Politics & Stuff

[Spike 12,049]

If immigrants (illegal or otherwise) are payed the same amount as locals then there is no incentive to hire immigrants unless they are more qualified. At the end of the day if you are getting the same rate as an immigrant but you don't get the job it will be because they are more qualified.

I don't know if this rings true in England but it does in MURIKA.

[We Hate Scouse 10,332]

If immigrants (illegal or otherwise) are payed the same amount as locals then there is no incentive to hire immigrants unless they are more qualified. At the end of the day if you are getting the same rate as an immigrant but you don't get the job it will be because they are more qualified.

I don't know if this rings true in England but it does in MURIKA.

They will work for minimum wage in jobs that should pay more. Employees know they can get the workforce cheaper so opt for immigrants.

What's your views on the Australian immigration system? From what I've read it sounds like exactly what the UK needs, but obviously you've seen it first hand.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Absolute myth, they've done a hell of a lot for working people. Its those on benefits that have suffered. The Labour government ridicules the Tories for being well off and going to private schools, but the reality is these people went to the same schools, they had no struggle growing up. As a family I'd probably be better off in the short term under a Labour government, but you have to think about the bigger picture.

Private power isn't always a bad thing either, it generates more competition which in some cases (certainly not all) can push prices down. It just needs to be governed better.

Labour destroyed our country under Blair and Brown. If it wasn't for those two I probably wouldn't be that bothered, they've admitted their mistakes regarding immigration and benefits. Ed Milliband is an absolute clown, he makes mistake after mistake and people still trust him to run the country.

SNP are a Scottish party, they don't have any interest in England. If they have a say in our government they will ruin England for their own gain, it would be ridiculous.

What would be ideal for me is a Tory UKIP coalition. UKIP aren't prepared to run the country, they don't have a clue, but some of their policies are excellent and certainly need to be adopted by others. Such as them wanting to follow an immigration point system like Australia. Immigrants are fantastic, I'm pro immigration but on a level. We need immigrants that will bring something to the country, that will help us thrive. We also need those that do actually need help, such as Syrian refugees etc. not those that want to exploit our benefit system.

I'm happy with a Tory Lib Dem coalition though as the Tories do all the right things regarding the economy whilst the Lib Dems keep them in check.

Hey, I'm not in any way advocating for Labor. I know enough about them to realize what a joke of a party they are.

You have to look at who finances the Tories and UKIP and what they want in return as well as who they are and what lobby they serve. And that means that despite doing occasional things for working class, when it comes down to it on important issues such as taxes, surveillance, budget spending, foreign policies and wars, spending on public services...etc. they will most likely protect the interest of the people that paid to put them in office in the first place.

Regarding SNP, I know you're English, but you can try to be a bit less condescending about it! Please tell me you see the incredible double standards you use there? Those are people that you (the English) have ruled over for centuries (very often not at all kindly) and to this day take advantage of their resources more than they do. Regardless of that, they are part of the political system (and from what I saw most English people were VERY keen to keep them as a part of it last year) and should be considered equals. I'm sorry but this kind of intolerant rhetoric about "the bloody Scotts that will ruin England for their own good" comes across as very offensive and verging on racist.

From what I've read about the libdems they don't seem to be holding back the Tories but rather rolling over for them.

I have to agree with most if what you have said in terms of taxing the super rich more heavily and forcing the bug corporations to employ more people within the country.

Though in regards to immigration, you will not convince me that the huge influx of eastern eauropeans and others are beneficial to This country whatsoever.

Please do not take this as prejiduce towards any group specifically because I have absolutely no quarrels with the eastern europeans or others.

I work in the Railway industry in London and since the growth in immigration the wages have been driven down rapidly and from this affecting me personally... I find it hard to tollerate!

This is happeneing in all over the country, making it harder to survive. The cost of living goes up and the wages are driven down.

I honestly wasn't trying to say it was certainly beneficial as I already stated I don't know all the details about it in the UK, but my point was that knowing politicians and right wing parties, it is most likely not nearly the most significant issue as is being portrayed but rather it is being used as cover up for the bigger issues, imo.

[Liquidator 5,176]

People have worded their pro UKIP argument in such a way that it sounds like they think most immigrants are useless. It's ridiculous. FYI 99% of migrants don't move here just to 'reap the rewards of the government'. Most actually come here to make better lives for themselves while contributing honestly to the economy, paying taxes etc. The social problem is more British nationals who sit at home watching Jeremy Kyle not actually searching for a job or getting rejected from one and just playing the 'immigrants come here to take our jobs' argument. What makes you more entitled to a job than them? If you can't get a job ahead of somebody with no contacts in the country, doesn't speak English as a first language then that is more a reflection of you as an individual than the immigrant.

As for 'useful' immigrants, Farage wants what 30,000 people a year allowed to seek work in the UK from abroad? The NHS would totally fall apart if only 30,000 people were allowed to seek work here. He can claim he is going to train 10,000 nurses or whatever but where are they going to come from? As the son and cousin of a nurse I can tell you that you don't find many British nurses coming out of university each year. There is a huge shortage so we have to recruit from Spain, Portugal and the Philippines. They would be about 8,000 of the 30,000 yearly quota gone if Farage wants to keep the National Health Service going. Don't get me started on doctors and other skilled workers in the NHS. He might want to look at where we are going to get all the engineers for infrastructure projects like Crossrail 2 to help the economy grow.

[Spike 12,049]

They will work for minimum wage in jobs that should pay more. Employees know they can get the workforce cheaper so opt for immigrants.

What's your views on the Australian immigration system? From what I've read it sounds like exactly what the UK needs, but obviously you've seen it first hand.

I don't know man. I hate to turn people away from Australia. It's disgusting but sometimes it needs to be done. Now Australia looks like a big country but it really isn't. "This means Australia's habitable land takes up approximately 10% of the actual land mass, with 90% being 'termed' uninhabitable." That is a quote taken from: http://37propertygroup.com.au/real-estate/population-density/

So 10% of 7,692,024 km² Is 769,202.4km². England is 130,395 km² . You probably think, yeah Aus is still bigger than England. Buuuut Australia has drought and water issues. We have clean, great water in Austrlaia. Fit for anyone to drink but what happens if the population grows so large the water sources deplete? We die. We have less food, less everything.

I'm essentially a multi-generation naturalised immigrant and an immigrant to the USA. I grew up in Australia, love the country and the culture is an integral part of my identity. To turn away immigrants is to be against what the nation fundamentally is: a pot of multicultural immigrants. The lands originally belong to the Indigenous Australians, to turn away immigrants would be hypocritical and insulting to the people who forcibly lost their lands to immigrants.

It's a crisis of philosophy. Either let those that want to come in and be the Australia that the nation was always meant to be or close the borders and keep things the way they are insuring the lifestyle and culture of modern Australia stays intact. I don't think it's necessarily an issue of losing jobs or wealth, it's an issue of sustainability. Can Australia's infrastructure support a growing population. It really, really struggles.

I know some great people that have immigrated to Australia and have become citizens. Chinese, English, Irish, German, Americans, Filipinos far too many to list. Are they the issue? No I don't believe so. I believe the illegal immigrants with no passports, no history and no credentials are. Can these people be trusted? Will they give to society as much as they take? Will they improve Australia? Or will they make it worse? It's impossible to know. We could be turning away some fantastic people, they would work hard and make this country better...but we could also be turning away possible welfare sponges, criminals and lowlifes.

[Liquidator 5,176]

Although I'm shifting towards voting Conservative my local MP (Michael Fallon) is an absolute toolbox who I can in no way support. He opposes same sex marriage, has voted against taxing bankers' bonuses and mansion tax and lied saying that he wants to fight rail fail increases above inflation (he actually voted in favour of raising them above inflation in the commons). He offers no help to anybody who contacts him concerning a local issue. Instead he will just read your letter back to you followed by 'I suggest you consult a lawyer'.

I'll probably vote Lib Dem as they are the second biggest party in my area just to get that twit Fallon out.

[Spike 12,049]

It must be said that immgrants to Australia usually come by shoddy boats. When they are turned away many die. This is the difference. Australia turning away immigrants results in deaths...

[Spike 12,049]

In other news, two Australians have been executed by the Indoenesian government against the will of the Australian government. The relations of the two nations are breaking down rapidly. Barbaric murder.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Police brutality in the United States has reached its boiling point.

[cosmicway 1,333]

Police brutality in the United States has reached its boiling point.

The police ain't brutal unless they have political instructions to be so.

It's unlikely, so it appears the problem is more complex.

[Spike 12,049]

Police brutality in the United States has reached its boiling point.

Yeah, it's pretty messed up how many people die; regardless or ethnicity, creed or religion. I don't agree with rioting however, it's a disgrace that people return terrible acts in kind. What does rioting achieve? If anything it makes the police more hostile and distrusting of the general public. If I were a cop; a good cop, not corrupt or violent in anyway I'd be very worried about my own wellbeing as well as my family because of the career I chose. Many police officers work hard and give their lives to make the world a fair and safer place to be, I think it's unjust that so many have to carry the stigma of 'corruption' and 'violence' because some ( too many) police are.

Do some of the rioters want to instigate change? Yes, I suppose but it worries that more than enough of the rioters are heartless oppurtunists that are just using someone's death as a scapegoat and justification to loot and tear up the place.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Rioting is the language of the unheard - MLK

[Spike 12,049]

Just because MLK said something doesn't mean it is true, he was only a man and his words aren't divine mandate. Great things have been achieved peacefully and I believe rioting is the wrong way to achieve what you desire.

[Spike 12,049]

98 police officers injured, 2 people shot. One fire victim in critical condition. Is this the price to pay for change?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Police brutality in the United States has reached its boiling point.

They would rather turn an entire city into a fucking war zone and attempt to turn it into a police state rather than hold a cop responsible for the murder of a man for being black. Think about that for a moment....

Yeah, it's pretty messed up how many people die; regardless or ethnicity, creed or religion. I don't agree with rioting however, it's a disgrace that people return terrible acts in kind. What does rioting achieve? If anything it makes the police more hostile and distrusting of the general public. If I were a cop; a good cop, not corrupt or violent in anyway I'd be very worried about my own wellbeing as well as my family because of the career I chose. Many police officers work hard and give their lives to make the world a fair and safer place to be, I think it's unjust that so many have to carry the stigma of 'corruption' and 'violence' because some ( too many) police are.

Do some of the rioters want to instigate change? Yes, I suppose but it worries that more than enough of the rioters are heartless oppurtunists that are just using someone's death as a scapegoat and justification to loot and tear up the place.

The looting and violence are momentary. Racism in the US and the civil rights of minorities, on the other hand, is central issue has not been addressed properly for over 4 centuries.

Rioting is the ONLY way to get civil rights and making change has been historically.

98 police officers injured, 2 people shot. One fire victim in critical condition. Is this the price to pay for change?

That's actually a VERY minimal price it it makes actual change. Which is won't, but it's an important step in the right direction. Change costs A LOT. Even attempts at change can devastating. You think the French revolution was peaceful?

Ordinary people are usually powerless in our societies. When they attempt to take some of the power back, there is almost always violence because those who monopolize the power will always fight back.

Power to the people.

[Spike 12,049]

They would rather turn an entire city into a fucking war zone and attempt to turn it into a police state rather than hold a cop responsible for the murder of a man for being black. Think about that for a moment....

The looting and violence are momentary. Racism in the US and the civil rights of minorities, on the other hand, is central issue has not been addressed properly for over 4 centuries.

Rioting is the ONLY way to get civil rights and making change has been historically.

That's actually a VERY minimal price it it makes actual change. Which is won't, but it's an important step in the right direction. Change costs A LOT. Even attempts at change can devastating. You think the French revolution was peaceful?

Ordinary people are usually powerless in our societies. When they attempt to take some of the power back, there is almost always violence because those who monopolize the power will always fight back.

Power to the people.

The French Revolution was over 200 years ago. To bring this into discussion would be imply that humans haven't changed nor has society in that given time. What about the Indian Independance Struggle? That was peaceful, that changed more than this riot ever will.

You think that injury and violence is an okay way to force change? I do not believe so. That is an inherently sad way to view life. Of the 98 police officers injured how many actually deserved it? To say that they did in any way means you are okay with violence and for me that is not okay.

La haine attire la haine

[Spike 12,049]

People cry out agianst the death penalty yet are okay with rioting? Both are attempts to instigate change using violence. In the case of riots sometimes people do die and people do suffer.

Two Australians dead in an attempt to change and stop drug trafficking. Will it change anything? No, but no two people are dead.

A man has died in police custody. Many people injured, lively hoods ruined, property stolen and damaged. Will it change anyhting? No, now there is chaos and everything has become worse in the city of Baltimore.

Enquiries should be made into the police force by the federal government. Corruption should be stamped out, those responsible should be punished. But now justice and progression is hindered because people are burning shit.

[Kieran. 6,317]

It isn't just about Freddie Grey, it's a history of slavery, then segregation and now police brutality, there's a point where some people just burst and I can't blame them. I've never experienced what they have so how can i tell them not to riot? Everything they try, the media spins them into "thugs" and after a certain point, windows will be smashed.

I get why people are upset over that, (and this is not distracted at you Spike) but many people in my country are more concerned with broken glass than a man whose throat was smashed and his spine severed in three places while in police custody. There's just something not right about that.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

The French Revolution was over 200 years ago. To bring this into discussion would be imply that humans haven't changed nor has society in that given time. What about the Indian Independance Struggle? That was peaceful, that changed more than this riot ever will.

You think that injury and violence is an okay way to force change? I do not believe so. That is an inherently sad way to view life. Of the 98 police officers injured how many actually deserved it? To say that they did in any way means you are okay with violence and for me that is not okay.

La haine attire la haine

The methods have not changed since the French revolutions. Think of all the major uprising in recent history: Civil rights movement in the US, the struggle against Apartheid in South Africa, Women's rights movements around the world, Iran Islamic revolution...etc. Here is an article a quick google search comes up with on the important role that violent rebellion prior to 1940 played in India's independence: https://kurukshetra1.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/no-non-violence-didnt-free-india-from-the-british-empire/

The Indian independence is only the least violent, but as far as uprisings go, this one right now pretty peaceful. Violent uprisings would be like the ones in Lybia, Yemen, Syria...etc. and I mean even before the foreign interventions.

No, I don't think it's okay that people are getting hurt, but I realize that is a necessity for uprisings. I don't need to condone something to understand it. It does not make it right and the people doing it should be punished. But this sudden violence is not even comparable to regular violence that you have become accustomed to. Again, if people are given their rights there would be no violence and this violence is only momentary while rights abuses and racism have been ever present.

[Spike 12,049]

I just don't think it helps in the long run. If police are racist and this is causing brutality why would the riots make them any less racist? In fact I'd see the cops becoming more aggressive, and more violent because now they have an even larger chip on their shoulder due to retaliation. What if one day while patrolling the streets a pair of officers recognise a man from the riots, a man that was rioting an injured one of their friends. What do you think the police would do? I wouldn't be surprised if they took that young man (who only wanted change) and beat the fuck out of him and maybe even kill him.

I honestly don't think riots will make things change for the better, they can only exasperate what is already broken. I can empathise what has happened to a lot of black Americans (I don't know if that term is racist or not as I've met a lot of 'African Americans' that hate being called African because they don't associate with African culture or nations) throughout history, I can't understand what it's like to be in their shoes but I hope that as a community they can rally together and make change that doesn't rely on hitting back and causing more suffering.