Politics & Stuff

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

On December 6, 2016 at 1:45 PM, 11Drogba said:

He is a useful idiot to them. I bet many of his weirdo lovers/supporters think they could cure people like him with therapy.

 

He actually got banned from Twitter. I mean, that place is the wild west. He is a useful tool to have in the current climate of Identity politics though. 

 

A homosexual, who brags about his lust of African American men, who is able to fall back on that or his Judaism whenever called out by the left makes for an interesting target. It seems he was raised a Catholic though so the religion/identity part seems a bit of a far crutch. Do you as a Jewish person consider him Jewish? I think I read lineage is passed through the mom with Jewish identity. Thats the exact opposite with us I think. Usually no matter the mom if your dad is Asian most would consider you Asian, and if your dad is other you are considered that.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

On 12/6/2016 at 8:32 PM, Spike said:

I've come to the conclusion that the left is entirely hypocritical of sexuality. If sexuality is indeed malleable and fluid as they say it is, then a gay person is allowed to undergo Gay Conversion Therapy under their own discretion. As long as no objective and observational harm comes to a child then the government has no right in telling parents how to raise their child. If a fifteen year-old boy approaches his parents and says "I do not like being attracted to men, it makes me uncomfortable" then the government has no right in how the boy and his parents handle the situation, whether that be therapy to change, or therapy to accept, it is the discretion of the family to choose. Sexuality isn't set in stone and if a straight person can become more attracted to the same sex over time then the same can happen in the opposite scenario. Government meddling in the private lives of the family is an obstruction of liberty.

You don't have to like it but if a gay person wants to be straight they are allowed to be. That is what sexual freedom is.

Also, I've read VP Pence's support of mandatory EST is a fabrication, there was so such statements ever made. 

How the hell is the answer to a child feeling uncomfortable with himself to "do unfounded science experiments on them" rather than "educate their community to become more accepting and loving of them"?!

The problem with parent's 'rights' to put their kids through homosexuality 'treatment' is that all the methods have been thoroughly studied scientifically in the 70s and 80s and conclusively debunked. It's basically mental torture. 

Families don't have the liberty to abuse their kids, even if it 'consensual' by the kids. That goes for sexual, physical and even mental abuse. 

[11Drogba 2,000]

Explosion in Istanbul after Besiktas game near Vodafone stadium. This is the team's channel I believe.

This is relevant.

 

[Spike 12,049]

13 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

How the hell is the answer to a child feeling uncomfortable with himself to "do unfounded science experiments on them" rather than "educate their community to become more accepting and loving of them"?!

The problem with parent's 'rights' to put their kids through homosexuality 'treatment' is that all the methods have been thoroughly studied scientifically in the 70s and 80s and conclusively debunked. It's basically mental torture. 

Families don't have the liberty to abuse their kids, even if it 'consensual' by the kids. That goes for sexual, physical and even mental abuse. 

I didn't say it was the answer and your point 'educate their community to become more accepting and loving of them' has nothing to do with this; there was nothing stated about outside influences from the community or society, that isn't even close to what I've posted. I stated 'I don't want to be attracted to men' not 'I don't want to be beacause I got bullied at shcool'. In the West we've largely accepted LGBTs but that doesn't mean an LGBT person necessarily wants to be that way. There may be many or there may be few but I'd wager some would like to have the opportunity to have their own child with the person they love, and there is nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong with being LGBT.

Besides, I didn't' directly state the child was gay, just they were attracted to the same sex. They could be Bi, they could just be curious, it could just be a brief period of life, they could just be confused going through puberty. I went through puberty and it's a weird and confusing  time. Another point is that sexuality changes, people change, usually not awfully too much but they do happen. That is why you'll met a lesbian and then ten years later she has a husband and two kids, I've seen it happen; or even the reverse.

For some bizarre reason, hormone therapy for a child that is 'transgender' is okay but gay conversion is immoral. To me they are both in the same ballpark and both must be treated as equally moral or immoral. Either both are illegal for persons under 18 years of age, or they are both legal.

Also I said this: 

Quote

As long as no objective and observational harm comes to a child then the government has no right in telling parents how to raise their child. If a fifteen year-old boy approaches his parents and says "I do not like being attracted to men, it makes me uncomfortable" then the government has no right in how the boy and his parents handle the situation, whether that be therapy to change, or therapy to accept, it is the discretion of the family to choose.

I did not state in any case that conversion therapy is harmful or harmless to a child, merely stating that the government has no right to intervene in any situation that does not cause harm to a child. If it were harmless to a child, then a family would have all rights to do so as long as it follows the child's will. 

It is not my personal belief that it is even an option to consider but that doesn't mean I would force a family or individuals to or not to choose whether their child or themselves goes through hormone therapy or gay conversion. If sexual rights and freedoms do exist then it is up to their own discretion how to live their lives.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

On 30-11-2016 at 10:42 PM, Fulham Broadway said:

Almost 1 in 10 fans would stop watching their team if a player said they were gay

A survey of 4000 football fans carried out for BBC Radio 4’s Afternoon Edition sheds light on the attitudes that persist within football.

82 percent of football fans said they would be comfortable with a gay player on a team, but 9% of football fans were uncomfortable.

The last taboo in football

 

Anyone here have an opinion on it ?

Got no problem with gay people. 

 

On 6-12-2016 at 7:32 PM, Spike said:

I've come to the conclusion that the left is entirely hypocritical of sexuality. If sexuality is indeed malleable and fluid as they say it is, then a gay person is allowed to undergo Gay Conversion Therapy under their own discretion. As long as no objective and observational harm comes to a child then the government has no right in telling parents how to raise their child. If a fifteen year-old boy approaches his parents and says "I do not like being attracted to men, it makes me uncomfortable" then the government has no right in how the boy and his parents handle the situation, whether that be therapy to change, or therapy to accept, it is the discretion of the family to choose. Sexuality isn't set in stone and if a straight person can become more attracted to the same sex over time then the same can happen in the opposite scenario. Government meddling in the private lives of the family is an obstruction of liberty.

You don't have to like it but if a gay person wants to be straight they are allowed to be. That is what sexual freedom is.

Also, I've read VP Pence's support of mandatory EST is a fabrication, there was so such statements ever made. 

I feel like the government is actually protecting the child from being influenced by parents/friends or simply the social pressure of wanting to fit in.(being normal)

I would say it's a similar situation to the government putting a minimum age for having sex. The government should, in theory, not have a say in when you are ready to have sex as that is a personal matter that's different for everyone

however this is done to protect the child from being influenced or being forced into doing something that they don't fully understand. The same applies for choosing your sexuality.

I think the problem is that at the end of the day it isn't up to the parents to decide what sexuality their child has. It's up to the child but can a child really decide something like that ? I don't know about you but as a child i had enough crap to deal with without my sexuality being up for debate. So the government takes the decision out of the parents and the childs hands until he is of a more suitable age(18) to make such an important decision.

 

 

[CHOULO19 24,332]

14 hours ago, Spike said:

I didn't say it was the answer and your point 'educate their community to become more accepting and loving of them' has nothing to do with this; there was nothing stated about outside influences from the community or society, that isn't even close to what I've posted. I stated 'I don't want to be attracted to men' not 'I don't want to be beacause I got bullied at shcool'. In the West we've largely accepted LGBTs but that doesn't mean an LGBT person necessarily wants to be that way. There may be many or there may be few but I'd wager some would like to have the opportunity to have their own child with the person they love, and there is nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong with being LGBT.

Besides, I didn't' directly state the child was gay, just they were attracted to the same sex. They could be Bi, they could just be curious, it could just be a brief period of life, they could just be confused going through puberty. I went through puberty and it's a weird and confusing  time. Another point is that sexuality changes, people change, usually not awfully too much but they do happen. That is why you'll met a lesbian and then ten years later she has a husband and two kids, I've seen it happen; or even the reverse.

For some bizarre reason, hormone therapy for a child that is 'transgender' is okay but gay conversion is immoral. To me they are both in the same ballpark and both must be treated as equally moral or immoral. Either both are illegal for persons under 18 years of age, or they are both legal.

Also I said this: 

I did not state in any case that conversion therapy is harmful or harmless to a child, merely stating that the government has no right to intervene in any situation that does not cause harm to a child. If it were harmless to a child, then a family would have all rights to do so as long as it follows the child's will. 

It is not my personal belief that it is even an option to consider but that doesn't mean I would force a family or individuals to or not to choose whether their child or themselves goes through hormone therapy or gay conversion. If sexual rights and freedoms do exist then it is up to their own discretion how to live their lives.

Sorry, I didn't realize we were talking about baby Tarzan here! Of course how you feel about your sexuality is dependent first and foremost on your community. We are not born with preconceived notions about sexuality, we're born with sexual instincts. Homosexuality is common in thousands of animal species. You don't see gay penguins having high suicide rates. That uncomfortable feeling about sexuality is a product of human society.

Hormone therapy has absolutely nothing to do with this pseudo-science. Transgender people undergo hormone therapy to change their appearance and body shape. If anything, hormone therapy is even further proof that sexuality and even gender identity CANNOT be changed with 'treatment'. 

Conversion 'therapy' is harmful. It has been proven conclusively to be ineffective and harmful. There is a major scientific consensus about that fact. I would advise you to read the finds of studies into conversion therapy or even the opinions of medical organizations of it. 

[Spike 12,049]

50 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

Sorry, I didn't realize we were talking about baby Tarzan here! Of course how you feel about your sexuality is dependent first and foremost on your community. We are not born with preconceived notions about sexuality, we're born with sexual instincts. Homosexuality is common in thousands of animal species. You don't see gay penguins having high suicide rates. That uncomfortable feeling about sexuality is a product of human society.

Hormone therapy has absolutely nothing to do with this pseudo-science. Transgender people undergo hormone therapy to change their appearance and body shape. If anything, hormone therapy is even further proof that sexuality and even gender identity CANNOT be changed with 'treatment'. 

Conversion 'therapy' is harmful. It has been proven conclusively to be ineffective and harmful. There is a major scientific consensus about that fact. I would advise you to read the finds of studies into conversion therapy or even the opinions of medical organizations of it. 

No need to be condescending. No, you cannot say that the uncomfortable feeling is 100% born of human society. You cannot compare a gay penguin to a gay human,  humans are a more complex than penguins. Not many animals even commit suicide, I don't think any intentionally do besides the carpenter ant.

In the book Sexual Fluidity the author nots dozens of homosexuals over a period of a decade that have engaged in heterosexual behaviour and even have even ended married with children. NO, human sexuality isn't set in stone, it isn't clearly defined and strictly doesn't fall into a convenient labels like you said. 

I do not agree that a child can be subjected to hormone treatment and I find it immoral to do so, just like I find gay conversion to be immoral (which for some reason you believe me to be an advocate of). A child isn't aware enough to actually understand the ramifications of transgenderism, nor can they possibly grasp the intricacies of human sexuality. Therapy to understand their situation is far more beneficial than hormone therapy. Because humans change, an eight year-old that wants to be a girl may not feel the same within a decade. 

That being said it is currently legal and a consenting adult is more than free to undergo conversion therapy, as America is a free nation and they have the sexual freedom to do so. It is not my right to tell them they cannot, I can suggest alternatives but I won't force anything on anyone.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

7 hours ago, Spike said:

No need to be condescending. No, you cannot say that the uncomfortable feeling is 100% born of human society. You cannot compare a gay penguin to a gay human,  humans are a more complex than penguins. Not many animals even commit suicide, I don't think any intentionally do besides the carpenter ant.

In the book Sexual Fluidity the author nots dozens of homosexuals over a period of a decade that have engaged in heterosexual behaviour and even have even ended married with children. NO, human sexuality isn't set in stone, it isn't clearly defined and strictly doesn't fall into a convenient labels like you said. 

I do not agree that a child can be subjected to hormone treatment and I find it immoral to do so, just like I find gay conversion to be immoral (which for some reason you believe me to be an advocate of). A child isn't aware enough to actually understand the ramifications of transgenderism, nor can they possibly grasp the intricacies of human sexuality. Therapy to understand their situation is far more beneficial than hormone therapy. Because humans change, an eight year-old that wants to be a girl may not feel the same within a decade. 

That being said it is currently legal and a consenting adult is more than free to undergo conversion therapy, as America is a free nation and they have the sexual freedom to do so. It is not my right to tell them they cannot, I can suggest alternatives but I won't force anything on anyone.

Sheesh, it was a joke.

This is off topic but many animals commit suicide including micro-organisms. Penguins commit suicide when they are depressed. They walk away from the sea alone into the ice-desert where they are bound to starve to death. Can't remember what animal (dolphin iirc) can actually will their self to die when they want to commit suicide.

Anyway, penguin suicide was mostly a joke but what I meant that even in animals with complex communities sexual orientation is never an issue. Only in human societies.

Of course human sexuality is fluid. That's scientifically proven. But even more scientifically certain is that no conversion therapy we have even tried has managed to affect it even hormone therapy, which was my point.

Hormone therapy for underage children is a whole different debate that has absolutely nothing to do with conversion therapy. Conversion therapy is proven to harm. If you're above 18 and you wish to harm yourself, you're free to do so. But underage children cannot give consent to be harmed. 

Up until last week it was legal in Lebanon to rape a woman as long as you marry her afterwards. Legal does not equal moral or right.

I don't know nearly enough about gender dysphoria to debate this but I trust/hope that decisions on hormone therapy are not take lightly. But on any the difference is that hormone therapy actually works and achieves its desired purpose.

 

[Captain Ahmed 528]

On 30/11/2016 at 4:42 PM, Fulham Broadway said:

Almost 1 in 10 fans would stop watching their team if a player said they were gay

A survey of 4000 football fans carried out for BBC Radio 4’s Afternoon Edition sheds light on the attitudes that persist within football.

82 percent of football fans said they would be comfortable with a gay player on a team, but 9% of football fans were uncomfortable.

The last taboo in football

Anyone here have an opinion on it ?

Robbie Rogers one of the disciples of Klinsmann.Declared openly his homosexuality in 2013.Many  persons can't stop talking about his sexuality and focus on the fact that he's a imposing left back

[Fulham Broadway 16,952]

35 minutes ago, Captain Ahmed said:

Robbie Rogers one of the disciples of Klinsmann.Declared openly his homosexuality in 2013.Many  persons can't stop talking about his sexuality and focus on the fact that he's a imposing left back

That's it though isn't it - the more that come out the more normal it would seem.

I'm old enough to remember when there were two black players in the top English league

[Fulham Broadway 16,952]

1 hour ago, CHOULO19 said:

 

Up until last week it was legal in Lebanon to rape a woman as long as you marry her afterwards.

 

What the  fuck ? Sounds like some medieval hell hole

[kmk108 1,186]

9 hours ago, Spike said:

No need to be condescending. No, you cannot say that the uncomfortable feeling is 100% born of human society. You cannot compare a gay penguin to a gay human,  humans are a more complex than penguins. Not many animals even commit suicide, I don't think any intentionally do besides the carpenter ant.

In the book Sexual Fluidity the author nots dozens of homosexuals over a period of a decade that have engaged in heterosexual behaviour and even have even ended married with children. NO, human sexuality isn't set in stone, it isn't clearly defined and strictly doesn't fall into a convenient labels like you said. 

I do not agree that a child can be subjected to hormone treatment and I find it immoral to do so, just like I find gay conversion to be immoral (which for some reason you believe me to be an advocate of). A child isn't aware enough to actually understand the ramifications of transgenderism, nor can they possibly grasp the intricacies of human sexuality. Therapy to understand their situation is far more beneficial than hormone therapy. Because humans change, an eight year-old that wants to be a girl may not feel the same within a decade. 

That being said it is currently legal and a consenting adult is more than free to undergo conversion therapy, as America is a free nation and they have the sexual freedom to do so. It is not my right to tell them they cannot, I can suggest alternatives but I won't force anything on anyone.

My sister is one. She was in a long-term lesbian relationship, but now is married to a man and has a child. For me, that doesn't say that she was lesbian and now is straight. It tells me that she's bisexual. She didn't convert, she is just attracted to someone regardless of the sex of the person.

[Fernando 6,491]

Was talking to some friend about Israel bombing Damascus because of chemical weapons who's well verses in international stuff. 

He mentioned how in Syria Saddam Hussein hid their weapon of mass destruction before USA got to Iraq. Not only that, many other nations have hidden weapons in that country. 

So after seeing that Israel strike a certain target in Damascus to stop Hamas from getting weapons, this things now makes sense....I thought that it was all a conspiracy theory but it seems it was for real. 

Now if Damascus got a lot of weapons underground, something will happen. Either enemies come and get it all or as my friend mentioned Israel can put down a lot of dirty bombs in Damascus thus making that whole area virtually inhabitable for a thousand years. 

I got shock at this because the bible mentioned how Damascus will cease to be a city, a ruinous heap. So if this events plays out, another bible prophecy will be fulfilled. But sadly a lot of people will die.....So if this is coming to pass as prophesied in the bible, people need to move before this happens. 

[kmk108 1,186]

24 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Was talking to some friend about Israel bombing Damascus because of chemical weapons who's well verses in international stuff. 

He mentioned how in Syria Saddam Hussein hid their weapon of mass destruction before USA got to Iraq. Not only that, many other nations have hidden weapons in that country. 

So after seeing that Israel strike a certain target in Damascus to stop Hamas from getting weapons, this things now makes sense....I thought that it was all a conspiracy theory but it seems it was for real. 

Now if Damascus got a lot of weapons underground, something will happen. Either enemies come and get it all or as my friend mentioned Israel can put down a lot of dirty bombs in Damascus thus making that whole area virtually inhabitable for a thousand years. 

I got shock at this because the bible mentioned how Damascus will cease to be a city, a ruinous heap. So if this events plays out, another bible prophecy will be fulfilled. But sadly a lot of people will die.....So if this is coming to pass as prophesied in the bible, people need to move before this happens. 

Either I've been under a rock the last few days or the American media is not reporting on this at all.

[Fernando 6,491]

9 minutes ago, kmk108 said:

Either I've been under a rock the last few days or the American media is not reporting on this at all.

Liberman: Israel stopped Hezbollah from getting chemical weapons

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/221465

 

Lieberman confirms Israel’s strike in Syria thwarted chemical weapons transfer to Hezbollah

http://beholdisrael.org/news-israel/news/lieberman-confirms-israel’s-strike-syria-thwarted-chemical-weapons-transfer

 

 

This guy is well versed in such things and gave an update on this a couple of days ago. Of course like me he's into old school prophecy. Some people believe in Nostradamus, and i have no problem, but we are looking at the prophecy in the bible to see if it does comes true. 

 

[CHOULO19 24,332]

8 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

What the  fuck ? Sounds like some medieval hell hole

Try 20th century France.

Our constitution was written by the French when they colonized us after the first world war based on their own constitution at the time and it has all sorts of weird laws that no one has bothered removing since.

This one is originally based on the bible so the Church here has been fighting for some time against having it removed even though the cases where it has been actually used are very rare.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

7 hours ago, kmk108 said:

Either I've been under a rock the last few days or the American media is not reporting on this at all.

No, no. You're fine. It's just that Fernando gets his news from a parallel dream universe of the extreme right.

The strike actually targeted medium range missiles that were being delivered from Iran on their way to Hezbollah. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,952]

2 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

Try 20th century France.

Our constitution was written by the French when they colonized us after the first world war based on their own constitution at the time and it has all sorts of weird laws that no one has bothered removing since.

This one is originally based on the bible so the Church here has been fighting for some time against having it removed even though the cases where it has been actually used are very rare.

Ah yes just reading up on it now.

Islamic 'scholars' have tried to keep the ridiculous laws including rape being legal in marriage and 'honor' killings

As far as domestic violence, the law offers no protection to women.

"If a woman in Lebanon is beaten or humiliated at home, there is nothing she can legally do about it,"

"The husband has to break her neck, arm or leg, for her to be able to claim injury or damage, as you would for any car accident,"

Many women who do turn to the police become the object of ridicule by officers who pat them on the cheek and suggest they deal with their problems "at home".

Rana Moussaoui -Sociologist