Politics & Stuff

[DavidEU 2,023]

I love your advice about tolerating it. I tolerate free minded people, Hindu, Islam, Muslims, atheists and gays. But I don't tolerate witch-hunting on my religious rights, that is where my problem lies. For example, If I work as the CEO in Google and on twitter, I say "Jesus can suck my dick" its fine. But if I say I won't take my kids to that school because they have gay classes there, I'll be targeted on twitter and consequently fired.

That is a problem.

You don't get 'religious rights', what the hell are you on about?

And lol, 'gay classes'? Is this like the Russians who think we recruit under 18s to our bad way of life?

Can I ask you, if your son ever comes out to you, how would you treat him?

[NishC300 1,865]

Well that's because none of those concerns are even remotely rational as has been thoroughly demonstrated in this thread. Fine, let's leave the term 'homophobe' out of it even though it is very clear from your posts that your motivation is fear of homosexuality.

I'll repeat what everyone has already said: What changes in your life as a straight man (I'm assuming) now that gay marriage is legal is: Absolutely NOTHING.

Your 'concerns' over this are completely irrational and irrelevant. Homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with incest and exploitation of marriage happens all the time in 'traditional marriage' for getting citizenship, tax evasion...etc.

You use a lot of calculated terms to falsely describe reality, but 'Protectors of traditional marriage' is some incredible bullshit. What it actually means is people who want to force their sexual orientation on everyone else and stop people from getting married to who they want to even though it has absolutely nothing to do with them.

"a baker who kindly declines an offer for a cake" again, that's just incredible. What it actually means is a baker who discriminatorily refused to bake a cake based solely on someones sexual orientation.

What planet do you live on? Gay jokes are probably the most used jokes in the world. Again, your concerns have no roots in reality.

Also, it's quite astonishing how you manage to victimize yourself while attacking someone else's freedom and rights!

What does that have to do with anything? Someone spitting on anyone else is a jerk pretty much regardless of the circumstances and certainly regardless of his sexual identity or orientation. Are you really saying that LGBT people should not get their right to marry because a homosexual person spit on a priest?!

And NO it's not religious freedom to discriminate against people based on their sexual orientation just like it is not religious freedom to discriminate against Hindus for example because they have not accepted Christ as their savior and thus are all sinner. That's like saying stopping Al Qaeda attacks is infringing on their religious freedom because they believe that their religion tells them to blow people up!

Religious freedom stops when the freedom of others start. Meaning you have all the religious freedom in the world when the actions affect you and you alone. But when your religious actions start affecting other people without their consent and infringing on their freedom and rights, you don't have the freedom to do that anymore. When you refuse to sell someone a cake based on their sexual orientation, or religious beliefs, or race...etc. then you are infringing on their rights and are guilty of discrimination.

'Bullying religious institutions' So much for forming your own opinions, all your terminology is straight off the propaganda machine!

Yes, religious institutions are being bullied into stopping their thousands of years worth of discrimination, persecution and abuse of a minority based on the sexual orientation that they are born with. It's just heartbreaking...

Again: There simply is NO case for preventing a minority from practicing their basic human right to marry which does not affect you, your rights or freedom in any possible way just because it doesn't conform with your version of morality.

As for the final bold sentence, you're wrong again I repeat it's not my fault if you haven't read the case for the protection of traditional marriage. There are several good online sources and I'd highly recommend that you read them.

As for the 2nd paragraph a lot of changes happen once you change the definition of marriage, again Brian Lilley described some of the consequences that are happening in Canada as well as their new sex-ed programme which is what I'd say 'discrimination' against religious families. Legalising same-sex marriage may now accommodate for institutionalised discrimination against religious people. So yes, it'd be nice if we could just live happily together as you claim will happen, but unfortunately as we have seen that rarely happens (if ever).

Furthermore, regarding jokes etc, then again you're wrong - the politically correct police ensures that no jokes are cracked on homosexuals and viciously attack anyone who does. That's why so many comedians now refuse to attend colleges because of how politically correct the society is there.

As for the priest, I was merely using that to crush your false notion that the those who want to defend traditional marriage are 'evil, twisted bigots'. Ik the left loves creating false images, but the reality is quite different. The only bigots are those who wish to redefine marriage, and they are given a free reign by institutions to say whatever they want, while any attempt to protect marriage is labeled as 'homophobia'.

As for the 'force their orientation onto others' thing is complete nonsense. They simply wish to find a solution through civilised discourse, something which so many who wish to redefine marriage are strongly against. This is evident from their vile attacks on religious institutions. As well as they do their very best to stop their opponents talking by 'name calling'. As they say just keep shouting homophobe until you get what you want......

Weird isn't traditional marriage believers wish to engage in civlised discourse and want to let the other side express their opinion too, but the those who wish to redefine it will use every power they have to shut up the opposition.

That's why the bakers in Oregon went bankrupt because a gay couple claimed that being denied a cake resulted in them feeling 'mentally raped'. This is the free and equal society you speak of?

As for not baking a cake being homophobic? You can serve whoever you want!!!! It's your bakery!!!! Many of the bakers and florists literally even gave numbers to other nearby shops and told them to go there!

And oh, by the way, recently some Christian organisation called up 13 prominent gay bakeries and asked them to bake a cake writing 'Gay Marriage is Wrong'.

Did they bake it? No.

Did they have their business shut down? No.

Did anyone in the media even mention it? No.

Instead they replied with hate-filled messages. While the Christian bakers (and also some Muslim bakers who refused to) politely declined the offers. Yet again demonstrating which side is being hateful....

Wonder who is being discriminated against here......

Already gave you the reason.

No point in continuing that if you believe acting out against is a justifiable cause.

This is the way to do it:

I posted exactly this a couple of pages ago. It's shocking when I hear some gay rights activists compare themselves to Dr.King. It's a disgusting attack on his memory and his greatness. What's even more ironic is that Dr. King was a firm believer in traditional marriage and his motives were deep rooted in Christian principles.

I would recommend you and b]@kellzfresh, read Dennis Prager's recent article on:

PRAGER: The Formal End to Judeo-Christian America

Source: http://www.truthrevolt.org/commentary/prager-formal-end-judeo-christian-america

PRAGER: The Formal End to Judeo-Christian America

Without Judeo-Christian values, everything will change.

The U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling on the redefinition of marriage seals the end of America as the Founders envisioned it.

From well before 1776 until the second half of the 20th century, the moral values of the United States were rooted in the Bible and its God.

Unlike Europe, which defined itself as exclusively Christian, America became the first Judeo-Christian society. The American Founders were Christians — either theologically or culturally — but they were rooted in the Hebrew Scriptures. Even Americans who could not affirm traditional Christian or Jewish theology affirmed the centrality of God to ethics. Americans, from the Founders on, understood that without God, there is no moral truth, only moral opinion — and assumed that those truths were to be gleaned from the Bible more than anywhere else.

Beginning with the Supreme Court’s ban on nondenominational school prayer in 1962, the same-sex marriage decision has essentially completed the state’s secularization of American society. This is one thing about which both right and left, religious and secular, can agree. One side may rejoice over the fact, and the other may weep, but it is a fact.

And what has replaced Judaism, Christianity, Judeo-Christian values and the Bible?

The answer is: feelings. More and more Americans rely on feelings to make moral decisions. The heart has taken the place of the Bible.

Years ago, I recorded an interview with a Swedish graduate student. I began by asking her whether she believed in God. Of course not. Did she believe in religion? Of course not.

“Where, then, do you get your notion of right and wrong?” I asked.

“From my heart,” she responded.

That is why five members of the Supreme Court have redefined marriage. They consulted their hearts.

That is understandable. Any religious conservative who does not acknowledge homosexuals’ historic persecution or does not understand gays who desire to marry lacks compassion.

But let’s be honest. This lack of compassion is more than matched by the meanness expressed by the advocates of same-sex marriage. They have rendered those who believe that marriage should remain a man-woman institution the most vilified group in America today.

It is the heart — not the mind, not millennia of human experience, nor any secular or religious body of wisdom — that has determined that marriage should no longer be defined as the union of a man and a woman.

It is the heart, not the mind, that has concluded that gender has no significance. That is the essence of the Brave New World being ushered in. For the first time in recorded history, whole societies are announcing that gender has no significance. Same-sex marriage is, above all else, the statement that male and female mean nothing, are completely interchangeable, and, yes, don’t even objectively exist, because you are only the gender you feel you are. That explains the “T” in “LGBT.” The case for same-sex marriage is dependent on the denial of sexual differences.

It is the heart, not the mind, that has concluded that all a child needs is love, not a father and mother.

And therein lies one of the reasons that the notion of obedience to religion is so loathed by the cultural left. Biblical Judaism and Christianity repeatedly dismiss the heart as a moral guide.

Moreover, the war to replace God, Judeo-Christian values and the Bible as moral guides is far from over. What will this lead to?

Here are three likely scenarios:

1. Becoming more and more like Western Europe, which has more or less created the first godless and religion-less societies in history. Among the consequences are less marriage and the birth of far fewer children.

2. More and more ostracizing — eventually outlawing — of religious Jews and Christians, clergy, and institutions that refuse to perform same-sex weddings.

3. An America increasingly guided by people’s hearts.

If you trust the human heart, you should feel confident about the future. If you don’t, you should be scared. Judeo-Christian values have made America, despite its flaws, uniquely free and prosperous and the greatest force for good in the world. Without those values, all of that will change.

Those two have different magnitudes. Jesus can suck my dick is akin to saying being gay is unnatural or an aberration, whereas not taking your kids to a school that has gay classes is more akin to an owner of a business refusing to serve you because you are a christian. Just like those images of Christ in those gay parades are in a whole different magnitude to denying a minority a civil right. Those are not comparable.

And even if you compare wrongs of the same magnitude, the one against the minority will stand out more and be worse because they are naturally oppressed by being a minority, they're the weaker party. There's a saying in Law which I'm not sure I can translate properly but it is somewhat like this, treat equals equally and unequals unequally in accord to the intensity of that inequality - only then you'll have true justice. Minorities need certain privileges and rights in order to be able to withstand the rule of the majority. That's like one of the major founding basis of the human rights.

Please elaborate cos that sound like Animal Farm's "All Animals are equal but some are more equal than others."

[kellzfresh 7,229]

You don't get 'religious rights', what the hell are you on about?

And lol, 'gay classes'? Is this like the Russians who think we recruit under 18s to our bad way of life?

Can I ask you, if your son ever comes out to you, how would you treat him?

I never said being gay is a bad way of life. I'm just saying that we should be allowed to know and choose the classes our kids take before they grow up.

If my son comes out to me, I'll accept him but I'll strongly advise him not to witch-hunt people with sues here and there.

I don't like the fear to say what I feel about things (as long as I don't insult someone directly) and that's what its coming to in the USA.

I'm sorry about all this, making so many comments on this matter has made me seem like a dick. This is the first time I've been actively involved in this politics section of the forum and it seems I've offended people especially you.

I don't mean anyone harm, sorry for offending anyone in anyway.

[DavidEU 2,023]

I never said being gay is a bad way of life. I'm just saying that we should be allowed to know and choose the classes our kids take before they grow up.

If my son comes out to me, I'll accept him but I'll strongly advise him not to witch-hunt people with sues here and there.

I don't like the fear to say what I feel about things (as long as I don't insult someone directly) and that's what its coming to in the USA.

I'm sorry about all this, making so many comments on this matter has made me seem like a dick. This is the first time I've been actively involved in this politics section of the forum and it seems I've offended people especially you.

I don't mean anyone harm, sorry for offending anyone in anyway.

Why is your kids taking a class on equality and treating people equally a bad thing? It's not a 'gay class', it's learning not to be judgemental and offensive to people whom, even now, get an insane amount of abuse and attack for loving the person they love. I seriously disrespect you as a father if you don't want your kids to learn that.

You haven't offended me at all. I just feel sorry for you that your views are so warped to the reality of it.

You make the examples you've bought up to be the majority rather than the tiny minority.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Why is your kids taking a class on equality and treating people equally a bad thing? It's not a 'gay class', it's learning not to be judgemental and offensive to people whom, even now, get an insane amount of abuse and attack for loving the person they love. I seriously disrespect you as a father if you don't want your kids to learn that.

You haven't offended me at all. I just feel sorry for you that your views are so warped to the reality of it.

You make the examples you've bought up to be the majority rather than the tiny minority.

The examples I brought up is a growing trend and I'm worried about it because thats how it starts till becomes huge and the norm.

I'm happy that gay people can freely marry and live their lives as they choose to, I just don't want them to stamp on Christian free nature along their way to rightful gay freedom.

The truth that you've been trying to point out to me is that it is okay to take those classes because you won't change if you're naturally born gay or straight. This is true actually, But I can't help but feel that if kids see things at a young age, they're bound to try it out and get used to it or change their true nature eventually. This is not scientifically proven, but I feel this way.

[NishC300 1,865]

What's surprising is that we're not debating the situation in Greece. Referendum's in 4 days.

[DavidEU 2,023]

The examples I brought up is a growing trend and I'm worried about it because thats how it starts till becomes huge and the norm.

I'm happy that gay people can freely marry and live their lives as they choose to, I just don't want them to stamp on Christian free nature along their way to rightful gay freedom.

The truth that you've been trying to point out to me is that it is okay to take those classes because you won't change if you're naturally born gay or straight. This is true actually, But I can't help but feel that if kids see things at a young age, they're bound to try it out and get used to it or change their true nature eventually. This is not scientifically proven, but I feel this way.

So it's okay for LGBTs to be disrespected by Christians and they have to just lay down and take it? What the hell is wrong with you? You say you don't have a problem with homosexuality but you speak sometimes as though their second class citizens.

And no, it's not been scientifically proven. Because it's idiotic. I grew up in a house with my Dad and two heterosexual brothers, with a Dad who, at the time, was pretty homophobic. I grew up watching football and wrestling and all my friends were heterosexual boys. I practically had fanny forced in my face 24/7. But as long as I can remember, I've known I was gay. It's not forced upon anyone, you're attracted to who you're attracted too and nothing's going to change that.

[Weckerz 3,781]

After reading the last few pages I'm happy I live in a place where religion is trivial.. quite shocking tbh

[kellzfresh 7,229]

So it's okay for LGBTs to be disrespected by Christians and they have to just lay down and take it? What the hell is wrong with you? You say you don't have a problem with homosexuality but you speak sometimes as though their second class citizens. .

Where in my quote did I say its okay for Christians to disrespect gays???

Where did I say they are second class citizens???

You've brought anger into our discussion so I'll like to stop here before it gets out of hand...

[Dion 2,476]

Please elaborate cos that sound like Animal Farm's "All Animals are equal but some are more equal than others."

It means exactly what it means. A fine of $200 has a different impact for someone who earns the minimum wage and another one who is a billionaire. Killing someone out of a whim and killing someone in self-defense are both killing someone and still they're not equally reprovable. I'm just saying this because homosexuals are a minority, and a discriminated one at that. They need legal protection. And what's happening here is the denial of a basic right (marriage) to this minority group. In my eyes this is not too different from excluding women from voting or blacks from studying in the same schools as caucasians. It must be noted that minority vs. majority is not only about numbers, it's a complex concept that also involves power and influence. Women were/are definitely not a minority in traditional sense but in terms of power they still are in many/most societies.

I'd link some material they use in my university but they're in portuguese. In a quick search I found this little summary of what I'm talking about: http://www.democracyweb.org/node/36

[NishC300 1,865]

Good explanation for those who are not well acquainted with the current European Debt Crisis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8xAXJx9WJ8

[cosmicway 1,333]

Good explanation for those who are not well acquainted with the current European Debt Crisis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8xAXJx9WJ8

Mostly correct.

But he is lying about taxes.

[NishC300 1,865]

Mostly correct.

But he is lying about taxes.

I believe he was referring to the tax evasion issues in Greece where billions of euros in tax was not collected.

[cosmicway 1,333]

I believe he was referring to the tax evasion issues in Greece where billions of euros in tax was not collected.

Nonsense.

Greece has stringent tax laws.

Also electronic systems of surveillance since 2001 and draconian electronic systems since 2012.

I know of a case of a criminal who was acquitted in 2008 because they could not open his bank accounts. The prosecuting authority could accuse him only if those bank accounts were opened and the evidence was obtained. The public prosecutor made a stupid mistake because he should have known the banks were not allowed to open the account of somebody unless he was already convicted for a crime. That is not the case any longer and we know that man was a criminal because it was an Al Kapone type of situation.

Nowadays you can't escape.

The high level of tax-evasion is a myth created by the socialists, in an effort to prove that their inflated public sector was innocent of it all and the tax payers were to blame. Lies. That eventually was used as a propaganda weapon against Greece and turned into a boomerang.

In the recent euro-group talks however the Euro-bosses rejected Greek proposals for a "fight against tax evasion". When it came down to counting real money, they realised there is none to be had that way !

In writing all the above I assume that by the word "tax evader" we mean somebody who does not pay the full amount of taxes he has to pay under the law as it stands.

Commonly the left calls tax evaders everybody, because they think taxes should go higher or there should be more taxes.

But even if there should be more taxes, that is not a good definition of tax evasion. Tax evasion is when the current tax law requires me to pay 100 and I pay 50.

Anyway Greece's system of taxation is punitive indeed. No foreigners come here to invest as a result.

[NishC300 1,865]

Nonsense.

Greece has stringent tax laws.

Also electronic systems of surveillance since 2001 and draconian electronic systems since 2012.

I know of a case of a criminal who was acquitted in 2008 because they could not open his bank accounts. The prosecuting authority could accuse him only if those bank accounts were opened and the evidence was obtained. The public prosecutor made a stupid mistake because he should have known the banks were not allowed to open the account of somebody unless he was already convicted for a crime. That is not the case any longer and we know that man was a criminal because it was an Al Kapone type of situation.

Nowadays you can't escape.

The high level of tax-evasion is a myth created by the socialists, in an effort to prove that their inflated public sector was innocent of it all and the tax payers were to blame. Lies. That eventually was used as a propaganda weapon against Greece and turned into a boomerang.

In the recent euro-group talks however the Euro-bosses rejected Greek proposals for a "fight against tax evasion". When it came down to counting real money, they realised there is none to be had that way !

In writing all the above I assume that by the word "tax evader" we mean somebody who does not pay the full amount of taxes he has to pay under the law as it stands.

Commonly the left calls tax evaders everybody, because they think taxes should go higher or there should be more taxes.

But even if there should be more taxes, that is not a good definition of tax evasion. Tax evasion is when the current tax law requires me to pay 100 and I pay 50.

Anyway Greece's system of taxation is punitive indeed. No foreigners come here to invest as a result.

Indeed, I was unaware they were lies as that's what the MSM claimed. Just shows how the left fools people these days. Thank you for pointing it out!

I'm guessing you're quite pleased with the outcome of yesterday's referendum. It will only be worth it if you pull out of the eurozone though.

[cosmicway 1,333]

Indeed, I was unaware they were lies as that's what the MSM claimed. Just shows how the left fools people these days. Thank you for pointing it out!

I'm guessing you're quite pleased with the outcome of yesterday's referendum. It will only be worth it if you pull out of the eurozone though.

Look It's a wild exaggeration not a lie as such.

Look, it always happens between close friends.

It's three weeks now one of the home appliances broke down. I have a fb friend, who used to be an old friend and he is into the business of repairing the such equipment. In fb he is publishing wild stuff every hour "hang the tax evaders, long live Tsipras" and all the rest of it. Because I knew he was no leftie I talked to him about these things and he said "now I am".

Anyway I say to my sister, look invite so and so to fix it. So he comes round, he fixes it and I also treated him with mashed potatoes from the oven. In the end he says ok I fixed it, that 'll be 100 euros and let's forget the tax receipt as that will make it go to 115. Takes the 100 euros, says goodbye and goes home !

Now they accused the doctors in the posh Kolonaki district. I 've been there once or twice and you have to go through twenty five nurses and sign lots of paperwork. Why not doctors in working class districts ? Petralona ? Nobody was caught in the end. Certainly not among doctors. It's appeaser propaganda but as you can see it boomerangs, because the whatever calls for solidarity from the other European nations go to deaf ears now.

The referendum result was an unholy alliance between the pinks and the blackies.

Opinion poll companies were caught with their pants down - I don't know why. Some rumours now that those poll companies knew the truth and they placed a lot of money in the betting exchanges (n.b. the market was upsided early Sunday afternoon).

Now that "no" will turn into "yes".

Wait and see.

Like the "yes" on the Lycabettus hill of old. If you don't know what that was ask another Greek friend of yours.

[Fulham Broadway 17,336]

GREECE’S former finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, has unveiled plans to ride around on his motorbike having martial arts battles with local villains.

The freewheeling politician said he will go to whichever small town needs his help, taking manly temporary jobs like labourer or nightclub bouncer and standing up for locals against corrupt local bosses and their heavies.

He said: “I will ride into town, get a room in a local boarding house and establish a simmering sexual chemistry with the widowed but still beautiful landlady.

“Then I go into a bar where toughs in sleeveless denim shirts are harassing the waitresses. I beat them up using a mixture of kung fu and kickboxing techniques, stopping short of killing them because I hate violence.

“The elderly owner, who has a beautiful daughter, buys me a drink while explaining that the town is in the iron grip of someone called Mayor Angelis who everybody lives in fear of. To which I say something like ’not any more’.

“Then I either go and beat up all the villains in a spectacular battle, or decide to just ride off at that point leaving everything in a worse mess than before.”

[Stingray 9,441]

GREECE’S former finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, has unveiled plans to ride around on his motorbike having martial arts battles with local villains.

The freewheeling politician said he will go to whichever small town needs his help, taking manly temporary jobs like labourer or nightclub bouncer and standing up for locals against corrupt local bosses and their heavies.

He said: “I will ride into town, get a room in a local boarding house and establish a simmering sexual chemistry with the widowed but still beautiful landlady.

“Then I go into a bar where toughs in sleeveless denim shirts are harassing the waitresses. I beat them up using a mixture of kung fu and kickboxing techniques, stopping short of killing them because I hate violence.

“The elderly owner, who has a beautiful daughter, buys me a drink while explaining that the town is in the iron grip of someone called Mayor Angelis who everybody lives in fear of. To which I say something like ’not any more’.

“Then I either go and beat up all the villains in a spectacular battle, or decide to just ride off at that point leaving everything in a worse mess than before.”

My kind of guy!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Ten Years After 7/7 London bombings: We have learned nothing

Best article I've read on the subject today.

[cosmicway 1,333]

GREECE’S former finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, has unveiled plans to ride around on his motorbike having martial arts battles with local villains.

The freewheeling politician said he will go to whichever small town needs his help, taking manly temporary jobs like labourer or nightclub bouncer and standing up for locals against corrupt local bosses and their heavies.

He said: “I will ride into town, get a room in a local boarding house and establish a simmering sexual chemistry with the widowed but still beautiful landlady.

“Then I go into a bar where toughs in sleeveless denim shirts are harassing the waitresses. I beat them up using a mixture of kung fu and kickboxing techniques, stopping short of killing them because I hate violence.

“The elderly owner, who has a beautiful daughter, buys me a drink while explaining that the town is in the iron grip of someone called Mayor Angelis who everybody lives in fear of. To which I say something like ’not any more’.

“Then I either go and beat up all the villains in a spectacular battle, or decide to just ride off at that point leaving everything in a worse mess than before.”

Varoufakis will go to foreign universities and make lectures for a fee of 25000 $.

I wonder.

Was the guy who taught us "fortran for beginners" earning that much for each lecture ?

I went to a couple of those, with invited speakers. One was about black holes. Useful stuff but it did n't look like a 25000 $ invitation.

I wonder what Harvard students learn from those imbeciles. The Harvard exams are nothing to lauch at, but Varoufakis ? I bet the tea ladies they have over there are better.

Amazing situation.

Why can't people throw away money like that when I 'm around ?