sturridge would have been a problem solver.