The Benitez Thread

[Rmpr 8,977]

http://www.pocket-li...helsea-ipad-app

Globall Coach is an excellent tool. My coach used Tacitical Pad (which is cheaper)...

[Tomo 21,733]

The thing with Rafa's past comments about us, is we have all said some pretty nasty things about him, something that we will have no hesitation in backtracking and trying to cover up ever saying if he delivers success.

Works both ways, reckon Ashley Cole or Ryan Bertrand never slagged us off as a youngsters supporting Arsenal? and can any one say they were big fans of Ash in his Gunners days too?

[Henrique 9,133]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/20477633

http://soccernet.esp...manager?cc=4716

http://www.dailymail...zes-sacked.html

http://www.onenewspa...p-Guardiola.htm

http://forums.liverp...o-manage-Brazil

Source? You should stop making rumours look like facts.

[Laylabelle 9,351]

Mail trying to make crap up with its headlines something like 'Rafa says Lampard/Cole' can go or something dramtic like that...when you actually read the article he says nothing of the sort all the board etc who have said.Kinda ahhhh just get things right!

[BlueLyon 9,359]

So this is likely to happen now;

1.) our defence will react better, we should have stronger defending. Not sure if we will concede less, but definately opponents will have less shots on our goal.

2.) as with every manager, some players will suit him more, some less. And way around, some players will be more happy with Rafa, some less. That will lead to the point that some young players we have, will play better, but some worse. I fear that Oscar will have trouble now...

3.) formation for now (and first 11) wont be changed (maybe after couple of games). But opponents will still have more difficulties what style we will play as Rafa can rotate more.

4.) More players will get the chance, but one-two probably wont play under Rafa, or very limited.

5.) Our style wont be as offensive and 'fancy'. More importance will be on organisation and defending, as well as efficiency. But fancy short passing wont be seen here anymore, or only on rare ocassions.

6.) Long balls, crossing, stronger possitioning, more movement, tactical awarness will increase.

7.) subs will be more reasonable.

8.) Torres will play lot.

9.) There will be one player (possibly in midfield) that Rafa will trust most and every action will go through him.

10.) Could see one player that will majorly underperform, despite great play so far. I fear it will be Oscar, who might be droped from first 11, and replaced with Moses, as he offers some strenght. Mata will stay as he is team playmaker

and Hazard as he is too 'expensive' to seat on bench.

11.) Mikel, Luiz will face restriced play. No more runs, dribbling etc. Or they will be dropped from team.

There we go, and about city game; I think we could win because Mancini has no clue how we will play. Either we will beat them tacticaly or Rafa's plan wont work and we will be destroyed.

[Tomo 21,733]

The on key element Rafa will bring is rotation, we have Fulham midweek after City, expect 6,7 or possibly 8 changes to the City side for that one.

[Hutcho 8,443]

So this is likely to happen now;

1.) our defence will react better, we should have stronger defending. Not sure if we will concede less, but definately opponents will have less shots on our goal.

2.) as with every manager, some players will suit him more, some less. And way around, some players will be more happy with Rafa, some less. That will lead to the point that some young players we have, will play better, but some worse. I fear that Oscar will have trouble now...

3.) formation for now (and first 11) wont be changed (maybe after couple of games). But opponents will still have more difficulties what style we will play as Rafa can rotate more.

4.) More players will get the chance, but one-two probably wont play under Rafa, or very limited.

5.) Our style wont be as offensive and 'fancy'. More importance will be on organisation and defending, as well as efficiency. But fancy short passing wont be seen here anymore, or only on rare ocassions.

6.) Long balls, crossing, stronger possitioning, more movement, tactical awarness will increase.

7.) subs will be more reasonable.

8.) Torres will play lot.

9.) There will be one player (possibly in midfield) that Rafa will trust most and every action will go through him.

10.) Could see one player that will majorly underperform, despite great play so far. I fear it will be Oscar, who might be droped from first 11, and replaced with Moses, as he offers some strenght. Mata will stay as he is team playmaker

and Hazard as he is too 'expensive' to seat on bench.

11.) Mikel, Luiz will face restriced play. No more runs, dribbling etc. Or they will be dropped from team.

There we go, and about city game; I think we could win because Mancini has no clue how we will play. Either we will beat them tacticaly or Rafa's plan wont work and we will be destroyed.

I agree with some, but definitely not all (in bold). I.e. fancy short passing comes from the players in game. The manager won't come in and just be like thats it no more. I think oscar is fine tbh, also it is a long season and having moses knocking on the door for a starting spot is a good thing. Which is also why i don't see that certain players won't get a look in. I think in our central midfiled most will go through rambo as he is our link, or whoever drops in i.e. mata, though it is more a game by game thing as opposed to rafa saying i choose you and that is that. I don't think hazard is too expensive to be dropped, i don't think he will, but that is because he does not deserve to be right now. Also i know he is spainsh but i highly doubt mikel will be dropped as the only one who can fill in is romeu who i don't think is his level yet.

Just my thoughts...

[super_frank8 186]

Lampard isn't the player he was in the past. I honestly don't know where he fits in this team going forward and I can't imagine he'll want to spend his time on the bench.

Cole is a different story. He could probably still do a job for a couple of seasons but the club don't want to set a precedent by going against their policy for players over the age of 30. He's irreplaceable.

I disagree with that entirely.

Of course Lampard isn't the same player he was 7 years ago, I'm not fool enough to believe that - but the fact remains that he is still one of the best goal-scoring midfielders in the world. & the cold hard reality many do not seem to recognise in their pursuit of this 'fountain of youth', is that we have missed him severely this season. Since JT got banned & Lamps got injured, we have managed to simultaneously self-implode & have capitulated in a truly shocking manner; to the point where we now find ourselves on the brink of frankly embarassing elimination in Europe, with an overgrown Spanish sewer rat for a manager. & if you can't admit that to yourself, then you clearly aren't watching the same games I have been.

Sure, you might say Lamps has lost some of his legs, I can admit that to an extent - but he's never been about pace - & he still undeniably has the same ability in just about every other aspect of his game. & sure he can't make the late 30 yard runs into the box every single attack the way that he used to, but in the current team he really doesn't need to, not when we are playing possession football & have so much movement provided by Mazcar to open up space. Where we really do miss him, where we really do need him, is in the middle of the park - dictating the play, conceiving the attack - he's the one who has always picked up the pieces for us time & time again & transformed defence into attack at the swipe or flick of a boot. The player who has the actual control & compsoure on the ball to wait until the perfect moment to release it, instead of instantly killing off a potential attacking opportunity with an overzealous misplaced pass as Mikel & Ramires have done far too many times of late. This is what we are missing the most right now, the link between our defenders & attackers - the true box-to-box playmaker that can pick out a pass from anywhere on the pitch & make a shooting opportunity count when it matters most.

In that respect, there really are few others who can perform at Lampards level. & if we are to truly implement this new style of attractive possession-based football successfully, then he is the key to providing the solidarity (as well as potency) in midfield that we simply do not get with Mikel & Ramires. Honestly, I'm perplexed at how you can believe he doesn't fit into this team, because we currently have a genuine passenger in Mikel, a player, who whilst decent defensively - provides absolutely nothing in an offensive sense such are the limitations of his ability & his mind-boggling proclivity to make extremely poor decisions at key moments of possession. & okay, yes he's not supposed to be particularly effective on the front foot as a defensive midfielder by trade, but for a player who is in a position that requires you to be a proverbial 'rock' if you do lack offensive prowess - I have certainly never heard of him being described as just that. He is definitely no Essien - let alone a Toure or Makelele. Even Ramires seems twice the defender he is at times...

So what exactly is his place in a side that wants to attack freely & not give away the ball cheaply? Because although he admittedly had a decent season last year when we were a far more defensive side, he doesn't really bring anything to the table in this new team - as far as I can tell, all he really does for the entire game is make a few good tackles & mostly arbitrary passes while strolling around in front of the back four; hesitant & inconsistent in possession, ignoring numerous runs from players ahead of him due to lack of vision/passing ability - & ultimately giving the ball away in the middle of the park where it is most dangerous to do so in his position. Even more distressing is his constant need to leave his foot hanging in tackles & give away cheap & potentially punishing free kicks outside the box. & then when he does venture forward, & even finds a scoring/creating opportunity, as he has done numerous times this season already - he ends up wasting it horribly & makes any kind of supposedly impressive progress he might have made entirely redundant. It really just doesn't work when you need someone who can actually find the feet of a player with a through ball, or at least get a shot on target & take adavantage when such a threatening position presents itself - & we all know Frank can do that at will.

That is why Lampard is essential to the team at the moment. Sure he can't play forever, I know that - but for now, in our current situation of dire circumstances & disrepute throughout the club, when we need solidarity & resolve as well as consistency & efficacy - the fact is that we need him more than ever.

Lampard's place is not on the bench, it is in the heart of the midfield - that is where he belongs. I mean seriously, do you not consider the potency of a Lampard-Ramires-Mata-Hazard-Oscar line up to be potentially one of the finest & most complete ever created, regardless of our misfiring striker? When you have a proven finisher who can make things happen even when our flair players are struggling to carve out clear cut opportunites & most importantly actually put them in the back of the net, it means that we at least have the ability to change things during the game when they aren't all going our way. & I don't think many have considered this, but there really is no one in the team, besides maybe Oscar, who can accurately & consistently play that long-range defence-splitting pass from a deeper position that Torres apparently requires to actually score a fucking goal.

As far as I can tell - Lampard is the solution - not the problem.

& as for Cole, he is still the best left back in the world in my eyes. It is rare to find him out of his depth in any situation & I can't even count just how many times he has made JT-esque last ditch goal line clearances to keep us in the game - an exemplary example of his commitment to the team - whilst Luiz watches from the edge of the box as he jogs back from the half way line. Furthermore, he is only 31 & has not lost his legs by any means. He does more than just 'a job' mate - he would walk into just any other team in the world at left back, almost never has a bad game, & always plays his heart out all the way to the 90th, & beyond.

Why is it that everyone seems so obsessed with this misguided notion of 'in with the new out with the old'? When you have just won the Champions League in such a glorious manner, it is not the time for spring cleaning. We really need to take a step back & start looking at the present, rather than solely focusing on the more distant future at the price of ignoring the current dilemmas we have. It's great & all to bring in young players to think ahead & take pre-emptive measures for future sucess - but I want to win trophies now - not be forced to use this pathetic excuse of 'transition' to offset poor results. Do we really want to become an upmarket version of those clowns at the Emirates? Striving for style & finesse - but ultimately failing to employ it effectively. We should use what we have in three of the most outstanding players of the last decade to our advantage NOW, while we are still fortunate enough to have them around. Lampard, JT, Cole - these players are not the obstacles to our 'new style' & the 'youthful future' of the team; they are the ones who have the experience & proven ability to AID the new players in maintaining success & integrating them into the team while we continue to work out the kinks in a revamped system. They are the ones who can actually provide the unwavering performance & solidarity that will allow the magic of the Mazcar trinity the freedom to flourish & keep us winning trophies until we have found genuine successors of true quality for the long-term.

Until then, it makes absolutely no sense to uproot the foundations of the greatest team in Chelsea history - all for the sake 'progression' & 'potential' - when the reality is that if we continue down this road we seem to be hellbent on going down - we are going to end up condemning ourselves to baron trophyless seasons that are only going to sink the club into further disrepute & make us the laughing stock of football.

Not that we haven't already achieved that title after the complete calamity of the last week...

[Leif 6,006]

I'm sure we've all read the list by now, but here's a summary of the best players Rafa signed for Liverpool and their prices. Some of these players I barely knew until they went to Liverpool:

Xabi Alonso: £10.5m (Absolute bargain)

Peter Crouch: £7m

Pepe Reina: £6m

Fabio Aurelio: Free

Kuyt: £9m

Agger: £5.8m

Arbeloa: £3m

Torres: £20m

Mascherano: £18m

Benayoun: £5m

Lucas: £6m

Skrtel: £6m

Johnson: £18m (lol)

Sterling: £600k (will rise to £5m)

Suso: Free

He signed some pretty dreadful players too though, but I'd rather not go into that!

He really can spot talent though; or maybe it was his scouts, who knows.

But players like Agger, Skrtel, Reina, Lucas (when he's not injured) and Johnson are still going strong while Mascherano, Alonso and Torres are now at the biggest clubs in the world.

Not bad, eh?

Maybe he sees Paulinho who he's apparently interested in as a Lucas-type player for us. Who knows. I've barely seen him.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

I agree with some, but definitely not all (in bold). I.e. fancy short passing comes from the players in game. The manager won't come in and just be like thats it no more. I think oscar is fine tbh, also it is a long season and having moses knocking on the door for a starting spot is a good thing. Which is also why i don't see that certain players won't get a look in. I think in our central midfiled most will go through rambo as he is our link, or whoever drops in i.e. mata, though it is more a game by game thing as opposed to rafa saying i choose you and that is that. I don't think hazard is too expensive to be dropped, i don't think he will, but that is because he does not deserve to be right now. Also i know he is spainsh but i highly doubt mikel will be dropped as the only one who can fill in is romeu who i don't think is his level yet.

Just my thoughts...

Danny and Romeu were great under Avb and invisible under Rdm, while Bertrand got more chances, as well Mikel,...

With new manager, one of current players will go downhill, while one will get better.

Its not like Oscar will be that guy, but its possibly. And with passing; well sure you cant take that from players nature, but could be change in style. Instead of quick passing, we might turn into counter attacking football with lot of long balls. But its all guessing, we should see first results by tomorrow.

And definately most important fact is tha Torres will now be our the best player

[The only place to be 11,313]

do you not consider the potency of a Lampard-Ramires-Mata-Hazard-Oscar line up to be potentially one of the finest & most complete ever created,

I'm wondering who tackles in that midfield. Who drops into defend (like Mikel does, and Busquets does at Barca) and picks up the ball.

I love Frank but when I've seen him play this season, the ball has actually slowed down when it gets to him. It's been fairly noticeable actually.

None of the problems we've had would have been solved by Lamps, in my opinion.

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

I'm wondering who tackles in that midfield. Who drops into defend (like Mikel does, and Busquets does at Barca) and picks up the ball.

I love Frank but when I've seen him play this season, the ball has actually slowed down when it gets to him. It's been fairly noticeable actually.

None of the problems we've had would have been solved by Lamps, in my opinion.

Can't be serious. It is ridiculously obvious that he is exactly the solution. Lamps is an experienced leader, world class finisher and legendary big match player, all that we have been missing, wasting 1000s of clear goalscoring chances, lacking head&heart and the ability to turn it on when it counts most. How did we win our trophies last season? Because we had a better coach, better tactics or more skilfull players, with tiki-taka and fancy trickery? No because our big, experienced players&leaders were at their best when it counted most, made no mistakes and used their fuckin opportunities. Without Lamps injury we would sit comfortably at the top of the epl and our cl group, cos there would have been a player who would have scored some of these 1000s of chances. In these times I would swap Oscar for Lamps every time.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Source? You should stop making rumours look like facts.

Pep is the Brazilian coach just like Redknapp was the English coach.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Can't be serious. It is ridiculously obvious that he is exactly the solution. Lamps is an experienced leader, world class finisher and legendary big match player, all that we have been missing, wasting 1000s of clear goalscoring chances, lacking head&heart and the ability to turn it on when it counts most. How did we win our trophies last season? Because we had a better coach, better tactics or more skilfull players, with tiki-taka and fancy trickery? No because our big, experienced players&leaders were at their best when it counted most, made no mistakes and used their fuckin opportunities. Without Lamps injury we would sit comfortably at the top of the epl and our cl group, cos there would have been a player who would have scored some of these 1000s of chances. In these times I would swap Oscar for Lamps every time.

Our biggest problem has been in defence in my opinion. I don't think he helps that problem. He may have chipped in with a couple of important goals, but Oscar has done a pretty good job of that in Europe.

I honestly don't know where he plays in the 4231.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Our biggest problem has been in defence in my opinion. I don't think he helps that problem. He may have chipped in with a couple of important goals, but Oscar has done a pretty good job of that in Europe.

I honestly don't know where he plays in the 4231.

Lmao saying Lampard has chipped in with a few important goals is the understatement of the century!!!

20 goals a season for 6 years was it?

Dude I normally agree with everything you say, but gotta pull that one up :)

[super_frank8 186]

I'm wondering who tackles in that midfield. Who drops into defend (like Mikel does, and Busquets does at Barca) and picks up the ball.

I love Frank but when I've seen him play this season, the ball has actually slowed down when it gets to him. It's been fairly noticeable actually.

None of the problems we've had would have been solved by Lamps, in my opinion.

Have Lampard & Ramires suddenly lost their ability to tackle??? They make just as many as Mikel does during a game when in a deeper position & give away a less fouls too. Ramires is an absolute beast at chasing back when he wants to, so with more discipline he can easily play in tandem with Lampard. If one pushes forward, the other sits back to cover - simple as that. It gives us far more options on the attack because they are both genuinely good with the ball, & doesn't really leave us any more vulnerable as long as they communicate properly & get back when they need to - which they are both pretty responsible with doing.

& have you actually watched Mikel throughout an entire game? More often than not - when he gets the ball, he is almost always hesitant unless there is an immediately obvious pass available for him, & far too many times he has rushed to move the ball on too quickly when it is unnecessary to do so & therefore picks the wrong pass - & this often results in surrendering possession either straight away through an easy interception or having put a teammate in a difficult position only to get tackled by the opposition. He's simply not intelligent, intuitive & effective enough on the ball to be the primary distributor from the middle of the park - nor is he skillful enough to actually carry the ball through the midfield himself. That is part of the point of a having a deeper lying midfielder, to keep the ball once he has received it & allow the right runs to be made, & then actually execute the pass itself once the play has unfolded. The problem with Mikel is that he doesn't see many of the runs being made around him - you have no idea how many times this season I have screamed at my TV out of utter desperation for him to spot Hazard or Oscar or Mata or Torres or Cole making a move in between the lines - but he inevitably never does & frustratingly instead, ironic to what you have said, slows down the play too much - & then the opportunity is already lost. If you had Lampard in the same position, sure he might hold onto the ball for a while - but more often than not he is going to see the pass & execute it to near perfection, that's just what he does. & at least you know he's not going to give it away cheaply - which Mikel does far too often for me to ignore.

& yes he is similar to Busquets in that he opts for a simple pass more often than not..but that holds up the play too much as well since you make that point. Lampard has variety to his passing, the key is that he smart enough to be able to pick out the not-so-obvious pass & good enough to carry the ball with him until it has opened up - which Mikel seems incapable of doing. & to be honest I don't really regard Busquets that highly as a player... He works in Barcas system because of the team around him, but we are not Barcelona & are never going to be unless Roman gives them the moon for Messi. They only have one deeper lying midfielder to break up play - the Makelele role if you like, which is the way that we used to play a few seasons ago when there was a clear segregation between the attacking midfielders/forwards & the holding midfielder/defenders.

But now we are playing a 4-2-3-1 & therefore the two players in the middle of the park really need to work in tandem with each other & be able to both attack & track back in order to be more effective - otherwise you're just wasting a place in the starting 11 with someone who doesn't provide any kind of threat going forward & barely prevents goals coming from the other way - which is the current case with Mikel. Look at Real Madrid as the model example - they have Alonso as the primary distributor, alongside any one of Modric/Khedira/Essien. All of these players can pass the ball, win the ball back decently enough & also push forward to score goals - just like Lampard & Ramires. As long as they remain disciplined, this allows the rest of the players in front of them freedom - as well as giving each of these central midfielders the opportunity to join the attack whenever they can whilst the other covers the gaps for him.

Mikel is equivalent to none of those players - he is atrociously indecisive & wasteful on the front foot - & honestly considering it is meant to be his actual specialised strong suit - just not consistent enough in the tackle & caught out of position far too often. The real problem is that this system encourages him to go forward now with so much space opening up thanks to the threat of Mazcar - but when he does get the ball in the final third, he seems to just suddenly freeze & ends up making the wrong choice, or simply skying or scuffing a shot that he never looked comfortable in taking, despite a genuine opportunity to put a strike on target from a potentially dangerous position. This is where we are missing Lampard's finishing & vision so much, because in those same positions that Mikel has inadvertently found himself in time & time again this season, Lamps would at least hit the target or have the guile & composure to draw out a blocker & spot the movement of a forward & play him in or spray it out to someone in space on the wings. We are really lacking the ability to change the dynamic of the play with pin-point long balls at the moment when it gets too congested, & there is no one better at doing that from midfield than Frank.

Ramires is a great physical presence in being ridiculously fast as well as possessing strength & balance that makes him hard to knock off the ball even in full flight, along with a massively valuable ability to chase breaking opposition down, & therefore provides the perfect complimentary contrast to Lampard's playmaking abilities. Defensively, I wouldn't say he is much worse than Mikel when it comes to marking & tackling effectively - pretty sure he gives away less fouls for the most part too. His real weaknesses are his shooting & passing from range, & that is why Lampard is needed in that partnership rather than Mikel - because it really is a bit silly to have two central midfielders who squander chance after chance to test the keeper when they're around the edge of the box, or simply hesitate & make an anxious decision due to being reluctant to take it on at all.

I guess none of us will ever know unless it is actually implemented for a continued period of time...but I believe that what we need is the playmaker in the middle of the park who can actually distribute the ball to all areas of the pitch, rather than just moving it along to the next guy - & more importantly - provide the goal scoring threat we have obviously been lacking this season.

[meetdoscar 335]

Lampard is an old man and oscar should be judged only after he has left the club(like drogba). Keep sucking the cock of our legends and we will never have new legends to enjoy. Same for rafa after RDM.

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

I'm wondering who tackles in that midfield. Who drops into defend (like Mikel does, and Busquets does at Barca) and picks up the ball.

I love Frank but when I've seen him play this season, the ball has actually slowed down when it gets to him. It's been fairly noticeable actually.

None of the problems we've had would have been solved by Lamps, in my opinion.

Our biggest problem has been in defence in my opinion. I don't think he helps that problem. He may have chipped in with a couple of important goals, but Oscar has done a pretty good job of that in Europe.

I honestly don't know where he plays in the 4231.

Which would have done the job. We did score only once against swansea, west brom and pool, 0 against juve, it's not that "a couple of important goals" would have made no difference. Also we wasted far more clear cut chances than we conceded goals in each of these games.

Btw i do not like debating with people who alterate their opinion during the debate in order to artificially elongate it. First you argue that Lamps would not have changed anything, then you relativize that into "would not helped our defensive problem" and in the end u got a problem with the position he would play in. That tactic is not only annoying for others it is also very inefficient cos u only weaken your stance every time. Get your opinion sorted out in the very beginning.