Politics & Stuff

[Fulham Broadway 17,332]

Retired British colonel on BBC this morning, he said the best way to sort out Iraq is parachute Blair and Bush in, seeing as they created the whole bloody mess.

He has a point.....

[The only place to be 11,313]

How am I positing an invasion of the Middle East -if youre going to twist things to suit some Sun Reader agenda, try and be a bit clever about it

Bernard Manning, Sun-reader....you're going to run out of freshman pejorative terms at this rate.

You are either for intervention or not. If , I ask again, Iraq wanted regime change in the UK , youre happy about this are you ? Or is only British intervention allowed, which results in Blowback, or terrorism as the authorities like to call it

I'm for intervention that frees oppressed peoples. It doesn't have to be purely militarily but can be culturally and economically.

If Iraq wanted regime change in this country then I assume it would be to institute their own brand of medieval philosophy, ergo I would be against it. I'm a firm proponent of western, liberal, progressive ideology that enfranchises ALL people regardless of gender, sexual preference, colour or creed.

All the staff are well aware of your changing stance on Chelsea players, its quite embarassing.

So that's you, rmpr, choulo et al....oh no.

Again, if you'd actually like to back up your.....sorry, couldn't finish that sentence without laughing.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Retired British colonel on BBC this morning, he said the best way to sort out Iraq is parachute Blair and Bush in, seeing as they created the whole bloody mess.

He has a point.....

What a great line. It wouldn't actually have any real-world positive effect but is that really what we're after here?

[The only place to be 11,313]

Yes, you did. The root of this ideology is the south of what was the Soviet Union where your country and the US spent millions on arming and funding extremists groups to fight against the soviet union

Actually the ideology I'm referring to is hundreds of years old. It seems that your post was written on a misunderstood premise.

[Fulham Broadway 17,332]

I'm for intervention that frees oppressed peoples. It doesn't have to be purely militarily but can be culturally and economically. If Iraq wanted regime change in this country then I assume it would be to institute their own brand of medieval philosophy, ergo I would be against it. I'm a firm proponent of western, liberal, progressive ideology that enfranchises ALL people regardless of gender, sexual preference, colour or creed.

So then, who decides what oppressed people are, you ? Blair ? what level of oppression ?

The health service under Saddam was better that the UK for example, so should they have invaded because we were oppressed ? Or is that only up to Western countries ?

The 'medieval philosophies' as you call them , as I have already explained. were unleashed after the toppling of the Bathist regime, MI6 told the government thats what would happen, but they ignored the advice

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Actually the ideology I'm referring to is hundreds of years old. It seems that your post was written on a misunderstood premise.

It seems you're attempt to run away from all the facts I made in that post is a bit too obvious, so I'll quote them again for you:

Yes, you did. The root of this ideology is the south of what was the Soviet Union where your country and the US spent millions on arming and funding extremists groups to fight against the soviet union. More importantly, millions were paid to Sheikhs to promote this ideology of Jihad among people in Mosques (especially in Friday prayers) and convincing Muslims that it is their duty. The religious leaders of this movement who later became the leaders of Al Qaeda, all spent some time in their lives living in the UK. Ben Laden, Al Zarqawi...etc. All of them. Look them up.

The ideology only crept into the middle east after invasion of Iraq. They had a place with no order and peace to grow and with people that were willing to do anything to fight the invading forces. Contrary to what you are told, very very few minorities in Iraq supported western involvement, let alone an invasion. They hated Saddm, but not as much as the UK and US.

But your governments never really severed all the ties with them. I remember in 2004 or 2005 when a Qaeda related group killed a few Lebanese Army soldiers. The army hunted them and killing and arresting a bunch of them. That is when Condalisa Rice herself decided to come to Lebanon to convince our President at the time Emile Lahoud to release the extremists, funny right?

The US knew they could still use them and they did. A revolution was shaping up in several countries at the start of the 2010s. It had absolutely nothing to do with religion or even politics. It started with a guy setting himself on fire because the police had confiscated his vegetable cart! But after they lost an ally in Tunisia the US decided to ride the wave...well where it suited them at least. They brought their old extremist friends to the party. They had a beef to settle with practically all the existing regimes in the area, The NATO armed and funded them in Lybia and got what they wanted, they backed them in Egypt (different group, but not too dissimilar) but Syria was different. Al Assad had a strong army and the backing of A LOT of his people. Billions of dollars worth of weapons were given to them, and to be fair, secular Syrian rebels. But the secular rebels disappeared in time and part of the extremists groups turned against the US and the other extremists groups and formed what is known as IS.

Those barbarians you talk about have never in their history fought with anything except for 'your' weapons. And they never bought those weapons, they were always given to them to serve a political objective of yours.

You really know nothing of your own countries interventions in the region, do you?

The Baath party in Iraq was first brought to power by the US and UK to overthrow Qasim and minimize the power of the communist party in the country. Then Saddam himself was helped by your governments to force Al Bakr into retirement and replace him and execute hundreds of leaders in his party to stop a proposed Iraqi-Syrian unity that Al Bakr. He was 'your' man from the start and did your bidding for a long time. He took his whole country to war with Iran after the Islamic revolution for your sake alone.

Good luck coming up with a proper response.

[The only place to be 11,313]

So then, who decides what oppressed people are, you ? Blair ? what level of oppression ?

Didn't the United Nations make a decent fist of that in 1948 with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Funnily enough I'm not proposing Blair or Bush decide.

The health service under Saddam was better that the UK for example, so should they have invaded because we were oppressed ? Or is that only up to Western countries ?

Does a good health service really balance out the massacring of tens of thousands of Kurds?

But good point nonetheless and not at all hyperbolic....nope.

The 'medieval philosophies' as you call them , as I have already explained. were unleashed after the toppling of the Bathist regime, MI6 told the government thats what would happen, but they ignored the advice

The medieval philosophies have existed in the region for centuries. They are not a modern phenomenon, for instance female genital mutilation didn't simply happen in the last decade or so.

There's a direct link between things like FGM and what we are seeing now and it's a common, underlying philosophy.

It seems you're attempt to run away from all the facts I made in that post is a bit too obvious, so I'll quote them again for you:

Actually I simply pointed out that the premise on which you made that response was faulty. You misunderstood what I meant and discussing it would take us further away from the discussion at hand.

Although if you wish to start a new thread on it then I'll try and find time to respond to it in due course because it's a finely constructed post that does deserve a response.

[Fulham Broadway 17,332]

Didn't the United Nations make a decent fist of that in 1948 with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Funnily enough I'm not proposing Blair or Bush decide.

The UN was ignored by the US and UK when bombing Iraq.

Does a good health service really balance out the massacring of tens of thousands of Kurds? But good point nonetheless and not at all hyperbolic....nope.

There were not tens of thousands of Kurds.intervention has cost millions of lives.

The medieval philosophies have existed in the region for centuries. They are not a modern phenomenon, for instance female genital mutilation didn't simply happen in the last decade or so. There's a direct link between things like FGM and what we are seeing now and it's a common, underlying philosophy.

You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with female genital mutilation, I should delete your browser history if I were you.

It wasnt happening in Iraq under the Bathist regime, only when your 'medieval philosophies' surfaced.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Actually I simply pointed out that the premise on which you made that response was faulty. You misunderstood what I meant and discussing it would take us further away from the discussion at hand.

Although if you wish to start a new thread on it then I'll try and find time to respond to it in due course because it's a finely constructed post that does deserve a response.

Not at all. If you had read the post, you would have noticed that I made the point that the ideology is not hundreds of years old but was started in the late 70s and has been started and sustained only through billions and billions of Western money to emulate an ideology or rather and era that had long been gone in time as is proof by the fact that it did not exist in the slightest in any part of the middle east prior to 2003.

Try again:

Yes, you did. The root of this ideology is the south of what was the Soviet Union where your country and the US spent millions on arming and funding extremists groups to fight against the soviet union. More importantly, millions were paid to Sheikhs to promote this ideology of Jihad among people in Mosques (especially in Friday prayers) and convincing Muslims that it is their duty. The religious leaders of this movement who later became the leaders of Al Qaeda, all spent some time in their lives living in the UK. Ben Laden, Al Zarqawi...etc. All of them. Look them up.

The ideology only crept into the middle east after invasion of Iraq. They had a place with no order and peace to grow and with people that were willing to do anything to fight the invading forces. Contrary to what you are told, very very few minorities in Iraq supported western involvement, let alone an invasion. They hated Saddm, but not as much as the UK and US.

But your governments never really severed all the ties with them. I remember in 2004 or 2005 when a Qaeda related group killed a few Lebanese Army soldiers. The army hunted them and killing and arresting a bunch of them. That is when Condalisa Rice herself decided to come to Lebanon to convince our President at the time Emile Lahoud to release the extremists, funny right?

The US knew they could still use them and they did. A revolution was shaping up in several countries at the start of the 2010s. It had absolutely nothing to do with religion or even politics. It started with a guy setting himself on fire because the police had confiscated his vegetable cart! But after they lost an ally in Tunisia the US decided to ride the wave...well where it suited them at least. They brought their old extremist friends to the party. They had a beef to settle with practically all the existing regimes in the area, The NATO armed and funded them in Lybia and got what they wanted, they backed them in Egypt (different group, but not too dissimilar) but Syria was different. Al Assad had a strong army and the backing of A LOT of his people. Billions of dollars worth of weapons were given to them, and to be fair, secular Syrian rebels. But the secular rebels disappeared in time and part of the extremists groups turned against the US and the other extremists groups and formed what is known as IS.

Those barbarians you talk about have never in their history fought with anything except for 'your' weapons. And they never bought those weapons, they were always given to them to serve a political objective of yours.

You really know nothing of your own countries interventions in the region, do you?

The Baath party in Iraq was first brought to power by the US and UK to overthrow Qasim and minimize the power of the communist party in the country. Then Saddam himself was helped by your governments to force Al Bakr into retirement and replace him and execute hundreds of leaders in his party to stop a proposed Iraqi-Syrian unity that Al Bakr. He was 'your' man from the start and did your bidding for a long time. He took his whole country to war with Iran after the Islamic revolution for your sake alone.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with female genital mutilation, I should delete your browser history if I were you.

Excuse me?

What the fuck?

FGM is an abomination and I want to see it removed for the lexicon of human language and for you to suggest something like that is beyond disgusting. To treat it so frivolously and to suggest that I have an 'unhealthy obsession' with it is reprehensible.

Would you say that someone who is disgusted with the sexual abuse of minors had an 'unhealthy obsession' with it?

Would you ever repeat something like that to my face?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

The medieval philosophies have existed in the region for centuries. They are not a modern phenomenon, for instance female genital mutilation didn't simply happen in the last decade or so. There's a direct link between things like FGM and what we are seeing now and it's a common, underlying philosophy.

What are you even talking about? The Saddam regime was complete secular and, culturally, his era only helped 'westernize' the Iraqi societies. Apart from politics, it was a liberal progressive country, as was Syria under Al Asad. I can assure you that the female vagina was way better off under both than now.

[Fulham Broadway 17,332]

Excuse me?

What the fuck?

FGM is an abomination and I want to see it removed for the lexicon of human language and for you to suggest something like that is beyond disgusting. To treat it so frivolously and to suggest that I have an 'unhealthy obsession' with it is reprehensible.

Would you say that someone who is disgusted with the sexual abuse of minors had an 'unhealthy obsession' with it?

Would you ever repeat something like that to my face?

Oh do shut up you tart. Of course Id repeat it to your face Lolz

Anything regarding Islam is '' female genital mutilation,'', ''medieaval'' ''backward''. It gets tedious

[The only place to be 11,313]

I'm done with this discussion when a mod suggests that being disgusted by an abhorrent practice (when I've also expressed disgust for the slaughtering of thousands of people, the disenfranchisement of millions and the oppression of hundreds of millions around the world) is indicative of some kind of unhealthy obsession.

That is simply uncalled for and cowardly.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Oh do shut up you tart. Of course Id repeat it to your face

Ok then. When and where? Answer in PM.

[Fulham Broadway 17,332]

Ok then. When and where? Answer in PM.

Anytime anywhere love

[Fulham Broadway 17,332]

I'm done with this discussion when a mod suggests that being disgusted by an abhorrent practice (when I've also expressed disgust for the slaughtering of thousands of people, the disenfranchisement of millions and the oppression of hundreds of millions around the world) is indicative of some kind of unhealthy obsession.

That is simply uncalled for and cowardly.

You have quoted Female Genital Mutilation several times. Now you seem to be using it as an excuse for the slaughter of thousands of Iraqis, really clutching at straws - the practice didnt happen under the B'athist regime

[SinineUltra 1,170]

Obama gave a great speech today in Tallinn, capital of Estonia.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

So, the Syrian 'moderate' resistance looks to have been resurrected from the dead, at least by the looks. After doing piratically nothing for what? About 18 months now? several of those groups held massive rallies this week seeming to compete to prove who is 'moderate' than the other

Meaning? Probably that the US is genuinely contemplating strikes against ISIS inside Syria and are looking for someone to replace it in its current areas of power. Practically, Al Nusra will be the only one replacing ISIS who are Al Qaeda's branch in Syria, but that isn't great PR for the US so they need some group that would look like they are taking the power, at least in some areas.

On a different note, everyone talks about Russia's propaganda media, but that is only true for people living in Russia. For the rest of the world, no one hears the Russian side of the story. We've been hearing every single day about what the Russians have done and are doing in Ukraine with every talk show painting a crazy Putin, but that is propaganda as well. Different type, but still a one-sided propaganda nonetheless.

You have no idea the kind of restrain that Russia is showing while NATO are messing around their border and not for the first time. Russia does not want confrontation with the US yet and the Americans are making the most out of that. The Russians haven't used all their influences in Ukraine, let alone all of Europe, but the Americans are pushing it with the sanctions. Here is Europe's dependence on Russia's gas (in 2012):

Russia can literally make half of Europe freeze to death in the winter if they cut off their gas. They should really be careful how hard they poke the Russian bear.

[twobanger 13]

Here's an interesting story I found saying Egypt offered to give up territory to form a Palestinian state but Abbas rejected it.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/egypts-sisi-offered-abbas-creation-palestinian-state-sinai-peninsula-1464436

The source is suspect (Israeli radio) but as a launching pad for discussion it's intriguing (to me at least).

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Syrian army today captured a Chinese guy fighting with ISIS.

Rumors are that there's a few hundred Chinese fighting with ISIS in Syria. But, you know, their ideology is just that of the barbaric cultures of the middle east...