Politics & Stuff

[Fernando 6,585]

I could have trolled you and asked to write out all the prophecies like you once did with me in the Israel/palestine debate. I decided to be the better man. So no, thank you. Prophecies are hit and miss, like fortune telling. Because of our innate confirmation bias, we grasp on those that turn out true(mostly highly interpreteren and debatable). However, it is pure chance.

On the roots of Christianity: history of religion. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism , i cant be bugged to translate my research into english right now so this is just a introductory source.

It didnt just magically start at the birth of Jesus. There is even a LOT of debate on who the historical Jesus actually was. All the sources of his life date from decades after his death. What does rigorous historical research teach us?

1) there is not one strictly historical source on Jesus. None. Secondary sources barely mention him. Flavius Josephus mentions Jacobus "the brother of Jezus", but no further reference. Philo van Alexandrië, a contemporary of Jezus who knew Palestina goed well, doesn't mention him.

If he existed, which i can believe, he wasn't well known.

2) We have writings of Christian authors, but none of them knew Jesus himself. The oldest sources are the original letters Paulus (Paul) wrote between 50-60. After that the evangelies(i dont know the english word tbh) but they are written at least 40 years after Jesus died. The oldest (Marcus or Marc) is the shortest and spawned both Mattheus and Johannes ( i guess John in English). However those two are highly contradictory about the childhood of Jesus. All of them refer more to the mythical Jesus, which in light of Judaism, sounds more like an attempt to seperate from Judaism as a cult. Very succesfull btw, but is it true?

There isn't a single shred of evidence in ANY source. Weird for the son of God isn't it?

Now, i respect your beliefs. But that is just what they are, beliefs. No more. You have no claim whatsoever on truth. None. Just beliefs.

Like I said the truth is Prophecy.

There's a lot of religion out there but few can predict the future from the past.

I see your already skeptical about Jesus so no point in talking about the Prophecy that Jesus fulfilled.

But I'm sure you can't negate the Prophecy that was fulfilled with Israel. Those was written thousands of years ago, and no nation in the history of mankind has done something like that. Been disburse from their nation and come back after two thousand years.

If you don't believe in that then if I tell you the future Prophecy of the rapture of the church the seven peace year treaty between a world leader and Israel you still will not believe if you see it happened.

[Stingray 9,441]

Like I said the truth is Prophecy.

There's a lot of religion out there but few can predict the future from the past.

I see your already skeptical about Jesus so no point in talking about the Prophecy that Jesus fulfilled.

But I'm sure you can't negate the Prophecy that was fulfilled with Israel. Those was written thousands of years ago, and no nation in the history of mankind has done something like that. Been disburse from their nation and come back after two thousand years.

If you don't believe in that then if I tell you the future Prophecy of the rapture of the church the seven peace year treaty between a world leader and Israel you still will not believe if you see it happened.

Explain please, what is that prophecy?

[Fernando 6,585]

Explain please, what is that prophecy?

Israel Prophecy?

Okay will write some stuff here.

First the bible says that as long as there is a sun and moon, the Jewish people will continue to exist as a specific people. Even during the 1816 year dispersion (Israel seize to be a nation in AD 132), they have remained an identifiable ethnic group and are now a nation once again (AD 1948 Israel Reborn).

Note that the nation of Israel was dispersed before as well. For the first in 606 BC by the Babylonians. There are several prophecies about Israel's return from the "land of the north," which was their return from Babylon in 536 BC. After this first return to their land, they where dispersed again by the Romans for 1,816 years (AD 132 to AD 1948). This return from all nations, or from the four corners of the earth, is referred to as the second return by Isaiah the prophet.

Isaiah 11: 11-12

11In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving remnant of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush,^b from Elam, from Babylonia,^c from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean.

12He will raise a banner for the nations

and gather the exiles of Israel;

he will assemble the scattered people of Judah

from the four quarters of the earth.

Other passages that talk about the return from "all nations"

Isaiah 43: 5-7

Jeremiah 16: 14-15; 23:8; 24:6; 29:14; 30:3,10-11; 31:1; 32:37-38; 33:7

Ezekiel 28:25; 34:11-12

Zecharia 10:6

Notice that there is no mention of a third return to the land. In fact, the prophet Amos says that after this second return, Israel will never be dispersed again. Jeremiah 24:6 also records this.

Amos 9:15

15I will plant Israel in their own land,

never again to be uprooted

from the land I have given them,”

Now that we have that settled lets look at the following prophecies that deal with the return from all nations, the second return, so we know the fulfillment occur sometime after AD 1948.

The prophets predicted the second return would begin with Great Britain bringing the Jewish people back to their ancient homeland by ship. This took place during the first half of the twentieth century. The ancient name of England/Great Britain was Tarshish.

Isiah 60:9

9Surely the islands look to me;

in the lead are the ships of Tarshish,^a

bringing your children from afar,

with their silver and gold,

to the honor of the Lord your God,

the Holy One of Israel,

for he has endowed you with splendor.

I could write about the role the British had in bringing back Israel but I would assume you know this....

Hosea prophecy how the Jewish people will return as one nation, not two

Hosea 1:10-11

10“Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘children of the living God.’ 11The people of Judah and the people of Israel will come together; they will appoint one leader and will come up out of the land, for great will be the day of Jezreel.^c

When the United Nations made the decree, the nation of Israel, which did not exist a moment before, become a sovereign nation. Thus Israel was born in a single day

Isaiah 66:8

8Who has ever heard of such things?

Who has ever seen things like this?

Can a country be born in a day

or a nation be brought forth in a moment?

Yet no sooner is Zion in labor

than she gives birth to her children.

Isaiah prophesied the Israeli flag will have the symbol of the root of Jesse, or King David's star, on it. Jesse was the father of King David. The crest, or symbol, of his household was the six pointed star. Today this is knows as the Star of David. The Star of David is the symbol for the nation of Israel and is the symbol on the modern Israeli flag.

Isaiah 11:10

10In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious

The restored nation of Israel would be placed back in its old land, not resettled somewhere else. Jeremiah and Ezekiel foretold this in Jeremiah 30:3; Jeremiah 16:15; and Ezekiel 37.

Jeremiah 30:3

3The days are coming,’ declares the Lord, ‘when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity^a and restore them to the land I gave their ancestors to possess,’ says the Lord.”

Okay I will stop here.

This are but a few of the biblical prophecies that was fulfilled with Israel.

The bible is filled with prophecies, it's actually made up one third of prophecy. And why is this?

Well it's simple, it's to prove that some higher being can do this.

As it is written:

Isaiah 44:6-8

6“This is what the Lord says—

Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty:

I am the first and I am the last;

apart from me there is no God.

7Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.

Let him declare and lay out before me

what has happened since I established my ancient people,

and what is yet to come—

yes, let them foretell what will come.

8Do not tremble, do not be afraid.

Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?

You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?

No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”

[Stingray 9,441]

Israel Prophecy?

Okay will write some stuff here.

First the bible says that as long as there is a sun and moon, the Jewish people will continue to exist as a specific people. Even during the 1816 year dispersion (Israel seize to be a nation in AD 132), they have remained an identifiable ethnic group and are now a nation once again (AD 1948 Israel Reborn).

Note that the nation of Israel was dispersed before as well. For the first in 606 BC by the Babylonians. There are several prophecies about Israel's return from the "land of the north," which was their return from Babylon in 536 BC. After this first return to their land, they where dispersed again by the Romans for 1,816 years (AD 132 to AD 1948). This return from all nations, or from the four corners of the earth, is referred to as the second return by Isaiah the prophet.

Isaiah 11: 11-12

11In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving remnant of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush,^b from Elam, from Babylonia,^c from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean.

12He will raise a banner for the nations

and gather the exiles of Israel;

he will assemble the scattered people of Judah

from the four quarters of the earth.

Other passages that talk about the return from "all nations"

Isaiah 43: 5-7

Jeremiah 16: 14-15; 23:8; 24:6; 29:14; 30:3,10-11; 31:1; 32:37-38; 33:7

Ezekiel 28:25; 34:11-12

Zecharia 10:6

Notice that there is no mention of a third return to the land. In fact, the prophet Amos says that after this second return, Israel will never be dispersed again. Jeremiah 24:6 also records this.

Amos 9:15

15I will plant Israel in their own land,

never again to be uprooted

from the land I have given them,”

Now that we have that settled lets look at the following prophecies that deal with the return from all nations, the second return, so we know the fulfillment occur sometime after AD 1948.

The prophets predicted the second return would begin with Great Britain bringing the Jewish people back to their ancient homeland by ship. This took place during the first half of the twentieth century. The ancient name of England/Great Britain was Tarshish.

Isiah 60:9

9Surely the islands look to me;

in the lead are the ships of Tarshish,^a

bringing your children from afar,

with their silver and gold,

to the honor of the Lord your God,

the Holy One of Israel,

for he has endowed you with splendor.

I could write about the role the British had in bringing back Israel but I would assume you know this....

Hosea prophecy how the Jewish people will return as one nation, not two

Hosea 1:10-11

10“Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘children of the living God.’ 11The people of Judah and the people of Israel will come together; they will appoint one leader and will come up out of the land, for great will be the day of Jezreel.^c

When the United Nations made the decree, the nation of Israel, which did not exist a moment before, become a sovereign nation. Thus Israel was born in a single day

Isaiah 66:8

8Who has ever heard of such things?

Who has ever seen things like this?

Can a country be born in a day

or a nation be brought forth in a moment?

Yet no sooner is Zion in labor

than she gives birth to her children.

Isaiah prophesied the Israeli flag will have the symbol of the root of Jesse, or King David's star, on it. Jesse was the father of King David. The crest, or symbol, of his household was the six pointed star. Today this is knows as the Star of David. The Star of David is the symbol for the nation of Israel and is the symbol on the modern Israeli flag.

Isaiah 11:10

10In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious

The restored nation of Israel would be placed back in its old land, not resettled somewhere else. Jeremiah and Ezekiel foretold this in Jeremiah 30:3; Jeremiah 16:15; and Ezekiel 37.

Jeremiah 30:3

3The days are coming,’ declares the Lord, ‘when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity^a and restore them to the land I gave their ancestors to possess,’ says the Lord.”

Okay I will stop here.

This are but a few of the biblical prophecies that was fulfilled with Israel.

The bible is filled with prophecies, it's actually made up one third of prophecy. And why is this?

Well it's simple, it's to prove that some higher being can do this.

As it is written:

Isaiah 44:6-8

6“This is what the Lord says—

Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty:

I am the first and I am the last;

apart from me there is no God.

7Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.

Let him declare and lay out before me

what has happened since I established my ancient people,

and what is yet to come—

yes, let them foretell what will come.

8Do not tremble, do not be afraid.

Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?

You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?

No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”

[Fulham Broadway 17,311]

"As long as there is a sun and moon, jews will exist".

You could say the same as long as there is a sun and moon muslims will exist, chtistians, antelopes, Jedi Knights . Its hardly prophetic is it ? Nostradamus must be quaking in his boots.

[Fernando 6,585]

"As long as there is a sun and moon, jews will exist".

You could say the same as long as there is a sun and moon muslims will exist, chtistians, antelopes, Jedi Knights . Its hardly prophetic is it ? Nostradamus must be quaking in his boots.

True point, I see where your coming from.

But the fact is that's just one of many Prophecy.

You can find one skeptical, but 100? 300?

And that's just past fulfilled Prophecy.

If I tell you the future one then will you believe when you see it come to past?

[iseah100 5,612]

What does the "& Stuff" of this thread cover?

[Fulham Broadway 17,311]

True point, I see where your coming from.

But the fact is that's just one of many Prophecy.

You can find one skeptical, but 100? 300?

And that's just past fulfilled Prophecy.

If I tell you the future one then will you believe when you see it come to past?

Nah, youre alright mate. The results of prophecies tend to be inflated by the people that want to believe them, bit like tarot card readings.

I think if there was any serious credibility in them, we'd hear about ad nauseum via the media.

I think the main job of rank and file christians would do better to point that perceptive finger at the hypocrisy of, for example rampant paedophilia within the Catholic church, or the murderous genocide so beloved of fundamental so called christians, in the Republican party.

[Fernando 6,585]

Nah, youre alright mate. The results of prophecies tend to be inflated by the people that want to believe them, bit like tarot card readings.

I think if there was any serious credibility in them, we'd hear about ad nauseum via the media.

I think the main job of rank and file christians would do better to point that perceptive finger at the hypocrisy of, for example rampant paedophilia within the Catholic church, or the murderous genocide so beloved of fundamental so called christians, in the Republican party.

The media? Don't you complain how bias is the media.

You have research of the Internet, you can read for yourself and come to your own conclusions.

And as per your last point your right, that's why when the rapture of the church happens not every Christian will go.

It's like this, say for example in the entire world there was only 100 Christian. Well only about 20 percent will go because the majority are hypocrites.

And the Bible predicted this as well that in the last time there will be a great apostasy in the church.

What started once a fire for love peace and hope ends up in what you just mentioned.

[cosmicway 1,333]

The current prophecy is the electronic death of the human race.

Do you know when I wrote my first computer program ?

It was in 1976. It was to solve a simple quadratic equation and the difficulty this thing has for the beginner is, as the savvy among you will understand, to get the call conventions to the computer system right. So we did that in the class and the teacher said now I will take your cards to the central computer of the university by car, on Tuesday I will let you know if your program runs and those among you who made mistakes will have a chance to do this exercise again next Friday !
Do you know when I saw the first hand calc ?
It was in 1971. The proprietor of a billiards hall had a four op calculator and he showed it to me with pride. It costed him 10,000 drachmas - a sum equal to or just a little under the monthly salary of a secondary school headmaster those days - Make it 500 euros, thereabouts ! I said "it can't do square roots" and he replied "come on now, you think I run a space lab here !".
Now we can talk and see each other if we want and we can also watch entire matches.
I can see all the world's league matches without leaving my desk. In 1970 to see the Greek results in London was almost impossible. The Times-Telegraph newspapers every time they remembered had a tiny column in the last page of Monday's edition. Sometimes they forgot.
The drawbacks are significant however. We have big brother now. The taxman is in your house, like a modern day Nigerian email scammer and he sees your entire belongings at the flick of a switch. Also takes money away from you if it so amuses him.
The knowledge of what political party you support is old hat to them. Who cares ? We take his money and bob's your uncle he says. Let him vote for Barny the bear.
So gradually we become little cogs in a machine. The socialist big brother is everywhere, In your closet, in your washbasin.
Eventually he too will go away and a soulless electronic protocol will govern everything.

[Spike 12,049]

What does the "& Stuff" of this thread cover?

You got a fucking problem with my topic mate?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Unrelated point:

The Tories can go fuck themselves with all their cuts to onshore wind turbines and ridiculous lobbying for the greedy oil companies cunts!

Carry on lads...

[iseah100 5,612]

You got a fucking problem with my topic mate?

It's vague.

[Fulham Broadway 17,311]

Unrelated point:

The Tories can go fuck themselves with all their cuts to onshore wind turbines and ridiculous lobbying for the greedy oil companies cunts!

Carry on lads...

Love the way you just casually fire a katyusha into the fray Chou.

You are right though, they are cunts

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Love the way you just casually fire a katyusha into the fray Chou.

You are right though, they are cunts

Well, I'm southern Lebanese, Katyushas are my bread and butter!