Politics & Stuff

[Fulham Broadway 16,774]

40 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Adventures?

Iraq, Africa, Afghanistan, Palestine, Libya, Lebanon, now Iran, -endless list of millions dead =always the brown people 

40 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Israel in war is doing some atrociousness, but it's not because they freely wanted.

 Tell me, do an occupied people under an apartheid system where water, electricity and food are denied,

(acknowledged by the whole international community btw) have the right to defend themselves ? 

[Vesper 28,593]

1 hour ago, Fulham Broadway said:

All sources say the same. Perhaps they are all wrong

Homosexual relationships played an important role in  Greek society

Here are some key points:

1.Active homosexuality was regarded as natural, and sexual desire was not distinguished by gender2.

2 There was a prohibition against males adopting a submissive role

3.Greek society did not distinguish sexual orientation as a social identity, but rather by the role each participant played in the sex act3.

4. Greek love was a term used to describe homoerotic customs and practices

 

Sacred Band of Thebes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes

The Sacred Band of Thebes (Ancient Greek: Ἱερός Λόχος, Hierós Lókhos) was a troop of select soldiers, consisting of 150 pairs of male lovers which formed the elite force of the Theban army in the 4th century BC, ending Spartan domination. Its predominance began with its crucial role in the Battle of Leuctra in 371 BC. It was annihilated by Philip II of Macedon in the Battle of Chaeronea in 338 BC.

 

 

Dive into the untold story of the Sacred Band of Thebes, an elite unit of 300 warriors bound by love and companionship. This episode of Ancient Greece Revisited shatters myths about Greek warriors, juxtaposing the Athenian perception of "philosophers and boy lovers" with the valor of the Theban army. Discover how this army of lovers defied the Spartan military might, redefining the art of war and the concept of freedom.

Explore the origins of the Sacred Band, formed by Theban general Gorgidas, and their impact on Greek history. Witness the strategic brilliance of Pelopidas and Epaminondas, whose innovative tactics led to stunning victories against the Spartans, challenging centuries of military supremacy. Learn how their bond of 'φιλία' (philia) transcended mere friendship, embodying the deep connection between personal bonds and political liberty. Uncover the fall of Sparta and the rise of Thebes as a dominant power, promoting independence among Greek city-states.

The episode culminates with the tragic fate of the Sacred Band at Chaeronea, where Philip II of Macedonia, a former student of Pelopidas, extinguished their legacy. Reflect on the profound influence of Theban philosophy on Philip and Alexander the Great, and the ironic twist of fate that led to the Band's demise. This story of courage, love, and freedom offers a fresh perspective on the interconnectedness of personal relationships and political power in ancient Greece. Join us on this historical journey, where love and war intertwine to shape the destiny of nations.

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:25 by Vesper

[Fulham Broadway 16,774]

'This is our land, we deserve it': Dozens of Israelis planning to cross border and settle in Gaza

 

When asked what should happen to the Palestinians currently living in the territory, one Israeli woman replied: "We should kill them. Every last one of them."

By Adam Parsons, Sky News correspondent in Kibbutz Be’eri in Israel

Monday 21 October 2024 22:35, UK

Image:Reshit says Israel should 'kill every last one' of the Palestinians in Gaza

As the sun beats down on us near Kibbutz Be'eri in Israel, Avi looks out towards the place he really wants to live. It's only two miles away and it shimmers in the sunshine.

"It would be our privilege," he says, looking at his wife and three small children.

 

Their plan is to move to Gaza.

He's not sure when it will be possible, but he's hoping it will be soon, once it is safe to move in.

As if on cue, there is a boom as another shell is fired into Gaza from a nearby gun emplacement.

 

 

Avi is not alone.

Around us are dozens and dozens of Israelis who are keen to get into Gaza and claim the land as their own.

They have come to a conference on the resettlement of Gaza in Kibbutz Be'eri as a show of strength and determination. Many of them are couples with children.

There is a tent where the youngsters are being entertained, a stall handing out drinks and a stage with speeches and music. People are making small talk in the shade of a pagoda.

There are lots of guns here, and the atmosphere is rich with a sense of frustration, entitlement and even excitement.

Reshit has come with her friends. She is the daughter of an Israeli soldier who spent months in Gaza and is now fighting in Lebanon. She is friendly, open, eloquent and utterly sure of herself.

So why would you want to live in Gaza?

Image:Israelis waves flags as a conference is held on the resettlement of Gaza

"Because it's our homeland," she replies. "It says in the Torah that this is our home, this is our land, and we have every right to live there.

"So many soldiers have died in this. We have to keep doing what they started. They died for a reason. They started something. And I think it's our duty for them and for their families to actually keep doing what they started.

"They sacrificed themselves for something so we have to sacrifice ourselves for that thing also."

What, I ask, about the Palestinians who already live in Gaza? What should happen to them? She doesn't miss a beat.

"We should kill them, every last one of them. And if the government won't do that then we should just kick them out. This is our land. And we deserve it."

Mass murder is not proposed by the other people we meet, at least not while talking to us, but the idea that the Palestinians should forego their land and be sent to other nations seems commonplace.

"Throughout history, countries who lose wars then lose their land," I was told by a man called Boris, who says he is an activist for Likud, the political party of prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Until recently, the idea of sending settlers into Gaza had very few supporters - a fringe proposal with almost no momentum.

Now right-wing politicians have jumped behind it with gusto as a growing sign of their determination not simply to beat Hamas, but to change the region.

 

Image:Smoke rises from Gaza as seen from southern Israel. Pic: Reuters

And so, along with the would-be settlers, there are politicians here, lending their weight.

Itamar Ben-Gvir, the outspoken minister of national security, turns up to lend his support, agreeing that Palestinians should be removed from Gaza.

Another VIP visitor is Ariel Kallner, an MP for Likud, who tells me that he is here to show his support for the settlers' plans.

He insists that "total victory" in the war can only be achieved when settlers have set up a town in northern Gaza. In the distance, smoke rises over Gaza.

In a large tent to the side, a loudspeaker bursts into life.

Daniella Weiss takes to the stage to applause. Now a sprightly 79 years old, she has spent half a century encouraging settlers to set up communities in the West Bank.

She claims to have established more than 330 settlements and now, her focus is on Gaza.

"You know, it wasn't easy. We have accumulated a lot of experience about how to do it politically, how to work with the politicians, how to work with the public, and how to encourage the pioneers to be able to settle in a place that is their land, but is also a difficult place to live in," she says. "We can teach them how to cope."

Image:Sky's Adam Parsons speaks with Daniella Weiss

There is another commotion, this time in the neighbouring field. Counter-demonstrators have turned up and a line of police officers is separating them from the settlers. They're chanting their opposition and waving banners.

Mickal Frucktman bristles with anger. She says she was shocked to see Likud politicians at the event because "I think that means the government supports this idea".

"What they want to do is illegal and it's going to cause incredible problems. It's going to totally ruin Israel morally, if there's any moral shred left. And there are still 101 hostages being held."

She looks at the settlers; they look back. It's hard to imagine any common ground between these two camps, any fellow feeling.

And from somewhere near, there is a boom as another shell is launched into Gaza

[cosmicway 1,308]

6 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Sacred Band of Thebes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes

The Sacred Band of Thebes (Ancient Greek: Ἱερός Λόχος, Hierós Lókhos) was a troop of select soldiers, consisting of 150 pairs of male lovers which formed the elite force of the Theban army in the 4th century BC, ending Spartan domination. Its predominance began with its crucial role in the Battle of Leuctra in 371 BC. It was annihilated by Philip II of Macedon in the Battle of Chaeronea in 338 BC.

 

 

Dive into the untold story of the Sacred Band of Thebes, an elite unit of 300 warriors bound by love and companionship. This episode of Ancient Greece Revisited shatters myths about Greek warriors, juxtaposing the Athenian perception of "philosophers and boy lovers" with the valor of the Theban army. Discover how this army of lovers defied the Spartan military might, redefining the art of war and the concept of freedom.

Explore the origins of the Sacred Band, formed by Theban general Gorgidas, and their impact on Greek history. Witness the strategic brilliance of Pelopidas and Epaminondas, whose innovative tactics led to stunning victories against the Spartans, challenging centuries of military supremacy. Learn how their bond of 'φιλία' (philia) transcended mere friendship, embodying the deep connection between personal bonds and political liberty. Uncover the fall of Sparta and the rise of Thebes as a dominant power, promoting independence among Greek city-states.

The episode culminates with the tragic fate of the Sacred Band at Chaeronea, where Philip II of Macedonia, a former student of Pelopidas, extinguished their legacy. Reflect on the profound influence of Theban philosophy on Philip and Alexander the Great, and the ironic twist of fate that led to the Band's demise. This story of courage, love, and freedom offers a fresh perspective on the interconnectedness of personal relationships and political power in ancient Greece. Join us on this historical journey, where love and war intertwine to shape the destiny of nations.

 

I have been to Thebes.
They still have streets named after their ancient generals, such as "the street of the oblique phalanx".
Thinking they had good souvlakis like the famous Levadia nearrby has I ordered from a restaurant but they were tiny ones, refirgerated.
The story about them being gay soldiers is however a fantasy.
Love and companionship is a motto in everyone's army - does n't mean they are gay.

[Vesper 28,593]

1 hour ago, cosmicway said:

Look they would n't have children if they were gay - there would n't be a country named Gr today

bi sexual

LGBTQ

[cosmicway 1,308]

Just now, Vesper said:

bi sexual

LGBTQ

Look Chrstian ethics were comparable to the Taliban - up until the 19th century and beyond.
The ancients did not have them but they were not gay.
Homosexuality was often puished by death.

[Vesper 28,593]

1 minute ago, cosmicway said:

The story about them being gay soldiers is however a fantasy.

thsi is a flat out lie

it is not even up for debate

you are wilfully engaging in falsehoods

your cedibility is gone m8

[Vesper 28,593]

4 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

Look Chrstian ethics were comparable to the Taliban - up until the 19th century and beyond.
The ancients did not have them but they were not gay.
Homosexuality was often puished by death.

non sequitur

just because untold millions (a billion plus?) of Christians and Jews have been homophobic cunts for 2000, 3000 plus years has nothing to due to homosexual and/or bisexual culture in ancient Greece

Edited Tuesday at 10:42 by Vesper

[cosmicway 1,308]

3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

non sequitur

just because untold millions (a billion plus?) of Christians and Jews have been homophobic cunts for 2000, 3000 plus years has nothing to due to homosexual and/or bisexual culture in ancient Greece

The ancient Athenians not the Jews were punishing by death.
There is no evidence whatsoever that those famous ancient pairs of friends had sexual relationships.

[Vesper 28,593]

8 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

There is no evidence whatsoever that those famous ancient pairs of friends had sexual relationships.

this is a pure lie

as already shown

you have become a bad faith poster

you are actively trying to spread false information

to give in and say 'well people are entitled to their opinions, and every opinion is some sort of 'truth' simply because a person says their opinion is true' opens the door to a complete epistemic breakdown (something I posted before on, and which was not directed at you when I posted it)

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:55 by Vesper

[cosmicway 1,308]

22 minutes ago, Vesper said:

this is a pure lie

as already shown

you have become a bad faith poster

you are actively trying to spread false information

to give in and say 'well people are entitled to their opinions, and every opinion is some sort of 'truth' simply because a person says their opinion is true' opens the door to a complete epistemic breakdown (something I posted before on, and which was not directed at you when I posted it)

We are talking about historical evidence and yes the early christians did n't like the ancients at all (they were sort of contemporaries then).
Do you know that the descriptions "Hellene" or "Greek" were used to intimidate ?
True the emperors changed the language from Latin to Greek and -progressively- the image of Greco-christianism was created, but not so in the 4th-5th centuries.
Towards the end of the Byzantine empire in the 15th century the emperor still retained the title "emperor of the Romans" while Byzantium and Greece were really one thing, but in the early centuries even though Hellas was always a province the Hellenes were more or less identified as dodecatheist pagans. 
So they accused the dodecatheists for all shorts of things.
Emperor Theodosius is the one who destroyed Alexander's tomb in Alexandria it is believed and there was also the stoning to death of Greek philosopher-mathematician Hypatia.
In Athens the temple of Zeus was destroyed. That was more impressive than the Acropolis I believe. It was on flat ground while the Acropolis is overlooking the city but must have been more impressive.
Those are things the early christians -unhappily- did.
So they also concocted a homosexuality myth for the ancients but it is a false myth.
This was later picked up by various anti-greek scholars, in 19th century Austria and Germany mainly. 
Also Stalin and Trotsky. Those two were virulent anti-Greeks but Stalin changed his mind after the war.
Also other absurd individuals such as the British museum trustees who stole the Parthenon marbles.

 

Edited Tuesday at 11:16 by cosmicway

[Vesper 28,593]

25 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

We are talking about historical evidence and yes the early christians did n't like the ancients at all (they were sort of contemporaries then).
Do you know that the descriptions "Hellene" or "Greek" were used to intimidate ?
True the emperors changed the language from Latin to Greek and -progressively- the image of Greco-christianism was created, but not so in the 4th-5th centuries.
Towards the end of the Byzantine empire in the 15th century the emperor still retained the title "emperor of the Romans" while Byzantium and Greece were really one thing, but in the early centuries even though Hellas was always a province the Hellenes were more or less identified as dodecatheist pagans. 
So they accused the dodecatheists for all shorts of things.
Emperor Theodosius is the one who destroyed Alexander's tomb in Alexandria it is believed and there was also the stoning to death of Greek philosopher-mathematician Hypatia.
In Athens the temple of Zeus was destroyed. That was more impressive than the Acropolis I believe. It was on flat ground while the Acropolis is overlooking the city but must have been more impressive.
Those are things the early christians -unhappily- did.
So they also concocted a homosexuality myth for the ancients but it is a false myth.
This was later picked up by various anti-greek scholars, in 19th century Austria and Germany mainly. 
Also Stalin and Trotsky. Those two were virulent anti-Greeks but Stalin changed his mind after the war.
Also other absurd individuals such as the British museum trustees who stole the Parthenon marbles.

 

gish gallop rambling

smdh

I am sorry that your world-view cannot handle the fact that male on male penetrative anal sex was for common for many in ancient Greece and accepted as a natural occurance

 

Gish Gallop, Brandolini's Law and Eristic Techniques Explained

 

[cosmicway 1,308]

3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

gish gallop rambling

smdh

I am sorry that your world-view cannot handle the fact that male on male penetrative anal sex was for common for many in ancient Greece and accepted as a natural occurance

 

Gish Gallop, Brandolini's Law and Eristic Techniques Explained

 

Maybe.
So it was in Africa, China and among the Cherokee Indians.
It's an ancient thing and the degrees of acceptance-tolerance vary.
But it was not the norm nor was it allowed in ancient Greece.

[Vesper 28,593]

44 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

nor was it allowed in ancient Greece.

Absolutely false statement. Ridiculous on its face.

I have no idea why you persist in pushing these falsehoods.

[Fernando 6,436]

2 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Iraq, Africa, Afghanistan, Palestine, Libya, Lebanon, now Iran, -endless list of millions dead =always the brown people 

 Tell me, do an occupied people under an apartheid system where water, electricity and food are denied,

(acknowledged by the whole international community btw) have the right to defend themselves ? 

And do you even bother to ask why? Why does it lead to that? 

Is it because terrorism is coming from those regions? 

Surely people want to live in peace but if you terrorist organization bombing you frequently you will do something eventually. 

What you mean by occupied people? How far you go back as to "occupied" because if we go by archeologist finding, that land belongs to Israel. So what date are you using to say "occupy"

An international community are bunch of hypocrites. They blast more Israel then they do the terrorist country like Iran that is producing all these cells. 

[NikkiCFC 7,919]

10 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Absolutely false statement. Ridiculous on its face.

I have no idea why you persist in pushing these falsehoods.

Look. One Greek twink blow me in Chania. If you think Stalin is not responsible for this you are wrong. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,774]

5 hours ago, Fernando said:

And do you even bother to ask why? Why does it lead to that? 

Yes Phd in political science - its economic land grab mainly and stealing of resources.

 

5 hours ago, Fernando said:

Is it because terrorism is coming from those regions? 

Yes partly. The Israeli Stern Gang and Irgun were terrorists. Massacred thousands before the Palestinian resistance even rose up. They hung two British Sergeants and booby trapped the bodies. They blew up the King David Hotel killing dozens and tried to blame Palestinians. Then the UK said no more, and the US took over using Israel as a colonial outpost

 

5 hours ago, Fernando said:

An international community are bunch of hypocrites. They blast more Israel then they do the terrorist country like Iran

Brief history of Iran. Mossadeq was in charge, Irans 30th Prime Minister a beautiful democratic country. However he decided Irans oil should be for Iran. Fair enough ? The US organised a CIA Coup to overthrow the democratically elected government so they could have the oil. They installed the US friendly Shah. a right bastard with his torture police and death squads to crush any opposition. Then in 1979 there was the Religous Revolution because Iranians were fed up with the unelected Shahs regime. 

Later there was the Iran v Iraq war that lasted for 10 years. The US sold weapons to both sides, just the right amount so that the war was finely balanced, would go on for as long as possible, with maximum casualties.

Fast forward and Hezbollah and Hamas are a direct result of Israeli massacres and land grabs. They didnt exist until Israel invaded. 

Hamas have been useful to Netanyahu as they have split the Palestinians, he is on record as saying ''We must support Hamas'' 

Credit to Hezbollah though they only attack military targets.

Imagine if every hospital had been destroyed in Israel, every school blown up, 42 650 dead, 102 000 injured and 95% of all buildings destroyed, electricity cut off, water cut off and hardly any food allowed in.....

[Fulham Broadway 16,774]

5 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

One Greek twink blow me in Chania

Was it Comic ?