Politics & Stuff

[Kieran. 6,317]

He was a bourgeois-populist, which is where I personally have the most problems with his policies, but he undoubtedly did a world of good for the poor of his country. Loved by the poor, hated by the rich...a polarizing figure.

I also find it somewhat ironic he's outlived by Castro.

[Backstreet09 499]

Requiescat in pace !

He was a true leader and a great person . Whatever people say about him , the citizens of Venezuella will always love him . ALWAYS

It's not about standing against America which I personally think was really foolish lulz . It's about how he developed Venezuella and there's alot of talks about corruption but if you'd ask any venezuallian in personel , they are pretty happy with him.

[bushman 2,043]

He might have stood up to America but what did the people of Venezuela get for it ?

[Dion 2,476]

I'll prepare some popcorn and get me coke because this is gonna be good.

[Backstreet09 499]

I'll prepare some popcorn and get me coke because this is gonna be good.

Can I have some please ^__^ ?

[SinineUltra 1,170]

RIP. Regardless of his views etc he was Pablo Escobar of Venezuela, only with legal authority.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Alright, here we go....

Go ahead mate but I won't be able to reply tonight, sorry.

[bushman 2,043]

RIP. Regardless of his views etc he was Pablo Escobar of Venezuela, only with legal authority.

I wouldn´t say all his activities were so legal. If I remember correctly, he confiscated many foreign companies just by chasing them out of Venezuela.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Go ahead mate but I won't be able to reply tonight, sorry.

You asked for it!

Hugo Chavez stood almost 15 years as president of Venezuela, in a time where the biggest country treasure went from 10 dollars per barrel to 110 dollars per barrel. He won his last two elections in incredible contraditory fashion (since all the unbiased polls said otherwise) and in all the vary social/economic statistics you look at, almost all of them got worse.

Chavez took over with a very promissing speech. He promissed exactly what Dilma is promissing in doing. No more poverty and no more people in the "poverty line" (less than 1.25 dollar/day). Did he achieve it? No, but things for the very poor vastly improved since the 90s, it trully did. That is not the whole factor though. He claimed to be the president that most spent on the poor (truth), but it isnt so hard when no one else before him did anything. He didnt do more than he should have, he was always looking first for power. It (unfortunatelly) doesnt matter if the very poor people are making 3-4 dollars a day (instead of 1), if all the rest is in a complete shit state and if there are no real oportunities.

Hugo took an economy that is solely based on oil and mineral, in a period where these two raw materials immensily grew in value during those 15 years, and wasnt capable of improving the country in any way. Where did it all go? He basically gave them a few percentage of what he could have really done. It is like having 10 candies and only giving 1 to your people, even though you consider yourself a good and kind politician. In a scenario where Venezuela should have taken full advantage of it, Chavez made things worse. The criminal rating absurdly increased and the level of foreign investment declined to almost to nonexisting levels. The middle class lives in horrible conditions (for a middle class) and famous rich people (I dont mean celebs, please) fleed the country. It is good to promote improvements for the mass working class, but it has no point if everything else is gonna to be fucked up!

He took all the resources of PDVSA to promote his overpriced (guess why) social works and left them outdated. Now, they are in a very bad situation, almost bankrupted. He left their only big company is a much worse situation then when he took over, even with the immense valorization of petroleum in the same period. The Venezuela (and Argentina, but that is a different discussion) is in deep, deep shape. It doesnt get to the media because nobody cares about them, but Chavez is the main reason why. His exertnal policy of protecting bad figures throughout the world has made Venezuela a "not to go"and "instable" country to any kind of investment, their population has no job or academic oportunities.

As much as we would like it not to be, a country needs rich people and a stable infrastructure. You of all people (an intelligent guy living in the thrid world) know how important foreign multinational companies and rich executives is for a country to develop. Venezuelans now have a place to live (which is very important and I give him credit where credit is due) and they leave school knowing how to read/write and how to do basic math operations. Nevertheless, is that really super relevant if you have no one financing University researches nor anyone employing work force?

Worse than that (believe me), is the super high inflation and lack of food and energy. Inflation to the point of not being able to open a bank account, can you imagine? It is not as bad as it once was in Brazil (we had around 1800%/year in the 80s) nor Africa (where paper money doesnt even exist), but it is still pretty, prety bad! Their energy demand is at 33% higher than they can deliver, blackouts are more than common. Food is sad, I cant really talk about it as I never, thankfully, passed any necessity, but only who did knows how it feels.

Now you ask me, is that all because of Chavez? Yes...

Venezuela is in some serious trouble and it is mainly because of him. His need for power made things totally biased and corrupted. There is no free will in Venezuela, you cant public complain about him or any of his 'friends'. He owned every single Media source, he dominated the Legislature and he had strong allies in the Judiciary. How was it called someone who ruled all the power espheres of a nation? I guess they call it a free man now...

The economic problems were also all his fault. He promoted a dubtful and controversial external policy, totally anti-capitalistm and anti-USA. If you live in a country without all the resources needed to survive and thrive, any dumbass can see this is suicidal. You cant public announce help to dictatorship and rule out any agreement with the USA just because you dont want you, this is not some personal vendeta. You have always to look at what is best for your own country, and that he rarely did. There are two ways to screw up, one doing what Cuba did (no USA at all) and the other by what Argentina did (accepting everything they impose). Every situation must be taken care individually, like Brazil (to take a South American as example) does, sometimes their ideas are good for both countries and sometimes it isnt. Make deal in the ones that do help your people, simple as that.

He also basically nationalized all the possible areas. That is a controversial debate though, because nationalizing it doesnt actually mean a bad thing. However, if anything about South America is true, is that our goverments are utter shit administrators. Any public service here is ineficient. What once were good structured companies and services (even if doing well to the very rich), now are complete broke and burocratic things.

After his 14 years, we have a Venezuela with no freedom and no growth perspective. People have a better education (better than Brazil), but they have no good future in life. What is the matter to do all of this if there will be no job? In Brazil, less educated people can at least find a job at McDonald's or at one of the many constructions around here (guess why so many). It is a very sad situation, where it is easy to scre things up, but very hard to solve and put things back on track!

EDIT 1: In resume, he had all the characteristics of a tyranny. He did improve those aspects of life, but he owned everything and censured everyone. Never really bothered in really helping South America, just worried with his power maintenance and anger towards USA. Ultimately turning things much, much, much more worse.

EDIT 2: I honestly think someone will take over and install a military dictatorship in Venezuela. Chavez will be the one who pavement the way for that happening. The fact civilians all love him doesnt mean anything and history is there to show it.

EDIT 3: You know my way of writing quite well, I usually repeat myself. However, this is such a hard topic to keep your ideas clear, that I needed to be. I dont even know if I expressed myself good. Did I?

[SinineUltra 1,170]

I wouldn´t say all his activities were so legal. If I remember correctly, he confiscated many foreign companies just by chasing them out of Venezuela.

Legal as in official authority. Escobar was a drug lord, Chavez was President of Venezuela.

[bushman 2,043]

Legal as in official authority. Escobar was a drug lord, Chavez was President of Venezuela.

Pablo pushed drugs. Chavez berefted other people´s companies. What´s the diff ?

[Melanicus 5,208]

R.I.P.

I support everyone who stands up against USA and their corrupted Israel friends.

[Yeboii 1,844]

I say R.I.P. I think no one here knows if he was good or bad except for the people of Venezuela so maybe people shouldnt act like they know everything about how he ran things. Im interested in seeing what will come out of this in Venezuela.. Who will take charge.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Is it bad, i didn't really know who he was...

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

Why do you think that he made it worse for his people? Why do so many adore him if that is the case?

On a side note, how long do you think it will be before Venezuelan oil is controlled by the US now that Chavez is dead?

same can be said about North Korea with the late kim jong ill. Called brainwashing, and dumbing the citizens down.

[Rmpr 8,977]

same can be said about North Korea with the late kim jong ill. Called brainwashing, and dumbing the citizens down.

What about Hitler and Mussolini?

[Rmpr 8,977]

@CHOULO19, it is ready!

http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/13128-politics-stuff/?p=619737

P.S: I should really proof read it and organise all the ideas, but I am just too lazy to do so. I didnt even say half of what I wanted, but just got too tired of writing and it would be longer than it already is. I basically focused on the economic aspect of it (because it is the biggest), but there is more. I also mentioned the lack of freedom, but didnt gave in depth info.

[Backstreet09 499]

What about Hitler and Mussolini?

Sorry for interrupting but Hitler was a nice bloke , Russians bullied him and he had to commit suicide with his love .

[bushman 2,043]

R.I.P.

I support everyone who stands up against USA and their corrupted Israel friends.

May I ask why do you support anyone who is against the good old USA ?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

same can be said about North Korea with the late kim jong ill. Called brainwashing, and dumbing the citizens down.

Brainwashing? He never had the power, at least in his beginnings, to brainwash anyone unlike ill. He's a common man who made it to presidency through a morning TV show! Even after he became president he didn't need to brainwash anyone because the majority of the people (the poor) adored him. When you give thousands of homeless people houses and an education they would have never dreamed of, they're going to vote for you.

Besides, Venezuella has the most democratic elections in the world- Jim Carter's description, not mine. Candidates have the exact same tv and radio time to ensure equal exposure and two days before the elections, no one is allowed to speak the media or advertise himself to ensure that the people's choice is free. Heck even alcohol is not allowed to be sold a day before the elections!

You want to see brainwashing? Switch over to FOX!