Politics & Stuff

[Fulham Broadway 16,837]

On ‎05‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 2:05 PM, CHOULO19 said:

You said that everything is up for debate.

-I said No, equal civil and human rights for everyone are not debatable. Meaning that even if a majority think that a group of people should have less rights than others the state cannot take away those people's rights.

Sorry for the wait;

Civil Rights and Human rights, you'd think were not debateable. However, I bet Myanmar if you approached their govt  would say they have human rights, yet clearly they don't. Maybe they do, perhaps the notion of human rights is subjective ? If you went to an American in 1950s Alabama they'd swear they have human rights. In this country both Labour and Tory bang on about how they adhere to the HRA. Yet, by the same token they pass the Snoopers Charter whereby all your texts, e mails, phone calls can be examined by lots of different organisations.

If we believe in democracy, we have to recognise that freedom must be defended in the democratic arena. The kind of freedom we should strive for cannot be handed down from on high by a judge in the High Court or the European Court of Human Rights. It has to be won through the democratic process. ie debated. And on a regular basis.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

1 hour ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Sorry for the wait;

Civil Rights and Human rights, you'd think were not debateable. However, I bet Myanmar if you approached their govt  would say they have human rights, yet clearly they don't. Maybe they do, perhaps the notion of human rights is subjective ? If you went to an American in 1950s Alabama they'd swear they have human rights. In this country both Labour and Tory bang on about how they adhere to the HRA. Yet, by the same token they pass the Snoopers Charter whereby all your texts, e mails, phone calls can be examined by lots of different organisations.

If we believe in democracy, we have to recognise that freedom must be defended in the democratic arena. The kind of freedom we should strive for cannot be handed down from on high by a judge in the High Court or the European Court of Human Rights. It has to be won through the democratic process. ie debated. And on a regular basis.

Don't disagree with much in there. Of course human and civil rights are not a constant, but they're not completely subjective either. Rights are a constant battle ground, but that is exactly why we write them into constitutions and don't give politicians who 'bang on' about them the power to unilaterally take them away. All I'm saying is that women's voting rights, for example, should not be destroyable by a vote.

Also, historically, rights and freedoms are gained and defended in the democratic arenas but in the streets through protests and even riots mostly against the beliefs of the majorities and the powerful. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,837]

58 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

Don't disagree with much in there. Of course human and civil rights are not a constant, but they're not completely subjective either. Rights are a constant battle ground, but that is exactly why we write them into constitutions and don't give politicians who 'bang on' about them the power to unilaterally take them away. All I'm saying is that women's voting rights, for example, should not be destroyable by a vote.

Also, historically, rights and freedoms are gained and defended in the democratic arenas but in the streets through protests and even riots mostly against the beliefs of the majorities and the powerful. 

Which brings us full circle to the original premise of no platforming of fascist/people with distasteful views. People that on the face of it would take away 'rights'. Banning such people, or worse imploring the State to do it empowers the state be it Mynamar, US, North Korea or UKThe state takes that as a green light to say 'We know what's best for you'. Very Orwellian. I have always believed such people should be challenged and argued. If you take for example the banned David Irving, he himself has admitted that since he was banned, he has had thousands of, mainly teenagers, reading his books and viewpoints on youtube. If he were platformed on Question Time or whatever, he would be destroyed, just as Nick Griffin was, and disappear into obscurity.

Your last bit about riots and civil disobedience is true. The working class get what they fight for. It will never be given. However, it has also been proven the most advances in terms of 'rights' for ordinary people in the UK have come about through reform, That's not to say a good tear up like the poll tax riots don't have their place.

[Fulham Broadway 16,837]

PRESIDENT Trump has demanded that a Super Double Caps Lock be created to better convey the force of his feelings on Twitter. 

Following the US appeal court’s refusal to lift his Muslim ban, Trump believes that computer keyboards need a new key to represent how emphatic and powerful his words are.

A White House spokesman said: “When the president typed ‘SEE YOU IN COURT, THE SECURITY OF OUR NATION IS AT STAKE!’ it was commanding, impressive and resolute.

“But unfortunately YouTube commenters calling pop videos ‘THE GAYMOST’ have lessened the impact of capital letters, meaning the tweet came across as impotent rage from a bewildered adult baby.

“Funding of $6.5 billion will create a Super Double Caps Lock key, reserved exclusively for presidential use, which will fully communicate the authority and import of President Trump’s statesmanlike tweets.

“The trial is set for October this year, when he will leave the world in awe with a series of epochal tweets about his daughter’s shoe line and a fabric softener commercial he feels is disrespecting him.”

Joe Turner of Kansas City said: “Has he tried using a whole bunch of exclamation marks? That always makes everyone take me seriously.”

[kmk108 1,186]

22 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

PRESIDENT Trump has demanded that a Super Double Caps Lock be created to better convey the force of his feelings on Twitter. 

Following the US appeal court’s refusal to lift his Muslim ban, Trump believes that computer keyboards need a new key to represent how emphatic and powerful his words are.

A White House spokesman said: “When the president typed ‘SEE YOU IN COURT, THE SECURITY OF OUR NATION IS AT STAKE!’ it was commanding, impressive and resolute.

“But unfortunately YouTube commenters calling pop videos ‘THE GAYMOST’ have lessened the impact of capital letters, meaning the tweet came across as impotent rage from a bewildered adult baby.

“Funding of $6.5 billion will create a Super Double Caps Lock key, reserved exclusively for presidential use, which will fully communicate the authority and import of President Trump’s statesmanlike tweets.

“The trial is set for October this year, when he will leave the world in awe with a series of epochal tweets about his daughter’s shoe line and a fabric softener commercial he feels is disrespecting him.”

Joe Turner of Kansas City said: “Has he tried using a whole bunch of exclamation marks? That always makes everyone take me seriously.”

For those that don't know, Big Joe Turner was a famous jazz shouter from Kansas City 

I love how he tweeted, "SEE YOU IN COURT". Isn't that what just shot down your ban?

[Spike 12,049]

18 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Are there any right wing comedians -apart fromTrump ?

 

15 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Some psychiatrist was analysing old Trumpy and said he had a narcissistic disorder, and no sense of humour  -perhaps a trait in right wingers

If we go by what right-wing actually is and not by the media caricature then near everyone is right. USA, England, Australia. I always found die-hard liberals far more condescending and self-righteous than conservatives. I've never been lectured by a conservative but the liberal always wants to scream why they are right whilst ignoring my personal reasons. They are always the type to say things like 'Oh you oppose abortion? I guess you hate women and their rights.' I live in the most red state in America and I'm still lectured like a child, where do these nutty liberals come from? I also have to say that the stupid Sunday morning abortion protests outside of clinics (a bunch ofold  fat women that love children) are pretty tame in comparison to the vitriol of seen from the left. 

.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/02/why-theres-no-conservative-jon-stewart/385480/

 

11 hours ago, kmk108 said:

Satire doesn't always involve playing a pantomime of something. They're all considered satirical news, because the main focus of the show is to get laughs.

You think it gets old because every show makes fun of your ideals. They are biased because they are appealing to a certain demographic of people, because they're job isn't primarily to spread news, it's to make jokes based on the news. Similar to what Chuolo said, the fact that their satirical nature isn't blatantly obvious says more about actual news sources.The audience of Comedy Central isn't conservatives. It's liberals. Comedy's audience is more liberal than conservative.

I don't think I'm particularly conservative. Everyone on here is incredibly left which makes me look conservative by comparison.

I love The Onion, because it goes both ways and never leaves a target untouched. For me, that is the only satirical news that is even worth consuming.

 

17 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

Well you were talking about Frankie Boyle; I don't think anything he's ever done classifies as journalism. 

Neither did Stewart or does Colbert. If people choose to take their news from their shows instead of papers and news channels says more about the state of main stream media.

As for John Oliver, I'm not his biggest fan, but he still does better journalism (not great but still better) than the majority of actual journalists. 

None of Oliver, Stewart or Colbert would be as successful and popular if it weren't for the massive gap in the quality of actual journalism and news reporting that's begging to be filled.

I'm trying to find the damn source, but I did read once that John Stewart has always desperately wanted to be a journalist over a comedian and has been trying to wiggle his way into the media. I think that is where my bias comes from. Day after day, I'm reading the same lefty diatribe, the same lefty comedians attacking the same low-hanging fruit, it is old and most of the time I feel none of them have the self-awareness to lampoon the ridiculous facets of their own ideology.

No it isn't because the media is failing (which it is). The reason those shows are so popular is because they are easy to consume, fast-pace jokes for the stoned college students to watch. There is little to no nuance to these programs and that is why I detest them. It is the lowest common denominator, just like Family Guy and The Simpsons. 

If I want political satire I'll watch Dr Strangelove, Four Lions or The Life of Brian, not comedy faux-news.

[Fulham Broadway 16,837]

10 hours ago, kmk108 said:

For those that don't know, Big Joe Turner was a famous jazz shouter from Kansas City 

Cheers. didn't know about Big Joe.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/feb/11/private-eye-flourishes-satires-new-golden-age-ridicule

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

27 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Cheers. didn't know about Big Joe.

Course you do F B he played along side Pates. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,837]

11 hours ago, Spike said:

If we go by what right-wing actually is and not by the media caricature then near everyone is right.

Bit of a sweeping statement - it all depends what is considered right wing - there are different shades of all political persuasions -often right wing libertarians share much in common with anarchism-ie minimalist state intervention in peoples lives, and leave everything to the market.

11 hours ago, Spike said:

always found die-hard liberals far more condescending and self-righteous than conservatives. I've never been lectured by a conservative but the liberal always wants to scream why they are right whilst ignoring my personal reasons.

I don't know what it's like in the US now, but when I was there it really varied from State to State and City to City. 'Liberal' means something different in the UK as does 'pissed'. Perhaps when you're conversing with them they are looking at the bigger picture, people as a whole, rather than just your personal circumstances.

11 hours ago, Spike said:

(a bunch ofold  fat women that love children) are pretty tame in comparison to the vitriol of seen from the left. 

Whats wrong with 'old fat women that love children' ? Again the 'left' now to me just seems in the main as someone in the middle ground, not like leftists during the Cold War, but just someone with moderate views. Jesus if he was around nowadays would be called a lefty liberal snowflake immigrant.

[lucio 5,418]

43 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Bit of a sweeping statement - it all depends what is considered right wing - there are different shades of all political persuasions -often right wing libertarians share much in common with anarchism-ie minimalist state intervention in peoples lives, and leave everything to the market.

I don't know what it's like in the US now, but when I was there it really varied from State to State and City to City. 'Liberal' means something different in the UK as does 'pissed'. Perhaps when you're conversing with them they are looking at the bigger picture, people as a whole, rather than just your personal circumstances.

Whats wrong with 'old fat women that love children' ? Again the 'left' now to me just seems in the main as someone in the middle ground, not like leftists during the Cold War, but just someone with moderate views. Jesus if he was around nowadays would be called a lefty liberal snowflake immigrant.

thats just the girly jesus we see portrayed in artwork and things. He was probably pretty alpha tbh

[Fernando 6,455]

1 hour ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Bit of a sweeping statement - it all depends what is considered right wing - there are different shades of all political persuasions -often right wing libertarians share much in common with anarchism-ie minimalist state intervention in peoples lives, and leave everything to the market.

I don't know what it's like in the US now, but when I was there it really varied from State to State and City to City. 'Liberal' means something different in the UK as does 'pissed'. Perhaps when you're conversing with them they are looking at the bigger picture, people as a whole, rather than just your personal circumstances.

Whats wrong with 'old fat women that love children' ? Again the 'left' now to me just seems in the main as someone in the middle ground, not like leftists during the Cold War, but just someone with moderate views. Jesus if he was around nowadays would be called a lefty liberal snowflake immigrant.

You can say half of it. Because yes he would welcome immigrants, homosexuals, adulteress, prostitute, thieves and all that. 

But nonetheless he was also a very intolerant person. For example take a look at this: 

⁶ Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. ² The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep.

⁷ Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. ⁸ All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. ⁹ I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.^[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. ¹⁰ The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

¹¹ “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

 

Here Jesus says there is no other way but through him. Hence calling all other religions false. Very Intolerant thing to say, but that is who Jesus also was. 

P.S. Pharisees in that day was the religious class that was more focus looking good on the outside but nothing in the inside. Jesus challenges them to change this and condemns them if they keep the same lifestyle. In today modern society that would be someone saying that is a christian but his actions say otherwise. Like I go to Church on Sundays and be all good but then Monday to Friday I curse at people, have lusting thoughts on my heart, hate my brother, etc etc. Externally I'm all good when I go to Church on Sunday, but internally I'm filled of all wickedness and malice. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,837]

Trump wouldn't let him in the US.

But if he managed to sneak in he'd feed New Yorks homeless with the loaves and fishes, and kick David Blaines ass with that turning water into wine shit. Hallelujah !

[Spike 12,049]

43 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Trump wouldn't let him in the US.

But if he managed to sneak in he'd feed New Yorks homeless with the loaves and fishes, and kick David Blaines ass with that turning water into wine shit. Hallelujah !

Trump didn't ban Israelis.

 

2 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Bit of a sweeping statement - it all depends what is considered right wing - there are different shades of all political persuasions -often right wing libertarians share much in common with anarchism-ie minimalist state intervention in peoples lives, and leave everything to the market.

I don't know what it's like in the US now, but when I was there it really varied from State to State and City to City. 'Liberal' means something different in the UK as does 'pissed'. Perhaps when you're conversing with them they are looking at the bigger picture, people as a whole, rather than just your personal circumstances.

Whats wrong with 'old fat women that love children' ? Again the 'left' now to me just seems in the main as someone in the middle ground, not like leftists during the Cold War, but just someone with moderate views. Jesus if he was around nowadays would be called a lefty liberal snowflake immigrant.

It's not a sweeping statement when it a fact that opinions can be categorised onto a graph. Democrats aren't left, they are just left of the Republicans. It isn't what is 'considered' at all, traditional left v right only takes into account economics, completely ignoring social issues. 

No, communism and socialism are becoming the new norm of what is left. The youth of America is embracing ideologies they don't understand. More than once I've had my opinion disregarded by a lefty because I'm foreign, that isn't moderate, it's hypocritical. They embrace immigration and diversity but reject and chastise (white men like me) with different ideas but at the same time they wouldn't dare do the same to a Muslim or a immigrant that wasn't white. I've even been told by lefties that only white people can be racist. This isn't moderate for me, it's complete insanity. Actual classical liberalism is closer to American conservatism than you realise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_the_United_States

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

There is nothing wrong with 'old fat women that love children' and I didn't say anything of the sort. In fact I actually complimented their civil nature in protest, especially when compared to a bunch of children that loot and destroy businesses because they are upset with the president. 

[Spike 12,049]

I've yet to met a hard 'lefty' that can convince me on several subjects

• Abortion is immoral outside of very select circumstances. Rape, molestation and severe genetic defects are the only time I'll accept abortion. Haha, I know it's eugenics; but I can at least see the justification for abortion when they are issues like that.
• Suing someone on the basis of 'rejecting to bake a cake due to homosexuality' is hypocritical and is a two way street of discrimination; sexual and religious. The free market can handle situations like this, and no-one is entitled to another's labour. 
• Higher taxes and other thieving taxation laws. Why is the government entitled to more of my money when they waste so much of it on unnecessary programs? Hey, hey, hey let's give a $200,000 grant to find out why Wikipedia is sexist! WHY CAN THE GOVERNMENT TAX ME YEARLY ON THE 'VALUE' OF MY CAR WHEN I'VE ALREADY PAYED SALES TAX?
• More government and more bureaucracy. It's ridiculous how inefficient it is in America but people want more layers to the cake. Did you know that the health-department still knocks scores off restaurants if they have dents in their canned goods? Did you know that canned goods are no longer made of tin so the metal doesn't flake when dented ergo making that regulation completely redundant? It just so they can extract more money from entrepreneurs that create jobs.
• Open borders. No borders, no country. Mexico kicks illegals to the curb without remorse, so why cannot America do the same?

[Fulham Broadway 16,837]

13 minutes ago, Spike said:

Trump didn't ban Israelis

He;d ban a beardy weirdy from the Middle East in robe. Jesus ethnicity is unknown -presumably the 'Son of God' didn't have one. Many state he was black.

15 minutes ago, Spike said:

communism and socialism are becoming the new norm of what is left

Seriously ? Is that the left in the US now ?

17 minutes ago, Spike said:

They embrace immigration and diversity but reject and chastise (white men like me)

I am white and was welcomed everywhere in California, Compton, Red Onion Club, etc. I think a lot is how you talk to people. Funnily enough they thought I was Australian !

I found some offensive redneck types in Arizona, saying Clinton was a communist, blacks are muggers, Hispanics rapists etc as if they were teaching me. But quite often the conservative bigots and racists don't overtly say they hate black people, instead they play it safe and attack the 'liberals'.

[Spike 12,049]

1 minute ago, Fulham Broadway said:

He;d ban a beardy weirdy from the Middle East in robe. Jesus ethnicity is unknown -presumably the 'Son of God' didn't have one. Many state he was black.

Seriously ? Is that the left in the US now ?

I am white and was welcomed everywhere in California, Compton, Red Onion Club, etc. I think a lot is how you talk to people. Funnily enough they thought I was Australian !

I found some offensive redneck types in Arizona, saying Clinton was a communist, blacks are muggers, Hispanics rapists etc as if they were teaching me. But quite often the conservative bigots and racists don't overtly say they hate black people, instead they play it safe and attack the 'liberals'.

He was from the Levant, he was a Semitic person and they are Caucasoid. No, he wasn't black and Trump isn't banning black people. That isn't black: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35120965

Yes, it really is moving in that direction.

I never said I wasn't welcomed, never once. I said my ethnicity has been used in debates against me to nullify my opinions. People have assumed I'm racist because I'm Australian.

I've found those people as well, I've never disputed their existence but I'm not making the debate for rednecks, am I? I just stated that there are liberal bigots and racists but you waived it off when you mentioned your own experiences. The liberals do the exact same thing, all election long they painted anywhere that voted red as a bunch of 'racists and bigots' when it simply isn't true, same as your redneck types. But in saying that just because they are redneck doesn't mean they are conservative or right. The left isn't an exclusive zone of racism, and the fact that you assume that someone is conservative because they are a bigot or racist is highly flagging about your own bias. Reading your post it almost implies that conservative are only white.

What I'm more concerned about is the reasoning why people assume these thing about rednecks, blacks and hispanics. Let's have a look at rednecks first, why do people assume they are conservative? Is it because the leftists parties are more focused on the cities? Or is it because the republicans lie to them about returning their manufacturing jobs? Or is because Democrats want to take away their guns and their way of life? Why do conservatives have a stigma for being racist? Is it because they pander to middle-America where historically more racist areas are found? Or is it because racists flock to the republican party because of the Democrats obsession with the black and Hispanic votes alienating many poor white people? Why do blacks have a reputation for being muggers? Is it because most muggers in America are black? Is it because blacks have the highest amount of crime in America? Is it because people are racist? Why are hispanics seen as rapists? Is it because the coyotes that smuggle people in from Mexico rape nearly every single woman that immigrates? Is it because the poor Mexican woman that just wants a better life in Mexico knows she will be raped by a coyote so she takes Plan B and other contraceptives before hoping the border?

Instead of being upset there are racists that view blacks as mugger and hispanics are rapists, I'd rather focus on the patterns as to why people assume these things about them. I'd rather help the black person that lives in poverty so chooses a life of crime over lecturing a redneck why he shouldn't be racist. I'd rather tighten border security so a lot less women are raped on the way over to America than to lecture people why Hispanics aren't rapists. These things happen and they are problems, the patterns appear and the 'stereotypes' don't appear out of middair. I'd also like the Democrats and the Republicans to stop lying to America and forcing identity politics (the reason you assume a redneck is conservative) down our throats, but that isn't going to happen... Your'e observing the same patterns about rednecks being racist conservatives as they about blacks and hispanics; i.e. it happens in patterns and we associate.

All I care about is the truth and I'll fight for the truth even if it is disgusting. You think I like sticking up for Trump? I don't, I dislike the fellow but between everyone on this forum, I feel like I'm the only one that wants to look at him objectively without rushing to absurd accusations and claims. 

[Fernando 6,455]

35 minutes ago, Spike said:

I've yet to met a hard 'lefty' that can convince me on several subjects

• Abortion is immoral outside of very select circumstances. Rape, molestation and severe genetic defects are the only time I'll accept abortion. Haha, I know it's eugenics; but I can at least see the justification for abortion when they are issues like that.
• Suing someone on the basis of 'rejecting to bake a cake due to homosexuality' is hypocritical and is a two way street of discrimination; sexual and religious. The free market can handle situations like this, and no-one is entitled to another's labour. 
• Higher taxes and other thieving taxation laws. Why is the government entitled to more of my money when they waste so much of it on unnecessary programs? Hey, hey, hey let's give a $200,000 grant to find out why Wikipedia is sexist! WHY CAN THE GOVERNMENT TAX ME YEARLY ON THE 'VALUE' OF MY CAR WHEN I'VE ALREADY PAYED SALES TAX?
• More government and more bureaucracy. It's ridiculous how inefficient it is in America but people want more layers to the cake. Did you know that the health-department still knocks scores off restaurants if they have dents in their canned goods? Did you know that canned goods are no longer made of tin so the metal doesn't flake when dented ergo making that regulation completely redundant? It just so they can extract more money from entrepreneurs that create jobs.
• Open borders. No borders, no country. Mexico kicks illegals to the curb without remorse, so why cannot America do the same?

You only look at the case of the women, but what about that life? I know of many cases where a women was raped and the child was born and grew up. 

My pastor was one of those. His mom wanted to abort him but she changed her mind and now look at him. Otherwise let's just kill my pastor right now because his mom had the right to abort him...... 

No matter what, you are still taking life that is not yours. Its murder to me because the baby has the right to live. 

Weather you don't want the kid is another story. You can always give the kid away but at least your giving that baby a chance to survive.