Respect the fans

[CHOULO19 24,332]

^^

Brilliantly said

[Muzchap 8,966]

Yeah for a thread Entitled

Respect the Fans...

Shouldn't we Respect each other first?

[RamiCFC9 258]

You seem to think that we played shit because of Di Matteo. Are you genuinely stupid enough to think this? We were winless in 3 games. We had won 2 of our last 8 games. It is known as a blip and we seem to have one every year during Autumn/Winter. Why would we end up with zero trophies because we had been on a blip? We were still 3rd in the Premier League, in the Quarter Finals of the Capital One Cup and if our players had not thrown away a 2 goal lead against Juventus we would be in a good position to qualify for the last 16 of the Champions League.

You are in absolutely no position to criticise other people as fans. As zolayes has said, you posts make it so obvious that you are a gloryhunter, I will give RDM more support than other managers that we have sacked because of the poor treatment the board gave him when they sacked a Chelsea legend. You probably wouldn't care for him as a player because you probably didn't give 2 fucks when we were a midtable team.

Once again Ill say Iam little disappointed RDM wasn't here long enough for all to see this wasn't a "blip" but the guy was plainly clueless.It's ok however, Robbie still has good image, you still have your delusions and we have a 10x better manager and Iam happy with that.When I started watching football regularly, Chelsea already were bought by Roman and were already top team.The difference between new and old fans is that, the younger generation doesn't take fails as lightly as the old ones and there's nothing wrong with that as far as Iam concerned.Big teams always have fans who have big expectations.It's like in family, good parents are never happy unless the kid has straight 'A's.If they are happy then they'll trap the kid in the prison of mediocrity wich all you "old" Chelsea fans know too well.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

You say Fergie is good with academy players, then why didn't he give two academy defenders a chance instead of splashing £30m combined on Smalling and Jones. Why didn't he give an academy forward a chance instead of splashing out £30 on Rooney? At top clubs challenging for trophies there is too much pressure to randomenly promote academy players, even for some one who's job security is as high as Fergie's who is still living off that freak golden generation he's produced nothing but the odd squad player since then, Fletcher aside, yes Welbeck and Cleverly, but he didn't promote them randomenly, he didn't trust them properly until they proved themself's on loan in the Premier League and if our academy players want to stand a chance here, they need to do the same.

You're trying to argue that Fergie is not good at developing players because sometimes he chooses not to use academy players? Being good at developing talent doesn't mean that you always develop every single player and you don't buy anybody, it just means that you can develop some. It's like saying "if he's so good at free kicks, why did he miss the net last week"? Sometimes, he realises that the academy players aren't good enough and he has to buy someone, often even.That doesn't mean he's bad at developing talent. I'm not particularly praising Fergie anyway. I'm just pointing out that there's a model that mixes in youth and one that buys its talent. (Barcelona versus Real Madrid too). We have not developed a single starter since John Terry. That's 15 years ago. The second best player to come out of our academy since then is probably Carlton Cole and he's not even a Premier League-caliber player. It's not just about the academy. ManU are constantly buying younger players and giving them opportunities. Chelsea would never have given the opportunity for Ronaldo to develop over a few years. Ronaldo scored 9 goals in his first two seasons. When was the last time Chelsea allowed a young player to struggle and play regularly? Again, you look at us this season. We will never have a better opportunity to play our young players and we aren't.

Take someone like Nick Powell. Fergie will work him into 15 games or so this season and more next season if he responds. Even with their surplus of strikers, Welbeck will still probably play in 30 games. Smalling and Evans will get a lot of time. That's what they do (and I should stress, not just them, pretty much every club except us and City). That's what we don't do and never will do. We could have kept McEachran at Chelsea. We could have kept De Bruyne. We could have played them with some regularity. We didn't.

Here are our league appearances in the league by unproven young players

2011-2012-Lukaku-1 start, 7 subs, Hutchinson-1 start, 1 sub, Romeu-11 starts, 5 subs, Bertrand-6 starts, 1 sub, McEachran-0 starts, 2 subs

2010-2011-Sturridge-0 starts, 10 subs, Bertrand 0 starts, 1 sub. Kakuta-1 start, 4 subs. McEachran-1 start, 8 subs.

2009-2010-Sturridge-2 starts, 11 subs. Matic-0 starts, 2 subs. Hutchinson-0 starts 2 subs. Kakuta-0 starts 1 sub. Borini-0 starts, 4 subs. Van Aanholt-0 starts 2 subs. Bruma- 0 starts, 2 subs.

2008-2009-Di Santo-0 starts, 8 subs. Mancienne-2 starts, 2 subs. Stoch-0 starts, 5 subs.

Want to see the difference? ManU

2011-2012-Welbeck-23 starts, 7 subs, Smalling-14 starts, 5 subs. Cleverly-5 starts 5 subs, Jonny Evans-28 starts, 1 sub

Arsenal

2011-2012-Szcezesny-38 starts, Gibbs-15 starts, 1 sub, Oxlade-Chamberline-6 starts, 10 subs, Jenkinson-5 starts, 4 subs. Ramsay-27 starts, 7 subs.

This is the fundamental difference. We do not give playing time to unproven young players. We don't work players into our starting XI. We buy them. I don't know why anyone thinks that is suddenly going to change. It's just the way we operate.

[The only place to be 11,313]

2011-2012-Welbeck-23 starts, 7 subs, Smalling-14 starts, 5 subs. Cleverly-5 starts 5 subs, Jonny Evans-28 starts, 1 sub

Welbeck wasn't unproven. He played almost 30 games for Sunderland.

Smalling wasn't unproven. He played 20 games for Fulham, although he was a late developer.

Cleverley wasn't unproven. He played 50 games in the Championship and 25 games for Wigan. He was about 21 before becoming a United regular if I remember correctly.

Evans also had about 30 games at Sunderland.

The reason I think we're going to give our 'unproven' (except they'll be about as unproven as some of the players you mentioned) players a go is because they're more talented than the ones we've had at the club previously.

[Tomo 21,751]

@TorontoChelsea,

The United players you have mentioned.

Welbeck, not trusted by Fergie until he proved himself at Sunderland, likewise with Evans. Cleverly the same but at Wigan. Smalling played a good 2/3rds of a season at Fulham before going to United, do you think Fergie would hve brought him straight from Maidenhead?

When all those United players were unproven in the PL, they were getting as many starts as ours. Danny proved himself at Bolton and therefore AVB threw him in the limelight, if McEachran proved himself at Swansea he would be playing for us now, if he helps take Boro up then performs in the Prem next season, he will be straight in with us the same way Welbeck and Cleverly were at United. If Van Aanholt took his chance at Wigan, he would be here now, same with Mancienne at Wolves.

You also say we don't buy young players and help them develop, well didn't we sign Mikel as a teenager and keep faith in him and now he is one of the first names on the team sheet? Im pretty sure he started the 2007 FA Cup final as a 19 year old.

Although we sold him, Diarra was given opportunities by Mourinho which set him in good sted for the career he has gone on to have. Infact he got more opportunities for us than he did under saint youth developer Arsene.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Apparently Pep is ready to take brazil job...

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

@TorontoChelsea,

The United players you have mentioned.

Welbeck, not trusted by Fergie until he proved himself at Sunderland, likewise with Evans. Cleverly the same but at Wigan. Smalling played a good 2/3rds of a season at Fulham before going to United, do you think Fergie would hve brought him straight from Maidenhead?

When all those United players were unproven in the PL, they were getting as many starts as ours. Danny proved himself at Bolton and therefore AVB threw him in the limelight, if McEachran proved himself at Swansea he would be playing for us now, if he helps take Boro up then performs in the Prem next season, he will be straight in with us the same way Welbeck and Cleverly were at United. If Van Aanholt took his chance at Wigan, he would be here now, same with Mancienne at Wolves.

You also say we don't buy young players and help them develop, well didn't we sign Mikel as a teenager and keep faith in him and now he is one of the first names on the team sheet? Im pretty sure he started the 2007 FA Cup final as a 19 year old.

Although we sold him, Diarra was given opportunities by Mourinho which set him in good sted for the career he has gone on to have. Infact he got more opportunities for us than he did under saint youth developer Arsene.

I don't even know what you're arguing. I never said that Fergie brings players straight into the team. I'm saying that he brings them into the team. (And as for the "proving themselves" you are vastly overstating the success these players had prior to being in ManU. Smalling played 12 games at Fulham the year before. Jonny Evans played 15 games at Sunderland. Welbeck scored 6 goals in a season for Sunderland.) We don't. As for Mikel, 1) That was 6 years ago 2) Mikel was a 16M pound buy. He was very expensive player (one of the most expensive that summer), a situation much closer to say Oscar or Hazard than to any of the players we discussed. That's not developing a young player, that's buying a hot prospect. That we can do and do do. Do you really think that if McEachran has a good loan spell, he'll be back starting regularly for Chelsea? It seems incredible to me that anybody can believe that after watching this team. The only time I ever remember under Roman someone going out on loan and coming back and getting a starting job was Sturridge. And that's because he scored 8 goals in 12 games at Bolton and our only other player capable of playing RW in AVB's system was 32 and a poor fit for the system and Sturridge started scoring immediately. And even though Sturridge is really one of the the only young players we've developed in about 15 years, was our leading goal scorerer last season, we're still going to let him go because the club still feels he's not good enough. Chelsea buy their talent. That's the way it's always been since Roman has taken over. (And it's been a decade already. We have plenty of evidence of that by now. 10 years, no starters developed.)

[Tomo 21,751]

That we can do and do do. Do you really think that if McEachran has a good loan spell, he'll be back starting regularly for Chelsea? It seems incredible to me that anybody can believe that after watching this team. The only time I ever remember under Roman someone going out on loan and coming back and getting a starting job was Sturridge.

Because he's the only one that's gone on a PL loan and proved himself, if McEachran did a Wilshere at Swansea he would have got a shot this term.

[TheCount 146]

Another kneejerk thread, reading these you would think we are the only club that sacks managers.

Inter, Porto, Ajax, Bayern and Real have gone through manager's at the same rate we have since 2003 are you saying Moratti for example has no respect for the Inter fans?

The days of managerial stability is dying out, when Ferguson has retired they will be gone completely (atleast at top clubs winning things). If were lucky were find a long term manager, long term being 3-5 years, but ive learned to accept that any longer will never happen.

You seem to think that because other teams sack manager's it make's what roman has done ok,

Now, That, is fucking stupid, dont worry about what other teams are doing, worry about what were doing,

and what we just did to RDM was wrong. Simple as.

Also all the teams you've added as example's of sacking managers have done terribly in comparison to their pre-sacking-mulitble- manager's phases. So i dont really see what your trying to argue.

[Rmpr 8,977]

The understanding here needs to be that plainly this: The board and Roman never wanted Di Matteo to lead this rejuvenation for this squad. It was a mere obligation for them to hire Di Matteo because of his successes last season, and I think that's something we should've seen in hindsight. It's basically putting it this way, had Avram Grant won the Champions League in 2008 the same thing would've happened.. The sequence would've been identical.

Of course we have the right to be angry, frustrated and disappointed at the complexity of these issues at our club. This club's been through the brink of liquidation to vast wealth that some of us never fathomed. We've been through the heartbreak of Moscow to the jubilation of Munich. From the heartbreak of waving Mourinho away to the joy of the potential of Villas-Boas.

My point is, a lot changes in football. Finances, players, management even ownership.. But the fans must be the ones who unite and stick with the club through all that. The fans still make this club, irrespective of the board's decisions. The fans have a large say on club's dealings (case & point: CPO saga). We have to believe in this club, believe in the owner & believe in ourselves as fans to get us through all this.

Carefree wherever we may be.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Chelsea buy their talent. That's the way it's always been since Roman has taken over. (And it's been a decade already. We have plenty of evidence of that by now. 10 years, no starters developed.)

And they're looking to change that. They've been looking to do that since they appointed Arnesen and completely revamped the the academy.

We simply haven't had the quality of youngster that we do now, and we'll be looking to bring the talent through but it's tough at any club.

[Tomo 21,751]

You seem to think that because other teams sack manager's it make's what roman has done ok,

Now, That, is fucking stupid, dont worry about what other teams are doing, worry about what were doing,

and what we just did to RDM was wrong. Simple as.

Also all the teams you've added as example's of sacking managers have done terribly in comparison to their pre-sacking-mulitble- manager's phases. So i dont really see what your trying to argue.

Do i agree with the sacking? no, have i learned from previous occasions (especially the AVB sacking) to learn to trust the owner? yes, were you one of the many stripping Lampard of his legend status when AVB left?

You saying those clubs have done crap compared to us? Ajax and Spurs maybe but Inter sacked Mancini after back to back titles. Schuster, Capelo and Del Bosque were sacked shortly after league successes, CL too in Del Bosque's case.

He may do things we don't agree on but so would i if i was owner and so would you. For example i wanted Sven when Ranieri got the chop, although given i was only 12 at the time i hope i can be forgiven for that piece of naivety.

The fact is Roman is a dedicated owner and not many clubs are that lucky, if you want an owner to moan about, get to Stamford Bridge on Sunday and make a banner asking for Hicks and Gillett.

[RamiCFC9 258]

Apparently Pep is ready to take brazil job...

Lol imagine if Pep really takes Brazil.World cup 2014 final - Brazil vs Spain, the biggest game in history.

[Tomo 21,751]

I wanna add something to the "Roman has no respect for the fans".

Does he have to listen to everything we say to respect us? At the end of the day if he listened to us in 2009 Carlo would never have turned up. Or if he listened to us in 2004 Ranieri would have stayed, meaning Mourinho would have worked his magic elsewhere.

[nullabletype 987]

Wow...we didn't every game we should have won??? That's horrible. We should fire every coach who does that!!! (which is every single coach) This is the exact ridiculous expectations fans have. It's so annoying. "He should have made this substitution", "he should have played this formation" like there's some sort of magic formula to winning. Sometimes, it's just the players. Everyone wants to be the manager and because their formations and tactics never actually get tested, they are never wrong...and even when they are implemented and don't work, you can just blame some other aspect of the managing. From January through March 2006, Chelsea drew at home to Charlton, tied Villa and Birmingham City away, lost to Fulham, Blackburn, Middlesbrough, and Newcastle. We dropped points in 7 of our last 16 games. All of them winnable. Was Mourinho over his head? Was he tactically unaware because we dropped points to teams we shouldn't have? We had a far better team, facing much worse competition and we had much less excuse for losing. Mourinho should have been sacked then.

And as for the first part, it's pertinent. You don't need to get a manager who has managed a big club before. You just need a manager who wins. Our only to visits to the CL finals were under Di Matteo and Grant our two least experienced managers. All managers start somewhere and feeling like you need to get a big name is just insecurity.

It's not about losing games as such, any premier league team on their day can beat another. It's about the manner in which we lost. Scrappy wins over MUFC in the league cup, and Shakhtar shouldn't cover up the obvious flaws. Neither should a run of easily winnable fixtures at the start of the season.

And you can talk about the the coaches that have taken this team to UCL finals all you want. I think if anything, this argues in favor of the squad being more important in those cases than the manager at the time. Avram led us to a final, what exactly has he done since and how good a coach was he before? RDM just landed in at a crucial time, and we had a lot of luck. Messi and Robben missing pens against us etc. RDM didn't win the UCL because of his magnificent managerial prowess. Rather, a bunch of players with their last bite at the cherry worked as hard as they could. Of course RDM added something, but he was not the main factor at play here.

You can come out RDMs arse all you want, but we will really see how good he is as his career advances. And don't talk to me about fans complaining about specific tactics, I don't pretend to know better (you will never see me on here posting formations etc). But you don't need to be an armchair know-it-all to know when a manager is capable or not.

I agree it's not about big names, but funny enough, big names are big for a reason. Anybody who thinks RDM is a great coach is fooling themselves. And wanting stability for stability sake is worthless.

I'll end by saying this. I post on another forum that deals with all teams. I can't think of one other fan of another team who was convinced by RDMs UCL results. Everybody outside of Chelsea fans perceived that run to be the players will coupled with luck. Many agreed that RDM deserved the job purely for what he had overseen, but most guessed he wouldn't be up to challenge and would never replicate that success. Here we are having just sacked him, and his run this season has arguably been worse than that of AVBs. Again, most agreed that his sacking was unfair, as most sackings are, but had seen it coming non the less. The only people defending RDM are people who have their emotions invested in this club legends success because of the image it produces. In reality, RDM is a mid table manager (at best) and will remain one.

That's not being unfair. That's just how it is. I'm not in favor of sacking managers every week. My problem is, in reality, RDM really shouldn't have gotten the job in the first place. Much as we all hoped he could continue to succeed. It was never going to happen. RDM is a victim of a board who hire the wrong people, he was sacked because he was the wrong man to begin with.

You can reply if you want, I'm done talking about it now. I will gladly eat crow of Robbie goes on to be a great manager. I just can't see it, and would be more than happy to bet that he will never lead another top team to any real success.

[zolayes 14,489]

I wanna add something to the "Roman has no respect for the fans".

Does he have to listen to everything we say to respect us? At the end of the day if he listened to us in 2009 Carlo would never have turned up. Or if he listened to us in 2004 Ranieri would have stayed, meaning Mourinho would have worked his magic elsewhere.

he could deign just to speak to us once ...Acknowledge our existence....

[Fulham Broadway 17,319]

Will be fisticuffs or at least heated verbals amongst Chels tomorrow.

Someone will say 'fuck of you fat cunt' to FSW then someone will say 'fuck off support the team' 'Dont tell me to fuck off' etc then it will kick off. Happened with Ranieri, Grant etc.

Shame when theres divisions between the fans

[diskoviolente 425]

Will be fisticuffs or at least heated verbals amongst Chels tomorrow.

Someone will say 'fuck of you fat cunt' to FSW then someone will say 'fuck off support the team' 'Dont tell me to fuck off' etc then it will kick off. Happened with Ranieri, Grant etc.

Shame when theres divisions between the fans

Unheard of !

[Fulham Broadway 17,319]

Unheard of !

Yeah but I am talking about nasty stuff that gets physical, not keyboard warriors having a bitch at each other