Politics & Stuff

[haranr 485]

If you took the leap of faith and ceased fire wouldn't you guys be saving some money in weaponry? I would think so. From what I've heard wars are expensive.

The money that we could have 'earned' from that would be better moved into the economy.

Again, the situation in Israel financially isn't good. The majority of the people are not living 'well' they would not appreciate that their money goes to other people, not citizens, and that is 100 % legitimate.

[Dion 2,476]

The money that we could have 'earned' from that would be better moved into the economy.

Wouldn't it be good for economy to work in a state of peace and being able to have a commercial partner that lives just by your borders? Wars are wonderful for the economy. For the economy of the countries supplying you, because your labor force is occupied fighting the enemy, not producing any trading goods, thus making a case for importing weaponry, more food etc. Good for them, definitely not good for you. Achieving peace with your neighbors is a good way to improve your economy.

[haranr 485]

Wouldn't it be good for economy to work in a state of peace and being able to have a commercial partner that lives just at your border? Wars are wonderful for the economy. For the economy of the countries supplying you, because your labor force is occupied fighting the enemy, not producing any trading goods, thus making a case for importing weaponry, more food etc. Good for them, definitely not good for you. Achieving peace with your neighbors is a good way to improve your economy.

No. You are simply wrong not because what you are saying is wrong. What you are saying is true but you don't understand the situation.

[Dion 2,476]

No. You are simply wrong not because what you are saying is wrong. What you are saying is true but you don't understand the situation.

Then explain it to me. I'm trying to understand what the problem is.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

I agree 100 percent.

As you said, Of course there are no guarantees, but that is the most likely, if not the ONLY way peace can be achieved.

Sadly, most Israelis need that 'guarantee' and you MUST admit they have a point. I support your claims 100 percent though.

They can choose to say "We want peace, we do not want to fight, we want a country". The shit right-wing Israeli goverment will delay them from a state as long as they can but in the end they will have to give it to them. It's a better approach than resist with 'terror'.

You also have to remember something buddy, such a proactive peaceful approach by Israel, would put neighbouring countries in a tight spot. They will be forced to help out maintain such achievements and as crazy as this might sound they will actually face Hamas or any other Islamic extremist group that rises. Btw such cooperation between Israel and Egypt already exists but very limited. The Egyptian military has been fighting on daily basis in Sinai now for months and taking out extremists. Some of which are Hamas members. Now that means there is a clear breach of the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel. Yet Israel does nothing about it. You know why? Because both of them agreed on it, as extremists might target Israel from Sinai, causing a conflict between Egypt and Israel. Countries like Egypt and others will cooperate with Israel to end extremists. Actually you will have more partners than you think. Strategic partners.

[Dion 2,476]

I'm going to elaborate an analogy to showcase more or less how I see the situation. And forgive me if it ends up sounding a tad simplistic or if I got something wrong.

You see, I have been living in this house for quite some years now. Then one day, out of the blue, someone knocks at my door and says that this dude who is 6'6'' tall (while I am 5'10'') has the right to be living in my house. Of course I don't like it and I want to fight him and take him out. But in the end he's stronger and wins - as I don't have anywhere else to go, I stay in the house and try to keep my losses at a minimum. However, this dude now has decided half of my house is not enough for him and he takes by force the second bathroom too, leaving me with none. And then he keeps taking more and more until I'm left to live in my backyard and sleep in the dog's house. Can you blame me for taking my rockets I used to hide below the dog's house and wanting to blow his face? Unfortunately he has a force shield and I can't hit him directly, he only takes minor injuries from the explosions around, and he comes in the backyard and beats the shit out of me whenever I try it. He says he's only defending himself from me and asks me to stop. He claims he doesn't understand why can't I just accept and live in the place where he left me to live.

How different could it have gone if after settling in my house he offered to discuss which part I wanted to keep and which part he wanted, or better, if everything was shared as common space? If he offered to split the costs for internet and cable tv? If he volunteered to take turns for taking the clothes to the laundry? I mean, it's true I lost some freedom and space and I'm still pissed about that. But I can't take him out by force and his stay here has increased my quality of life despite everything. Maybe I'm willing to compromise, maybe it could be good for both of us. However, had he took the place I consider mine with all my stuff to himself by force and left me to live a miserable life I'm pretty sure I would be more willing to kill him than to make any kind of deal.

The first situation is what happened in simple terms. The second is what Choulo19 proposed and that may or may not be out of reach at this point.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

The Hamas Charter reads like a hate manual. And these are the people Jews are supposed to reach a compromise with?

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

For once, an unbiased piece on the Israel - Palestine situation from the BBC of all places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-13331522

[EBH 283]

The best chances of a peaceful settlement went away when the moderates like Yasser Arafat passed away. It'll be a long time until both sides have leaders that aren't aggressive.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

The best chances of a peaceful settlement went away when the moderates like Yasser Arafat passed away. It'll be a long time until both sides have leaders that aren't aggressive.

I disagree mate, as Abbass is much more moderate. But the real loss was Isaac Rabin. There is also quiet an impressive guy called Shlomo Ben Ami. Quiet impressive and moderate

[EBH 283]

I disagree mate, as Abbass is much more moderate. But the real loss was Isaac Rabin. There is also quiet an impressive guy called Shlomo Ben Ami. Quiet impressive and moderate

Anwar Sadat was the best of them all though

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Anwar Sadat was the best of them all though

Sadat was the smartest of them all. And if the rest of the Arabs would have listened at the time, this region what have been so different. He got Egypt what it wanted and Israel what they needed. May he rest in peace.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I'm going to elaborate an analogy to showcase more or less how I see the situation. And forgive me if it ends up sounding a tad simplistic or if I got something wrong.

You see, I have been living in this house for quite some years now. Then one day, out of the blue, someone knocks at my door and says that this dude who is 6'6'' tall (while I am 5'10'') has the right to be living in my house. Of course I don't like it and I want to fight him and take him out. But in the end he's stronger and wins - as I don't have anywhere else to go, I stay in the house and try to keep my losses at a minimum. However, this dude now has decided half of my house is not enough for him and he takes by force the second bathroom too, leaving me with none. And then he keeps taking more and more until I'm left to live in my backyard and sleep in the dog's house. Can you blame me for taking my rockets I used to hide below the dog's house and wanting to blow his face? Unfortunately he has a force shield and I can't hit him directly, he only takes minor injuries from the explosions around, and he comes in the backyard and beats the shit out of me whenever I try it. He says he's only defending himself from me and asks me to stop. He claims he doesn't understand why can't I just accept and live in the place where he left me to live.

How different could it have gone if after settling in my house he offered to discuss which part I wanted to keep and which part he wanted, or better, if everything was shared as common space? If he offered to split the costs for internet and cable tv? If he volunteered to take turns for taking the clothes to the laundry? I mean, it's true I lost some freedom and space and I'm still pissed about that. But I can't take him out by force and his stay here has increased my quality of life despite everything. Maybe I'm willing to compromise, maybe it could be good for both of us. However, had he took the place I consider mine with all my stuff to himself by force and left me to live a miserable life I'm pretty sure I would be more willing to kill him than to make any kind of deal.

The first situation is what happened in simple terms. The second is what Choulo19 proposed and that may or may not be out of reach at this point.

I disagree mate, as Abbass is much more moderate. But the real loss was Isaac Rabin. There is also quiet an impressive guy called Shlomo Ben Ami. Quiet impressive and moderate

Yeah, but Arafat was almost the sole representative of the Palestinian people while Abbas barely represents himself. He's really not that like from what I know.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Yeah, but Arafat was almost the sole representative of the Palestinian people while Abbas barely represents himself. He's really not that like from what I know.

I didn't say Arafat wasn't a representative. He was by all means. But he was the symbol of resistance. Not the moderates. I remember his comment about the peace treaty at the time. He is a true face for the resistance. Definetely not a radical, but you can't say he was a moderate. Maybe in the last 10 years before he died. Abbass is more political. Not as popular as Arafat is ofcourse, but definitely more moderate.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I didn't say Arafat wasn't a representative. He was by all means. But he was the symbol of resistance. Not the moderates. I remember his comment about the peace treaty at the time. He is a true face for the resistance. Definetely not a radical, but you can't say he was a moderate. Maybe in the last 10 years before he died. Abbass is more political. Not as popular as Arafat is ofcourse, but definitely more moderate.

Yeah, I didn't say he was a moderator either (though definitely not a radical or extremist), but what I was alluding to is that there would probably be a higher chance of the two sides reaching agreements with someone like Arafat (especially in his last years) than someone like Abbas. Being moderate is not enough, you need someone who represents the people.