🇧🇪 Eden Hazard

[akgw13 867]

1 minute ago, Unionjack said:

See what does my head in is HE DOES have that ability - which he has shown - to be direct, cut inside and to shoot. And I love him when he does that even if it doesn't come off. But more often instead he passes it back to someone on the edge or outside the box to shoot.  But hes scored some cracking goals and I'm at a loss as to why he goes missing so often. Its got to be some character / attitude problem.

I don't know if its an attitude problem, Hazard has shown himself to be inherently unselfish. He seems like a genuinely nice person and wants to involve his teammates and play beautiful football. He thinks that if someone else has even a sliver of a better chance he will make the proper football play and move it along. The issue is he has so much more talent we all just want him to have a go rather than leave it to someone else even if its the technically proper play. Its an interesting dilemma, one i personally hope Sarri(if he comes) can help with. I selfishly sit here and dream about Insigne pre and now & imagine all the hypothetical optimistic best case scenarios for Hazard. It is hypothetical time  after such a shit year, so I'll choose to live inside my optimistic head for a little while haha

[Tomo 21,751]

53 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

ut I'm looking at him with an unpassionate eye and Ive realized hes just a dribbler and offers us hardly anything else.

He's only carried us on numerous occasions, stepped up during title races while others were flaking harder than a lightweight on an all nighter, literally been our sole attacking threat at times.

I swear no other fans try and downplay there best players like this, your talking about him like he's Adel Taarabt

[Unionjack 7,532]

10 minutes ago, Tomo said:

He's only carried us on numerous occasions, stepped up during title races while others were flaking harder than a lightweight on an all nighter, literally been our sole attacking threat at times.

I swear no other fans try and downplay there best players like this, your talking about him like he's Adel Taarabt

You only read what you want it seems. You go blind to the good things I say about him. But hey oh. Cant have conversations with some peeps.

17 minutes ago, akgw13 said:

I don't know if its an attitude problem, Hazard has shown himself to be inherently unselfish. He seems like a genuinely nice person and wants to involve his teammates and play beautiful football. He thinks that if someone else has even a sliver of a better chance he will make the proper football play and move it along. The issue is he has so much more talent we all just want him to have a go rather than leave it to someone else even if its the technically proper play. Its an interesting dilemma, one i personally hope Sarri(if he comes) can help with. I selfishly sit here and dream about Insigne pre and now & imagine all the hypothetical optimistic best case scenarios for Hazard. It is hypothetical time  after such a shit year, so I'll choose to live inside my optimistic head for a little while haha

I agree mate. Nothing I would love better tham seeing him as the best in the world.

[The Skipper 20,609]

1 hour ago, Unionjack said:

Mate I totally understand your love of him but just try looking at him without rose tinted blinkers on and think about his bad qualities and what he offers the team.

I think I was quite right when I made my post about him. A player who I like. A player Ive watched and has excited me at times and I have argued with peeps who have been much less patiant than I am.

But I'm looking at him with an unpassionate eye and Ive realized hes just a dribbler and offers us hardly anything else.

We really do need a proper number 10 mate

Hazard literally carried us (offensively) to two titles... if you can’t see past the fact that the system is cancerous right now and that that’s affecting almost everyone’s general ability then I don’t know. I’m not really a Hazard fanboy, I just appreciate his talent. He’s one of the most talented attackers in the world. Why would you want to get rid of that instead of adding to it? He isn’t a number 10 either, he’s a wide playmaker. You should have a look at how many chances he’s set up for guys like Morata and Willian this season - he should have way more assists. This is just one example of how he’s way more than just a dribbler. If you think Hazard offers “nothing but dribbles” to the side then I don’t know man, don’t think it’s worth arguing. We’ll just agree to disagree pal. 

When it comes to first 11 players and ability, Hazard is the least of our problems. It’s our failure to surround him with top players/system that actually allows him to maximise his talent that’s caused all this. 

Edit:

Chances created isn’t a great stat but it gives you some sort of overall picture... take a look at this:

Most chances created from open play since 14/15: 
Hazard - 324
Ozil - 293
Eriksen- 285
Sanchez - 272

Assists since 14/15:
Ozil - 41
Eriksen - 40
Sanchez - 28
Hazard - 21

Now, you really can’t say Hazard just dribbles. 

[Unionjack 7,532]

6 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Hazard literally carried us (offensively) to two titles... if you can’t see past the fact that the system is cancerous right now and that that’s affecting almost everyone’s general ability then I don’t know. I’m not really a Hazard fanboy, I just appreciate his talent. He’s one of the most talented attackers in the world. Why would you want to get rid of that instead of adding to it? He isn’t a number 10 either, he’s a wide playmaker. You should have a look at how many chances he’s set up for guys like Morata and Willian this season - he should have way more assists. If you think Hazard offers “nothing but dribbles” to the side then I don’t know man, don’t think it’s worth arguing. We’ll just agree to disagree pal. 

When it comes to first 11 players and ability, Hazard is the least of our problems. It’s our failure to surround him with top players/system that actually allows him to maximise his talent that’s caused all this. 

While I agree with alot of what you say if it was the only season Eden goes for these missing phases it wouldm't be noticed or matter so much

And of course hes not our biggest problem and never even entered my head and I see him as one of the main reasoms other good players might want to come here.

What I'm saying is Im at a complete loss as to why the fuck he cant come out onto the pitch with that cheeky grin and a speing in his step MORE OFTEN instead of looking like his dog died!

I dunno. MAYBE its because hes had some words with Conte he doesnt like? Or hes been asked to play some part he doesnt like? Who knows. But that Eden (the top 3) that roams around wherever they feel they can do best IMO is the best way to play him. Defenders are at a loss then on just who/what/when/where they will pop up next.

I love the guy but alot of times during the years Ive just wanted MORE!

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

20 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

While I agree with alot of what you say if it was the only season Eden goes for these missing phases it wouldm't be noticed or matter so much

And of course hes not our biggest problem and never even entered my head and I see him as one of the main reasoms other good players might want to come here.

What I'm saying is Im at a complete loss as to why the fuck he cant come out onto the pitch with that cheeky grin and a speing in his step MORE OFTEN instead of looking like his dog died!

I dunno. MAYBE its because hes had some words with Conte he doesnt like? Or hes been asked to play some part he doesnt like? Who knows. But that Eden (the top 3) that roams around wherever they feel they can do best IMO is the best way to play him. Defenders are at a loss then on just who/what/when/where they will pop up next.

I love the guy but alot of times during the years Ive just wanted MORE!

You have to start looking at the level of the team and the absurdly negative tactics of our managers before looking at an individual player especially one like Hazard. Hazard was doing just fine before Cunte started with his insane experiments, switching "false 9" and back and forth and then there was the shit show in the Etihad when Hazard was humilated by his manager. A player is only as good as his environment regardless of how good that player is. We can't expect 2014/15 second half of the season miracles from Hazard when our managers continue to be extremely negative and our board fails to sign top class attacking players.  

[Tomo 21,751]

40 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

You only read what you want it seems. You go blind to the good things I say about him. But hey oh. Cant have conversations with some peeps.

Not atall, i just think the criticism towards hazard is truly ridiculous and saying he offers nothing but dribbling is ridiculously harsh. He has played in pragmatic Chelsea sides, is doubled up on because teams know the other players aren't half the threat he is, repeatedly fouled yet just gets on with it and repeatedly delivers the goods. Almost every game he's top of all the positive attacking stats, even in the games he supposedly "disappears". I have never in my life seen as many myth's created about someone as what is with Hazard, from apparently not doing enough to the bizarre notion he has a bad attitude, it's bad enough opposition fans keep on at them.

If you are basing his consistency around what he's like at his very very best then yes he's inconsistent, using the same yardstick even Pele would be inconsistent. But basing consistency in general he is about as consistent as it's possible to get. 

[oldportblue 547]

hazard is already an absolute legend for us, instead of criticizing him for when the whole team is shambolic and the manager it seems has downed tools all season, let's support him and hope the club's surrounds him with a system, manager and players where he can truly flourish. Right now it seems we are not only not helping but putting him an environment that is set up against him (super defensive manager, no consistently top class striker to link up with, being constantly played out of position even though he is our best player etc) and despite all this, he still loves Chelsea and has hinted numerous times recently that he wants to stay.

I really hope we get rid of Conte, bring in a manager that will get the best of Hazard, get a top class striker he can play off of (or maybe Morata will adjust better next season if he stays and become that striker) and just generally put him in a position where he can succeed easier (a world class wing player would help too)

[Tomo 21,751]

13 minutes ago, oldportblue said:

hazard is already an absolute legend for us, instead of criticizing him for when the whole team is shambolic and the manager it seems has downed tools all season, let's support him and hope the club's surrounds him with a system, manager and players where he can truly flourish. Right now it seems we are not only not helping but putting him an environment that is set up against him (super defensive manager, no consistently top class striker to link up with, being constantly played out of position even though he is our best player etc) and despite all this, he still loves Chelsea and has hinted numerous times recently that he wants to stay.

I really hope we get rid of Conte, bring in a manager that will get the best of Hazard, get a top class striker he can play off of (or maybe Morata will adjust better next season if he stays and become that striker) and just generally put him in a position where he can succeed easier (a world class wing player would help too)

He's literally been swimming against a tide for most of his time here.

Him being as good as he has been for us is the equivalent of a defender being a defensive rock for Brendan Rodgers Liverpool, Arsenal of this decade, Peter Bosz's Dortmund or Kevin Keegan Newcastle, something the "he doesn't do enough" brigade don't seem to realize!!!!!!!

[oldportblue 547]

Just now, Tomo said:

He's literally been swimming against a tide for most of his time here.

Him being as good as he has been for us is the equivalent of a defender being a defensive rock for a Brendan Rodgers or Kevin Keegan side, something the "he doesn't do enough" brigade don't seem to realize!!!!!!!

exactly, that's a great analogy

[Unionjack 7,532]

I think my problem is my memory.

I remember the games when he has carried the team seemingly on his own. Like someone that leads by example. Like I want all of the lads to play like. Watching him in those games as a Blue you get that rush of excitement and makes you think its all gonna be OK

So when I see the Eden whos got his hands on his hips, chin dragging and not seeming to care I remember the games where he was amazing and wonder if hes got a multiple personality disorder. (tongue in cheek)

Just remember that Sunderland game 13/14 season. The geezer was fuckin amazing! All I want is for HIM to remenver them too at times.

 

 

[pHaRaOn 2,131]

Hazard will need to change his game massively and finally start contributing to defensive phase of the game much more under managers like Guardiola or Sarri, because they wouldn't accept his half-assed approach. Attacking players under those coaches should press all the time and try to take ball away from the opponent all the time, which Hazard doesn't do.

Guardiola uses Sane and Sarri uses Insigne in same positions where Hazard hypothetically would play for them.

So, Sane this season: 34 tackles and 16 interception; Insigne: 29 tackles and 25 interceptions; Hazard: 8 tackles and 4 interceptions. Or look at Bernardo Silva, who played 1000 minutes less than Hazard: 37 tackles and 15 interceptions.

Or you can look at Mane at Liverpool: 44 tackles and 16 interceptions. Or Son at Tottenham: 24 tackles and 10 interceptions. Or Rony Lopes at Monaco under Jardim: 58 (!) tackles and 19 interceptions. Or Marco Asensio at Real: 30 tackles and 12 interceptions.

People think that life is paradise for an attacking players under those coaches, but that's far from the truth. Being great attacking player is not enough anymore.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

2 hours ago, pHaRaOn said:

Hazard will need to change his game massively and finally start contributing to defensive phase of the game much more under managers like Guardiola or Sarri, because they wouldn't accept his half-assed approach. Attacking players under those coaches should press all the time and try to take ball away from the opponent all the time, which Hazard doesn't do.

Guardiola uses Sane and Sarri uses Insigne in same positions where Hazard hypothetically would play for them.

So, Sane this season: 34 tackles and 16 interception; Insigne: 29 tackles and 25 interceptions; Hazard: 8 tackles and 4 interceptions. Or look at Bernardo Silva, who played 1000 minutes less than Hazard: 37 tackles and 15 interceptions.

Or you can look at Mane at Liverpool: 44 tackles and 16 interceptions. Or Son at Tottenham: 24 tackles and 10 interceptions. Or Rony Lopes at Monaco under Jardim: 58 (!) tackles and 19 interceptions. Or Marco Asensio at Real: 30 tackles and 12 interceptions.

People think that life is paradise for an attacking players under those coaches, but that's far from the truth. Being great attacking player is not enough anymore.

Yeah but partly thats because they defend as a team and attack as a team. 

Here, you see Kante doing 4 man job because Eden, Morata, Cesc and Willian often stop giving a shit. 

In a perfect world, Eden would do the tracking back but he would also get support in attack by the players like Modric/Silva, Marcelo/Ghoulam,...

We lack such quality players, but even if we had them, we still have to change our style. 

Im not sure what Conte is thinking, but his juve was team with everyone tracking back and working as a team. Here he either changed the approach and made us very defensive and reactive instead of proactive: or the players simply dont give a shit about his instructions.

Anyway you are right about Eden and he should do more tracking back, but its fair to point out that despite he isnt realy efficient, Eden is often the only player on this team that actualy wants to attack and play football. I remember many games this season, he was trying to make something, but everyone else just stood back and didnt get involved in attack. 

That said, anyone who thinks selling Eden is good idea is, pardon my words fucking idiot. People thought the same about replacing Costa, but Eden is even more important. We just splashed 150m on Morata, Drinks and Bakayoko. Let that sink it. Even if we get alot of money for Eden, the club wont bring quality replacements. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by BlueLyon

[Unionjack 7,532]

3 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

his juve was team with everyone tracking back and working as a team. Here he either changed the approach and made us very defensive and reactive instead of proactive: or the players simply dont give a shit about his instructions.

OR they dont have those qualiries in them to be able to do it so hes had to work with what hes got?

We dont get the chance to see how they train. Who knows they might get it drilled into them then come game time they do it all their normal way.  Thats why you always hear and see him shouting to Eden instructions??

[BlueLyon 9,359]

2 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

OR they dont have those qualiries in them to be able to do it so hes had to work with what hes got?

We dont get the chance to see how they train. Who knows they might get it drilled into them then come game time they do it all their normal way.  Thats why you always hear and see him shouting to Eden instructions??

I dont know what happend but what I know is Conte turned into one of those pragmatic, small balls managers who play it safe. 

Emerson was playing great, Alonso comes back from ban and Emerson doesnt get a sniff anymore. OR, playing 5:3:2 which shown some of the worst offensive displays I have seen in long time. We already suck, but he decides to pull out Willian/Pedro for another defensive midfielder...when we play 3:4:3, the attack is never fluid and disorganized, lacks creativity. 

Cmon, I only accept such tactics if there are results, but we failed in so many games and yet, he still insists on them. 

There might also be player power, either way we are piss poor under Conte since 2018. 

Either way, we could play better football and still get these results. 

I supported Chelsea for ages and I understood why we play that way, but when there is no results, no one will accept watching defensive football.

[Unionjack 7,532]

2 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

I dont know what happend but what I know is Conte turned into one of those pragmatic, small balls managers who play it safe. 

Emerson was playing great, Alonso comes back from ban and Emerson doesnt get a sniff anymore. OR, playing 5:3:2 which shown some of the worst offensive displays I have seen in long time. We already suck, but he decides to pull out Willian/Pedro for another defensive midfielder...when we play 3:4:3, the attack is never fluid and disorganized, lacks creativity. 

Cmon, I only accept such tactics if there are results, but we failed in so many games and yet, he still insists on them. 

There might also be player power, either way we are piss poor under Conte since 2018. 

Either way, we could play better football and still get these results. 

I supported Chelsea for ages and I understood why we play that way, but when there is no results, no one will accept watching defensive football.

We played it under Mou tho too.

Weird cause Emerson was crap too. Even Dave. It was the worse team ffort Ive seen for ages. You would think one of the players or their big gob family members would ley something slip about whats going on but Ive seen no rumours or gossip about it.

[The Skipper 20,609]

11 hours ago, Mana said:

He is slowly damaging the club. Just because he's still here right now doesn't mean he isn't. If he does not want to stay, let the club (and the next manager) start planning on a rebuild not around Hazard. The earlier, the better.

Sign the bloody thing otherwise go. I don't want an Alexis thing happening in Chelsea.

When next season starts, the media will be talking about the future of Hazard and Madrid. In fact, they are already talking about it now. 

Or you know, we could just keep Eden and also improve the team together? Eden isn’t holding the club to hostage at all... this is a strange narrative to have imo. I mean, the club could just sell him you know? You should criticise the club for not selling him, not Eden... The board have that power don’t they? You don’t want an Alexis situation to happen but how did that happen? Arsenal weren’t challenging for serious trophies. You should look beyond Hazard, there are far bigger problems. Hazard’s woes are a symptom, not the cause. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

3 hours ago, Mana said:

I personally think anyone who wants Eden to stay without him signing the contract is even more of a fucking idiot.

Shows they are putting a player higher than the club. They also cannot see the potential damage Hazard can do in our rebuild. We rebuild with the new coach/manager around Hazard only for him to leave 2 years later. Then we have to rebuild again. With less money.

I don't care how valuable Hazard is to us. The fact that he's playing around with us is pathetic. Yes, I know he has clowns surrounding him and wants better players. So send a clear message to the board. And if they don't grant your demands, leave ASAP! Or sign da ting, and show you are willing to stay loyal to us even though we are going through a terrible time!

I know this will be upsetting for all of us Chelsea (especially the Hazard-fanatic) fans. But Hazard leaving now is much freaking better than Hazard leaving at the end of his contract. No fucking question about it.

Hmm, Im not so sure about that.

Courtois should be sold this summer if he doesnt extend, no doubt.

But Hazard? His role at club is simply too big right now. We need to bring players that can replace him and within two years, they get the mantle and Eden leaves if that is the case. The transition is easy.

If you do this now, when we already are average team bar Eden, Kante, Azpi, you think we can compete with big teams? Because we cant stay without CL two times in row.

We already have the cash to buy 3 quality players, there is no doubt about it. The board ability and our attraction are other things. If we sell Eden, surely attraction goes evn lower.

Keeping Eden for next two years, while periodicaly buying around 2-3 players each summer window, will give us enough power for next season and new players fitting in the team. After two years, they take some of workload and losing Eden wont be that hard, even on free. 

I just dont trust board can replace Eden, because money was never the problem and we are buying average players for years now with one or two exceptions.

People just dont see past the money, do they. Sell the guy because he will give us 150m...two years of great performances by Eden are worth more than those 150m.

I agree with you though, we need to rebuild the team, be it with Eden or without. Going two more seasons with Eden and not improving and then losing him for free with no players to take mantle from him will be a disaster. But as long we get proper players over next two years, I dont care if Eden leaves on free. His role at the club was huge, there would be no hard feelings.

[Unionjack 7,532]

3 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

I dont care if Eden leaves on free. His role at the club was huge, there would be no hard feelings.

Sod that for a lark mate!

?You honestly think Roman would pass up whatever money we could get for him rather than let him do one for bugger all? Not a blinkin chance.

If hes mucking us about with 2 seasons left then hes gotta go anyway no matter ho did it. We have said the same things about players who have done it at other clubs. Why is he different?

YES I agree he could be a deciding factor for other players maybe joining usbut it would set a precedent. If Chelsea and £300k a week cant keep him then sod him.

But if we could us him in some like for like swap I dont think we would miss him

[BlueLyon 9,359]

7 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

Sod that for a lark mate!

?You honestly think Roman would pass up whatever money we could get for him rather than let him do one for bugger all? Not a blinkin chance.

If hes mucking us about with 2 seasons left then hes gotta go anyway no matter ho did it. We have said the same things about players who have done it at other clubs. Why is he different?

YES I agree he could be a deciding factor for other players maybe joining usbut it would set a precedent. If Chelsea and £300k a week cant keep him then sod him.

But if we could us him in some like for like swap I dont think we would miss him

And who says players like Griezmann, Dybala, Asensio, Isco,...would even want to join us, never mind stay here to build a new era? Chelsea shown little ambition under Eden, doubt it will change now. And if it will, Eden will be told about it before he gets sold and it might persue him to extend.

When we talk like for like replacements for Eden, we dont have pull power, project, or quality to get them. Even if we get the likes of Asensio they would fuck of to Real as soon as they would get a call. 

Sure, we might sell Eden and buy Fekir and Bailey, but the club has no clue how to get that done. We would probably buy Martial instead who is a lazy and tacticaly inept, we would be even worse than this season.

49 minutes ago, Mana said:

Did I say he is the main cause? No, I didn't say he is the main reason why we are in this mess. But he's not helping the situation at all.

I'm not saying he's keeping the club hostage as the club can sell him this summer, but at the moment he is not signing the contract. When next season starts, we would have to worry about Hazard's future even more with the club, and the valuable for him majorly decreases. 

In the last 2 out of 3 seasons, we haven't been challenging for the league and will not be playing CL football. One trophy won (so far) by Chelsea in the last 3 seasons. That's almost as bad. So yes, the Alexis thing can happen especially next season if we aren't challenging again.

He's not signing the contract because he wants to see if Chelsea is a sinking ship and bail out quickly. This summer is probably the last summer that clubs will pay big money for Hazard. After that, and him not signing, we get less money from him and less money to rebuild.

Hazard isn't God. We won games without Hazard. Granted, I agree will be weaker without him.

But what if Hazard wants to leave to Madrid now? Then this dream transition goes tits up. He's definitely looking at Madrid and if Madrid wants him this summer, they may get him. This is what happens when a player doesn't sign the contract. Clubs like Madrid will be wondering "why hasn't he signed it? maybe he's looking for a new challenge!" and attracting them.

Two years of great performances from Hazard will be worth than £150m, I agree...

But it's absolutely no guarantee we would get that at all. He has been poor this season. The Newcastle game summed it up. 

The thing is, I don't know if Hazard truly loves this club to bits. In the last 3 years, I've seen more worse Hazard performances than great ones. He needs to take way more games by the scruff of the neck.

Listen, I don't want Hazard to leave...if he signs da ting I'll gladly back off. But I personally think the guy that plays a "massive role" for our club...is waiting for Madrid to call him. 

I like Eden, but dont get me wrong, I like club more. Back when we sold Robben, I didnt like it, but I knew we will find replacements. Today, I think we have to keep Eden at all costs because we cant get good players. Honestly I think Eden will extend eventualy. 

The problem is on board because we need good players regardless and we did awful job past three windows, bar Kante.