haranr 485 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 This Time, Again, Who started all the attacks? Hamas.Israel told them, stop attack and we will not attack. but....we just defend.What's your point?? Btw, Israel don't just defend. Settlements is a disgrace . LDN Blue and Fulham Broadway 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haranr 485 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Yes. Zionists have a huge influence in Western Media and Western politics in general. Honestly, I think it's a political decision. One that won't be made any time soon. General consensus is set by the media and the media is a reflection of certain policies. As you said, there can be no just solution as long as the best interest of Israel is valued many times more than that of the Arabs.Israel broke down the "peace talks" when Hamas and Fateh, the two main representatives of the Palestinian people, ended their feud. There can never be any doubt after that about Israel's intentions to not have actual peace. Israel should NOT have broke down the "peace talks" with Fateh but Israel MUST not talk to a terrorist organization such as Hamas. Both sides do not want to compromise enough for peace. Mohammed Seif and Dion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xPetrCechx 13,573 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 We gave them 48 hours to think, to stop what they started... they continued to fire missiles on us...now we must to response. CFC_4EVER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haranr 485 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 We gave them 48 hours to think, to stop what they started... they continued to fire missiles on us...now we must to response.This is obvious.. We should not just response. We should enter the Gaza Strip in order to demolish Hamas. This terror organization has gone too far. They hurt their own and Israel at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xPetrCechx 13,573 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Hamas Hurt The Palestinians more than anyone else. MrExcalibur100 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haranr 485 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Hamas Hurt The Palestinians more than anyone else.True. Now, are you ימני? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xPetrCechx 13,573 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 True. Now, are you ימני?Not too far from... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Listen, what are you trying to say? That it's legitimate for them to shoot rockets that have a possibility of killing innocent civilians? What exactly are you saying? Let me tell you how stupid you are for saying something like that: Because Israel is much stronger.. it's okay and legetimate for the Palestines to shoot rockets that sometimes do have a signficant damage. Lucky for Israel, "Iron Dome" is at place to take down most of the rockets. Israel has the right to defend itself. You just sounded real stupid .. You can criticize different things but not this.No, I'm saying it is VERY clear to anyone who sees that who is the oppressor between the two sides and who is terrorizing who. In fact, just by looking at the types of weapons, any sane person can deduce who the criminals are and who are the people trying to defend what little remains from their basic rights for life with what little they have.I've said before, I do not wish to discuss this with you, so don't quote me again, please. Despiadado.Maleante 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xPetrCechx 13,573 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 No, I'm saying it is VERY clear to anyone who sees that who is the oppressor between the two sides and who is terrorizing who. In fact, just by looking at the types of weapons, any sane person can deduce who the criminals are and who are the people trying to defend what little remains from their basic rights for life with what little they have.I've said before, I do not wish to discuss this with you, so don't quote me again, please. trying to defend? we didn't attack them first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 trying to defend? we didn't attack them first.And how do you think they ended up with 50 year-old riffles and locally made rockets? No one attacks a country, let alone one of the most armed countries in the world, with these weapons. These are defense weapons. These weapons are a reaction, not the action. Yes, this last conflict was started by the Palestinians, which I had already said in this thread is inexcusable and awful, but they have always been the ones defending (and losing) their land, their homes, their families, there mere existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray 9,441 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 ItI wish to criticize your claims. I will begin with something not very relevant but the 'stage 1' photo is simply incorrect. You need to remember that most of the land was nobodys because there was no Palestine or Israeli state. A full majority of the Palestine lived and still living in the WEST BANK and that was their territory.. the same for Israel. Where they lived is where their land was. Stage 1 should not be shown here.Now I don't really understand what you are trying to say. The situation is much more complex than just (Israel won the war and got the land), The Palestines have chosen WAR in 1947. Now, this might be understandable but absolutely unacceptable. There is no legitimate explanation of why they declined the UN partition aside from arrogance and egoism.. You should not legitimize that. Explain me your points further please. Thank you.Its hard to debate when having two completely different paradigms. The land was under Mandate of the Volkenbond after a Turkish Reign. The amount of people settling into the country before it was anyones land and before 1920 tells the story about zionism. It was the wish to go back to Zion, a wish the orthodox community then found repellend cause that should be reserved for after the coming of the Messiah. Anyway .... The war later was not about a jewish David against an arab goliath btw. Quite the opposite, despite the arab initiative. But is was however a prerequisite for much more! I just read this by accident: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4761896I have no issue with Jewish people and the Shoah was the most horrible event, but my heart does break by what has happened during decades to the people originally living in those lands. It has become a story of political spinning, oppressies and yes .... Propaganda. Israël has issues claiming the victims position when you take all of its history into account, not just a few recently chosen events. Thats all. Leo Festinger - i even think he was a jewish psychologist - laid the foundation on peoples strategies to deal with info that 'does not compute' accordeons to the dominant mildset and reigning ideas. Cognitive dissonance theory, read about it plz, my friend. Just check the Human Rights Watch report: http://m.hrw.org/reports/2010/12/19/separate-and-unequal-0Respect to all. That is my wish ... Dion, Mohammed Seif and CHOULO19 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmpr 8,977 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Isnt it better to agree to disagree?I dont think you guys will find a middle ground any time soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray 9,441 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Isnt it better to agree to disagree?I dont think you guys will find a middle ground any time soon...Tbh, what do you expect from a politicus thread. I do find it is respectfull, so why not give it a chance? Mohammed Seif 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Isnt it better to agree to disagree?I dont think you guys will find a middle ground any time soon...You can agree to disagree about how good a shirt looks, or how good a football player is, but you certainly can't agree to disagree about a war that you are part of! Fulham Broadway, LDN Blue and Mohammed Seif 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmpr 8,977 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 You can agree to disagree about how good a shirt looks, or how good a football player is, but you certainly can't agree to disagree about a war that you are part of! Exactly the contrary, there is a war going on and you think you will get anywhere by discussing on a football forum?It was good 2-3 pages ago, now both sides are just repeating themselves over and over again. It is quite boring to read! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Exactly the contrary, there is a war going on and you think you will get anywhere by discussing on a football forum?It was good 2-3 pages ago, now both sides are just repeating themselves over and over again. It is quite boring to read! You don't get anywhere by discussing anything on a forum, it's kind of a feature of forums! The discussion has been respectful and mostly rational (except that guy who was trying to turn it into something about religion). If it's boring, don't read it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I just read this by accident:http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4761896That's a brilliant article. Hits the nail on the head on several key points:"In order for colonialism and occupation to be successful, previous inhabitants of a region must be dehumanized, labeled savages, and finally, their very existence denied. Once this paradigm has been established, any and all acts of horror can be inflicted upon them without recourse. Thus, the stories of the oppressed become irrelevant.""Zionism has convinced many Jews that they are preserving themselves. The common thought is that if the "savage" Palestinians stop resisting, stop shooting rockets, stop fighting Israel's inevitable domination, there can be peace." Mohammed Seif, Stingray, Kieran. and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulham Broadway 17,333 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 That's a brilliant article. Hits the nail on the head on several key points:"In order for colonialism and occupation to be successful, previous inhabitants of a region must be dehumanized, labeled savages, and finally, their very existence denied. Once this paradigm has been established, any and all acts of horror can be inflicted upon them without recourse. Thus, the stories of the oppressed become irrelevant.""Zionism has convinced many Jews that they are preserving themselves. The common thought is that if the "savage" Palestinians stop resisting, stop shooting rockets, stop fighting Israel's inevitable domination, there can be peace." And never under estimate the part of corporate media propaganda to keep spinning their agenda :''The recent blanket coverage afforded to the brutal killing of three Israeli teenagers highlights this immutable fact. Major broadcasters, such as BBC News, devoted headlines and extended reports to the deaths, and included heart-rending interviews with grieving relatives in Israel. The Guardian ran live coverage of the funerals for more than nine hours. But when has this ever happened for Palestinian victims of Israeli terror??When has the BBC ever expressed this level of concern for the deaths of Palestinian teenagers? The question matters because consistent empathic bias has the effect of humanising Israelis for the public and dehumanising Palestinians. This is an extremely lethal form of media propaganda with real consequences for human suffering.'' This enforces the labels given above-savages, and generally making Palestinian deaths worth less than Israelis.http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2014/770-some-deaths-really-matter-the-disproportionate-coverage-of-israeli-and-palestinian-killings.html Kieran., CHOULO19 and Mohammed Seif 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iseah100 5,612 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Mohammed Seif 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohammed Seif 1,451 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 That's a brilliant article. Hits the nail on the head on several key points:"In order for colonialism and occupation to be successful, previous inhabitants of a region must be dehumanized, labeled savages, and finally, their very existence denied. Once this paradigm has been established, any and all acts of horror can be inflicted upon them without recourse. Thus, the stories of the oppressed become irrelevant.""Zionism has convinced many Jews that they are preserving themselves. The common thought is that if the "savage" Palestinians stop resisting, stop shooting rockets, stop fighting Israel's inevitable domination, there can be peace." And never under estimate the part of corporate media propaganda to keep spinning their agenda :''The recent blanket coverage afforded to the brutal killing of three Israeli teenagers highlights this immutable fact. Major broadcasters, such as BBC News, devoted headlines and extended reports to the deaths, and included heart-rending interviews with grieving relatives in Israel. The Guardian ran live coverage of the funerals for more than nine hours. But when has this ever happened for Palestinian victims of Israeli terror??When has the BBC ever expressed this level of concern for the deaths of Palestinian teenagers? The question matters because consistent empathic bias has the effect of humanising Israelis for the public and dehumanising Palestinians. This is an extremely lethal form of media propaganda with real consequences for human suffering.'' This enforces the labels given above-savages, and generally making Palestinian deaths worth less than Israelis.http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2014/770-some-deaths-really-matter-the-disproportionate-coverage-of-israeli-and-palestinian-killings.htmlIf you check out the U.S media, it is pretty much the same concept. They did the same against the Afganis and Iraqis. Even the returning troops who changed their views from pro war to anti war stated many times that they were dehumanizing them. Even creating their own racist words for them and always referring to them with those words. Fulham Broadway and Kieran. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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