Politics & Stuff

[Stingray 9,441]

Good to have you back Tom.

''Reap what you have sawn'' is that a typo or sick joke ?

Autocorrect on ipad - even i would not be that cynical :-)

[We Hate Scouse 10,286]

We will never have a just and fair system as long as our standard of civilisation remains on a par with the likes of ants and bees. That is to say, the worker - queen model; in which the many work to feed the few who rule and control advancement. This firstly is utterly incompatible with human nature as we are simply not conditioned, unlike insects, to be servile. The worker - queen system relies on the existence of a servile class in order to survive; without such a class, it will collapse. Secondly, it is extremely inefficient to concentrate development in the hands of the few. 7 billion brains harnessed together can achieve incredible things; 10 million working together while 6.99 bn work to feed them cannot. Now, there are two solutions to the 21st Century Crisis. The first is more palatable to the elite as their position may not be compromised - robots will be the servile class and all humans will be elevated to be queens. This can work because robots obviously have no capacity for independent thought or emotion, so they will not resist against the status quo unlike the human servile class. Thus the system will no longer be undermined as the servile class will be happy with their lot.

The other is to go back to how nature intended for us to live. Self-sufficiency will be the cornerstone of this as every individual becomes responsible for their own survival. Natural selection will take care of those who are incapable of simultaneously sustaining their existence and working to contribute to the advancement of civilisation, and the resulting society will be a true Utopia.

Then there's a third way, which is to stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes firmly, and refuse to acknowledge that we are now at a point where the system is untenable and on the verge of collapse. This will lead to a devastating series of wars when the system does inevitably fail as we will compete for a slice of the ever dwindling resource pie. The wars will be fought over land, minerals, food, and water. This appears the most likely scenario and I'll be mighty surprised if a single human can survive through it.

I'm not going to bother replying to the other inane ramblings that followed my first post. There's no hope in talking to people who are unable to think outside the box and realise how laughably primitive, inefficient, and untenable society as we know it is. And as long as the majority of humanity is unable to come up with 21st century solutions to 21st century problems, we are doomed as a species. This is it. This century is our Judgement Day. We will either sink or swim depending on what happens here and now. If you cannot understand that the rot has set into our society so deeply that a firm breeze would be enough to knock the whole building down then there is no hope for you. Once you overstand the magnitude of the problems we are facing it's painfully obvious that the current methods of fixing them will not work. Nothing we have devised yet, except for Marx's theory of revolution, comes close to being a viable solution - and even Marxism is too right-wing and too slow in implementing changes to solve the crisis.

You're sounding more and more like David Icke everyday with the bullshit you spout. "This century is our judgement day" being my favourite.

You think they didn't have social problems 100 years ago? 200 years ago? 300 years ago? You're so out of touch it's unreal.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

It's true that ISIS need to be exterminated. These animals simply can't be considered human anymore. But even when they are stopped, that doesn't halt the symptom of the problem, which is Islamic fundamentalism. Another "ISIS" will eventually come out of the woodwork again. 10 years ago, it was Al-Qaeda, today it's ISIS. The problem is that the people with enough power and political clout don't seem that bothered in tackling Islamofascism. There is a lot of self denial and lack of honesty. While everyone is talking about ISIS, Boko Haram is also still carrying out unspeakable acts of terror (open shooting, beheadings, kidnappings) against the Christians in Northern Nigeria on a similar scale to what ISIS are doing in Iraq and Syria. It just gets less media attention.

http://www.voanews.com/content/suspected-boko-haram-kidnap-100-in-northern-nigeria/2414283.html

This time around, they kidnapped over 100 boys. It will probably get less media attention.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I havent watched the video or shared it and am not scared or being irrational. Did you actually read what i wrote ? I am not suddenly getting all scared of islam, I have many muslim friends

I was discussing with Seif British jihadism, and the fundamental question that is part of that-what it means to be British that tends to be overlooked seeing as the murderer has a london accent. I wouldnt pretend to understand whats going on in Beirut, but can tell you a bit about Asians in the UK.

In British society, the appeal of the jihadist youth culture represents the crystallisation of, first, a sense of detachment from the cultural values of Western society, and secondly an open rejection of those values. What often looks like a sudden conversion to radical Islam by an impetuous or confused young man is actually usually preceded by the detachment of that individual from a way of life that has failed to provide him with any purpose. Sometimes, this conversion mutates into an intense hatred of the West, and in a few cases it can lead people towards an ISIS training camp in Syria.

Actually that was aimed at TOPTB, not you. I only quoted your post because it put in better words what I was trying to say and better explained that even if the crimes are hideous they are not a threat to civilized life.

Sorry, I would have explained more but I had assumed you had read the discussion between me and TOPTB on the previous couple of pages.

[Fulham Broadway 16,862]

Actually that was aimed at TOPTB, not you. I only quoted your post because it put in better words what I was trying to say and better explained that even if the crimes are hideous they are not a threat to civilized life.

Sorry, I would have explained more but I had assumed you had read the discussion between me and TOPTB on the previous couple of pages.

Lolz. I did later actually think you were doing a Tom and been drinking

[Fulham Broadway 16,862]

It's true that ISIS need to be exterminated. These animals simply can't be considered human anymore. But even when they are stopped, that doesn't halt the symptom of the problem, which is Islamic fundamentalism. Another "ISIS" will eventually come out of the woodwork again. 10 years ago, it was Al-Qaeda, today it's ISIS. The problem is that the people with enough power and political clout don't seem that bothered in tackling Islamofascism. There is a lot of self denial and lack of honesty. While everyone is talking about ISIS, Boko Haram is also still carrying out unspeakable acts of terror (open shooting, beheadings, kidnappings) against the Christians in Northern Nigeria on a similar scale to what ISIS are doing in Iraq and Syria. It just gets less media attention.

http://www.voanews.com/content/suspected-boko-haram-kidnap-100-in-northern-nigeria/2414283.html

This time around, they kidnapped over 100 boys. It will probably get less media attention.

Youre right the tackling of it is selective. Mujahadeen were the US best friend in the 80s. ISIS only became a 'problem' when they threatened US interests in Iraq. That is what is wrong with intervention for selfish reasons dressed up as altruism, it creates more problems than it solves.

The West’s handwringing and prevarication over the fate of the Yazidi people facilitated the rise of ISIS. First, the Western invasion of Iraq destabilised the careful political equilibrium in that nation, allowing the emergence of political and sectarian tensions which had been held relatively in check for a significant period of time. Behind the mayhem in northern Iraq, there’s a larger story about the lethal folly of casually removing state structures and state institutions in divided, fragile nations, as the West did to Iraq in the 2000s

One of the biggest myths is that teh West did not intervene in Syria. It has been destabilising and de-legitimising Assads regime for several years, again creating a vacuum into which ISIS can flourish.

Now theres the ‘Something Must Be Done’ lobby, the ‘Do Something’ campaigners for Western intervention overseas, actively discouraging and even demonising political scrutiny of the complex causes of global conflicts...bbbbut legitimising further colonial intervention in the future, thus the divide and rule so beloved of 19th century plunderers, will continue.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Both Nazism and Communism are prime examples of a cultural victory.

This is at the very heart of what I am saying:

You want to fight ISIS? Start by not watching that video and if you do watch it, don't share it. They want you scared. I already told you about how they use professional effects on their videos to make them scarier. Their power is in how scary they look and sound.

They have about 50-70 thousand fighters, less than any of the armies in the region, yet they've cause havoc in the whole region and scared the whole world. They currently hold regions with millions of civilians who do not support them. But no one dares stand up to them.

You are currently exactly as they want you. Scared and subsequently irrational.

There's nothing wrong with being concerned about the possibility of attacks by 'extremist' Muslims in this country. We've had it before on the streets of London from a group of people whose values simply don't correspond with our own. They are an enemy, they need to be dealt with.

That's not irrational.

It's true that ISIS need to be exterminated. These animals simply can't be considered human anymore. But even when they are stopped, that doesn't halt the symptom of the problem, which is Islamic fundamentalism.

Spot on.

[Kieran. 6,317]

It is when youre being blatantly Islamophobic.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

There's nothing wrong with being concerned about the possibility of attacks by 'extremist' Muslims in this country. We've had it before on the streets of London from a group of people whose values simply don't correspond with our own. They are an enemy, they need to be dealt with.

That's not irrational.

It's not irrational to want to carpet bomb a huge region with millions of civilians in it?!

It is completely irrational to think that you are the targeted and under threat here when an entire region has been absolutely devastated by these extremists.

I can't leave my house without getting stuck in a 2-3 hour traffic because every single car has to be searched for explosives at the entrance of the city. You literally can't park anywhere because no one would let you for fear of car bombs .More than half the stores in my area have gone bankrupt and closed down. And we live in probably the most stable country in the region at the moment.

Tens of thousands have been killed. Countries like Syria and Iraq have been completely destroyed. There are millions of refugees. And things are only getting worse. And you think that you are the ones under threat and you are the ones targeted? Because these barbaric mercenaries don't correspond with your values? With what society in the world does beheading and cannibalism agree?

This isn't a British issue and this isn't a British issue, this is first and foremost an imminent threat to the existence of the middle east. This is secondly a humanitarian and global cultural issue that the whole world needs to stand up together.

They are a much lesser threat to you than smoking, alcoholism or even speeding. What are you doing for those causes?

You aren't at war and your values are not under attack. That's just what your government and media want you to believe because a scared citizen at war would do and justify almost anything in the name of patriotism.

[The only place to be 11,313]

It's not irrational to want to carpet bomb a huge region with millions of civilians in it?!

It is completely irrational to think that you are the targeted and under threat here when an entire region has been absolutely devastated by these extremists.

I can't leave my house without getting stuck in a 2-3 hour traffic because every single car has to be searched for explosives at the entrance of the city. You literally can't park anywhere because no one would let you for fear of car bombs .More than half the stores in my area have gone bankrupt and closed down. And we live in probably the most stable country in the region at the moment.

Move then.

This isn't a British issue and this isn't a British issue, this is first and foremost an imminent threat to the existence of the middle east. This is secondly a humanitarian and global cultural issue that the whole world needs to stand up together.

My concern is Britain, not the Middle East.

They are a much lesser threat to you than smoking, alcoholism or even speeding. What are you doing for those causes?

Bizarre comparison.

You aren't at war and your values are not under attack. That's just what your government and media want you to believe because a scared citizen at war would do and justify almost anything in the name of patriotism.

So 7/7 didn't happen? Lee Rigby wasn't half-decapitated on the street by two Muslims?

Look I know that there's a train of thought that our evil media is in bed with the government to scare the population but that does a disservice to the level of despicableness of the views some people in this country hold. That type of thought is against centuries of progressive work done in this country to give people certain freedoms. We won't give them up easily.

[The only place to be 11,313]

It is when youre being blatantly Islamophobic.

I don't like Islam as an ideology. Sorry, but I was raised to have respect for women, homosexuals and people's individual freedoms. I also don't like a lot of other religions, cults or sects.

Now I know kiddywinks nowadays throw around words like Islamophobic (especially on the Internet, behind their keyboards but never actually to someone's face) but that's their choice. Personally I think it's reductive and a little flippant but each to their own.

Fortunately I live in a country where I have the freedom to express a dislike for ideologies, religions and cults.

I also dislike Scientology and Catholicism.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Islamophobes defending their Islamophobia? Bye.

[Spike 12,049]

Islam over history has been quite progressive only in the last half century or so has Islam been plagued with 'Jihadists', extremists and backwards thinking. It wasn't until the 1950s that Islamic fundalmentalism starting existing.

Islam has never been the problem. The people in charge of these Muslim countries are the problem, they've betrayed their people and let them down for a long time.

[Roquila 1,335]

I actually understand people that are scared of Muslims. The shit you see everyday on TV is scary.

But as Spike said, Islam isn't Islam anymore, it changed too. Religions have become way more extreme and violent these 10 years.

[We Hate Scouse 10,286]

I don't like Islam as an ideology. Sorry, but I was raised to have respect for women, homosexuals and people's individual freedoms. I also don't like a lot of other religions, cults or sects.

Now I know kiddywinks nowadays throw around words like Islamophobic (especially on the Internet, behind their keyboards but never actually to someone's face) but that's their choice. Personally I think it's reductive and a little flippant but each to their own.

Fortunately I live in a country where I have the freedom to express a dislike for ideologies, religions and cults.

I also dislike Scientology and Catholicism.

What's your view on religion as a whole?

[The only place to be 11,313]

What's your view on religion as a whole?

Briefly...

Most of the time they're created by an elite (usually men) to control the masses. They're inherently corrupt(ing), dangerous but I can also see the appeal of them. They tend to have an unhealthy obsession with women's sexuality, fearing it and going to quite extreme lengths to 'control' it.

I really don't have a problem with people being religious though. I'm sure for many people it actually helps them in their day-to-day lives and that's probably a beautiful thing, but the problem is when it affects others that I take issue with it. Things like gay rights, women's rights etc. are invariably affected by religious beliefs and that's when it is open to criticism.

Generally though I treat religion like a treat any other type of ideological set of beliefs which is why words like Islamophobe seem so silly. There are probably hundreds of religious or political beliefs I dislike to varying degrees, yet that is the only one I have a phobia about?? Why not Scientoligiphobe (if that's even the word) or Naziphobe?

Anyway, a very brief outline of what I think about religion. The reason I bring up Scientology is because it's a modern-day miracle in that it's a religion/cult that you can clearly see has been fabricated by a bit of a nutter, yet it's not any different from any other religion out there. It's essentially a blueprint for deconstructing all other types of cult of belief systems. Anyways....

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I actually understand people that are scared of Muslims. The shit you see everyday on TV is scary.

But as Spike said, Islam isn't Islam anymore, it changed too. Religions have become way more extreme and violent these 10 years.

People assume now that religion is the cause of violence and want it scrapped from existence. It's not religion that's the problem, it's human nature to fight.

In the past, people fought to gain power and could fight as they please because of less international laws. (without laws, some in Israel will crush Gaza totally, many more ISIS/bokoharams will force Islam/sharia laws down our throats or kill us, Russia will take Ukraine by force, People who want to force democracy on everyone so they can be on top economically ie. indirect colonisation will be more)

People are naive to think everyone has moved on, from people who kill for personal interest and gain. Humans are humans, we want more power/money.

How will weapon producers sell their weapons if there is no conflicts?? There will always be conflict for these reasons, we can only hope for smaller scale conflicts for the sake of human life