Politics & Stuff

[We Hate Scouse 10,329]

Media reporting has been pretty disgusting. It's the small things like how they'll say one israeli killed as a headline and put "300 Palestinian militants dead" in the sub-heading. Or also how the BBC fails to report the hundreds of thousands of people protesting all over Europe, including London!

It's been reported on the radio stations here. Recently the BBC haven't really reported on protests of pretty much any group. I'm pretty sure the governments put an injunction on them doing so to try and avoid causes growing in publicity as it costs a ridiculous amount of money to police. It seems to be since the English Defence League got big.

I do kinda disagree with the reporting of it now. At first it was shocking, but most media outlets now seem to have improved on it.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You do it everyday, so dont be a sensitive hypocrite who gets all touchy everytime others call you out!

Grow up...

Point to one insult I've used against a member of this forum OR admit that you are a liar.

ONE insult. Go.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I've read a few times about Zionism within the British government and media, but I really don't see it. Judaism in Britain isn't big at all from what I see. I understand the level of reporting in Gaza isn't huge, but the majority of news outlets to me appear to be against what Israel are doing. Am I missing something?

Actually Zionism in British politics has been very strong. Britain was were Zionism first got most of it's early power by recruiting people in power to their movement at the time. People like Arthur Balfour (Google Balfour declaration), Walter Rothschild or the whole Rothschild family for that matter, Mark Sykes (see Sykes Picot secret agreement)...etc. Then it was Britain it self that oversaw the immigration Jews from all over the world to Palestine when it occupied the region after WWI and oversaw the throwing out of millions of Palestinians and destruction of hundred of villages in 1948 to be replaced by Israeli settlements. Yes, there have always been people who disagree with all of it like there are now, but not nearly enough to make a real difference. Even now, despite all the massacres and all the images that can be seen by all, the official stance by the British government has constantly been: "Israel has the right to defend itself."

As for the media, apart from the government control and filtering over it, there have always been Zionists in power inside of the mainstream media. You see and believe what Rupert Murdoch wants you to. And it is glaring clear from the asymmetrical coverage. Apart from the UNRWA school massacre and the four kids playing on the beach, there really hasn't been any coverage of the actual atrocities. Even you yourself have said a couple of times that certain things are not being reported in the British media. Did you hear about the air strike on a 6-story building that killed 28 people from the same family including 18 children and 5 women? Did you hear about the strike that killed 20 people of the same family this morning minutes before the ceasefire? The numerous attacks on hospitals? The half of a dozen ambulances destroyed and paramedics killed and injured? Can you imagine something remotely similar to this happening on the other side in Israel and BBC not dedicating a week to it?

The numbers are reported, but people are dehumanized. They are turned into faceless numbers and statistics. It's small things like "100 people killed in Israel today" instead of "by Israel", calling the Israelis Israelis but the Palestinians Hamas or worse, 'others':

The message is that those dying are not like you, so you don't need to sympathize with them and hence you don't need to do anything about it.

That said, the British media is still better than that in US simply because awareness of the British people regarding this (and most political issues to be honest) is much higher.

[Alee. 182]

Exactly. Dehumanizing the enemy is the first and foremost step in any war, that's how you win the PR side of it and get people to back you unconditionally and Israel has been doing it very very well for years.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Hey @TOPTB, how does it feel being the most hypocritical user on this forum? You abuse members almost everyday, pull your fucking head out.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Hey @TOPTB, how does it feel being the most hypocritical user on this forum? You abuse members almost everyday, pull your fucking head out.

Give this man some likes, clearly he's on his knees begging for them.

Although maybe you can help your friend find some instances of me insulting people in the manner you chose to....from behind your keyboard.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Lmao leave me alone, you're on my ignore list, congratulations.

[twobanger 13]

You're not really getting what I'm saying. Hamas are bad, but they are very new to the struggle. Irrelevant of Hamas's existence or anything they fire at Israel, the Palestinians aren't allowed to exists since the inception of Israel and they are headed to being wiped off the map. They were slaughtered long before Hamas and they will continue to be slaughtered even if Hamas disappears into thin air.

You can't possibly compare them to Germany and Japan. No one wanted to erase Japan and Germany off the map.

I talk about Hamas because they're in power now. I won't lie and claim to be a scholar on the conflict, but I'm semiliterate, mostly of the Israeli interpretation of it as an American.

What I'm saying is that continuing on the same path will lead to your children and grandchildren suffering in the same way you are now; that militarily right now, the Palestinians are in a position of being annihilated. For their sake why not attempt peace on Israeli terms that may hurt now but may provide them a future free of the suffering they're experiencing now? If Palestine stops fighting and in return asks for Gaza to be rebuilt. That they ask for adequate schools and hospitals, education for the young and trade skills for adults given a priority.

All American Presidents at the end of their terms are looking for a legacy. Obama would do anything to be able to claim peace in the Middle East came on his watch. The rest of the West would fall in line to help. The pressure on Israel would be too great not to go along. Since this is a Chelsea forum, I'll end it this way: At some time we need to stop reliving history and start making it.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I talk about Hamas because they're in power now. I won't lie and claim to be a scholar on the conflict, but I'm semiliterate, mostly of the Israeli interpretation of it as an American.

What I'm saying is that continuing on the same path will lead to your children and grandchildren suffering in the same way you are now; that militarily right now, the Palestinians are in a position of being annihilated. For their sake why not attempt peace on Israeli terms that may hurt now but may provide them a future free of the suffering they're experiencing now? If Palestine stops fighting and in return asks for Gaza to be rebuilt. That they ask for adequate schools and hospitals, education for the young and trade skills for adults given a priority.

All American Presidents at the end of their terms are looking for a legacy. Obama would do anything to be able to claim peace in the Middle East came on his watch. The rest of the West would fall in line to help. The pressure on Israel would be too great not to go along. Since this is a Chelsea forum, I'll end it this way: At some time we need to stop reliving history and start making it.

Without getting into the ethical issues in that, there is one simple logical flaw in your 'suggestion': Israel does not want peace with the Palestinians, certainly not permanent peace. Zionism aims at making a Jewish ONLY state between the Nile and the Euphrates. It is no secret. For that to happen, Palestinians need to be deported or wiped out. Resistance is the ONLY choice for the Palestinian people to continue to exist.

The Palestinians have gone through tragedy after tragedy for 66 years, they can't be frightened into surrendering. There are A LOT more pro-Hamas people in Palestine today than there was 19 days ago. This assault has served as a reminder of the importance of the resistance for the Palestinians and indeed for most of the Arabs as well.

[dave30 728]

Israel "secured" the future of their citizens at the expense of thousands of other innocent people. But well, that's all fine. After all, they are "winning cunts"...

Stop your tears you bore, already said I don't agree with it. Just putting things across from a different angle.

[dave30 728]

Dave, surely the only relevant frame of reference concerns the slaughter of women and children by a superpower.

I find nothing to admire in how strong and powerful israel are in some kind of Nietszchien fan worship

Yer I fully agree. There's no point continuing to exist as a nation if you've lost your soul and dehumanised your people. However, some people will measure the debate as such I'm afraid whether you like it or not.

[Alee. 182]

As a Pakistani I've protested and condemned every single one of those things. Do I have your blessing to continue supporting my opinion?

Two wrong's do not make a right. Just because someone else somewhere else did something just as, or more, terrible does not negate or downplay the massacre Israel is carrying out. Atleast, even the defenders of the Israeli apartheid system are equating Israel's actions to those of the rest of the people mentioned in that quote.

Oh and thousands in Pakistan, not hundreds.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

You see, all those crimes, as terrible as they are, are being committed by terrorists groups that are being fought, or countries that are being punished for causing such atrocities (can't really compare the situation in Turkey to this, not that the international response to that was not shameful as well).

But Israel is the only army in the world that is (at least publicly), not only supported, but also funded and armed to kill hundreds of civilians; and by the 'enforcers of democracy, equality and human values', I might add.

And for the last time, just because people are dying elsewhere, it doesn't make it right for you to kill civilians like they were bugs in your house.

[Fulham Broadway 17,339]

I've read a few times about Zionism within the British government and media, but I really don't see it. Judaism in Britain isn't big at all from what I see. I understand the level of reporting in Gaza isn't huge, but the majority of news outlets to me appear to be against what Israel are doing. Am I missing something?

We'll leave the US at the moment but their zionist influence is even greater than the UK.

The UK political parties all have their separate ''Friends of Israel'' groups -.these are in Partliament and the House of Lords The first was the ''Liberal Democrats Friends of Israel'' whose aim is '' to maximise support for Israel'', Labour have the same, both Prime Ministers, that murdering cunt Blair and Brown were both members, along with many backbenchers. There are most however in the tories. The payback is from Israeli billionaires with ''donations'' to the parties. Or bribes to you and me.

Then there are the cross party support groups for Israel, they get nice freebie holidays at Red sea resorts.as well.

On top of all that, to keep the media in check is the thing called BICOM -The British Isareli Communications Centre. If anything untoward is shown about Israel, then they come down like a ton of shit. Add The anti -defamation league which actively seeks out anything perceived as anti-Israeli and freedom of the press is a joke. On top of all that if you take Rupert Murdoch and Conrad Black as two of the biggest media owners in the World and discover they have huge business interests in Israel, it does lead reporting to look a tad biased....

[Alee. 182]

Keeping the middle east on the side for a second, has anyone been following the war going in Pakistan right now? The military has launched an offensive against the Taliban, the biggest in scale since 9/11,

I wrote a random blogpost about it earlier if anyone wants to read it: http://my.telegraph.co.uk/alirafi/alirafi/10/pakistan-on-the-brink/

I don't think there has been much international coverage of this, although I can understand given the middle east crisis.

[Stingray 9,441]

So, your from Be'er Sheva. I understand your retorics a bit better now.

http://972mag.com/beer-sheva-a-city-with-no-refuge-from-rockets/93537/

Which one of them are you? You do realise your IDF facebook/twitter world and posts are getting more and more marginalised. The world looks upon Israels actions more and more as pure immorality.

As I said, i will question you as an individual - you vehemently support them - when the current actions are qualified as war crimes.

In my town, noone escaped after we were freed from germans and after the shoah came through. All who participated preaching violence where simply shot. Think about it....

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Keeping the middle east on the side for a second, has anyone been following the war going in Pakistan right now? The military has launched an offensive against the Taliban, the biggest in scale since 9/11,

I wrote a random blogpost about it earlier if anyone wants to read it: http://my.telegraph.co.uk/alirafi/alirafi/10/pakistan-on-the-brink/

I don't think there has been much international coverage of this, although I can understand given the middle east crisis.

Nice blog. Frankly all that I have heard were the drone attacks by the U.S and lately wave of attack by Taliban on different facilities, including an airport (if I can recall correctly). I think I understand that Pakistan as a country (economy, education....etc), like Egypt and others, form an encouraging niche for radicals if left unattended. I might be wrong, but that is what I get from my Pakistani friends here. I would appreciated if you provide your info on the matter.

I don't really understand what Taliban is hoping to gain out of this. Usually, such groups seek to some way or another rule. Pakistan is no small country and it has a very strong army. Taliban have been really bombarded in Afghanistan, and though still a threat, but much weaker. I can't understand what are they possibly hoping to achieve. I understand what they are trying to achieve in Egypt in the area of Sinai. The peace agreement with Israel, doesn't allow Egyptian military to be present there, so they are taking advantage of that hoping to establish some sort of state there. What about Pakistan?

[Alee. 182]

Nice blog. Frankly all that I have heard were the drone attacks by the U.S and lately wave of attack by Taliban on different facilities, including an airport (if I can recall correctly). I think I understand that Pakistan as a country (economy, education....etc), like Egypt and others, form an encouraging niche for radicals if left unattended. I might be wrong, but that is what I get from my Pakistani friends here. I would appreciated if you provide your info on the matter.

I don't really understand what Taliban is hoping to gain out of this. Usually, such groups seek to some way or another rule. Pakistan is no small country and it has a very strong army. Taliban have been really bombarded in Afghanistan, and though still a threat, but much weaker. I can't understand what are they possibly hoping to achieve. I understand what they are trying to achieve in Egypt in the area of Sinai. The peace agreement with Israel, doesn't allow Egyptian military to be present there, so they are taking advantage of that hoping to establish some sort of state there. What about Pakistan?

The Afghan Taliban and Pakistani Taliban are different factions, the northern regions of Pakistan have little writ of the state, and the bigger picture is an emirate carved out from that region and areas of Afghanistan. Pakistan, being a nuclear-power and one of the biggest military force in the world, has had a complex relationship with them. The Military used these people in proxy wars over the years, and they've sort of turned rogue and have an agenda of their own (or foreign backed if you agree with a segment). They've been responsible for thousands of deaths all over the country. In the recent dialogue we tried they wanted us to impose their version of Shariah in the country, the contention has now led to a full scale war. The problem is, the Taliban too have weapons and funding from various sources. Pakistan has it's share of enemies.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Keeping the middle east on the side for a second, has anyone been following the war going in Pakistan right now? The military has launched an offensive against the Taliban, the biggest in scale since 9/11,

I wrote a random blogpost about it earlier if anyone wants to read it: http://my.telegraph.co.uk/alirafi/alirafi/10/pakistan-on-the-brink/

I don't think there has been much international coverage of this, although I can understand given the middle east crisis.

Very insightful. I haven't heard much about this except for the odd bit on the news. The situation sounds complicated. May I ask, how does the US feel about the operation. Obviously, they won't want Taliban to gain much power, but similarly I don't imagine they'd want them completely crushed because they could come in handy as was the case in Syria.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

The Afghan Taliban and Pakistani Taliban are different factions, the northern regions of Pakistan have little writ of the state, and the bigger picture is an emirate carved out from that region and areas of Afghanistan. Pakistan, being a nuclear-power and one of the biggest military force in the world, has had a complex relationship with them. The Military used these people in proxy wars over the years, and they've sort of turned rogue and have an agenda of their own (or foreign backed if you agree with a segment). They've been responsible for thousands of deaths all over the country. In the recent dialogue we tried they wanted us to impose their version of Shariah in the country, the contention has now led to a full scale war. The problem is, the Taliban too have weapons and funding from various sources. Pakistan has it's share of enemies.

Sounds familiar . They all, (Islamic militant groups), follow the same agenda I guess. They also tend to follow a similar pattern to enforce their power. They tend to create pockets of instability, from which they can operate and carry out further operations. I am glad your country is not taking this lightly. They only way to get rid of them is by eliminating them. Ideological reform doesn't seem to be working much (at least in Egypt it has failed during the era of President Sadat 1970-1980). However, it will definitely be hard if they are residing in an area with civilian population. This means your military would have to carry out continuous precise operation which will definitely make this a long term war. Intelligence will be a huge factor these operations.