Oscar

[The Rising Sun 709]

Oscar is not going to do Neymar dribbles. Dont expect him to.

He has the ability to keep Pirlo quiet.

He is exceptional playing in small spaces, creating the sort of 1-2's that get you past opposition defences.

He needs to improve his crossing ability, which is something that you can even get better at when you are 30. No worries there.

As for a few people who were saying managers are not that important, its the players mostly, do you remember the Liverpool away game ? The City away game?

The manager has to assign systems and roles, and then its the players that must apply that on the pitch.

When our manager sent out 3 strikers in a few of the games mid season, risky move, and then we ended up winning in the late stages of the game.

You simply cannot discount a managers job of affecting the game, start to finish.

Back to topic.

It will be enjoyable to watch Oscar this season prove everyone wrong.

One average season does not make a player average.

He will come good.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I've defended him but it's unfair to call it a kneejerk reaction. Yes he kept Pirlo quiet (for 74 minutes) and scored two great goals...

on 19th September 2012!!

You can probably count the number of truly good games he's had on two hands. Southampton away on January 2nd was probably the last one. That's just not good enough, although he rarely neglects his defensive duties.

Of the six World Cup games, Oscar put in the type of performance you'd expect in maybe one (Croatia). Is one good game in six much different from what he's put up for us?

He needs to prove a hell of a lot next season, but even if he doesn't we can probably still make our money back and maybe a bit more.

[Barbara 15,149]

I've defended him but it's unfair to call it a kneejerk reaction. Yes he kept Pirlo quiet (for 74 minutes) and scored two great goals...

on 19th September 2012!!

You can probably count the number of truly good games he's had on two hands. Southampton away on January 2nd was probably the last one. That's just not good enough, although he rarely neglects his defensive duties.

Of the six World Cup games, Oscar put in the type of performance you'd expect in maybe one (Croatia). Is one good game in six much different from what he's put up for us?

He needs to prove a hell of a lot next season, but even if he doesn't we can probably still make our money back and maybe a bit more.

I think there are valid criticism and assessment and a lot of knee jerk reaction too.

Reducing his good games for us to 10 is at least better than 2-3 that I've read before, but I still think is an exaggeration. He had a great strike of months for us at the beginning of the season, we didn't play only 10 matches then.

He had a difficult season at age 22 - while is natural to criticize him for that and demand better next season and even call it 'make or break' for him here, some around here just completely trash him and already decided his whole career, at how mediocre, useless, bad, horrible, bla bla bla he will be. Those are knee jerk reactions. Reacting to his bad season is natural and expected, the lengths many go are unnecessary and too much.

Again, to analyze his form in the WC we should know what role he was asked to play by Scolari. Also if the WC is the referential, God help us with Cesc and Costa... or with Hazard, Oscar, Azpilicueta (he had a really bad match in one of Spain's) and everyone else whose name isn't Schürrle or Courtois. Those were the only Chelsea players that truly had a good WC imo (can't remember Cahill). Everyone else was either average or plain bad.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

I think there are valid criticism and assessment and a lot of knee jerk reaction too.

Reducing his good games for us to 10 is at least better than 2-3 that I've read before, but I still think is an exaggeration. He had a great strike of months for us at the beginning of the season, we didn't play only 10 matches then.

He had a difficult season at age 22 - while is natural to criticize him for that and demand better next season and even call it 'make or break' for him here, some around here just completely trash him and already decided his whole career, at how mediocre, useless, bad, horrible, bla bla bla he will be. Those are knee jerk reactions. Reacting to his bad season is natural and expected, the lengths many go are unnecessary and too much.

Again, to analyze his form in the WC we should know what role he was asked to play by Scolari. Also if the WC is the referential, God help us with Cesc and Costa... or with Hazard, Oscar, Azpilicueta (he had a really bad match in one of Spain's) and everyone else whose name isn't Schürrle or Courtois. Those were the only Chelsea players that truly had a good WC imo (can't remember Cahill). Everyone else was either average or plain bad.

I agree that we shouldn't judge any player only by his performance in the WC, but to be fair, Costa was after an injury, was new to the NT, was booed by the Brazilian fans, not to mention that Spain NT's style doesn't suit him at all; Cesc didn't look bad in the WC--he played only for half an hour and looked good, creating chances and making an assist. And I don't remember Azpi looking all that bad overall.

Anyway, I think Oscar is criticized not only for his form in the WC--Hazard was no better in that regard, and you're right that Scolari's tactics certainly didn't help Oscar--but Oscar hasn't looked good offensively for the club too in a very long time. So it's natural that people aren't optimistic considering Oscar's performance for the club and the NT. I hope he finds his form, but recovering from 1:7 won't be easy for any Brazilian player. We can only hope that it'll make him stronger rather than lessen his confidence.

[Styles 9,790]

I think there are valid criticism and assessment and a lot of knee jerk reaction too.

Reducing his good games for us to 10 is at least better than 2-3 that I've read before, but I still think is an exaggeration. He had a great strike of months for us at the beginning of the season, we didn't play only 10 matches then.

He had a difficult season at age 22 - while is natural to criticize him for that and demand better next season and even call it 'make or break' for him here, some around here just completely trash him and already decided his whole career, at how mediocre, useless, bad, horrible, bla bla bla he will be. Those are knee jerk reactions. Reacting to his bad season is natural and expected, the lengths many go are unnecessary and too much.

Again, to analyze his form in the WC we should know what role he was asked to play by Scolari. Also if the WC is the referential, God help us with Cesc and Costa... or with Hazard, Oscar, Azpilicueta (he had a really bad match in one of Spain's) and everyone else whose name isn't Schürrle or Courtois. Those were the only Chelsea players that truly had a good WC imo (can't remember Cahill). Everyone else was either average or plain bad.

What has the reaction been to Oscar in Brazil following the game?

[Thistle 77]

Lmao at people wanting Oscar sold. No idea.

[Barbara 15,149]

I agree that we shouldn't judge any player only by his performance in the WC, but to be fair, Costa was after an injury, was new to the NT, was booed by the Brazilian fans, not to mention that Spain NT's style doesn't suit him at all; Cesc didn't look bad in the WC--he played for half an hour and looked good, creating chances and making an assist. And I don't remember Azpi looking all that bad overall.

I think Oscar is criticized not only for his form in the WC--Hazard was no better in that regard, and you're right that Scolari's tactics certainly didn't help Oscar--but Oscar hasn't looked good offensively for the club too in a very long time. So it's natural that people aren't optimistic considering Oscar's performance for the club and the NT. I hope he finds his form, but recovering from 1:7 won't be easy for any Brazilian player. We can only hope that it'll make him stronger rather than lessen his confidence.

But one of the reasons WC can't be looked at is exactly because of physical issues. I was going to write that in my first post, but I tried to keep it short (you're new here, but me trying to keep posts short is a wonder in itself ). How can we evaluate players in a tournament after a whole season, with the top players in the world - meaning they played tons of minutes with their clubs? Some are battered, others recovering from injury, other are playing on high motivation and others are rested as they were subs for the clubs (and maybe even for the NTs).

Even Schurrle who had a great WC imo, I don't judge him for that. I think he's been better for us than for Germany in all honesty. My point was actually, WC shouldn't be used to define a player's quality. Some will excel there with the extra motivation of defending their countries. How many WC wonders have we witnessed? When I put Cesc and Costa there I just meant our confirmed new signings (I consider Costa confirmed, the guy's on vacation, he won't go to London or have people with him in the middle of nowhere in Brazil to run some medicals) didn't show much (Cesc barely had chances to start with).

I think you gathered my main point though: he should be criticized and we should demand much better from him, but there's a lot of exaggeration here. When played in the right position (something that didn't happen for Brazil), he can be awesome. I can't believe people forgot so easily what a start of a season he had. HE should get stick for the second half of the season, but there are so many things that can have affected him - the WC in his home country being one of them. I don't like when players neglect their clubs because of their NTs, after all it's their clubs that pay their wages, but sometimes they can't deal with everything involved. He's young and a WC in his country is something very emotional to any Brazilian player. He couldn't handle the anxiety imo, but I don't think he purposefully didn't give us his best so he'd save himself for the WC. He just couldn't handle it. His mistake, we paid for it, he should be blamed for it, but I can also understand what happened.

What has the reaction been to Oscar in Brazil following the game?

I haven't really been following the repercussions at this point anymore, but I haven't seen a lot of bad stuff towards him when I was. There was criticism about his role - but it was mostly on Scolari, although some pundits thought Oscar should continue to do his defensive contribution AND be a #10. I'm not sure if that's even attainable. I'm watching the season review as Choulo suggested - didn't know we had a link for download until now and I've been keeping an eye on him. I invite anyone here to look his positioning for Chelsea (I've just passed 30' mark) and for Brazil in the WC. It doesn't compare. He played as a pivot player in a coward approach by Felipão. And he's been poor - except for his tackling. Two true facts.

@CHOULO19, I followed your advice to watch the season review - not because of Oscar, but because I was dying to watch it. Thanks for that and, man, in all honesty, hopefully without any bias, but how can people watch what this boy did for 4 months and just decide he has no future here and some even saying nowhere else? There's too much quality and talent in the final third for him to a fluke. He may never reach his full potential, but the kid is good, all he needs is some damn consistency. Backheels, dribbles, amazing finishing, quick pass turned assist, quick reaction, good vision. Everything is there, he just needs to carry on.

[Special Juan 27,424]

@CHOULO19, I followed your advice to watch the season review - not because of Oscar, but because I was dying to watch it. Thanks for that and, man, in all honesty, hopefully without any bias, but how can people watch what this boy did for 4 months and just decide he has no future here and some even saying nowhere else? There's too much quality and talent in the final third for him to a fluke. He may never reach his full potential, but the kid is good, all he needs is some damn consistency. Backheels, dribbles, amazing finishing, quick pass turned assist, quick reaction, good vision. Everything is there, he just needs to carry on.

Because people are impatient Barbara, that's the long and short of it.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

@CHOULO19, I followed your advice to watch the season review - not because of Oscar, but because I was dying to watch it. Thanks for that and, man, in all honesty, hopefully without any bias, but how can people watch what this boy did for 4 months and just decide he has no future here and some even saying nowhere else? There's too much quality and talent in the final third for him to a fluke. He may never reach his full potential, but the kid is good, all he needs is some damn consistency. Backheels, dribbles, amazing finishing, quick pass turned assist, quick reaction, good vision. Everything is there, he just needs to carry on.

"For the fans, you're always as good as your last game." -Frank Lampard

[The Mak 4,459]

Hardly a knee-jerk reaction when some people like myself have been saying the similar things about him since he was dropped in place of Mata last September...and that was when he was in form!

(Edit)

Example:

There is a reason why Mata had more chances created, assists and goals than Oscar last season. There's also a reason why Oscar has always performed better in Europe; and that is because he needs more space and time on the ball.

I don't know why Mata should be punished because we have such a shitty pivot that we need the ATTACKING-midfielder to defend so much.

I'd love for Juan to get back to his best a.s.a.p. just so he can remind some people of what he's capable of, but sadly it doesn't look like he'll get a proper chance as CAM at this rate.

I also think this has turned into more of a debate because José is now the manager and some are afraid to question him.

etc.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

But one of the reasons WC can't be looked at is exactly because of physical issues. I was going to write that in my first post, but I tried to keep it short (you're new here, but me trying to keep posts short is a wonder in itself ). How can we evaluate players in a tournament after a whole season, with the top players in the world - meaning they played tons of minutes with their clubs? Some are battered, others recovering from injury, other are playing on high motivation and others are rested as they were subs for the clubs (and maybe even for the NTs).

Even Schurrle who had a great WC imo, I don't judge him for that. I think he's been better for us than for Germany in all honesty. My point was actually, WC shouldn't be used to define a player's quality. Some will excel there with the extra motivation of defending their countries. How many WC wonders have we witnessed?

I think you gathered my main point though: he should be criticized and we should demand much better from him, but there's a lot of exaggeration here.

Yep. During WCs people get hyped up too easily and drool all over the players they didn't even rate much before, demanding the club to buy the "next Zidane, Vieira, etc" for insane prices. I don't think Oscar was that bad, actually. I was actually more disappointed with Hazard in this WC than with Oscar.

That being said, Oscar has to step up and try to regain his form. If he doesn't, his place in the first team isn't guaranteed, since we have several players capable of playing #10.

P.S. Don't keep your posts short. Seriously.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Reducing his good games for us to 10 is at least better than 2-3 that I've read before, but I still think is an exaggeration. He had a great strike of months for us at the beginning of the season, we didn't play only 10 matches then.

I'm quite happy to go through all his truly good matches over the last couple of years if you want, but of the 100+ games I'd be surprised if you got many more than a dozen truly top performances.

That's not to say he hasn't had those matches. He helped transform the game against Southampton and scored the winner against Stoke (his only two great games in 2014 for us, maybe you could include the Arsenal match too) and he was our most important player up to maybe October (if I'm being generous).

But that was his second season and whilst Hazard progressed, Oscar actually fell into a slump. One of the main excuses offered was that he was saving himself for the World Cup, but now because he's been bang average in that the argument is that Scolari got his tactics wrong.

I know he's got a cute face and people just want to hug him and snuggle him and blow raspberries on his belly, but he is a man. The constant stream of excuses needs to end eventually and he needs to start actually performing on the pitch.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Because people are impatient Barbara, that's the long and short of it.

Which is completely untrue considering he's been he for two seasons, made over 100 appearances for us and actually regressed over the last six months.

In fact the supporters have been remarkably patient with him, just like they were with Torres for his first 100 or so games.

[Barbara 15,149]

I'm quite happy to go through all his truly good matches over the last couple of years if you want, but of the 100+ games I'd be surprised if you got many more than a dozen truly top performances.

That's not to say he hasn't had those matches. He helped transform the game against Southampton and scored the winner against Stoke (his only two great games in 2014 for us, maybe you could include the Arsenal match too) and he was our most important player up to maybe October (if I'm being generous).

But that was his second season and whilst Hazard progressed, Oscar actually fell into a slump. One of the main excuses offered was that he was saving himself for the World Cup, but now because he's been bang average in that the argument is that Scolari got his tactics wrong.

I know he's got a cute face and people just want to hug him and snuggle him and blow raspberries on his belly, but he is a man. The constant stream of excuses needs to end eventually and he needs to start actually performing on the pitch.

I liked your post just because of this.You made me choke in the middle of a coughing.

I agree with you that he shouldn't be excused from performing from now on, it's his complete dismissal that is exaggerated imo. Also he's very young, mate. He's been frustrating to no end, bad for real, but there's nothing that should lead us to believe he shouldn't be given another chance - as many implied here. If he's had a split season - half bad/half good (he wasn't out most of December as I thought, my memory failed me and he still played on a good level - not great), it means it was a 50/50 situation. The least I think we should give him is the benefit of the doubt. I just compared the Torres and the Ramires situation to his in the season review thread - maybe I'm being generous, hopeful, or just wishful thinking, but I don't think we can put a 22yo of his technical quality in the same bracket we put Torres and Ramires... but we can agree to disagree, after all, all those things are simply opinion.

I just feel sometimes reading this thread that some people seem eager to see him flop. He's been given excuses so far and I don't think new ones should be overlooked (and I can already predict two excuses: he's damn tired again, he's been battered emotionally by the 7x1 humiliation). But it's not our problem as a club if he's under those circumstances. We aren't a charity organization, if he can't pick up the pieces and start progressing again (I agree he stagnated or even regressed in his development), it's time we move on. But the chance needs to be given imo.

[Special Juan 27,424]

Which is completely untrue considering he's been he for two seasons, made over 100 appearances for us and actually regressed over the last six months.

In fact the supporters have been remarkably patient with him, just like they were with Torres for his first 100 or so games.

The constant stream of excuses needs to end eventually and he needs to start actually performing on the pitch.

Yes, and you are basically saying what I have for some time.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I can't believe people forgot so easily what a start of a season he had.

How many matches is that exactly? I'll be kind and include every match up to the loss away to Newcastle (even including Everton away where he barely featured and Spurs away where he was average)....that's 13 matches out of 47 appearances. Then there's the odd match after that where he actually did well.

Is that it? That's the start of the season we're talking about?

I just feel sometimes reading this thread that some people seem eager to see him flop. He's been given excuses so far and I don't think new ones should be overlooked (and I can already predict two excuses: he's damn tired again, he's been battered emotionally by the 7x1 humiliation). But it's not our problem as a club if he's under those circumstances. We aren't a charity organization, if he can't pick up the pieces and start progressing again (I agree he stagnated or even regressed in his development), it's time we move on. But the chance needs to be given imo.

He's had more chances than anyone else at this club. He was the number one choice in his position such that two of his main competitors were actually sold as the season went on. Mourinho said he was his number 10 and for a while he actually stepped up, but it was so frustrating watching him this year.

I've watched that performance against Southampton far too many times because I needed to reassure myself that he was actually capable of such things. I even got excited about his two phenomenal crosses in the Croatia game and the tackle that set up Neymar's goal....and that was it. That was the highlight of his World Cup.

I don't want him to fail, but if he does I couldn't give a fuck. We'll make our money back and move on. I just want to see him really man up and take control in that first game at Burnley, but the last image I saw of him wasn't a man. It was a little boy who looked like he'd had his heart ripped out and NOTHING I've ever seen of Oscar suggests he has the strength to come back from that.

[Barbara 15,149]

How many matches is that exactly? I'll be kind and include every match up to the loss away to Newcastle (even including Everton away where he barely featured and Spurs away where he was average)....that's 13 matches out of 47 appearances. Then there's the odd match after that where he actually did well.

Is that it? That's the start of the season we're talking about?

He's had more chances than anyone else at this club. He was the number one choice in his position such that two of his main competitors were actually sold as the season went on. Mourinho said he was his number 10 and for a while he actually stepped up, but it was so frustrating watching him this year.

I've watched that performance against Southampton far too many times because I needed to reassure myself that he was actually capable of such things. I even got excited about his two phenomenal crosses in the Croatia game and the tackle that set up Neymar's goal....and that was it. That was the highlight of his World Cup.

I don't want him to fail, but if he does I couldn't give a fuck. We'll make our money back and move on. I just want to see him really man up and take control in that first game at Burnley, but the last image I saw of him wasn't a man. It was a little boy who looked like he'd had his heart ripped out and NOTHING I've ever seen of Oscar suggests he has the strength to come back from that.

Mate, I'm a 'big fan' of yours around here, even nominated you for the British member of the year, but you've been a bit different since the WC started. First of all, I didn't mean you wanted him to fail, second of all, why should anyone give a fuck? I'm not even sure *I* would give a fuck. I care about Chelsea first and foremost. I've defended David Luiz even more fiercely around here and the moment he was gone I couldn't even wish him good luck for real because I don't like PSG. I move on from players as quick as I click the link of the club's announcement of their departure except in cases like Frank Lampard or Javier Zanetti - who are indeed club legends. That's the kind of thing I can't get over, but Oscar? As much as I love the kid, if he doesn't live up his potential my only sorrow will be not having made as much money with him as we could have if we take too long to sell and don't capitalize.

I don't get your sudden change tbh, and that's not only about Oscar - although it's somewhat very noticeable about him. When the season ended you didn't say half of the bad things you've said during the WC and really, I'm sure you're smart enough to know a WC shouldn't be taken into consideration in a player's career. If that's the case we need to sign new AMs asap because except Schurrle, Hazard, Oscar, Willian were far from impressive. You know WC form isn't to be taken into context. I don't need - or even want - to know why you changed so much, I just feel about it. Of course, I still respect your opinion - your entitled to have one - but something seemed to have hit a nerve with you or something. Hope you're back to what I consider normal soon - even when people were dismissing you for the way you approached English players or even the foreign fans, I didn't think it was a bad thing, just you being proud of your people or wanting to be. Nothing wrong with that - but I can't recognize you lately.

[Madmax 9,219]

I just feel sometimes reading this thread that some people seem eager to see him flop. He's been given excuses so far and I don't think new ones should be overlooked (and I can already predict two excuses: he's damn tired again, he's been battered emotionally by the 7x1 humiliation). But it's not our problem as a club if he's under those circumstances. We aren't a charity organization, if he can't pick up the pieces and start progressing again (I agree he stagnated or even regressed in his development), it's time we move on. But the chance needs to be given imo.

I get the exactly opposite feeling, that people are too lenient with what he gets away with, compared to say Ramires or Schurrle or Salah. We're still hearing the 'potential' and 'talent' argument (I don't entirely disagree, fwiw) but at some point it's got to translate to tangible performances consistently for it to be of any good to us. He will be given chances, of that I'm sure. Mourinho identified him as one of pillars for the coming season - and whatever people may think about Mourinho, it's unlikely he'd embellish in this stance - but he's at the juncture where him being given opportunities has to be earned on the pitch.