Politics & Stuff

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

14 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

Even in Lebanon, basically a failed state, we have 'free' higher education (about $200 per year iirc)

 

@Sir Mikel OBE the question about free colleges goes down to whether or not you see higher education as a luxury or a right and necessity. Most of the world views it as the latter and I think if you are concerned about the advancement of your nation and communities you have to see it that way as well.

The argument about your tax money is a valid concern, but honestly lacks perspective. More than half of your tax money goes to imperialistic wars, billions go into 'corporate welfare', not to mention foreign 'aid' to some of the most hideous regimes on the planet. In worrying about where your tax money, you might want to stat there...

 

I think the advancement of our nation won't negatively be impacted if Chad or Thad can't go to their university of choice for completely free, but I guess it depends on what true advancement  consists of. 

 

You are 100% true though. My tax dollars go towards nations and wars I don't agree with it The guise is that it is done under the pretense of at least serving a common use for everyone.  Our military supposedly kills poor people worldwide for all of our use. A corporation too big to fail isn't allowed to fail for our use, our horrible allies are given aid for being all of our allies.  It isn't the same sell with raising taxes to pay for free secondary education.

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

1 hour ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

Isn't it very hard to go to University in Europe though? Like i know in Germany they separate the University and trade school kids very early in life. A teacher deems you slow and that door is already closed.....

In Belgium, you always get to try (if you finished high school at a certain level. Obviously a guy trained to be a plumber can't start a master in mathematics), you even get a second chance. After you fucked up twice you either go to work or pay much more. Some of the most popular masters have entrance exams so there aren't 2.000 doctors or physiotherapists graduating every year for example. 

At least that's how I think it is now, it used to be more lenient when I was still in college. 

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

11 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

 

I think the advancement of our nation won't negatively be impacted if Chad or Thad can't go to their university of choice for completely free, but I guess it depends on what true advancement  consists of. 

 

 

The advancement of every nation is directly impacted by the level of education and the number of people able to get a higher degree. It's one of the more important factors of growth...

[Fernando 6,586]

3 hours ago, johnnythefirst said:

 

Deliberately targeting kids and still they pretend they have some kind of message. Sick fucking bastards. I'm not religious, but I hope for these guy's sakes there is an afterlife, so they can suffer in some sort of anal raping devil hell for the rest of time. 

This why Evolution doesn't make sense to me.

Those who believe in evolution it shouldn't matter to them about morale right. Morality comes from a god, in which they don't believe.

With Evolution you just live and die. No good or bad matters, because you go back to nothing.

Now if there is a god, then your accountable to him.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

9 minutes ago, johnnythefirst said:

The advancement of every nation is directly impacted by the level of education and the number of people able to get a higher degree. It's one of the more important factors of growth...

Even then isn't that the exact same case now. Nobody who really wants a degree isn't saying "Well, this isn't free so I just won't do it". Thats a big reason why we have issues with student loans. Kids feel they are entitled to go to the 40k a year school, then spit fire when they have to pay back what they borrowed.

 

When I graduated in 2007 I would have loved to go to USC or another school with people who looked like me, but i knew I would have to pay it back so I chose more wisely. Why is that too much to ask of students now?

 

 

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

2 minutes ago, Fernando said:

This why Evolution doesn't make sense to me.

Those who believe in evolution it shouldn't matter to them about morale right. Morality comes from a god, in which they don't believe.

With Evolution you just live and die. No good or bad matters, because you go back to nothing.

Now if there is a god, then your accountable to him.

Why should morality come from a god? Maybe it just comes from not wanting to be a violent idiot and from treating others like you want to be treated yourself.
The fact you think people are only being good because they fear eternal punishment in the afterlife, doesn't speak for your image of humanity. 
 

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

24 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

Even then isn't that the exact same case now. Nobody who really wants a degree isn't saying "Well, this isn't free so I just won't do it". Thats a big reason why we have issues with student loans. Kids feel they are entitled to go to the 40k a year school, then spit fire when they have to pay back what they borrowed.

 

When I graduated in 2007 I would have loved to go to USC or another school with people who looked like me, but i knew I would have to pay it back so I chose more wisely. Why is that too much to ask of students now?

 

 

The point is that the more expensive you make it, the more kids will decide on not going. I didn't know what to do with my life when I was 17 years old. I decided to go to college and it turned out very well. If it had cost me 50 grand, I might not have done it. The whole point is that there shouldn't be 40k schools. 

[manpe 10,861]

37 minutes ago, Fernando said:

This why Evolution doesn't make sense to me.

Those who believe in evolution it shouldn't matter to them about morale right. Morality comes from a god, in which they don't believe.

With Evolution you just live and die. No good or bad matters, because you go back to nothing.

Now if there is a god, then your accountable to him.

Totally wrong. This sounds like some nonsense you might hear in a church. Morality isn't exclusively tied to religion, never was and never will be. You cannot believe that before 2016 years ago all people were sociopaths until some guy told them it was wrong. Morality comes from a conscious living being's ability to feel and convey emotions. For most normal people doing something bad to another human makes them feel bad, they feel it is wrong and therefore don't do it. This applies even to some other animals, and I doubt they know the first thing about god. You should look into human psychology more, unless you believe that all our thoughts and actions are determined by some higher being, in which case it would be pointless discussing it with you. Evolution beats creationism hands down, it's not even a contest.

[Yeboii 1,844]

9 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

No it doesn't. Or at least it shouldn't. Basic healthcare, money out of politics and free education, the things you are calling Sanders extreme left wing for, are objectively good things and considered by most of the globe to be basic citizens rights. It shouldn't depend on your political views whether or not you want to stop thousands of people from dying because they can't afford treatment...

Maybe it shouldn't, but it does. Money matters most, and to do all this you speak of you need money. Its easy to say "tax the rich! (Who are the ones offering us our jobs in the first place)". The United States are losing big companies and big tax payers to overseas countries because they don't want to pay such a high tax. Of course you can say "they shouldn't leave! they have a moral obligation to stay... etc....", but they are leaving and that's how the world works.

I really don't want to go in depth to politics and the costs of giving everyone everything. I can say that I live in one of these countries that Sanders says are so great because of their "socialism", and I can also tell you that it fucking sucks and makes it very hard to really accomplish your goals. 

Margaret Thatcher, the iron lady
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They (socialists) always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them".

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

1 minute ago, Yeboii said:

Maybe it shouldn't, but it does. Money matters most, and to do all this you speak of you need money. Its easy to say "tax the rich! (Who are the ones offering us our jobs in the first place)". The United States are losing big companies and big tax payers to overseas countries because they don't want to pay such a high tax. Of course you can say "they shouldn't leave! they have a moral obligation to stay... etc....", but they are leaving and that's how the world works.

 

Our biggest companies (not only in the US but in Europe as well) have been getting ridiculous tax cuts for ages and yet all of them are still moving their factories to Asia. What does that tell you? Should we all start working for 30 cents an hour as well now? 

[Yeboii 1,844]

6 minutes ago, johnnythefirst said:

The point is that the more expensive you make it, the more kids will decide on not going. I didn't know what to do with my life when I was 17 years old. I decided to go to college and it turned out very well. If it had cost me 50 grand, I might not have done it. The whole point is that there shouldn't be 40k schools. 

How much do you think it costs to keep huge schools going, with research with the best people around in their respective fields (imagine the payments they want), the best teachers (imagine what they also want), other staff, huge buildings, grants to promising and exceptional students and much more?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

1 minute ago, Yeboii said:

How much do you think it costs to keep huge schools going, with research with the best people around in their respective fields (imagine the payments they want), the best teachers (imagine what they also want), other staff, huge buildings, grants to promising and exceptional students and much more?

A small fraction of the US's military budget and less than what the corporations get in tax cuts right before they go hire 9 year olds in China... 

[Yeboii 1,844]

2 minutes ago, johnnythefirst said:

Our biggest companies (not only in the US but in Europe as well) have been getting ridiculous tax cuts for ages and yet all of them are still moving their factories to Asia. What does that tell you? Should we all start working for 30 cents an hour as well now? 

I can only tell you that in my country, which has been the "basic healthcare, free education" type for a very long time, the companies are having a hard time getting people to work in their factories, since everyone has this or that degree and consider themselves to be above working in a factory. Don't know the problem in other countries. You would be surprised how many factories are in America and Europe though.

No one is saying that we should work for 30 cents an hour. Also, the goal for every company is to make as much money as possible, so if they see that they make more money by moving their factories to Asia (but keep everything else in America/Europe, along with providing a lot of people jobs), can you really blame them?

Tax cuts are of no need when the tax is low enough in the first place. Companies get tax cuts because they keep the economy going and provide citizens with jobs.

[Yeboii 1,844]

4 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

A small fraction of the US's military budget and less than what the corporations get in tax cuts right before they go hire 9 year olds in China... 

hahahhaa what are you on about? We are talking about schools! Not the military budget of one nation (I was talking schools worldwide), corporations nor China.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

1 minute ago, Yeboii said:

hahahhaa what are you on about? We are talking about schools! Not the military budget of one nation (I was talking schools worldwide), corporations nor China.

And I was talking about people on the right only bringing up costs when it comes to services to the actual communities when NO ONE ever asks about where the funding for wars and tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% can come from. 

Where can you get money for schools? From cutting military spending and closing tax loop wholes. 

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

21 minutes ago, Yeboii said:

How much do you think it costs to keep huge schools going, with research with the best people around in their respective fields (imagine the payments they want), the best teachers (imagine what they also want), other staff, huge buildings, grants to promising and exceptional students and much more?

Yeah, maybe we should close all these schools and invest in a couple of extra million dollar bombs to drop on the heads of random brown people. 

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

17 minutes ago, Yeboii said:

 

Tax cuts are of no need when the tax is low enough in the first place. Companies get tax cuts because they keep the economy going and provide citizens with jobs.

No they get tax cuts because they slip the right people some dough.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

1 hour ago, johnnythefirst said:

The point is that the more expensive you make it, the more kids will decide on not going. I didn't know what to do with my life when I was 17 years old. I decided to go to college and it turned out very well. If it had cost me 50 grand, I might not have done it. The whole point is that there shouldn't be 40k schools. 

 

Or you would have chose a school much cheaper, like the vast majority of people do.

 

There is a market for people looking to spend that much in order to say they went to Harvard,NYU, or Berkeley. As long as there is a market for it, people will pay for it. Nobody has an inherent right to go to an expensive school.

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

23 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

 

Or you would have chose a school much cheaper, like the vast majority of people do.

 

 

 

Yes, and then you get a lesser education because you don't have the money, which causes inequality to grow generation after generation. 

My whole point, that you seem to ignore every time, is that there SHOULDN'T be expensive schools and that education should be free or as cheap as possible. The smarter the voters get, the less stupid the politicians. Maybe that's why they won't tackle the problem.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

1 hour ago, Yeboii said:

I can only tell you that in my country, which has been the "basic healthcare, free education" type for a very long time, the companies are having a hard time getting people to work in their factories, since everyone has this or that degree and consider themselves to be above working in a factory. Don't know the problem in other countries. You would be surprised how many factories are in America and Europe though.

No one is saying that we should work for 30 cents an hour. Also, the goal for every company is to make as much money as possible, so if they see that they make more money by moving their factories to Asia (but keep everything else in America/Europe, along with providing a lot of people jobs), can you really blame them?

Tax cuts are of no need when the tax is low enough in the first place. Companies get tax cuts because they keep the economy going and provide citizens with jobs.

 

The problem we have in America is a bunch of people have degrees, and there are simply no jobs for them. There are people I graduated college with working at Starbucks because there are simply no jobs for them. America doesn't need everybody with a degree, we simply don't have the jobs to hold them. We need people doing trades, which is where people who are considered losers are pushed into now. 

 

That is a large part of the Sanders appeal with his(mostly white) base. They like to think of the good days of the new deal where factory jobs were plentiful, and you raise a family on a single income. This ignores the fact that these jobs were only plentiful because the rest of the world was in the dumps, and because at home minorities and women were kept out of these good high paying jobs in the workforce.  It is a view of America steeped in white privilege. Now we have to compete in a global marketplace and people don't want to. They don't want to have to compete with Raj in India, they don't want Raj coming to America on an H1B to take their jobs. They want to be taken care of by their government. Screw the higher standards of living this globalization has given people not only across the world, but at home this century.