The Benitez Thread

[Corner 456]

  On 24/12/2012 at 02:18, Rmpr said:

No, you dont understand!

If you did understand, you wouldnt write some of the things you did and you would not try to convince them.

What you are trying to argue is that it is smarter and better for the team to get behind the manager (whoever he is). Well, let me tell you that the same people who boo Benitez know it. What I wasnt able to grasp at the begining (and now I do) is that the bashing is all about the heart, not the head. The criticism of Benitez is not solely on the way he downgraded us, it is greater than that. It is very loud way (the strongest they found) to demonstrate their upsetment and to make a very clear statement - that their feelings wont be treated like shit. The ultimate goal they have is to be able to have a voice in the decisions made by our Board, they want their wills to be (at least) taken into consideration. RDM sack and Rafa apoitment is only what ignited what have been some dispointments added all together (RDM, Torres, Benitez, Lampard, Cole, Drogba, Wilkins, Mourinho, etc). People just want to be sure we wont be treated like shit again.

Some will say it is radical and what they really want is to get rid of Roman, global exposure, expensive flops, etc. That they want to return being a traditional London club. I say this is bullshit!

Again, I am not is saying Benitez is the worst manager ever and he is the source of everything bad that happened, but he also is not the only reason for our latest results. I posted that if it was for him to lose CWC, why not let RDM have a chance and sack him after a possible failure? Also, I have made it very clear since he first signed that I will always hate him, but I admited he was the best available option and he has the credentials to possibly succeed. I think it is pretty possible to get behind the team, even accept he did a great job and still want him to fuck off.

You say you understand, but you quote me with some arguments I didnt use.

The point is I dont agree with the booing, I would never do such act and I do think they are harmful in some ways. However, I dont try to convince the ones that do it. I know it ruins the home atmosphere (for the players) and it makes it easier for the opposition, but if we achieve a bigger voice at the club, it will be all worth it.

I dont think you are less of a Chelsea fan, but you are not someone who fully experience it to get the sense of how shit treatment our club gives its fans really is. I am in no better position either, but I dont judge them.

That is my whole point, if you dont fully understand the ones who boo Rafa, dont get involved and dont criticize. I am not asking you to agree or to boo (I wont), just have some respect.

The difference is that I get why they do it and respect their opinion.

Okay, maybe we don't understand each other, so I'll just ignore the previous argument.

What makes you think I don't fully experience the treatment we get? Because I'm born in a different country. I have had the same upbringing as a lot of the fans booing, have lived in the same area and have supported Chelsea for as long as some also. You can't just make assumptions like that.

I'm not judging anyone mate. I understand why they feel like they do and I understand why they're making sure the Chelsea board know how they feel. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. I've never once shown any shred of disrespect towards those fans. If anything, I've done my best to understand why the feel like they do. Something the Chelsea board have not done.

How is that the difference between you and I? Of course I understand why they do it, and I respect their opinion. You can't just make assumptions about other people so quickly.

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 24/12/2012 at 02:53, Corner said:

Okay, maybe we don't understand each other, so I'll just ignore the previous argument.

What makes you think I don't fully experience the treatment we get? Because I'm born in a different country. I have had the same upbringing as a lot of the fans booing, have lived in the same area and have supported Chelsea for as long as some also. You can't just make assumptions like that.

I'm not judging anyone mate. I understand why they feel like they do and I understand why they're making sure the Chelsea board know how they feel. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. I've never once shown any shred of disrespect towards those fans. If anything, I've done my best to understand why the feel like they do. Something the Chelsea board have not done.

How is that the difference between you and I? Of course I understand why they do it, and I respect their opinion. You can't just make assumptions about other people so quickly.

Maybe you do respect and understand them, maybe I just got over the top with the discussion, I dont know!

One thing though...

You are confusing the cultural aspect I mentioned. I said that no abroad fan will fully have the same vision and feeling a British Londonist Chelsea Fan has. I have made very clear it does not make you a better fan, it just make you a different fan. For someone to trully experience it, you need to grow being a part of it. For isntance, only the ones who frequently go to the pubs on Fulham Road, travel with the team and participate and live Chelsea on a daily basis can grasp that sensation.

It happens with any culture, anywhere in the world. Another example, you will never understand Carioca`s way of life (Rio de Janeiro): Samba, Carnival, Beach, Footvolley, Feijoada on Saturdays, Favelas, Steakhouses, etc. You simply wont, you can learn as much as you want, you will only understand it once you live in that routine for a long time. Even I, who is a Brazilian and live close to Rio dont quite get it. That was all I said, you have to be part of the group to fully and trully understand how it feels and what it means.

I never meant to downgrade or disrespect you. I just want some people to be more sensible and less of warriors, that cant see that things are not black or white. Sorry!

Nonetheless, this conversation is getting off-topic, let just finish it here!

[Corner 456]

  On 24/12/2012 at 03:31, Rmpr said:

Maybe you do respect and understand them, maybe I just got over the top with the discussion, I dont know!

One thing though...

You are confusing the cultural aspect I mentioned. I said that no abroad fan will fully have the same vision and feeling a British Londonist Chelsea Fan has. I have made very clear it does not make you a better fan, it just make you a different fan. For someone to trully experience it, you need to grow being a part of it. For isntance, only the ones who frequently go to the pubs on Fulham Road, travel with the team and participate and live Chelsea on a daily basis can grasp that sensation.

It happens with any culture, anywhere in the world. Another example, you will never understand Carioca`s way of life (Rio de Janeiro): Samba, Carnival, Beach, Footvolley, Feijoada on Saturdays, Favelas, Steakhouses, etc. You simply wont, you can learn as much as you want, you will only understand it once you live in that routine for a long time. Even I, who is a Brazilian and live close to Rio dont quite get it. That was all I said, you have to be part of the group to fully and trully understand how it feels and what it means.

I never meant to downgrade or disrespect you. I just want some people to be more sensible and less of warriors, that cant see that things are not black or white. Sorry!

Nonetheless, this conversation is getting off-topic, let just finish it here!

Okay, you should have been clearer before. Now I know what you mean. Before, you mentioned nationality but you didn't say anything about the cultural aspect.

But no hard feelings and back on topic.

[Madmax 9,219]

Can't have it both ways, the team and the manager win or lose together. So, credit where it's due - well done yesterday, Benitez.

[didierforever 7,349]

there is absolutely no middle ground on this forum. 135 (fantastic and absolutely mind blowing) (45 against leeds and 90 against villa) minutes would have benitez almost crowned as the best manager ever while 135 horrendous minutes prior to that (45 against leeds and 90 against corianthians) had made most of us call for his head (i am one of those).

[Laylabelle 9,455]

He like the team to have the element of surprise lol..mega shite one week..mega good the next!

[Rupert 130]

  On 24/12/2012 at 01:28, Strike said:

still not entirely convinced that rafa should be an option to consider beyond this season.

The" Special One" is hanging on by the skin of his teeth at Reañ Madrid - jeered by 80% of the crowd, hated by many for the way he has stunk out the name of Real Madrid and what he has done to the clihg and losing badly to opponents. He has one one La Liga, Rafa won two when he was much younger with a much poorer team. Why would you want one and not the other?

[Strike 7,315]

  On 24/12/2012 at 14:59, Rupert said:

The" Special One" is hanging on by the skin of his teeth at Reañ Madrid - jeered by 80% of the crowd, hated by many for the way he has stunk out the name of Real Madrid and what he has done to the clihg and losing badly to opponents. He has one one La Liga, Rafa won two when he was much younger with a much poorer team. Why would you want one and not the other?

wtf? are you seriously saying that Rafael Benitez is a better option than Mourinho? MIND=BLOWN

[Strike 7,315]

Let me begin by saying, firstly, Mourinho took a Porto team to Champions League glory, then came to Chelsea and got us to be the best team in the league for 2 years and if it weren't for the Luis Garcia ghost goal or the 2007 shootout loss, we would have been within touching distance of a CL back then.

he went to Inter, got the players performing. Eto'o for Ibra + 56mil. what a masterstroke. Sneijder - world beater then. Got Cambiasso, Lucio etc dig deep and pull off Another Champions League win

Just because he's stuck with a Madrid team full of players who are not playing for the team, doesn't mean that he suddenly turned into a bad manager.

Compare him to Rafa and you've got a total mismatch. Plus, Rafa - never accepted by fans. Plus, Jose would get total control of transfers.Plus Rafa would just be a puppet strung by Gourlay and Emenalo. Plus, Mourinho will have the burning desire to win the CL at Chelsea. that'll keep him going.

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 24/12/2012 at 15:10, Strike said:

Let me begin by saying, firstly, Mourinho took a Porto team to Champions League glory, then came to Chelsea and got us to be the best team in the league for 2 years and if it weren't for the Luis Garcia ghost goal or the 2007 shootout loss, we would have been within touching distance of a CL back then.

he went to Inter, got the players performing. Eto'o for Ibra + 56mil. what a masterstroke. Sneijder - world beater then. Got Cambiasso, Lucio etc dig deep and pull off Another Champions League win

Just because he's stuck with a Madrid team full of players who are not playing for the team, doesn't mean that he suddenly turned into a bad manager.

Compare him to Rafa and you've got a total mismatch. Plus, Rafa - never accepted by fans. Plus, Jose would get total control of transfers.Plus Rafa would just be a puppet strung by Gourlay and Emenalo. Plus, Mourinho will have the burning desire to win the CL at Chelsea. that'll keep him going.

So, basically you just copied my post at Mourinho Topic.

  On 23/12/2012 at 15:19, Rmpr said:

Mourinho has way more credid at Porto, Inter and RM than what you are making.

At the begining with Porto, he had a great squad from the past manager (cant remeber the name but he was one of his mentors), but they had no belief. His man mangerment was superb!

At Inter, he got a squad who was only good for Italy and made them Champions of Europe. You must be thinking it is FIFA, because saying that he didnt build the 2010 squad is at least just wrong. Buying 3 of their most important players at that time, recovering others and convicing everyone to give their all isnt enough I guess. Mourinho made Eto'o defend (it is like asking Ibra to be polite), made Lucio stop his attacking adventures (the same ones Luiz has) and recovering Cambiasso are some of the improvements he brought. No wonder they went downhill (not only the team, but the players as well).

Chelsea was Jose's best ever job and I think we would have won it all if we didnt lose to Loserpool (ghost goal). He was excellent in every way. However, that doesnt mean he was not great at all of his other clubs.

At Real, he got a bunch of good players who hated each other and didnt care for anything more than indivudual success. He took a team that couldnt even beat Barcelona nor pass Round of 16 of UCL and transformed them into the second best team in the world. Again, it is much more than the tranfers itself. He will leave them light years ahead from what he received.

Building a squad is very very difficult, I think a top manager is as important as having top players. And Mourinho is a very top one.

If Jose and Pep go to Manchester, I very much fear for our future...

[Strike 7,315]

  On 24/12/2012 at 15:23, Rmpr said:

So, basically you just copied my post at Mourinho Topic.

yes. you basically made the point anyway. Rafa better than Jose? :D i had a good laugh reading that

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 24/12/2012 at 15:27, Strike said:

yes. you basically made the point anyway. Rafa better than Jose? :D i had a good laugh reading that

LOL

Rafa is a good coach, but nothing compared to Mourinho or other very top manager. Add to that the fact he is hated (for the right reasons) and Jose is worshiped, it makes a very uneven fight!

[Liquidator 5,176]

WE WANT YOU TO STAY

WE WANT YOU TO STAY

RAFA BENITEZ, WE WANT YOU TO STAY

[Changingman_2000 876]

I've changed my mind on Benitez. I called him a cunt last week, which was way wide of the mark.

He is, in fact, a complete and utter cunt.

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 24/12/2012 at 16:17, Changingman_2000 said:

I've changed my mind on Benitez. I called him a cunt last week, which was way wide of the mark.

He is, in fact, a complete and utter cunt.

Anything specific or just got into reality?

[Changingman_2000 876]

  On 24/12/2012 at 16:25, Rmpr said:

Anything specific or just got into reality?

Oh No, nothing specific. In general, broad terms, the man is a complete and utter cunt.

[Sheva. 5,373]

  On 24/12/2012 at 15:42, Rmpr said:

LOL

Rafa is a good coach, but nothing compared to Mourinho or other very top manager. Add to that the fact he is hated (for the right reasons) and Jose is worshiped, it makes a very uneven fight!

Nothing compared to Mourinho? the same person who's solely responsible for Mourinho not winning the CL while he was here? despite Jose having the far better team.

  On 24/12/2012 at 15:10, Strike said:

Let me begin by saying, firstly, Mourinho took a Porto team to Champions League glory, then came to Chelsea and got us to be the best team in the league for 2 years and if it weren't for the Luis Garcia ghost goal or the 2007 shootout loss, we would have been within touching distance of a CL back then.

he went to Inter, got the players performing. Eto'o for Ibra + 56mil. what a masterstroke. Sneijder - world beater then. Got Cambiasso, Lucio etc dig deep and pull off Another Champions League win

Just because he's stuck with a Madrid team full of players who are not playing for the team, doesn't mean that he suddenly turned into a bad manager.

Compare him to Rafa and you've got a total mismatch. Plus, Rafa - never accepted by fans. Plus, Jose would get total control of transfers.Plus Rafa would just be a puppet strung by Gourlay and Emenalo. Plus, Mourinho will have the burning desire to win the CL at Chelsea. that'll keep him going.

The Real Madrid part - they performed last season so why aren't they now? there's a lot of problems in the dressing room, and Mourinho only adds to it with his blaming and benching of players.

I wouldn't say he's a bad coach or anything like that, but he doesn't look so special at Madrid.

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 24/12/2012 at 16:31, Sheva. said:

Nothing compared to Mourinho? the same person who's solely responsible for Mourinho not winning the CL while he was here? despite Jose having the far better team.

Yes, nothing compared to Mourinho!

Just because he beat us in the semifinal (the other doesnt count as it was robbed), does not make him a better coach. Again, Rafa is a good manager, but not top class.