Politics & Stuff

[kmk108 1,186]

29 minutes ago, Spike said:

Obama also had the media in his pocket and a personality cult. They were deathly afraid of criticising him and rabidly defended him when he was. The fact that there are people in the States with Obama number stickers, t-shirts, etc. is actually quite a concerning phenomenon. I think people are a lot more tolerant of dictators than they realise.

It's funny really, Obama deported more Mexicans than any other presidente. 

Don't forget that there was a large contingent of people criticizing Obama. Remember the birther movement? Everyone saying he's a closet Muslim (because we're scared of any president that isn't a Christian I guess)? People not liking the fact that he is black?

Of course, I think what Trump will do will always be under a bigger microscope than Obama, but that doesn't mean Obama got a free pass.

I don't buy into this "fake media" BS. Sure, they have their slants and their narratives, but that's not fake news. The Onion is fake news. What I find concerning is Trump calling these news outlets fake news. When we keep letting a president de-legitimize free press, we're heading down a very, very, very dangerous path.

Quote

In saying that though, I do draw a line in difference between having a 'Hope' shirt during the '07 election to wearing an Obama shirt in 2016. Getting caught up in the campaign storm is very different to outright adoration. If people still unironically wear a MAGA hat in a couple months, then I'd start worrying.

A couple months? I think it'll be much longer. Unless things slow down, he's going to run into detractors at every turn, and those that support him will be in even more solidarity and become even more public with their support.

[kmk108 1,186]

4 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

Also, the lack of media coverage for the terrorist attack on a Mosque in Canada seemingly by a white supremacist is shocking even by my incredibly low expectations of US media. 

Here's the test for US media:
 

1) Does it affect Americans?

2) Is there something else going on in the US that we can cover?

3) Can we make this a US issue?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

3 minutes ago, kmk108 said:

Here's the test for US media:
 

1) Does it affect Americans?

2) Is there something else going on in the US that we can cover?

3) Can we make this a US issue?

So true, But then you have Fox on a level of their own just flat out lying. They falsely claimed that the attacker was a Moroccan. I mean, how low can you go?!

[Fernando 6,455]

13 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

The ban has absolutely nothing to do with safety and security, if anything it will only make the US more hated in the world. Even if you ignore human rights and follow Trumps bigoted logic (which you shouldn't) the countries banned don't make any sense:

Trump did not select the countries, Obama did and his thinking was not to protect US citizens but to put political pressure on those countries that were not conforming to US policies and imperial interests.

It's very simple why Trump and many republicans support such insane ideas as extending Obama's bans onto everyone including green card holders: first it feeds into the fear-mongering and usvsthem mentality that they can't exist without and secondly immigrants consistently vote left wing. I can't be arsed to find the stats now but a higher percentage of Muslim Americans consistently vote Democrat than any demographic (Jews, Hispanic...etc.) except black.

There is no logical way that this ban is about anything to do with terrorist attacks. The existing system of background checks after 9/11 already more than covers the dangers. Here is the terrorist attack threat by immigrants on US soil in context:

 

Here is an article from 2015 about Refugees...it's time to understand how Hijrah works.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260019/hijrah-europe-robert-spencer

[iseah100 5,612]

On 1/23/2017 at 9:13 PM, Fernando said:

I'm happy that at least we got some Christian values. That was lost with the Muslim Obama. And that we have some pro Israel people as well. 

But then again actions speak louder then words. So we shall see what are his actions. So far it's just words, praying in the name of Jesus reading the Bible are nice, but that's just lip service if the actions don't match. 

2

2

1. Obama was not Muslim. 

2. The Founding Fathers were almost all deists and strongly supported separation of Church and state. 

3. A radical Christian killed 6 people at a mosque yesterday. Your religion is no better, in fact, it's worse. People like you are the reason there are so many terrorist attacks. Your views on the world would be better suited to the bronze age. 
 

 

 

This ban, the wall, Steve Bannon (a white supremacist) replacing the JCOS at the NSC meetings, DeVos as SOE, Sessions as Attorney General, Tillerson as Secretary of State, Price's corruption still getting him a cabinet position, Munchin (Trump)(allegedly) buying 19.5% of Rosneft, Climate Change denial, alienating and threatening our allies, alternative facts, the constant lying and the firing of all the staff at the state department, the DAPL and Keystone Pipeline. All in 11 days, it's crazy. When Ben Carson is the best Cabinet Pick so far there is a problem. This is genuinely worrying. I'm sure I'm missing something but Jesus. This is the beginning of the end for the United States. It genuinely feels like we are on the brink of something catastrophic. Especially when Congress just bends over and refuses to stand for anything. 

[Spike 12,049]

26 minutes ago, iseah100 said:

1. Obama was not Muslim. 

2. The Founding Fathers were almost all deists and strongly supported separation of Church and state. 

3. A radical Christian killed 6 people at a mosque yesterday. Your religion is no better, in fact, it's worse. People like you are the reason there are so many terrorist attacks. Your views on the world would be better suited to the bronze age. 
 

 

 

This ban, the wall, Steve Bannon (a white supremacist) replacing the JCOS at the NSC meetings, DeVos as SOE, Sessions as Attorney General, Tillerson as Secretary of State, Price's corruption still getting him a cabinet position, Munchin (Trump)(allegedly) buying 19.5% of Rosneft, Climate Change denial, alienating and threatening our allies, alternative facts, the constant lying and the firing of all the staff at the state department, the DAPL and Keystone Pipeline. All in 11 days, it's crazy. When Ben Carson is the best Cabinet Pick so far there is a problem. This is genuinely worrying. I'm sure I'm missing something but Jesus. This is the beginning of the end for the United States. It genuinely feels like we are on the brink of something catastrophic. Especially when Congress just bends over and refuses to stand for anything. 

1. True.

2. The separation of church and state does not separate the fact that the USA was founded on a basic moral principle derived from Christianity and Empiricism. The entire western world was founded on Chrisitanity.

3. Wrong, that is completely based on conjecture and fear. The Quebec police have arrested one suspect and disclosed no information regarding the attacker besides his name. There have been zero reports that the attack was carried out by a Christian Radical. You are doing exactly what many people do with alleged Muslim Attacks, you are filling in the blanks with your own agenda and assumptions.  

Your attack on Fernando is actually quite shameful and hypocritical, in the USA, he is allowed the freedom of speech and religion and you shaming that right by suggesting it belongs in the stone age. Fernando or people like him aren't the reason for terrorist attacks, at some point you have to place blame on the actual perpetrators, not the victims. From a non-biased perspective, I'd rather live under Papal law than Sharia.

Steve Bannon is not a white supremacist. White Supremacists do not in fact hire gay Jews with a fetish for black men to be their editor-in-cheif. White supremacists don't inherit a website founded by a Jew. White supremacists do not work for Goldhman Sachs (a Jewish company) for years

There has been zero statements that directly deny climate change.

What allies have been alienated and threatened?

What is wrong with the pipeline? Do you not want ethical oil from Canada? Do you prefer having oil shipped in from Saudi Arabia, a country with a list of human rights violations longer than the golden gate bridge?

 

[Fernando 6,455]

59 minutes ago, iseah100 said:

1. Obama was not Muslim. 

2. The Founding Fathers were almost all deists and strongly supported separation of Church and state. 

3. A radical Christian killed 6 people at a mosque yesterday. Your religion is no better, in fact, it's worse. People like you are the reason there are so many terrorist attacks. Your views on the world would be better suited to the bronze age. 
 

 

 

This ban, the wall, Steve Bannon (a white supremacist) replacing the JCOS at the NSC meetings, DeVos as SOE, Sessions as Attorney General, Tillerson as Secretary of State, Price's corruption still getting him a cabinet position, Munchin (Trump)(allegedly) buying 19.5% of Rosneft, Climate Change denial, alienating and threatening our allies, alternative facts, the constant lying and the firing of all the staff at the state department, the DAPL and Keystone Pipeline. All in 11 days, it's crazy. When Ben Carson is the best Cabinet Pick so far there is a problem. This is genuinely worrying. I'm sure I'm missing something but Jesus. This is the beginning of the end for the United States. It genuinely feels like we are on the brink of something catastrophic. Especially when Congress just bends over and refuses to stand for anything. 

Founding fathers was Christian. Look at the language and history. 

Nonetheless as to per "radical Christian" I think that goes back to what I said before, what indoctrination they are being thought?

This is why because of this "indoctrination" we will see that total surveillance state I'm worried about. 

And last alienating and threating our allies? Your joking right? Because Obama was the biggest person to do this with Israel. 

Israel is our number one Allied. And for a Christian nation Israel is our spiritual roots. Christianity emerge from Jews. They and no one else should be our number one ally. 

I hope Trump at least recognize this. 

[-Kaplan- 410]

Ben Carson was one of the most gifted neurosurgeons of the last 40 years or so. 

If you listened to the media however, you'd think the guy couldn't tie his own laces. 

Granted, medical aptitude ≠ political awareness, but still shows how biased the media is. They absolutely ran this guy into the ground. 

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,919]

6 hours ago, Spike said:

I wasn't talking about Islam, I was just using a hypothetical example. Though it should be noted there are major issues in Pakistan and Afghanistan concerning paedophilia. Just as you, I'm no expert on the subject; so I can't say for sure where the lines of culture and Islam cross over; you should look into it; really nasty stuff. A fellow I know that served in the US Marines for a decade stated that US army personnel were told not to intervene when issues like domestic violence, rape, sexual abuse, etc were happening. 'Just turn a blind eye'. You may disagree but many nations are failed states with failed cultures; there are always outliers but nothing is made equal. It's a sad reality but not everyone can integrate but for those that do, fantastic. I've nothing against Islam (like all religions it can change, adapt and bend to modern society), but I do question very deeply the culture of the nations where fundamental-Islam tends to flourish. The culture of Saudi Arabia for example is an antithesis to the USA. I don't give a toss if a Saudi is a closet Atheist, if he identifies with the culture of Saudi, then it raises red-flags for me. There are extremists all over the world but the socio-economic issues of the middle-east tends to propagate extremism.

If that is your barometre for a militarised society then nearly every nation in the history of humanity falls under that. I can give you a few examples; Switzerland had a huge economy based on mercenaries, Prussia, French Revolution, Great Leap Forward, Bolshevik Revolution, British Colonialism, three Japanese civil wars, Cuban Revolution, Yugoslavic War, Crusades, Jihads, Vietnam War, Korean War, 1st French Empire, Sudanese Civil War, and even Australia and New Zealand's cultural identity was forged in the World Wars. As far as I'm concerned there has been very few militarised societies in human history (Sparta, Prussia, Mongols, Sengoku and Edo-Japan for example). The USA was born from a lot less blood than many older civilisations. 

There is more to a culture than how a household is ran. Just because you eat different foods and have different rules doesn't mean you don't follow the same American morality or culture. Diversity is ultimately a weakness for any nation, because if a nation is pulled into four different directions it is just drawn and quartered. Divide and conquer, that is how nations are destroyed. Drive a wedge in between a social class, an ethnic group or a language group and you've got issues. People are strong with a common identity, it doesn't matter what sort of sub-culture or minor difference you observe at the home. An East-Coaster and a Southerner still have far more in common with each other than a Nigerian. I'm against the dilution of culture, I'd rather a world where American, Brazilians, Japanese, Koreans, Australians, English, French, South-African and Turks all have their differences. Though not all cultures are created equally and I don't particularly miss the cannibalism of many Polynesian peoples.

 

 

There is no equality in nature, that I believe, but I wouldnt necessarily say a culture is failed just because there are some unsavory elements on display. I think different cultures developed to their specific points based on factors that were specific to them during their development. The rape and other sexual violence is very problematic, but the Domestic Abuse one is pretty common. I think intervening between a man and his wife arguing is something that is a very recent western idea. In the past what a man did to his wife was a very private thing over here, and still is in most parts of the world.

 

Most of the nations you list, that I know of, would definitely be considered going by my barometer. I was shocked when I visited Paris to see as many guns as I did. Even more than the handguns our officers have down here. I feel we are able to put a nice veneer over our modern society, but peel away a little bit and we are as shallow and warlike in our communities as we have always been. Its human nature in the end.

 

What would an American morality entail for you? Surely even that is divided seeing as the American people,overall, struggle to agree on major moral issues of today such as Abortion, and the role of the federal government. Even in the past it was the same way. There was a civil war based on the disagreement Americans had on whether or not they could own other people lol.  

 

Diversity is an interesting thing. I would agree diverse populations make it harder to create a "unified identity" in the traditional sense, but I do think when done well it can produce much better results than homogenous nations in similar circumstances. In biology diversity, in an organism, will usually mean a stronger being thanks to their being more positive traits to pull from. This manifests itself in many ways.  People being attracted to Brazilian(and Latin American) women for their exotic looks that come from being racially mixed, Mixed-race Diverse athletes being overrepresented in sports relative to their population size(Very prevalent in Football), and forms of music developed by diverse types being popular worldwide.Take American invention in music. Rock and Roll,Jazz,Country,Rap..ect are music forms that are popular worldwide, and only exists because a diverse pot was able to mix many different sources and experiences to create something that has been one of the biggest examples of American greatness and influence worldwide.  It would be expected the east-coaster and a southerner would have more in common than they would a Nigerian, but in a diverse country even this is not something we could really take for granted. What if the Southerner was a Nigerian American raised in Nigerian culture at home by their parents? My sister is 10000000% American, but if she alone was compared to a person living in suburban Tokyo or a person living in  suburban  Dakotas she would probably have more in common with the former based on heritage,perception given away to the world, and expectation from family. Thats what you get with diverse populations

 

 

[Spike 12,049]

8 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

There is no equality in nature, that I believe, but I wouldnt necessarily say a culture is failed just because there are some unsavory elements on display. I think different cultures developed to their specific points based on factors that were specific to them during their development. The rape and other sexual violence is very problematic, but the Domestic Abuse one is pretty common. I think intervening between a man and his wife arguing is something that is a very recent western idea. In the past what a man did to his wife was a very private thing over here, and still is in most parts of the world.

 

Most of the nations you list, that I know of, would definitely be considered going by my barometer. I was shocked when I visited Paris to see as many guns as I did. Even more than the handguns our officers have down here. I feel we are able to put a nice veneer over our modern society, but peel away a little bit and we are as shallow and warlike in our communities as we have always been. Its human nature in the end.

 

What would an American morality entail for you? Surely even that is divided seeing as the American people,overall, struggle to agree on major moral issues of today such as Abortion, and the role of the federal government. Even in the past it was the same way. There was a civil war based on the disagreement Americans had on whether or not they could own other people lol.  

 

Diversity is an interesting thing. I would agree diverse populations make it harder to create a "unified identity" in the traditional sense, but I do think when done well it can produce much better results than homogenous nations in similar circumstances. In biology diversity, in an organism, will usually mean a stronger being thanks to their being more positive traits to pull from. This manifests itself in many ways.  People being attracted to Brazilian(and Latin American) women for their exotic looks that come from being racially mixed, Mixed-race Diverse athletes being overrepresented in sports relative to their population size(Very prevalent in Football), and forms of music developed by diverse types being popular worldwide.Take American invention in music. Rock and Roll,Jazz,Country,Rap..ect are music forms that are popular worldwide, and only exists because a diverse pot was able to mix many different sources and experiences to create something that has been one of the biggest examples of American greatness and influence worldwide.  It would be expected the east-coaster and a southerner would have more in common than they would a Nigerian, but in a diverse country even this is not something we could really take for granted. What if the Southerner was a Nigerian American raised in Nigerian culture at home by their parents? My sister is 10000000% American, but if she alone was compared to a person living in suburban Tokyo or a person living in  suburban  Dakotas she would probably have more in common with the former based on heritage,perception given away to the world, and expectation from family. Thats what you get with diverse populations

 

 

American morality really echoes the moral codes of Judaism and Christianity. When I think of Americans, I honestly do believe that charity, brotherly love, altruism and equality. You mentioned earlier the veneer of modern society, well if you look past the rampant consumerism and shallowness there is a sincere desire for equality in all areas, whether misdirected or not is up for debate. America is the most charitable nation in the world (as it should be) and the top 1% of Americans are the most charitable people in the world (Occupy Wall Street wouldn't tell you that). I recall reading one of the fundamental concepts of Jewish morality is charity and tithing no matter how much material wealth one possesses. The idea is that everyone is eternally giving to one another that which one needs, and you can see this with the huge amounts of charitable wealth that is donated nationally and internationally. The USA ended slavery, one of the first nations to do so, created a huge welfare system (its positive net outcome can be debated), has allowed millions of migrants to create new lives and a constitution that promotes freedom and equality.

Take the following anecdote how you will.  Slavery in America began with the capturing of African tribesmen by other Africans, mainly Barbaries and Magrebhis, if I recall correctly. The captured men and women would be sold off to mainly western-Europeans and Middle-Easterners. The middle-easterns would castrate all their slaves to prevent procreation, that is why you don't see many sub-Saharan peoples roaming around the middle-east these days. The Europeans on the other hand didn't do that and allowed their slaves to reproduce. An interesting dichotomy arouse amongst European slave owners. Indentured Servants (owned for about nine years) and slaves. The former were nearly exclusively Irish in the states. They were more prone to sun burns, and tropical diseases. On top of the fact they were only 'leased' for a limited period of time, they were worked to death. Many indentured servants died before their lease was over. On the other hand, the African slaves were treated horribly but they were seen as far more desirable and valuable then the white servants. They were far less often worked to death in unsuitable conditions. Eventually after many years, around 700,000 white people died fighting a war that somewhat concerned slavery and a surprisingly racist president got shot in the back of his head by a crazy thespian. I had a point with this story but I forget because my wife starting talking to me. 

Yes, America has a dirty history but every nation does. You must weigh the positives against the negatives; for America I'd say the former far outweigh the latter. I'd take ending slavery, civil rights, women's suffrage, the constitution and charity over throwing gays from roofs and refusing women to drive cars.

[Fernando 6,455]

Iran conducted ballistic missile test, violating UN resolution https://beholdisraelnews.wordpress.com/2017/01/31/iran-conducted-ballistic-missile-test-violating-un-resolution/

 

Of course the United nothing will do nothing about it and just continue their bias against Israel.... 

[kmk108 1,186]

55 minutes ago, -Kaplan- said:

Ben Carson was one of the most gifted neurosurgeons of the last 40 years or so. 

If you listened to the media however, you'd think the guy couldn't tie his own laces. 

Granted, medical aptitude ≠ political awareness, but still shows how biased the media is. They absolutely ran this guy into the ground. 

I think that's the problem. I didn't have a problem with him (aside from some comments he made while running), but he really seemed out of his depth when it came to politics. Hell, he didn't even think he had the political experience for a cabinet position.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

9 hours ago, Fernando said:

Here is an article from 2015 about Refugees...it's time to understand how Hijrah works.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260019/hijrah-europe-robert-spencer

       

That was beyond hilarious! 

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Trump and his America first policy may have good intentions for American people alone, but his lack of detailed explanations is leaving room for democratic media outlets (huge majority in America) to twist the news how ever they like. Everyone is asking why ban countries that have never committed terrorist attacks in America, but people don't know that the seven countries he banned are countries which even Obama's administration noted as high possible destinations for dispersed ISIS members to flee to and try to infiltrate the west through the refugee program. While everyone is asking why he didn't he add Saudi Arabia and Qatar who actually have immigrants that have committed terrorist attacks in America but they don't know that these countries rarely take immigrants and are better vetted than others. Trump is no Obama in terms of explaining details of what he wants to do and the left media is taking advantage and crucifying him.

Trump doesn't know how to play politics too, the Democrats intentionally delay Trumps nominee for attorney general and he is forced to remain with an Obama appointee as his attorney. Now Trump has realized she won't back a Republican, he now sacks her during this controversial period when he should have done it much earlier since she was always going to be replaced once Jeff sessions is confirmed anyways. The ban which she claims is illegal doesn't have the word "muslim" written in the executive order so she doesn't have much of a legal ground to stand on and the attorney general is a member of the executive branch anyways, it is not her job to say whether the ban is illegal or not, it is the job of the independent supreme Court.

Obama fired general James Mattis for disagreeing with the Iran deal and I didn't see any fuss in the media about it. Now Trump is being called an authoritarian president when doing similar? This bias is unreal.... Maybe I'm watching too much CNN. 

[BoyBlue96 990]

This topic should be renamed to "The Trump Topic". 

[Fernando 6,455]

14 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

So true, But then you have Fox on a level of their own just flat out lying. They falsely claimed that the attacker was a Moroccan. I mean, how low can you go?!

Well they actually had a second man who was Moroccan Called Mohammed Belkhadir as an original suspect but then they let him go. 

I think Fox done the same mistake CNN did a couple of weeks ago, report something that was not fully accurate. 

[Fernando 6,455]

JEWISH GROUPS CONDEMN DEADLY ATTACK ON QUEBEC MOSQUE

"This was an attack on Canada, not only on one mosque. Indeed, it was an attack on any democratic society founded on religious pluralism that today faces threats against its Muslim populations."

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Jewish-groups-condemn-attack-on-Quebec-mosque-480035

[BoyBlue96 990]

I believe Donald Trump's title is President of the United States. Not president of the world.