🇧🇪 Eden Hazard

[robsblubot 3,595]

7 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Someone who can't appreciate a proper baller like Hazard, doesn't understand the game of football and isn't worth talking to, so bye.

Who says I don't appreciate him? It's just that you talk about him as the best player in the world, which he clearly isn't. His valuation in football does not match your, and some here, rating (of him). What's the difference between him and Messi? Make it simpler, Eden and Ronaldo? Eden is *better* on the ball, and yet Ronaldo is the better player... because this is a game about scoring goals.

Heh it doesn't work like that... You don't get to get the last word by decree.  When you are done with someone, simply don't reply to her posts, and preferably add her to the ignore list. You seem to get annoyed by any criticism on Hazard, so please do use your ignore list - that's what it's for.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

1 minute ago, Robguima said:

Who says I don't appreciate him? It's just that you talk about him as the best player in the world, which he clearly isn't. His valuation in football does not match your, and some here, rating (of him). What's the difference between him and Messi? Make it simpler, Eden and Ronaldo? Eden is *better* on the ball, and yet Ronaldo is the better player... because this is a game about scoring goals.

Heh it doesn't work like that... You don't get to get the last word by decree.  When you are done with someone, simply don't reply to her posts, and preferably add her to the ignore list. You seem to get annoyed by any criticism on Hazard, so please do use your ignore list - that's what it's for.

Nice straw man argument never said he was the best player in the world also even if i had still a big difference between that and labeling Hazard as "just a dribbler" and before you try and weasel your way out you didn't say it outright but you're clearly implying it.

I'm trying not to reply but you're making it hard because you keep posting such stupid things. If and when i put people on my ignore list i'll decide thanks for the suggestion though very thoughtfull. I try to give people plenty of chances  you are making it very hard though.

Quick question you think Ronaldo would have scored as many goals as he did if it weren't for him having a supporting cast with quality creators like Modric, Kroos, Marcelo overlapping, Benzema also supporting him ? (The answer is no by the way.)

To be clear not trying to say that Ronaldo isn't a superior scorer then Hazard. What i'm getting at is that creativity is just as important as scoring goals because it works hand in hand with each other. If you want to be a succesfull team you need a good balance between creative players and goalscorers. Hazard is a tremendous creator, labeling him as anything less and yeah i am going to respond to that. 

[Tautvix 1,321]

Hazard is a top player but he definitely doesn't have good end product... It's clear.

If he had it he would be CR7 and Messi level.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

2 minutes ago, Tautvix said:

Hazard is a top player but he definitely doesn't have good end product... It's clear.

If he had it he would be CR7 and Messi level.

End product doesn't mean just goals and assists. Hazard creates a sh*t ton of chances. Not his fault they get missed all the time. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

52 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Nice straw man argument never said he was the best player in the world also even if i had still a big difference between that and labeling Hazard as "just a dribbler" and before you try and weasel your way out you didn't say it outright but you're clearly implying it.

I'm trying not to reply but you're making it hard because you keep posting such stupid things. If and when i put people on my ignore list i'll decide thanks for the suggestion though very thoughtfull. I try to give people plenty of chances  you are making it very hard though.

Quick question you think Ronaldo would have scored as many goals as he did if it weren't for him having a supporting cast with quality creators like Modric, Kroos, Marcelo overlapping, Benzema also supporting him ? (The answer is no by the way.)

To be clear not trying to say that Ronaldo isn't a superior scorer then Hazard. What i'm getting at is that creativity is just as important as scoring goals because it works hand in hand with each other. If you want to be a succesfull team you need a good balance between creative players and goalscorers. Hazard is a tremendous creator, labeling him as anything less and yeah i am going to respond to that. 

Thanks for the chances you are giving me as well as the condescending tone - much appreciated.

Hazard is more than a dribbler, otherwise Douglas Costa would have the same valuation. And yet Hazard is the more important player, because he does, on many occasions, directly influence the game by scoring and assisting (D.Costa does not as much). My criticism of Hazard is not that he does not do those things (goals and assists), but that he does not do those things as often as other players who happen to have higher valuation in football (causation implied). So, what you call stupid arguments, I merely call reality based on the valuation of the players being discussed.

Hazard is low on assists... don't know where you get all these chances he creates from. Doesn't he have fewer assists than Willian in the league?

Yes. Ronaldo does not seem to have any problem scoring plenty of goals for Portugal, but it's really not about the number of goals. Portugal which I consider a mediocre team (far less quality than Hazard has around for both Belgium and Chelsea). You've just implied (strongly) that Ronaldo is not better than Hazard, which is exactly where we disagree (and I am far from a CR fan).

 

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

47 minutes ago, Robguima said:

Thanks for the chances you are giving me as well as the condescending tone - much appreciated.

Hazard is more than a dribbler, otherwise Doublas Costa would have the same valuation that Hazard has. And yet Hazard is the more important player, because he does, on many occasions, directly influence the game by scoring and assisting (D.Costa does not as much). My criticism of Hazard is not that he does not do those things (goals and assists), but that he does not do those things as often as other players who happen to have higher valuation in football (causation implied). So, what you call stupid arguments, I merely call reality based on the valuation of the players being discussed.

Yes. Ronaldo does not seem to have any problem scoring plenty of goals for Portugal, but it's really not about the number of goals. Portugal which I consider a mediocre team (far less quality than Hazard has around for both Belgium and Chelsea). You've just implied (strongly) that Ronaldo is not better than Hazard, which is exactly where we disagree (and I am far from a CR fan).

 

You're welcome maybe next time don't reply to me with fanboy and Hazard FC crap and i might drop the condescension. 

 

You're moving the goalposts now aren't you. Now suddenly Hazard is more then a dribbler even though you posted 2 twitter idiots stating Hazard was just a dribbler. 

Hazard influences games even without scoring or assisting and that's what you fail to understand. If Hazard goes past 2 players and then draws 3 more towards him that's 5 players tht aren't able to mark anyone else.

Hazard opens up space for other players by going past players and attracting other players towards him.  

In the Belgium game none of our attacking players were playing at a good enough level to take advantage of the space but that's on them not Hazard.

 

Another straw man argument. How have i implied that ? I even specifically stated that Ronaldo is a superior goalscorer to Hazard. 

 I even clearly stated my point being that creativity and goalscoring go hand in hand and that one isn't superior to the other and that success means striking a balance between the 2. (+ ofcourse some form of defensive stability mixed in)

 

Edit: Also on where i put Hazard vs Ronaldo. It's dificult. Overall career Ronaldo wins no doubt. Currently it's difficult because Ronaldo last season showed 2 faces. First half of the season he was really awful. Poor performances and worse not even a lot of goals. Second half he was great primarily in the CL although he also raised his performances in the league. Coming up big. I'd put Ronaldo ahead of Hazard becaue of his CL performances last season but it's anyone's guess which Ronaldo is going to show up at Juventus next season. 

Also Ronaldo's season last season is also a good example why just focusing on goals and assists is a bad way to go. 

15 goals, 3 assists  in the CL and 26 goals and 5 assists in the league looks great but his poor form in the first half of the season was the biggest reason why Madrid were out of the title race by december. 

[Stats 7,142]

Can't actually believe what I am seeing some people write on here. Hazard can improve, but we have a genuine top world class player on our team who has been a shining light in this World Cup. Like just truly baffled how after his performances in the last few games, people are actually trying to blame him. He was excellent against Brazil and was the only player who actually looked good against France. Hurts my eyes what I see people come out with sometimes, it genuinely does.

[robsblubot 3,595]

32 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

You're welcome maybe next time don't reply to me with fanboy and Hazard FC crap and i might drop the condescension. 

 

You're moving the goalposts now aren't you. Now suddenly Hazard is more then a dribbler even though you posted 2 twitter idiots stating Hazard was just a dribbler. 

Hazard influences games even without scoring or assisting and that's what you fail to understand. If Hazard goes past 2 players and then draws 3 more towards him that's 5 players tht aren't able to mark anyone else.

Hazard opens up space for other players by going past players and attracting other players towards him.  

In the Belgium game none of our attacking players were playing at a good enough level to take advantage of the space but that's on them not Hazard.

 

Another straw man argument. How have i implied that ? I even specifically stated that Ronaldo is a superior goalscorer to Hazard. 

 I even clearly stated my point being that creativity and goalscoring go hand in hand and that one isn't superior to the other and that success means striking a balance between the 2. (+ ofcourse some form of defensive stability mixed in)

 

Edit: Also on where i put Hazard vs Ronaldo. It's dificult. Overall career Ronaldo wins no doubt. Currently it's difficult because Ronaldo last season showed 2 faces. First half of the season he was really awful. Poor performances and worse not even a lot of goals. Second half he was great primarily in the CL although he also raised his performances in the league. Coming up big. I'd put Ronaldo ahead of Hazard becaue of his CL performances last season but it's anyone's guess which Ronaldo is going to show up at Juventus next season. 

Also Ronaldo's season last season is also a good example why just focusing on goals and assists is a bad way to go. 

15 goals, 3 assists  in the CL and 26 goals and 5 assists in the league looks great but his poor form in the first half of the season was the biggest reason why Madrid were out of the title race by december. 

But you are (hazard fan) aren’t you? Hazard or Chelsea first dare I ask? 

either way, the dribbling argument is the craziest thing I’ve read around here tbh. Like your changing reality to make hazard look better... :). The definition of a fan.

And yet it does not happen does it? The players remain in position track back and mark zone.

did not see France lose their shape despise edens dribbling. Or the game for the matter. 

And yet one looks at the number of assists by hazard and they are very low. Especially in key games. 

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

45 minutes ago, Robguima said:

But you are (hazard fan) aren’t you? Hazard or Chelsea first dare I ask? 

either way, the dribbling argument is the craziest thing I’ve read around here tbh. Like your changing reality to make hazard look better... :). The definition of a fan.

And yet it does not happen does it? The players remain in position track back and mark zone.

did not see France lose their shape despise edens dribbling. Or the game for the matter. 

And yet one looks at the number of assists by hazard and they are very low. Especially in key games. 

Followed Chelsea before Hazard was a Chelsea player, to be fair wasn't as active as i am now but that also has a lot to do with me only starting to really love watching football at a later age.

Changing reality lol. 

 

Wow really. Okay off the top of my head. Willian skied over after a pull back from Hazard against Atletico, Fabregas couldn't sort out his feet against Atletico, Fabregas missed after Hazard back heeled it against Arsenal while dropping 3 Arsenal players to the floor, 

Hazard put Willian 1 on 1 against the goalkeeper against West Ham, Giroud in one of his first starts missed after a short corner where Hazard found him inside the box with a free shot at goal, Giroud's shot saved on the line when Hazard passed it to Giroud, 

Morata missed several great opportunities with Hazard putting him in great positions, Hazard put Drinkwater in 1 on 1 with Mignolet against Liverpool. 

Going after Hazard's assist count is just weak as f*ck man. Not his fault playrs couldn't finish. I'm sure there's more but these are the ones i could think of right now. 

Hazard could have easily had 10 more assists added to his name if our team was a bit more clinical. 

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

3 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

Followed Chelsea before Hazard was a Chelsea player, to be fair wasn't as active as i am now but that also has a lot to do with me only starting to really love watching football at a later age.

Changing reality lol. 

 

Wow really. Okay off the top of my head. Willian skied over after a pull back from Hazard against Atletico, Fabregas couldn't sort out his feet against Atletico, Fabregas missed after Hazard back heeled it against Arsenal while dropping 3 Arsenal players to the floor, 

Hazard put Willian 1 on 1 against the goalkeeper against West Ham, Giroud in one of his first starts missed after a short corner where Hazard found him inside the box with a free shot at goal, Giroud's shot saved on the line when Hazard passed it to Giroud, 

Morata missed several great opportunities with Hazard putting him in great positions, Hazard put Drinkwater in 1 on 1 with Mignolet against Liverpool. 

Going after Hazard's assist count is just weak as f*ck man. Not his fault playrs couldn't finish. I'm sure there's more but these are the ones i could think of right now. 

Hazard could have easily had 10 more assists added to his name if our team was a bit more clinical. 

If memory serves, my whole argument in this very same thread was that Eden's influence in the game is more subtle than of say KDB's, especially for Belgium. And I remember a very similar story in last WC.

By subtle I mean that yes, movement, and dribbling *MAY* cause problems and open up spaces, but they also may not. It did NOT cause too many problems to France as they kept their shape despite all that dribbling from Eden (however many take ons). Dribbling is also less effective in tougher matches - can attest to that being Brazilian and having watched several world cups with many types of players.

There are assists and creating chances... Assist tally is important because it infers the quality of the chance created, although they also depend (as you point out) on the quality of the finisher and players around. However, Hazard is low on chances created too, once again, for the player he is/his tier. Regardless whether the chances turn into goals or not, he does not create enough chances nor is he consistent enough creating them, esp in tough games. He just does not put players in front of the goal often enough for me.

IMO his goal tally is less of a "problem" (just something he lacks) than his passing in the final third.

First it was chelsea that lacked quality around hazard. Now apparently belgium lacks quality too, but one thing is certain: it's never on hazard as he is immune to criticism.

[Henrique 9,133]

On 11/07/2018 at 0:21 AM, Unionjack said:

I really dont understand RM going for Eden. He will sell them allot of shirts and advertizing but with their goal machine leaving who will they use now? It makes much more sense in them buying Mr potato head or Salah.

Who the fuck is Mr potato head?

[Alabama 1,992]

2 minutes ago, Henrique said:

Who the fuck is Mr potato head?

Neymar 

[Henrique 9,133]

4 hours ago, Stats said:

Can't actually believe what I am seeing some people write on here. Hazard can improve, but we have a genuine top world class player on our team who has been a shining light in this World Cup. Like just truly baffled how after his performances in the last few games, people are actually trying to blame him. He was excellent against Brazil and was the only player who actually looked good against France. Hurts my eyes what I see people come out with sometimes, it genuinely does.

Hazard won't improve. Hazard is a very good player, but this is probably what he is about. He is world class, definetely, but will never be the kind of player that we probably expected he would be one day. I mean, Hazard won't ever be the best player in the world. He has been a Chelsea player for the past 6 years. Do you remeber a GREAT performance from Hazard in a big UCL match? We are talking about 5 editions of UCL.

Hazard is already 27 years old.  6 or 4 years ago he was 21/23. So the excuses that he was still a "kid" was okay back then. Right now, not anymore. 

To be honest I would choose Lampard and Drogba over Hazard easily. 

[Unionjack 7,531]

1 hour ago, Henrique said:

Who the fuck is Mr potato head?

Well work it out. lol

He plays for Spuds and has a head shaped like a potato

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

1 hour ago, Henrique said:

Hazard won't improve. Hazard is a very good player, but this is probably what he is about. He is world class, definetely, but will never be the kind of player that we probably expected he would be one day. I mean, Hazard won't ever be the best player in the world. He has been a Chelsea player for the past 6 years. Do you remeber a GREAT performance from Hazard in a big UCL match? We are talking about 5 editions of UCL.

Hazard is already 27 years old.  6 or 4 years ago he was 21/23. So the excuses that he was still a "kid" was okay back then. Right now, not anymore. 

To be honest I would choose Lampard and Drogba over Hazard easily. 

Hazard has arguably been the best player at the World Cup which is the most prestigious competition in the world far more prestigious than the CL and unlike the Champions league, Hazard is on a team that isnt defending for 90 mins. You're back with your attention seeking bullshit again

[Unionjack 7,531]

4 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Hazard has arguably been the best player at the World Cup which is the most prestigious competition in the world far more prestigious than the CL and unlike the Champions league, Hazard is on a team that isnt defending for 90 mins. You're back with your attention seeking bullshit again

But with RM losing one of the best goal scorers there are its daft them replacing them with Eden who is not a top goal scorer No matter what group of players you put him with or where you play him.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

7 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

But with RM losing one of the best goal scorers there are its daft them replacing them with Eden who is not a top goal scorer No matter what group of players you put him with or where you play him.

True but no one can replace Ronaldo's goalscoring.  You can't always make like for like signings. Neymar is going nowhere and the chances of Madrid signing Mbappe is less than 0 percent. The most realistic avenue for Madrid has to be Hazard whether we like it or not. Hazard and a number 9 like Icardi to replace Benzema. Kane will be very difficult for them as well. He's even more difficult to sign than Hazard at this point. 

[Unionjack 7,531]

1 minute ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

True but no one can replace Ronaldo's goalscoring.  You can't always make like for like signings. Neymar is going nowhere and the chances of Madrid signing Mbappe is less than 0 percent. The most realistic avenue for Madrid has to be Hazard whether we like it or not. Hazard and a number 9 like Icardi to replace Benzema. Kane will be very difficult for them as well. He's even more difficult to sign than Hazard at this point. 

I think the whole Eden to RM move is strange personally.

Apart from not being the rop goal scorer they need I find it stranger with ZZ leaving APPARENTLY because of the simple fact Perez wouldn't sign Eden. Perez doesn't strike me as someone who would admit he was wrong so I dont know how he will explain it and what ZZ will have to say IF it comes about.

[Panic 57]

6 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

True but no one can replace Ronaldo's goalscoring.  You can't always make like for like signings. Neymar is going nowhere and the chances of Madrid signing Mbappe is less than 0 percent. The most realistic avenue for Madrid has to be Hazard whether we like it or not. Hazard and a number 9 like Icardi to replace Benzema. Kane will be very difficult for them as well. He's even more difficult to sign than Hazard at this point. 

I think you make some very good points, but there are several things to consider. First, the club are not in a position where they would even consider an offer. We just came off a disappointing(to say the least) season, and with only one month left for the transfer window, finding a replacement could prove difficult. Second, while Eden has openly stated his admiration for Madrid, he has also openly stated his willingness to continue with Chelsea. As of now, it doesn't seem as if Eden will make the moves necessary to force a transfer. Third, I don't think Hazard has the profile Madrid are looking for as a replacement for Ronaldo. Eden is nothing like Ronaldo, both on and off the pitch. Lastly, Eden has two years left on his contract. Madrid need a major signing now and they can't play the "we'll sign him on a free in a few months if you don't sell now" game, so unless a move had been in the works prior to Ronaldo's move to Juventus, I don't see Madrid making a major push for Hazard.

In all likely-hood, Madrid have already secured Ronaldo's replacement as it would have not made much sense to sell him without a replacement lined up. We will find out very soon who that target is, but I think if it was Eden, we would have heard many stories about the transfer within the past two weeks or so, just as we did when Neymar left for PSG. At this point It's all guesswork, though.

[manpe 10,861]

Hazard will return to find Sarri and Jorginho waiting for him, followed by Higuain, Golovin, Rugani and will decide to stay